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Post by Jomo on Aug 30, 2022 19:54:10 GMT -5
Oddly I feel more confident in KG than I do in Toney. It's a tough sport...but as of now I feel Toney could get hurt stepping out of bed in the morning...it's frustrating because you can see the potential. Who is this Toney guy of whom you speak?
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Post by myronguyton29 on Aug 30, 2022 20:18:34 GMT -5
KG is the new EE here... Always have to have one. Unfortunately. Much more costly though. [probably not saying much but I think most would actually prefer EE right now over KG if they had a choice!!
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Post by cdngfan on Aug 30, 2022 20:55:59 GMT -5
Just according to sportstrac. If he’s cut today (post June 1st), it’s $21 million dead cap hit today ($0 savings relative to his playing cap hit), and $10.2 mill in 23). If he’s released after June 1st next year there’s a $7.9 hit in 2023 ($13.5 savings compared to keeping him), and a $6.8 hit in 2024. All this to say that cutting him today provides more of a “take that!” emotional benefit than anything strategic. He may be better on the field this year than he was last year or this pre season. It’s a lot better for us if he turns into something better than he is right now. The cost of finding out is pretty low. . We don't need "emotional benefits". That is what losing organizations do. Let's see what happens. Let's see if he has any pride in his what he does for a living. That’s exactly right. The mob is into this “cut his ass!!” mode. But other than some lame “it shows we don’t start the beat players” strawman or “we’re taking a roster spot away from a UDFA”, I can’t find the material logic in cutting him now. It’s not a significant investment to see if he can contribute this year. The money is spent. Might as well see if it turns into something.
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Post by cdngfan on Aug 30, 2022 21:00:49 GMT -5
Oddly I feel more confident in KG than I do in Toney. It's a tough sport...but as of now I feel Toney could get hurt stepping out of bed in the morning...it's frustrating because you can see the potential. I was going to post the same thing. Toney literally can’t get on the field for more than 5 mins. Even though KT seems a for more talented, it seems like we’ll get more production out of KG. Which is really sad.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 30, 2022 21:10:25 GMT -5
Oddly I feel more confident in KG than I do in Toney. It's a tough sport...but as of now I feel Toney could get hurt stepping out of bed in the morning...it's frustrating because you can see the potential. Who is this Toney guy of whom you speak? Remember Andrew Toney with the 76'rs? Maybe that's who he's talking about. The kid killed the Celtics.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 30, 2022 21:40:59 GMT -5
Who is this Toney guy of whom you speak? Remember Andrew Toney with the 76'rs? Maybe that's who he's talking about. The kid killed the Celtics. Best player Charles ever played with
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 30, 2022 21:46:21 GMT -5
Remember Andrew Toney with the 76'rs? Maybe that's who he's talking about. The kid killed the Celtics. Best player Charles ever played with 80's NBA....I can talk about that all day long. Today's NBA?.....Not so much.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 30, 2022 21:57:37 GMT -5
Best player Charles ever played with 80's NBA....I can talk about that all day long. Today's NBA?.....Not so much. 80s and 90s for me. Bird to Patrick years
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 30, 2022 22:17:56 GMT -5
80's NBA....I can talk about that all day long. Today's NBA?.....Not so much. 80s and 90s for me. Bird to Patrick years For me it's Bird and Magic.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 30, 2022 22:25:51 GMT -5
80s and 90s for me. Bird to Patrick years For me it's Bird and Magic. Those were some magical years even going back to college. I really enjoyed them but for me as a Knicks fan I was mostly a spectator.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 30, 2022 22:51:38 GMT -5
For me it's Bird and Magic. Those were some magical years even going back to college. I really enjoyed them but for me as a Knicks fan I was mostly a spectator. Well I was, and still am a Celtics fan. What an awesome time that was. Those two saved the NBA.
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Post by Nite on Aug 30, 2022 22:59:24 GMT -5
Well if Mara is still around in 3023 we'll be definitely looking for a new QB in the Robot Football League (RFL) Archie Manning comes out in a few years. He'll save us if we haven't found redemption before then... Yeah but isn't he kinda old? I know I'd give it a shot if I didn't have an ACL back in 44' ....Might as wait for Eli to unretire. When I say Eli I mean Eli XXXVL
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Post by TCHOF on Aug 31, 2022 4:50:25 GMT -5
OK...Just a theory. Everyone is all over Kenny Golladay for having a poor season in 2021. But KG has never been a guy who creates separation. He's a guy who makes contested catches....which is a great quality in the NFL. Well DJ clearly has been coached to avoid turnovers since his rookie year. KG not open? Don't throw it to him. But in 2022 it seems he'll be coached to make those throws. My "hope" is that he will become comfortable with KG amid coverage. So my conclusion is that KG will be a great weapon for us this year. Am I rationalizing? Is this wishful thinking? Probably, but it helps me sleep at night, What’s a “big season” for KG at this point?
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Post by GameTime on Aug 31, 2022 4:55:38 GMT -5
OK...Just a theory. Everyone is all over Kenny Golladay for having a poor season in 2021. But KG has never been a guy who creates separation. He's a guy who makes contested catches....which is a great quality in the NFL. Well DJ clearly has been coached to avoid turnovers since his rookie year. KG not open? Don't throw it to him. But in 2022 it seems he'll be coached to make those throws. My "hope" is that he will become comfortable with KG amid coverage. So my conclusion is that KG will be a great weapon for us this year. Am I rationalizing? Is this wishful thinking? Probably, but it helps me sleep at night, What’s a “big season” for KG at this point? he's had one season with the MYGs and it was a shit show beyond his control. He of course has some blame.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 31, 2022 4:59:44 GMT -5
Some on here are acting like KG has spent 3 years in the NYGs with no production and he missed 80% of the games. The media seems to project that as well
He's has been on the NYGs for ONE season. A season where Joe Judge, his staff and most of the roster shit the ****ing bed!!
He was in 14 games, many with with Fromm and/or Glenonn as the QB.
Yes he can have a big year. Am I down on him a little? Of course I am but thats the fan in me sick of the shitty team overall.
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Post by TEM on Aug 31, 2022 5:11:03 GMT -5
There are on 2 stats that matter for a WR. The rest are mostly dependent on the QB.
Targets as a ratio to snap count compared to the rest to the receivers. (shows he gets open)
Reception percentage compared to the QBs completion percentage. Must be within 3 points if under or over. If it is lower than 3 points. It shows bad hands or bad route running.
Passing is a timing thing. It requires a crisp route to be ran.
Last season with Jones throwing to him. KG had a 61% reception percentage. Jones Had a 64% completion percentage.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 31, 2022 5:17:53 GMT -5
There are on 2 stats that matter for a WR. The rest are mostly dependent on the QB. Targets as a ratio to snap count compared to the rest to the receivers. (shows he gets open) Reception percentage compared to the QBs completion percentage. Must be within 3 points if under or over. If it is lower than 3 points. It shows bad hands or bad route running. Passing is a timing thing. It requires a crisp route to be ran. what about where a receiver is in the progression of a play? Does the first read get the most potential passes to them?
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Post by TEM on Aug 31, 2022 5:20:30 GMT -5
There are on 2 stats that matter for a WR. The rest are mostly dependent on the QB. Targets as a ratio to snap count compared to the rest to the receivers. (shows he gets open) Reception percentage compared to the QBs completion percentage. Must be within 3 points if under or over. If it is lower than 3 points. It shows bad hands or bad route running. Passing is a timing thing. It requires a crisp route to be ran. what about where a receiver is in the progression of a play? Does the first read get the most potential passes to them? If open yes. Not every play has the #1 as the first read.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 31, 2022 7:04:29 GMT -5
Those were some magical years even going back to college. I really enjoyed them but for me as a Knicks fan I was mostly a spectator. Well I was, and still am a Celtics fan. What an awesome time that was. Those two saved the NBA. I hated Bird back then but now I have tremendous respect for him. He was amazing.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 31, 2022 8:41:32 GMT -5
In the NFL, if you're covered one on one....you're open.I think DJ needs to learn this with KG. Not true The window is smaller, but receivers do get open all the time. Don't compare the NFL to the air raids and spreads of college, we create separation by route running or play calling all the time. Zone and man....watch a little more film and you will see open receivers in the NFL every play, and at times, WIDE open. Golladay also had arm talent, as in a rocket arm ball being thrown to him at Detroit....Jones has at best an average arm, and the pre season games showcased that...short passes to open receivers created by a system. If Jones is going deep, he's going to the receiver open created by a play drawn up...basic to more complex, depending upon coverage. He is not forcing the ball downfield to Golladay....vbgiantsfan is spot on with his assessment. If Jones is throwing into a covered receiver he is not reading the field correctly. Golladay is NOT the type of receiver for Jones, nor this coaching staff. He might help in the red zone, deep in the red zone...but Jones will continue to be a system QB until those vertical reads open themselves up, and he recognizes the coverage...something I personally believe he will not be able to do, and why we will have a new QB next year, one with more arm talent. Thank you for explaining why Golladay is a bad system fit here (FWIW the air raid is a mutation of the Erheart/Perkins in that its the same numbers/option route based principles,which we will be using here ) Golladay is best in a WCO system where the routes are all based on timing and are usually rigid This offense blends a lot of the option route patterns along with some modern WCO schemes (the mesh type things that put defenders in conflict on who to take while the WRs are also choosing what patterns to run to open windows) Which is why Daboll has loaded up on quick twitch shifty human joystick types for the most part (even Sills has a enough quick twitch to be precise and why he might actually thrive this year being a former qb he will know where to be ) This core is in transition for sure... Start looking in college for a bigger guy that has some quick twitch and post catch ability Ala Nicks (Gabriel Davis is the type ...4th rounder that won't blow people away in tbe 40 because it will take him 10 to 20 yards to get to speed but have breakaway 2nd gear type speed and great short shuttle/3 cone )
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Post by jmike on Aug 31, 2022 8:46:30 GMT -5
Not true The window is smaller, but receivers do get open all the time. Don't compare the NFL to the air raids and spreads of college, we create separation by route running or play calling all the time. Zone and man....watch a little more film and you will see open receivers in the NFL every play, and at times, WIDE open. Golladay also had arm talent, as in a rocket arm ball being thrown to him at Detroit....Jones has at best an average arm, and the pre season games showcased that...short passes to open receivers created by a system. If Jones is going deep, he's going to the receiver open created by a play drawn up...basic to more complex, depending upon coverage. He is not forcing the ball downfield to Golladay....vbgiantsfan is spot on with his assessment. If Jones is throwing into a covered receiver he is not reading the field correctly. Golladay is NOT the type of receiver for Jones, nor this coaching staff. He might help in the red zone, deep in the red zone...but Jones will continue to be a system QB until those vertical reads open themselves up, and he recognizes the coverage...something I personally believe he will not be able to do, and why we will have a new QB next year, one with more arm talent. Thank you for explaining why Golladay is a bad system fit here (FWIW the air raid is a mutation of the Erheart/Perkins in that its the same numbers/option route based principles,which we will be using here ) Golladay is best in a WCO system where the routes are all based on timing and are usually rigid This offense blends a lot of the option route patterns along with some modern WCO schemes (the mesh type things that put defenders in conflict on who to take while the WRs are also choosing what patterns to run to open windows) Which is why Daboll has loaded up on quick twitch shifty human joystick types for the most part (even Sills has a enough quick twitch to be precise and why he might actually thrive this year being a former qb he will know where to be ) This core is in transition for sure... Start looking in college for a bigger guy that has some quick twitch and post catch ability Ala Nicks (Gabriel Davis is the type ...4th rounder that won't blow people away in tbe 40 because it will take him 10 to 20 yards to get to speed but have breakaway 2nd gear type speed and great short shuttle/3 cone ) If they are able to trade KG it will solve a lot of problems for the Giants and really the only way to get cap relief from his contract.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 31, 2022 9:00:23 GMT -5
Not true The window is smaller, but receivers do get open all the time. Don't compare the NFL to the air raids and spreads of college, we create separation by route running or play calling all the time. Zone and man....watch a little more film and you will see open receivers in the NFL every play, and at times, WIDE open. Golladay also had arm talent, as in a rocket arm ball being thrown to him at Detroit....Jones has at best an average arm, and the pre season games showcased that...short passes to open receivers created by a system. If Jones is going deep, he's going to the receiver open created by a play drawn up...basic to more complex, depending upon coverage. He is not forcing the ball downfield to Golladay....vbgiantsfan is spot on with his assessment. If Jones is throwing into a covered receiver he is not reading the field correctly. Golladay is NOT the type of receiver for Jones, nor this coaching staff. He might help in the red zone, deep in the red zone...but Jones will continue to be a system QB until those vertical reads open themselves up, and he recognizes the coverage...something I personally believe he will not be able to do, and why we will have a new QB next year, one with more arm talent. Thank you for explaining why Golladay is a bad system fit here (FWIW the air raid is a mutation of the Erheart/Perkins in that its the same numbers/option route based principles,which we will be using here ) Golladay is best in a WCO system where the routes are all based on timing and are usually rigid This offense blends a lot of the option route patterns along with some modern WCO schemes (the mesh type things that put defenders in conflict on who to take while the WRs are also choosing what patterns to run to open windows) Which is why Daboll has loaded up on quick twitch shifty human joystick types for the most part (even Sills has a enough quick twitch to be precise and why he might actually thrive this year being a former qb he will know where to be ) This core is in transition for sure... Start looking in college for a bigger guy that has some quick twitch and post catch ability Ala Nicks (Gabriel Davis is the type ...4th rounder that won't blow people away in tbe 40 because it will take him 10 to 20 yards to get to speed but have breakaway 2nd gear type speed and great short shuttle/3 cone ) Is it all about system though? CJ isn't a quick fast twitch guy yet he was far outplaying KG before he got hurt.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 31, 2022 9:01:39 GMT -5
Not true The window is smaller, but receivers do get open all the time. Don't compare the NFL to the air raids and spreads of college, we create separation by route running or play calling all the time. Zone and man....watch a little more film and you will see open receivers in the NFL every play, and at times, WIDE open. Golladay also had arm talent, as in a rocket arm ball being thrown to him at Detroit....Jones has at best an average arm, and the pre season games showcased that...short passes to open receivers created by a system. If Jones is going deep, he's going to the receiver open created by a play drawn up...basic to more complex, depending upon coverage. He is not forcing the ball downfield to Golladay....vbgiantsfan is spot on with his assessment. If Jones is throwing into a covered receiver he is not reading the field correctly. Golladay is NOT the type of receiver for Jones, nor this coaching staff. He might help in the red zone, deep in the red zone...but Jones will continue to be a system QB until those vertical reads open themselves up, and he recognizes the coverage...something I personally believe he will not be able to do, and why we will have a new QB next year, one with more arm talent. Thank you for explaining why Golladay is a bad system fit here (FWIW the air raid is a mutation of the Erheart/Perkins in that its the same numbers/option route based principles,which we will be using here ) Golladay is best in a WCO system where the routes are all based on timing and are usually rigid This offense blends a lot of the option route patterns along with some modern WCO schemes (the mesh type things that put defenders in conflict on who to take while the WRs are also choosing what patterns to run to open windows) Which is why Daboll has loaded up on quick twitch shifty human joystick types for the most part (even Sills has a enough quick twitch to be precise and why he might actually thrive this year being a former qb he will know where to be ) This core is in transition for sure... Start looking in college for a bigger guy that has some quick twitch and post catch ability Ala Nicks (Gabriel Davis is the type ...4th rounder that won't blow people away in tbe 40 because it will take him 10 to 20 yards to get to speed but have breakaway 2nd gear type speed and great short shuttle/3 cone ) if KG puts in the work there is no reason he cant produce for the O.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 31, 2022 9:09:11 GMT -5
Thank you for explaining why Golladay is a bad system fit here (FWIW the air raid is a mutation of the Erheart/Perkins in that its the same numbers/option route based principles,which we will be using here ) Golladay is best in a WCO system where the routes are all based on timing and are usually rigid This offense blends a lot of the option route patterns along with some modern WCO schemes (the mesh type things that put defenders in conflict on who to take while the WRs are also choosing what patterns to run to open windows) Which is why Daboll has loaded up on quick twitch shifty human joystick types for the most part (even Sills has a enough quick twitch to be precise and why he might actually thrive this year being a former qb he will know where to be ) This core is in transition for sure... Start looking in college for a bigger guy that has some quick twitch and post catch ability Ala Nicks (Gabriel Davis is the type ...4th rounder that won't blow people away in tbe 40 because it will take him 10 to 20 yards to get to speed but have breakaway 2nd gear type speed and great short shuttle/3 cone ) if KG puts in the work there is no reason he cant produce for the O. I'm sure they can figure out a way to get him some production if he puts in the work
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 31, 2022 9:10:01 GMT -5
Thank you for explaining why Golladay is a bad system fit here (FWIW the air raid is a mutation of the Erheart/Perkins in that its the same numbers/option route based principles,which we will be using here ) Golladay is best in a WCO system where the routes are all based on timing and are usually rigid This offense blends a lot of the option route patterns along with some modern WCO schemes (the mesh type things that put defenders in conflict on who to take while the WRs are also choosing what patterns to run to open windows) Which is why Daboll has loaded up on quick twitch shifty human joystick types for the most part (even Sills has a enough quick twitch to be precise and why he might actually thrive this year being a former qb he will know where to be ) This core is in transition for sure... Start looking in college for a bigger guy that has some quick twitch and post catch ability Ala Nicks (Gabriel Davis is the type ...4th rounder that won't blow people away in tbe 40 because it will take him 10 to 20 yards to get to speed but have breakaway 2nd gear type speed and great short shuttle/3 cone ) If they are able to trade KG it will solve a lot of problems for the Giants and really the only way to get cap relief from his contract. Better off hoping he has a bounce back year somehow this year... We could get a mid round pick back next year
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 31, 2022 9:11:37 GMT -5
OK...Just a theory. Everyone is all over Kenny Golladay for having a poor season in 2021. But KG has never been a guy who creates separation. He's a guy who makes contested catches....which is a great quality in the NFL. Well DJ clearly has been coached to avoid turnovers since his rookie year. KG not open? Don't throw it to him. But in 2022 it seems he'll be coached to make those throws. My "hope" is that he will become comfortable with KG amid coverage. So my conclusion is that KG will be a great weapon for us this year. Am I rationalizing? Is this wishful thinking? Probably, but it helps me sleep at night, What’s a “big season” for KG at this point? I guess it depends on the players around him, especially the quality of play at QB. But I would suggest he would be our leading receiver and maybe catch around 70 balls for 900-1100 yards.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 31, 2022 9:14:11 GMT -5
What’s a “big season” for KG at this point? I guess it depends on the players around him, especially the quality of play at QB. But I would suggest he would be our leading receiver and maybe catch around 70 balls for 900-1100 yards. That would get us back a 3rd in 2023
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Post by jmike on Aug 31, 2022 9:33:29 GMT -5
If they are able to trade KG it will solve a lot of problems for the Giants and really the only way to get cap relief from his contract. Better off hoping he has a bounce back year somehow this year... We could get a mid round pick back next year I don't find that likely. He hasn't been moving well since early in camp. Appears to be having balance issues. Which will effect his ability to track the ball in the air and win contested catches. He already lacks the ability to create traditional separation, if he isn't able to win contested balls on top of that; I just don't see what he can do for this team. Add in his insanely low catch rate on targets; maybe they should get him in the weight room and convert him to tackle. Or maybe see if he can punt. Get something out of him for his salary, he just doesn't function as a WR anymore.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 31, 2022 9:34:03 GMT -5
I guess it depends on the players around him, especially the quality of play at QB. But I would suggest he would be our leading receiver and maybe catch around 70 balls for 900-1100 yards. That would get us back a 3rd in 2023 He'll either stay a Giant or get released. His contract prevents his trade.
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Post by jmike on Aug 31, 2022 9:35:13 GMT -5
I guess it depends on the players around him, especially the quality of play at QB. But I would suggest he would be our leading receiver and maybe catch around 70 balls for 900-1100 yards. That would get us back a 3rd in 2023 If they could trade him now for a jelly doughnut; I'd take that deal just to get that money off the books and call JS a genius for getting such a great deal.
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