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Post by TheAussieGiant on Sept 2, 2022 6:33:46 GMT -5
With all these cuts and dead cap the giants are being forced to eat this year, I can’t for the life of me think what Gettlemans plan was.
Doesn’t seem like he had any possible way of retaining these players he was bringing in even if they did work out.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 2, 2022 6:35:45 GMT -5
With all these cuts and dead cap the giants are being forced to eat this year, I can’t for the life of me think what Gettlemans plan was. Doesn’t seem like he had any possible way of retaining these players he was bringing in even if they did work out. after each major move he made failed to try right the Giants' ship things just unraveled more and more.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 6:50:40 GMT -5
wasn't that the case last year? I honestly don't remember complaining that much about the middle of the field on Defense last year. He can probably do better in the passing game and pass rushing game than blake anyway. I could be totally wrong and prob am. Either way, tae has played well, but should not be a guy we rely on. CB, and LB might be a big issue, no scratch that, will be a big issue on defense this season. Tae wasn't terrible We have 2 other guys that can rotate in next to him Tae wasn't good either.. Hope he progresses and plays faster this year..
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 2, 2022 6:57:58 GMT -5
With all these cuts and dead cap the giants are being forced to eat this year, I can’t for the life of me think what Gettlemans plan was. Doesn’t seem like he had any possible way of retaining these players he was bringing in even if they did work out. This is the issue, not just in the NFL, with the “you need to win this year” message that owners give. If the line stayed healthy and outperformed like Getty hopes it would, if Golladay and Rudolph and the other FAs outplayed expectations, if they got lucky with injuries, maybe he wins 9 games and competes for a playoff spot. Was it probable or likely? Of course not. But they told him to fight for his life or die. So he did. If the improbable happened then he can sit down in front of John and ask for 3 years, knowing he needs two to clean up his mess. I like the idea of just giving a GM his contract to prove himself without the ultimatums or “win now” message. Just look at the 4 years and make a call as an owner. . I know fans hate that but there’s 10 negative things that cutting coaches every two years and giving a GMs ultimatums does. We’re living it and it’s going to take longer than 2 years to undo. This year is a write off, next year is a partial write off because youre just starting to be able to operate a team “your way”. All because of this idea that if you tell a GM he’s one more bad season from getting fired, you’re “putting the pressure on” which fans love.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 2, 2022 6:58:06 GMT -5
Tae wasn't terrible We have 2 other guys that can rotate in next to him Tae wasn't good either.. Hope he progresses and plays faster this year.. hoping Crowder progresses. he has already overachieved based on his draft and being "Mr. Irrelevant". Coming into his 3rd season.
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 2, 2022 7:11:53 GMT -5
I’m noticing a few fans adjusting their expectations down from even a week ago.
and I love that.
Not only is Schoen clearing cap, he’s clearly trying to see who these young players are with this coaching staff. Daboll is competitive and wants to win but I don’t think they fear sucking this year.
I imagine going young gives Joe and the coaching staff a better idea who they need next year, because they’re going to need a lot so if Tae or McFadden or Catilo shows they belongs in this system then the FO has one less piece they have to find. Same thing with the secondary. Same thing with his leaders.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 7:15:00 GMT -5
I’m noticing a few fans adjusting their expectations down from even a week ago. and I love that. Not only is Schoen clearing cap, he’s clearly trying to see who these young players are with this coaching staff. Daboll is competitive and wants to win but I don’t think they fear sucking this year. I imagine going young gives Joe and the coaching staff a better idea who they need next year, because they’re going to need a lot so if Tae or McFadden or Catilo shows they belongs in this system then the FO has one less piece they have to find. Same thing with the secondary. Same thing with his leaders. Just send him the link to this place.. We have all the answers they need!! The Beavers injury really sucks now..
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 2, 2022 7:24:47 GMT -5
I’m noticing a few fans adjusting their expectations down from even a week ago. and I love that. Not only is Schoen clearing cap, he’s clearly trying to see who these young players are with this coaching staff. Daboll is competitive and wants to win but I don’t think they fear sucking this year. I imagine going young gives Joe and the coaching staff a better idea who they need next year, because they’re going to need a lot so if Tae or McFadden or Catilo shows they belongs in this system then the FO has one less piece they have to find. Same thing with the secondary. Same thing with his leaders. Just send him the link to this place.. We have all the answers they need!! The Beavers injury really sucks now.. Right? Not only is he not available but it’s the type of injury where you need a couple years. Few play with confidence coming back from that.
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 2, 2022 7:32:01 GMT -5
With all these cuts and dead cap the giants are being forced to eat this year, I can’t for the life of me think what Gettlemans plan was. Doesn’t seem like he had any possible way of retaining these players he was bringing in even if they did work out. This is the issue, not just in the NFL, with the “you need to win this year” message that owners give. If the line stayed healthy and outperformed like Getty hopes it would, if Golladay and Rudolph and the other FAs outplayed expectations, if they got lucky with injuries, maybe he wins 9 games and competes for a playoff spot. Was it probable or likely? Of course not. But they told him to fight for his life or die. So he did. If the improbable happened then he can sit down in front of John and ask for 3 years, knowing he needs two to clean up his mess. I like the idea of just giving a GM his contract to prove himself without the ultimatums or “win now” message. Just look at the 4 years and make a call as an owner. . I know fans hate that but there’s 10 negative things that cutting coaches every two years and giving a GMs ultimatums does. We’re living it and it’s going to take longer than 2 years to undo. This year is a write off, next year is a partial write off because youre just starting to be able to operate a team “your way”. All because of this idea that if you tell a GM he’s one more bad season from getting fired, you’re “putting the pressure on” which fans love. And “putting the pressure” on a GM by telling him that he has one year to straighten things out usually just results in the GM making a bunch of dumb short-sighted decisions in a desperate attempt to save his own ass.
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 2, 2022 8:02:44 GMT -5
This is the issue, not just in the NFL, with the “you need to win this year” message that owners give. If the line stayed healthy and outperformed like Getty hopes it would, if Golladay and Rudolph and the other FAs outplayed expectations, if they got lucky with injuries, maybe he wins 9 games and competes for a playoff spot. Was it probable or likely? Of course not. But they told him to fight for his life or die. So he did. If the improbable happened then he can sit down in front of John and ask for 3 years, knowing he needs two to clean up his mess. I like the idea of just giving a GM his contract to prove himself without the ultimatums or “win now” message. Just look at the 4 years and make a call as an owner. . I know fans hate that but there’s 10 negative things that cutting coaches every two years and giving a GMs ultimatums does. We’re living it and it’s going to take longer than 2 years to undo. This year is a write off, next year is a partial write off because youre just starting to be able to operate a team “your way”. All because of this idea that if you tell a GM he’s one more bad season from getting fired, you’re “putting the pressure on” which fans love. And “putting the pressure” on a GM by telling him that he has one year to straighten things out usually just results in the GM making a bunch of dumb short-sighted decisions in a desperate attempt to save his own ass. In every sport. Literally. Owners aren’t always good leaders. And that’s the problem. The messaging to a GM should be “we’re going to look at momentum and talent acquisition and win-loss performance and cap management and draft pick acquisition/management and fan relations and media relations. Wins/losses isn’t enough, your last year being a good year isn’t enough. This is a complex job and the evaluation of how you’re doing isn’t limited to one area or your last year. Go out and build a team and a cap situation and an FO and draft capital and fan/media reputation that you’re proud of, and we’ll talk”.
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Tyrell
Special Teams
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Post by Tyrell on Sept 2, 2022 8:05:56 GMT -5
Im surprised if anyone is surprised by anything where we're at as a team right now, martinez was never part of the long term future as soon as we had a new regime. hes now a bit older dude with some serious injuries under his belt, who probably would have been gone after this season anyway, and we're a long way from being where we want.
I dunno, im not surprised by any move right now. those guys are looking at the bigger picture, and looking out into the future.
onward we go.
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te88
Special Teams
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Post by te88 on Sept 2, 2022 8:26:57 GMT -5
I’m noticing a few fans adjusting their expectations down from even a week ago. and I love that. Not only is Schoen clearing cap, he’s clearly trying to see who these young players are with this coaching staff. Daboll is competitive and wants to win but I don’t think they fear sucking this year. I imagine going young gives Joe and the coaching staff a better idea who they need next year, because they’re going to need a lot so if Tae or McFadden or Catilo shows they belongs in this system then the FO has one less piece they have to find. Same thing with the secondary. Same thing with his leaders. I saw this as a slash and burn job from the beginning. What Schoen is facing is monumental. On top of the roster rebuild job every GM faces, he has to create a new culture, a new way of doing things across the board…essentially a completely new football organization. Still lots of players to remove over the next couple years. We have to understand there are very few redeeming qualities about this organization and roster. If Schoen succeeds we shouldn’t recognize this team and organization by the time he is done.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 8:35:32 GMT -5
Im surprised if anyone is surprised by anything where we're at as a team right now, martinez was never part of the long term future as soon as we had a new regime. hes now a bit older dude with some serious injuries under his belt, who probably would have been gone after this season anyway, and we're a long way from being where we want. I dunno, im not surprised by any move right now. those guys are looking at the bigger picture, and looking out into the future. onward we go. I'm surprised due to Martinez and the team agreeing to take a pay cut for this season. That gave me the idea they liked him enough..
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 2, 2022 8:38:09 GMT -5
I’m noticing a few fans adjusting their expectations down from even a week ago. and I love that. Not only is Schoen clearing cap, he’s clearly trying to see who these young players are with this coaching staff. Daboll is competitive and wants to win but I don’t think they fear sucking this year. I imagine going young gives Joe and the coaching staff a better idea who they need next year, because they’re going to need a lot so if Tae or McFadden or Catilo shows they belongs in this system then the FO has one less piece they have to find. Same thing with the secondary. Same thing with his leaders. I saw this as a slash and burn job from the beginning. What Schoen is facing is monumental. On top of the roster rebuild job every GM faces, he has to create a new culture, a new way of doing things across the board…essentially a completely new football organization. Still lots of players to remove over the next couple years. We have to understand there are very few redeeming qualities about this organization and roster. If Schoen succeeds we shouldn’t recognize this team and organization by the time he is done. Same. Schoen is fixing things that haven’t been touched in the FO for 15 years. Literally. The amount of rope I’m willing to give this GM would make the average fan uncomfortable. He’s not just finding players and managing the cap. He’s rebuilding an organization that’s needs more than fresh paint and new trim.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 2, 2022 8:41:17 GMT -5
Wondering if his play had noticeably slipped in practice.... I didn't really notice him in the games There has been some talk of not a great fit for what they want to do, they really don't get much cap relief if they did it in March supposedly they would of had 2.5 mill. Think it is more mutual he wasn't gonna be on the field much probably 30% or less of the downs.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 2, 2022 8:42:38 GMT -5
Sport says we saved $3.6 mill. OTC says we would only save $171k Reporters said $3.6 mill Wish these 2 websites could figure out the correct numbers on Blake and other Giants. They also differ on KG by 4 mill. I read later we didn't save that much not sure what is fact what I saw is in March they could have saved money but now it is very little.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 2, 2022 8:48:14 GMT -5
This is what a proper rebuild looks like. There are going to be a few moves that catch us off guard. I like the fact we seem content running the young players out onto the field and letting them prove their worth. We won’t be any good in 2-3 years if the young guys don’t develop, and the best way to learn is by taking a few lumps. This what they did last time except they traded players instead of cutting, from what I understand trades keep the comp picks straight if they have some. They waited about a month into the season I remember cause I was traveling to see the game snacks got traded before. So far the only difference I see is the guys Schoen is bringing in are smarter moves trait based upside guys and others with some starts in the league and not completely ugly ones. I think the process is the pretty close to the same just smarter moves.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 2, 2022 8:48:25 GMT -5
Sport says we saved $3.6 mill. OTC says we would only save $171k Reporters said $3.6 mill Wish these 2 websites could figure out the correct numbers on Blake and other Giants. They also differ on KG by 4 mill. I read later we didn't save that much not sure what is fact what I saw is in March they could have saved money but now it is very little. Yeah it looks like OTC was right and Sportrac was wrong. I think we only saved 170k because after we didn't cut him in March his salary became guaranteed.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 2, 2022 8:54:46 GMT -5
With all these cuts and dead cap the giants are being forced to eat this year, I can’t for the life of me think what Gettlemans plan was. Doesn’t seem like he had any possible way of retaining these players he was bringing in even if they did work out. His plan was simple they went 5-3 the last 8 of 2020, they wanted to go for it thought the team was trending up. They were wrong, if the plan worked as they planned and they won 9- or 10 games this year they play with the same team 0 free agency just the picks he got from the trade, then they would be back in good cap shape in 2023 that was always the plan. This isn't cap hell like 2017 2 years of cutting away over paid players, they were always gonna be good in 2023 think Schoen might have made it better, as Schoen said they have some building blocks something they didn't have many of in 2017. Teams in a better place smarter top brass and coaching is where it starts.
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Post by lasion2 on Sept 2, 2022 8:58:00 GMT -5
I predict that on opening day 2024 the only guys from this years roster that will still be on the team are the draft class, AT, Dex, Ojulari and McKinney. It’s a total roster flip. I won’t be surprised by any cuts or trades. I can’t wait.
Im a big fan. I try not to be a doomer. But the tail end of the last 5 years I couldn’t stand to watch this iteration of the giants. Let’s start a new team
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Sept 2, 2022 9:36:45 GMT -5
This was a blind side hit for me. Had no idea Blake wasn't going to be part of the team. 2 of my favorite players were cut over money Blake and Bradshaw. Glad we kept Leo. This defense looks as though it just has too many holes to fill.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Sept 2, 2022 9:49:27 GMT -5
Our Inside linebackers are now a weak unit according to our cap spending. We are only spending 1.3% of the cap on inside linebackers. Our inside LBers are also weak according to the players we have in camp. Between the ILB's and NT teams should run over us right up the middle. Hoping for the best but very concerned.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Sept 2, 2022 9:59:51 GMT -5
I already lowered my win prediction to 4-5 games a few hours ago but that was before the Martinez news. Not saying he would have made the difference between 2 wins (original pick was 6-7 wins) but I’m starting to feel it’s much more realistic. If we get more than 5-6 wins I'll be shocked. I don't even think we reach 6 wins. I think you hit it right on the nose 4-5 wins.
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Post by grayphoenix on Sept 2, 2022 10:24:53 GMT -5
Gettleman really did a number on us. It's amazing how many holes and question marks this team has while simultaneously being stuck in cap hell.
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Post by jmike on Sept 2, 2022 10:35:33 GMT -5
Hard to believe he was released and not traded. No one wanted Martinez? I guess nobody wanted him at that number. The cap a team trading for him would be responsible is like 150K over minimum for a vet of his experience. So that isn't it. The cap savings for the Giants is negligible when you consider he has to be replaced on the roster. I think it comes out to like $300K in cap savings by cutting him. This wasn't a cap move. Word is he was not happy with the coaching staff and his role and asked to be let go. Giants obliged. His tension with the staff is likely why he didn't get team captain votes. Add in his stregths and weaknesses do not mesh well with what Wink likes to do with his LBers. In a contract year he probably doesn't want to look cooked because he is in a ill-fitting system. People ask why Ximines is still here, look at what Wink says about LBers. His first quote about them is always hands.....Ximines' hands is what got him drafted; very good; very advanced. Unfortunately he is slow to get off and can't stop the run....so he sucks; but the hands is what Wink likes and the reason he is still here is probably because Wink sees that and thinks he can make something out of him. Blake isn't here because he was gone at the end of the season anyway and a poor fit for the defense. He has a chance now to go someplace where he can showcase his talents better heading into free agency. If the Giants released Blake early in the off season; he would not have been able to sign with someone else as he was still rehabbing and he would have been on his own in that rehab. So the Giants have done right by him twice by keeping him on the team through rehab and then giving him the option of staying or going right before the season.
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Post by jmike on Sept 2, 2022 10:37:45 GMT -5
With all these cuts and dead cap the giants are being forced to eat this year, I can’t for the life of me think what Gettlemans plan was. Doesn’t seem like he had any possible way of retaining these players he was bringing in even if they did work out. The plan was simple; all of the signings would have worked out and extensions and restructures for most of them. There was no plan in the event that they didn't work out because DG knew it wouldn't be his problem anymore if that happened.
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Post by TEM on Sept 2, 2022 14:20:22 GMT -5
Our Inside linebackers are now a weak unit according to our cap spending. We are only spending 1.3% of the cap on inside linebackers. Our inside LBers are also weak according to the players we have in camp. Between the ILB's and NT teams should run over us right up the middle. Hoping for the best but very concerned. Why I am shocked by this move and taking on 7 million in dead cap.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 2, 2022 15:35:57 GMT -5
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Post by Roswell on Sept 2, 2022 15:51:49 GMT -5
Yes. Mutual. As in, Schoen - "Blake, we're going to go in a different direction." Martinez - "Okay."
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Sept 3, 2022 16:10:14 GMT -5
Our inside LBers are also weak according to the players we have in camp. Between the ILB's and NT teams should run over us right up the middle. Hoping for the best but very concerned. Why I am shocked by this move and taking on 7 million in dead cap. The opening game with Derrick Henry running the rock could be real ugly. Our beloved team just looks so weak to me going into this year. Both sides of the ball. Hope I'm wrong and get surprised by how the team grows.
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