giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,906
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Post by giantsalmon on Sept 13, 2022 20:05:40 GMT -5
True and I hope it doesn't end up getting Jones injured speaking on that... Jones looks like he is trying to protect himself when he runs now and looks totally awkward when he is going down. Not good at all IMO. I watched a lot of football on Sunday and not many QBs slide or go down prematurely anymore. They just run and take hits like football palyers. Allen stiff armed a DB with his throwing hand!! Impressive but kinda dumb. I completely agree. I'm pulling hard for Jones, I think he can play much better that what we have seen so far, yet we can win the NFC East with his current level of play. That being said he looks "wound tight". He absolutely has a right to be, its not enough for him to become wealthy being a career backup--he loves the game and wants to be "the guy". As much as some guys are so worried about turnovers that it stunts their game, DJ is absolutely not running with the same abandon. Whether he's been coached this way or its his own acknowledgement that another serious injury will seal his fate(before Decision time by NYG) he needs to get it straight in his dome.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 13, 2022 20:25:48 GMT -5
speaking on that... Jones looks like he is trying to protect himself when he runs now and looks totally awkward when he is going down. Not good at all IMO. I watched a lot of football on Sunday and not many QBs slide or go down prematurely anymore. They just run and take hits like football palyers. Allen stiff armed a DB with his throwing hand!! Impressive but kinda dumb. I completely agree. I'm pulling hard for Jones, I think he can play much better that what we have seen so far, yet we can win the NFC East with his current level of play. That being said he looks "wound tight". He absolutely has a right to be, its not enough for him to become wealthy being a career backup--he loves the game and wants to be "the guy". As much as some guys are so worried about turnovers that it stunts their game, DJ is absolutely not running with the same abandon. Whether he's been coached this way or its his own acknowledgement that another serious injury will seal his fate(before Decision time by NYG) he needs to get it straight in his dome. he def wants to the the guy. Hopefully he gets it. I have more doubt that he won't than he will but I am rooting for him big time. The pick was really bad but the rest of the game he was on target and made several key plays passing and running.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 13, 2022 20:28:17 GMT -5
Bottom line is that one game Jones overcame terrible pick and definitely helped the team win the game. Efficient stats and a few big plays Was it a step towards being a franchise QB? Probably not because the pick he threw he threw was so confounding. However Daboll does like players that can over come inevitable mistakes. He's going to be under the microscope this season fans, coaches you name it. If he does not throw that int. then a very well played game DJ just needs to remove all doubt this season and I rooting for him that he does so... yep...big time microscope. Thats situation he is in. Game 2 is on Sunday. See what happens
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Post by SG88 on Sept 13, 2022 20:34:29 GMT -5
Agree that Schoen is light years ahead of DG, but none of the players that scored against Titans were Schoen guys. Most here disliked Barkley pick? What does that say? Picking a RB with the most valuable piece of draft capital in our history was an act of lunacy. The Giants could literally drop a deuce on that guy and he would say that it smells like roses.
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Post by Speedman on Sept 13, 2022 21:19:40 GMT -5
Did you happen to watch Joe Burrow yesterday? All QB’s make mistakes. Joe Burrow has nothing to prove. We already know he's great. What does that have to do with him making mistakes?
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Post by Speedman on Sept 13, 2022 21:21:56 GMT -5
Easy question. Was he better in his first year or his last two years? Just give a short simple answer. I think they’re washes. His first year he had pretty good production but woeful turnovers. His last two years he’s had far less turnovers but woeful production. The one constant throughout all years is sketchy pocket awareness and processing speed. I would rather see him play like his first year than the last two.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 13, 2022 21:25:36 GMT -5
I think they’re washes. His first year he had pretty good production but woeful turnovers. His last two years he’s had far less turnovers but woeful production. The one constant throughout all years is sketchy pocket awareness and processing speed. I would rather see him play like his first year than the last two. he needs to play better than any of his previous years. Of course
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 13, 2022 21:34:46 GMT -5
Joe Burrow has nothing to prove. We already know he's great. What does that have to do with him making mistakes? Umm.... What?
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Post by Speedman on Sept 13, 2022 21:38:38 GMT -5
What does that have to do with him making mistakes? Umm.... What? What don’t you understand about all QB’s make mistakes?
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 13, 2022 21:48:16 GMT -5
What don’t you understand about all QB’s make mistakes? Yes of course they do...but before you've proven yourself, as Jones hasn't, those mistakes are considered the norm and not the exception.......until he proves otherwise. In two seasons, with one of the worst O lines in football, Joe Burrow has proven himself as a great NFL QB. Our hope is that Daniel Jones, now in his 4th season can at least prove that he's a legit starter in the NFL. But as we've seen with this new regime, by not picking up his option, they still believe he has yet to show that he is.
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Post by thetruth on Sept 13, 2022 21:49:31 GMT -5
What don’t you understand about all QB’s make mistakes? except Daniel Jones. In that case its the coaching, TE, OL, HB, OT's, and OG's fault when he doesn't do well. But his fault when he does okay.
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Post by giants8493 on Sept 13, 2022 22:04:40 GMT -5
They displayed QB rating. You used the acronym QBR, which is associated with how ESPN evaluates QB. What does QBR stand for? If not QB rating ESPN just wants to confuse us into using their made up stat
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Post by Speedman on Sept 13, 2022 22:05:02 GMT -5
What don’t you understand about all QB’s make mistakes? Yes of course they do...but before you've proven yourself, as Jones hasn't, those mistakes are considered the norm and not the exception.......until he proves otherwise. In two seasons, with one of the worst O lines in football, Joe Burrow has proven himself as a great NFL QB. Our hope is that Daniel Jones, now in his 4th season can at least prove that he's a legit starter in the NFL. But as we've seen with this new regime, by not picking up his option, they still believe he has yet to show that he is. This year with this coaching staff he proves that he is a franchise QB. I said either in this thread or a different one that the Judge regime shackled him and ****ed him up royally.
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Post by Speedman on Sept 13, 2022 22:06:10 GMT -5
What don’t you understand about all QB’s make mistakes? except Daniel Jones. In that case its the coaching, TE, OL, HB, OT's, and OG's fault when he doesn't do well. But his fault when he does okay. What a dumb reply.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 13, 2022 22:26:35 GMT -5
Don't know whether I should be startled that a day after Barkley leads the Giants to a victory and leads NFL in rushing that posters would bad mount his selection. In week 12 of 2015 Blake Bortles led the NFL with passing yards while throwing a week high 5 TDs. Guess that justified his 3rd overall selection. I remember. I sat him in my FF league that week.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 13, 2022 22:46:58 GMT -5
Yes of course they do...but before you've proven yourself, as Jones hasn't, those mistakes are considered the norm and not the exception.......until he proves otherwise. In two seasons, with one of the worst O lines in football, Joe Burrow has proven himself as a great NFL QB. Our hope is that Daniel Jones, now in his 4th season can at least prove that he's a legit starter in the NFL. But as we've seen with this new regime, by not picking up his option, they still believe he has yet to show that he is. This year with this coaching staff he proves that he is a franchise QB. I said either in this thread or a different one that the Judge regime shackled him and ****ed him up royally. He's terrible in the pocket. He doesn't feel the rush. He locks onto receivers. Every pass play looks like a fire drill with him. I've said this until I'm blue in the face but how do you coach that out of him? Maybe they can wave a magic wand and make it happen, but it's his main problem. He can make all the throws. He moves well. He works hard.....but he simply has no calm in the pocket. I don't care who your coaches are, by year 3 that needs to either get better or you become a back up. It's just hard to imagine to me that he can fix that this late in his career. But hope springs eternal I guess.
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Post by TEM on Sept 14, 2022 3:54:53 GMT -5
What does QBR stand for? If not QB rating ESPN just wants to confuse us into using their made up stat That is not the point, He claims he knows what it is. The truth is; he can't say what it means
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Post by Speedman on Sept 14, 2022 11:12:38 GMT -5
This year with this coaching staff he proves that he is a franchise QB. I said either in this thread or a different one that the Judge regime shackled him and ****ed him up royally. He's terrible in the pocket. He doesn't feel the rush. He locks onto receivers. Every pass play looks like a fire drill with him. I've said this until I'm blue in the face but how do you coach that out of him? Maybe they can wave a magic wand and make it happen, but it's his main problem. He can make all the throws. He moves well. He works hard.....but he simply has no calm in the pocket. I don't care who your coaches are, by year 3 that needs to either get better or you become a back up. It's just hard to imagine to me that he can fix that this late in his career. But hope springs eternal I guess. I guess we will see by the end of the season which one of us was correct.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 14, 2022 11:34:52 GMT -5
He's terrible in the pocket. He doesn't feel the rush. He locks onto receivers. Every pass play looks like a fire drill with him. I've said this until I'm blue in the face but how do you coach that out of him? Maybe they can wave a magic wand and make it happen, but it's his main problem. He can make all the throws. He moves well. He works hard.....but he simply has no calm in the pocket. I don't care who your coaches are, by year 3 that needs to either get better or you become a back up. It's just hard to imagine to me that he can fix that this late in his career. But hope springs eternal I guess. I guess we will see by the end of the season which one of us was correct. I hope it's you.
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Post by jb456 on Sept 14, 2022 11:37:34 GMT -5
This year with this coaching staff he proves that he is a franchise QB. I said either in this thread or a different one that the Judge regime shackled him and ****ed him up royally. He's terrible in the pocket. He doesn't feel the rush. He locks onto receivers. Every pass play looks like a fire drill with him. I've said this until I'm blue in the face but how do you coach that out of him? Maybe they can wave a magic wand and make it happen, but it's his main problem. He can make all the throws. He moves well. He works hard.....but he simply has no calm in the pocket. I don't care who your coaches are, by year 3 that needs to either get better or you become a back up. It's just hard to imagine to me that he can fix that this late in his career. But hope springs eternal I guess. He is probably one of the worst starting QB in the league in regards to pocket presence.
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miggs
Starter
Posts: 4,264
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Post by miggs on Sept 14, 2022 11:50:34 GMT -5
Let's see if you like his pocket presence after a few games. Then text about it. Not easy for any QB to navigate the pocket when rushers are upon you in 2.4 seconds.
Just glad that Jones has one of the most accurate arms in the NFL on both short and long tosses, is smart, has good speed to run the ball, and competed of 17-21 passes in his first game playing in a new system.
Good coaches teach QBs how to get rid of ball quickly or throw it away. Daboll's a good coach.
Pass play Jones got intercepted on was a bad play. Play should have called for Jones to throw the ball when Barkley was coming out of the backfield, not in end zone where defender was waiting for him. But for the bad play call, the Giants would have scored 27-points in the second half.
Titans QB had to thrown 11 more passes than Jones to complete three more passes than Jones. As the Titan QB had 33 passes and completed 20 passes, while it took Jones to take only 21 passes to complete 17 passes. Be thankful.
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Post by Speedman on Sept 14, 2022 12:18:20 GMT -5
I guess we will see by the end of the season which one of us was correct. I hope it's you. Me too.
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Post by Speedman on Sept 14, 2022 12:25:34 GMT -5
I would rather see him play like his first year than the last two. You're entitled to your opinion. Simple question/answer: Do you think his first year's play is worthy of $160M guaranteed and $40M per year? Very few players are worth that kind of money. I believe that at the end of this year Jones will be worth 30 to 35m per year.
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jerky
Special Teams
Posts: 1,049
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Post by jerky on Sept 14, 2022 12:35:37 GMT -5
I think everyone on this board hopes you are right, but most of us can't see it happening. I would love nothing more than for him to be a franchise QB, and prove all of us wrong. But his pocket presence scares the hell out of me every time he drops back.
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Post by Speedman on Sept 14, 2022 12:56:46 GMT -5
I think everyone on this board hopes you are right, but most of us can't see it happening. I would love nothing more than for him to be a franchise QB, and prove all of us wrong. But his pocket presence scares the hell out of me every time he drops back. To me his pocket presence this week didn’t look as bad as people on this board are making it out to be. I believe it will get better the more he learns to trust the OL.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 14, 2022 13:02:43 GMT -5
I think everyone on this board hopes you are right, but most of us can't see it happening. I would love nothing more than for him to be a franchise QB, and prove all of us wrong. But his pocket presence scares the hell out of me every time he drops back. To me his pocket presence this week didn’t look as bad as people on this board are making it out to be. I believe it will get better the more he learns to trust the OL. connecting on 17 of 21 with one drop in there as well and 2 TDs is good day and doesnt show he is panicking in the pocket. I do think he does still have pocket awareness issues at times. I will say that even with Eli, or any QB for the NYGs, when ever they drop back I am always worried about a pick. Its how I am as a fan. When I watch other teams I dont really care so I watch with a different mindset.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2022 13:21:05 GMT -5
You're entitled to your opinion. Simple question/answer: Do you think his first year's play is worthy of $160M guaranteed and $40M per year? Very few players are worth that kind of money. I believe that at the end of this year Jones will be worth 30 to 35m per year.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 14, 2022 13:34:09 GMT -5
I think everyone on this board hopes you are right, but most of us can't see it happening. I would love nothing more than for him to be a franchise QB, and prove all of us wrong. But his pocket presence scares the hell out of me every time he drops back. To me his pocket presence this week didn’t look as bad as people on this board are making it out to be. I believe it will get better the more he learns to trust the OL. The test of a QB isn't what he does with a clean pocket. Mark Sanchez looked great when he had little pressure. The real test is what they do in a collapsing pocket....because defenders rarely give a QB a clean pocket. They get paid too. Edge rushers are among the highest paid players in the league. That is where these arguments for DJ fall apart. "Wait until he trusts his OL"....."Wait until he has a running game"....."Wait until his receivers get separation" NFL QB's are expected to make plays even when they don't have everything go right. Your argument seems to be that Daniel Jones can't perform unless everything is great around him. I'm saying that's not what QB's are paid to be.
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Post by thetruth on Sept 14, 2022 13:36:09 GMT -5
To me his pocket presence this week didn’t look as bad as people on this board are making it out to be. I believe it will get better the more he learns to trust the OL. connecting on 17 of 21 with one drop in there as well and 2 TDs is good day and doesnt show he is panicking in the pocket. I do think he does still have pocket awareness issues at times. I will say that even with Eli, or any QB for the NYGs, when ever they drop back I am always worried about a pick. Its how I am as a fan. When I watch other teams I dont really care so I watch with a different mindset. You'd think his career sample size is a much stronger indicator of DJ's accuracy, or lack thereof. Something tells me 80% completion wont last, and neither should his 177 yards passing, if we want to win consistently in a passing game that is the NFL. He wont be able to rely on brilliantly designed concepts all the time. He will have to show he can play equally well off-script, so far? not looking great in that regard. Would love to be proven wrong in this regard, I just dont see it with Daniel Jones.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 14, 2022 13:40:58 GMT -5
connecting on 17 of 21 with one drop in there as well and 2 TDs is good day and doesnt show he is panicking in the pocket. I do think he does still have pocket awareness issues at times. I will say that even with Eli, or any QB for the NYGs, when ever they drop back I am always worried about a pick. Its how I am as a fan. When I watch other teams I dont really care so I watch with a different mindset. You'd think his career sample size is a much stronger indicator of DJ's accuracy, or lack thereof. Something tells me 80% completion wont last, and neither should his 177 yards passing, if we want to win consistently in a passing game that is the NFL. He wont be able to rely on brilliantly designed concepts all the time. He will have to show he can play equally well off-script, so far? not looking great in that regard. Would love to be proven wrong in this regard, I just dont see it with Daniel Jones. Completion % is NOT a measure of accuracy. I think DJ is actually a very accurate passer. Comp. % is generally a measure of the kinds of throws a QB is making. A lot of short passes makes it easy to have a high comp. %.....which is what we had last Sunday. Eli had a much higher comp. % in the McAdoo years and after. That was a product of a short passing system. He was much more of a natural downfield passer. He was actually a better QB when his comp. % was lower. That's why the KG system was perfect for Eli.
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