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Post by DJones19 on Sept 14, 2022 8:55:20 GMT -5
If top QBs are making 50 and don't see why Barkley isn't worth 10-12 million if he continues to perform well like week 1.
Like most other people here I don't believe in massive contracts for RBs...sounds like I'm more willing to sign him than others though.
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 14, 2022 8:55:22 GMT -5
Seems like teams can always pick up a quality RB on short deals recently, once they're contenders. I'm definitely with you on the receivers, can't believe any of them are still getting big contracts. Draft RBs on the 3rd day also is an option.. I think with all the talented WRs coming out of the draft these past years it will soon cause them to have to settle for less money in FA market in the future.. Another position going through w compensation transformation. That’s the foundation of my point. I don’t think you have to pay a SB big money because I think the NFL has shifted. And if you have to pay him big money then you walk away. It just doesn’t make sense. But everyone is assuming he’s gone (me included). Just like everyone assumed we’d be drafting a QB (me included). But the ground has shifted since July. We could pick at 18, there could be no market for RBs, and Barkley could put up 2,000 yards.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2022 8:55:32 GMT -5
It's not just Barkley's performance that will determine if the Giants offer a contract, it's the state of the team. As I mentioned, do you pay a RB top 1 or 2 money if Jones doesn't work out? I can’t think of a scenario where this FO pays him McCaffrey money. Literally can’t think of one. If no other team will either, it gets interesting. I think we’re witnessing the demise of the position. I think the top 5 RB contracts prove it. They won’t get those numbers in todays market. My two cents. It's going to be curious how the QB market is going to continue if the trend that QBs on 2nd contracts rarely win the SB now that Brady is close to the end. Surprise how much Rogers has fallen always thought he was the next one to win multiple SBs now it's up to Maholmes to be that player or will he..
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Post by GameTime on Sept 14, 2022 8:58:04 GMT -5
Not SBs fault he was drafted at #2. I hope he has a great season, stays healthy and helps this team win games. With that said I dont see the NYGs giving him big money unless he has some other wordly type season. Hopefully if he is part od trade/draft spot package its not for a QB because I want Jones to work out. I dont want this team top have to start over with some rookie QB which may or may not work out. I think the market for RBs falls apart. QBs have always been a premium but Mahomes and Burrows broke the mold. They’re overcoming crappy o lines and are still incredibly successful. It’s the Browns but I don’t think what they gave up for Watson was out of market. And he has warts. Real warts. decent QBs want all guaranteed money now. The top of the RB world is riddled with injuries. I think the market for RBs collapses because of their short shelf life and how much of your cap you need for a QB. I agree....SB most likely wont be a NYG next season. Maybe a deal can be struck with an SB bound team in 2023.
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Post by jimmieray on Sept 14, 2022 8:59:38 GMT -5
Our FO might share that opinion. Very curious what the next couple of drafts will be to get a feel for their idea on how to build a team.. I wish QB would not be in this equation, that will likely throw the next draft off quite a bit - especially if our record winds up fairly decent.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 14, 2022 9:00:37 GMT -5
Couple facts: He’s NEVER going to get a contract that represents his draft position. Not even worth discussing. He’s an injury risk, so huge guaranteed money for him is a huge risk. But watching breakdown/commentary of his big plays shows that his skill set isn’t “common”. I’m in the Toronto area so I see a lot of Buffalo games. Singletary is a great back but you can’t really compare him to Barkley. Heres my thought, to me it’s conceivable that Jones doesn’t work out but Barkley could put up 2,000 combined yards and we could still end up a near .500 team with our schedule, which conceivably puts us picking in the mid teens in the 1st round (15-19). You could have 3-4 QB desperate teams in the top 5. If our FO doesn’t love any of the fringe QBs, how far do you go to re-sign Barkley? Are you willing to risk falling from 7-9 wins back down to 5-7 because you’re not willing to trade three 1st rd picks (probably more) to move up and snag the QB that you want. It’s the modern NFL. If you fall in love with a QB you’re sure is a franchise QB I think you sell the house and live on the street to get him. It’s clear an amazing QB and an average OL is all you really need. But if Barkley puts this team on his back instead of Jones, it creates and interesting dynamic in the off-season. I think if Jones doesn't work out Barkley makes sense if he stays healthy and has a big year. Having a guy like Barkley to take the heat off of a young QB is paramount question, is how much, more important is how long and structure. The Giants are in a different place then when they drafted him they have making of an OL that can support him and get him to the second level, and by next season be ready to protect a young gun slinger. All I can say is if they want him I would go no further than 3 years. That gives him another bight of the Apple at 28-29 and the Giants a multi talented weapon that Daboll seems to like having at his disposal. We gotta get through a healthy productive season first, I do not think teams are gonna throw the bag at RBs anymore think Zeke might have been the last one we will have to see if Schoen and Daboll get mesmerized, because if he stays healthy and runs with that type of ferocity it's gonna be hard not to.
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Post by Rangers13 on Sept 14, 2022 9:00:56 GMT -5
mentioned earlier, i anticipate Barkley having a big year and coming back. The debate will be is Barkley making Jones look better than he is.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2022 9:01:05 GMT -5
Very curious what the next couple of drafts will be to get a feel for their idea on how to build a team.. I wish QB would not be in this equation, that will likely throw the next draft off quite a bit - especially if our record winds up fairly decent. Yeah it would unless they find some gem in the 3rd like Wilson..
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Post by Nite on Sept 14, 2022 9:05:42 GMT -5
Very curious what the next couple of drafts will be to get a feel for their idea on how to build a team.. I wish QB would not be in this equation, that will likely throw the next draft off quite a bit - especially if our record winds up fairly decent. Ppl think all 1st rd QBs work out. That is not true. In fact most don't. A team could get a decent QB in the 2nd or maybe 3rd rd. Its a crapshoot. All the talking heads were in love with Trey Lance, Justine Fields, Mac Jones. But those. are not doing well - at this moment. We don't need a HoF, we just need a decent franchise potential QB that could win games and come through in the clutch.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 14, 2022 9:06:25 GMT -5
Not SBs fault he was drafted at #2. I hope he has a great season, stays healthy and helps this team win games. With that said I dont see the NYGs giving him big money unless he has some other wordly type season. Hopefully if he is part od trade/draft spot package its not for a QB because I want Jones to work out. I dont want this team top have to start over with some rookie QB which may or may not work out. I think the market for RBs falls apart. QBs have always been a premium but Mahomes and Burrows broke the mold. They’re overcoming crappy o lines and are still incredibly successful. It’s the Browns but I don’t think what they gave up for Watson was out of market. And he has warts. Real warts. decent QBs want all guaranteed money now. The top of the RB world is riddled with injuries. I think the market for RBs collapses because of their short shelf life and how much of your cap you need for a QB. Think RB is gonna be devalued quite a bit. Not sure with SQB how it will work out if he catches 80 or 90 balls and runs for a ton of yards to. Thats a different animal, Half WR had RB. As I said in my last post he makes more sense with a rookie QB.
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Post by jaymas on Sept 14, 2022 9:10:05 GMT -5
It's not just Barkley's performance that will determine if the Giants offer a contract, it's the state of the team. As I mentioned, do you pay a RB top 1 or 2 money if Jones doesn't work out? I can’t think of a scenario where this FO pays him McCaffrey money. Literally can’t think of one. If no other team will either, it gets interesting. I think we’re witnessing the demise of the position. I think the top 5 RB contracts prove it. They won’t get those numbers in todays market. My two cents. This is exactly where I'm at. And if the position is devalued enough + his two injured years and you can get someone as dynamic as him for 10-12 mil on like a 3 year deal...it's a wildly different scenario than Gurley, McCaffery, Elliot etc. I think you have to think about it in that case. But, all about health. Obviously, he's only one game into this year. Overall, it's a more complex decision than people give it credit for.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 14, 2022 9:11:22 GMT -5
Draft RBs on the 3rd day also is an option.. I think with all the talented WRs coming out of the draft these past years it will soon cause them to have to settle for less money in FA market in the future.. Another position going through w compensation transformation. That’s the foundation of my point. I don’t think you have to pay a SB big money because I think the NFL has shifted. And if you have to pay him big money then you walk away. It just doesn’t make sense. But everyone is assuming he’s gone (me included). Just like everyone assumed we’d be drafting a QB (me included). But the ground has shifted since July. We could pick at 18, there could be no market for RBs, and Barkley could put up 2,000 yards. I think if they can keep him without cap hell 3 year deal or something they might maybe they look at the last 2 years of injuries and say no thanks maybe they see it as less wear and tear who knows. I trust Schoen more than anyone who has run this team since George Young right now, like JR he will have to do a lot wrong to loose that trust.
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 14, 2022 9:13:16 GMT -5
I wish QB would not be in this equation, that will likely throw the next draft off quite a bit - especially if our record winds up fairly decent. Ppl think all 1st rd QBs work out. That is not true. In fact most don't. A team could get a decent QB in the 2nd or maybe 2rd rd. Its a crapshoot. All the talking heads were in love with Trey Lance, Justine Fields, Mac Jones. But those. are not doing well - at this moment. We don't need a HoF, we just need a decent franchise potential QB that could win games and come through in the clutch. Loved this comment. This is the evolution of the discussion. Our FO knows most 1st rd QBs don’t turn out. I guarantee part of the discussion in the FO is the importance of a rookie QB contract to building a team. There just aren’t a lot of Mahomes or Burrows. For every one of those there’s 7-8 Darnolds. So do you draft someone later in the 1st who doesn’t have enormous upside because it helps you build out the rest of your team and mold a QB better than Jones has been? This will be the most interesting off-season we’ve had in 10 years. I know how this FO will react if they fall in love with a QB. But if they don’t, I’ll be really interested in how they transition this team.
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Post by jimmieray on Sept 14, 2022 9:13:58 GMT -5
I wish QB would not be in this equation, that will likely throw the next draft off quite a bit - especially if our record winds up fairly decent. Ppl think all 1st rd QBs work out. That is not true. In fact most don't. A team could get a decent QB in the 2nd or maybe 2rd rd. Its a crapshoot. All the talking heads were in love with Trey Lance, Justine Fields, Mac Jones. But those. are not doing well - at this moment. We don't need a HoF, we just need a decent franchise potential QB that could win games and come through in the clutch. I'm sure TEM has the numbers on this. Of course, most of us as well as the media highly scrutinize the first round pick QBs, not too many follow the later ones.
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 14, 2022 9:14:26 GMT -5
Another position going through w compensation transformation. That’s the foundation of my point. I don’t think you have to pay a SB big money because I think the NFL has shifted. And if you have to pay him big money then you walk away. It just doesn’t make sense. But everyone is assuming he’s gone (me included). Just like everyone assumed we’d be drafting a QB (me included). But the ground has shifted since July. We could pick at 18, there could be no market for RBs, and Barkley could put up 2,000 yards. I think if they can keep him without cap hell 3 year deal or something they might maybe they look at the last 2 years of injuries and say no thanks maybe they see it as less wear and tear who knows. I trust Schoen more than anyone who has run this team since George Young right now, like JR he will have to do a lot wrong to loose that trust. Exactly.
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Post by jimmieray on Sept 14, 2022 9:17:42 GMT -5
Ppl think all 1st rd QBs work out. That is not true. In fact most don't. A team could get a decent QB in the 2nd or maybe 2rd rd. Its a crapshoot. All the talking heads were in love with Trey Lance, Justine Fields, Mac Jones. But those. are not doing well - at this moment. We don't need a HoF, we just need a decent franchise potential QB that could win games and come through in the clutch. Loved this comment. This is the evolution of the discussion. Our FO knows most 1st rd QBs don’t turn out. I guarantee part of the discussion in the FO is the importance of a rookie QB contract to building a team. There just aren’t a lot of Mahomes or Burrows. For every one of those there’s 7-8 Darnolds. So do you draft someone later in the 1st who doesn’t have enormous upside because it helps you build out the rest of your team and mold a QB better than Jones has been? This will be the most interesting off-season we’ve had in 10 years. I know how this FO will react if they fall in love with a QB. But if they don’t, I’ll be really interested in how they transition this team. Also it's likely that teams doing well each season are less likely to look for or land the most highly touted college QBs. And perennial cellar dwellers, who don't spend to fill out a roster or aren't capable of developing QBs, mostly do. I think that is a major factor.
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 14, 2022 9:20:25 GMT -5
Ppl think all 1st rd QBs work out. That is not true. In fact most don't. A team could get a decent QB in the 2nd or maybe 2rd rd. Its a crapshoot. All the talking heads were in love with Trey Lance, Justine Fields, Mac Jones. But those. are not doing well - at this moment. We don't need a HoF, we just need a decent franchise potential QB that could win games and come through in the clutch. I'm sure TEM has the numbers on this. Of course, most of us as well as the media highly scrutinize the first round pick QBs, not too many follow the later ones. The stats on teams offering QBs they drafted in the 1st round a second contract are pathetic. Part of the reason is their rookie contracts are probably more valuable than their skill set. You have to have most of your team set already when you offer a QB $50 a year for 5, all guaranteed. I think most fans thought process on drafting QBs is too shallow. Even if you trust your scouting dept, you’re buying a lottery ticket. There’s more that goes into the decision than “I need a franchise QB”.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 14, 2022 9:20:56 GMT -5
I can’t think of a scenario where this FO pays him McCaffrey money. Literally can’t think of one. If no other team will either, it gets interesting. I think we’re witnessing the demise of the position. I think the top 5 RB contracts prove it. They won’t get those numbers in todays market. My two cents. This is exactly where I'm at. And if the position is devalued enough + his two injured years and you can get someone as dynamic as him for 10-12 mil on like a 3 year deal...it's a wildly different scenario than Gurley, McCaffery, Elliot etc. I think you have to think about it in that case. But, all about health. Obviously, he's only one game into this year. Overall, it's a more complex decision than people give it credit for. 3 year deal works nicely for both parties not tied in long term and he gets another bight at I think 28 years old maybe 29. Also they can throw some upper level incentives in there if they wanted to. We are getting way ahead of our selves first thing is first he needs to be healthy present and bring that nasty he brought Sunday week in and week out. On the 2 point conversion the DB got up woozy it looked like. Thats how it should be with a 240 pound back that has the explosiveness of a Tyreek Hill and the power of Derrick Henry.
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 14, 2022 9:25:28 GMT -5
Loved this comment. This is the evolution of the discussion. Our FO knows most 1st rd QBs don’t turn out. I guarantee part of the discussion in the FO is the importance of a rookie QB contract to building a team. There just aren’t a lot of Mahomes or Burrows. For every one of those there’s 7-8 Darnolds. So do you draft someone later in the 1st who doesn’t have enormous upside because it helps you build out the rest of your team and mold a QB better than Jones has been? This will be the most interesting off-season we’ve had in 10 years. I know how this FO will react if they fall in love with a QB. But if they don’t, I’ll be really interested in how they transition this team. Also it's likely that teams doing well each season are less likely to look for or land the most highly touted college QBs. And perennial cellar dwellers, who don't spend to fill out a roster or aren't capable of developing QBs, mostly do. I think that is a major factor. Absolutely. It’s the weird situation we’re in. If we pick at 18, how much do you have to give up to get into the top 5? And what you had to offer 3 years ago to move up has changed. None of this is cut and dry.
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Post by jimmieray on Sept 14, 2022 9:26:00 GMT -5
I'm sure TEM has the numbers on this. Of course, most of us as well as the media highly scrutinize the first round pick QBs, not too many follow the later ones. The stats on teams offering QBs they drafted in the 1st round a second contract are pathetic. Part of the reason is their rookie contracts are probably more valuable than their skill set. You have to have most of your team set already when you offer a QB $50 a year for 5, all guaranteed. I think most fans thought process on drafting QBs is too shallow. Even if you trust your scouting dept, you’re buying a lottery ticket. There’s more that goes into the decision than “I need a franchise QB”. So there are factors, outside of whether that first rounder can be considered a solid starter. I just don't see our F.O. waiting for the third round to pick a QB, if Jones does not prove he is worth a second contract.
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Post by Rangers13 on Sept 14, 2022 9:29:59 GMT -5
Guaranteed dollars would probably be in the first three years yet i could see him signed for five years. Then they restructure if they think he’ll be here beyond three years or dismiss him after year three or take a hit if he’s gone in two.
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 14, 2022 9:31:59 GMT -5
The stats on teams offering QBs they drafted in the 1st round a second contract are pathetic. Part of the reason is their rookie contracts are probably more valuable than their skill set. You have to have most of your team set already when you offer a QB $50 a year for 5, all guaranteed. I think most fans thought process on drafting QBs is too shallow. Even if you trust your scouting dept, you’re buying a lottery ticket. There’s more that goes into the decision than “I need a franchise QB”. So there are factors, outside of whether that first rounder can be considered a solid starter. I just don't see our F.O. waiting for the third round to pick a QB, if Jones does not prove he is worth a second contract. Agree. And what’s a “second contract?” If we’re picking at 18 and the top 5 draft pick teams are all QB needy, do we just tag him? Do we start TT? Geno Smirh is a starter in the NFL. Time for all of us to zoom out when looking at potential solutions for 2023.
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Post by Martin on Sept 14, 2022 9:35:45 GMT -5
I'm in the camp that a team shouldn't give big contracts to RBs, WRs and TEs.. For starters.. TE would be the only position I’d disagree with, even the “big” contracts are relatively cheap. Big proponent of buying talent at the “cheap” positions and drafting the expensive positions. Some caveats to that, but generally speaking.. Yes leave TE's off that list. RB and WR (FA contracts) both too expensive yet replaceable for less. No Dave G. stupidity anymore.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 14, 2022 9:37:58 GMT -5
This is exactly where I'm at. And if the position is devalued enough + his two injured years and you can get someone as dynamic as him for 10-12 mil on like a 3 year deal...it's a wildly different scenario than Gurley, McCaffery, Elliot etc. I think you have to think about it in that case. But, all about health. Obviously, he's only one game into this year. Overall, it's a more complex decision than people give it credit for. 3 year deal works nicely for both parties not tied in long term and he gets another bight at I think 28 years old maybe 29. Also they can throw some upper level incentives in there if they wanted to. We are getting way ahead of our selves first thing is first he needs to be healthy present and bring that nasty he brought Sunday week in and week out. On the 2 point conversion the DB got up woozy it looked like. Thats how it should be with a 240 pound back that has the explosiveness of a Tyreek Hill and the power of Derrick Henry. No player who has a history of injuries will take a three year deal. It only works for the team, not the player. This is his first and only chance to get the most money, and years. He may never get another chance. His agent should be fired immediately if this is the contract he gets him. You’re kidding yourself to think he doesn’t look around the league and his fellow peers, and see the amount of money being thrown around. And make no mistake, he believes he’s better than all of them. As he should, professional players have an ego that is second to none.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 14, 2022 9:41:22 GMT -5
I'm sure TEM has the numbers on this. Of course, most of us as well as the media highly scrutinize the first round pick QBs, not too many follow the later ones. The stats on teams offering QBs they drafted in the 1st round a second contract are pathetic. Part of the reason is their rookie contracts are probably more valuable than their skill set. You have to have most of your team set already when you offer a QB $50 a year for 5, all guaranteed. I think most fans thought process on drafting QBs is too shallow. Even if you trust your scouting dept, you’re buying a lottery ticket. There’s more that goes into the decision than “I need a franchise QB”. I think with QBs they should be drafted every couple years for developmental purposes they are money in the bank if a team hits on one. Last years QB class I said it was one of those classes a team could wait for the fruit to fall to them they were all bunched up and there was a lot of second level talent. This year so far it is early yes but it seems there will be talent spread through the first round.
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 14, 2022 9:41:59 GMT -5
I can’t think of a scenario where this FO pays him McCaffrey money. Literally can’t think of one. If no other team will either, it gets interesting. I think we’re witnessing the demise of the position. I think the top 5 RB contracts prove it. They won’t get those numbers in todays market. My two cents. This is exactly where I'm at. And if the position is devalued enough + his two injured years and you can get someone as dynamic as him for 10-12 mil on like a 3 year deal...it's a wildly different scenario than Gurley, McCaffery, Elliot etc. I think you have to think about it in that case. But, all about health. Obviously, he's only one game into this year. Overall, it's a more complex decision than people give it credit for. Bang on. In July I was at 95% chance Barkley is gone. I’m at 80% now. Ask me in a month if we’re 4-0. Not because he contributes to the 4-0 as much as our draft pick becomes later in the first round, his health holding up, the health of other RBs deteriorating or staying “meh”, and where are QB needy teams in the draft order. Your last point is critical. He’s not as good as gone. It’s not that simple anymore. It can absolutely become that simple again! But right now there’s some intrigue.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 14, 2022 9:44:03 GMT -5
3 year deal works nicely for both parties not tied in long term and he gets another bight at I think 28 years old maybe 29. Also they can throw some upper level incentives in there if they wanted to. We are getting way ahead of our selves first thing is first he needs to be healthy present and bring that nasty he brought Sunday week in and week out. On the 2 point conversion the DB got up woozy it looked like. Thats how it should be with a 240 pound back that has the explosiveness of a Tyreek Hill and the power of Derrick Henry. No player who has a history of injuries will take a three year deal. It only works for the team, not the player. This is his first and only chance to get the most money, and years. He may never get another chance. His agent should be fired immediately if this is the contract he gets him. You’re kidding yourself to think he doesn’t look around the league and his fellow peers, and see the amount of money being thrown around. And make no mistake, he believes he’s better than all of them. As he should, professional players have an ego that is second to none. He's and RB with an injury history the league knows this not sure what his market will be, not saying it will be nothing but the days of RBs making over 13 mill might be over. All good points tho.
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 14, 2022 9:44:52 GMT -5
3 year deal works nicely for both parties not tied in long term and he gets another bight at I think 28 years old maybe 29. Also they can throw some upper level incentives in there if they wanted to. We are getting way ahead of our selves first thing is first he needs to be healthy present and bring that nasty he brought Sunday week in and week out. On the 2 point conversion the DB got up woozy it looked like. Thats how it should be with a 240 pound back that has the explosiveness of a Tyreek Hill and the power of Derrick Henry. No player who has a history of injuries will take a three year deal. It only works for the team, not the player. This is his first and only chance to get the most money, and years. He may never get another chance. His agent should be fired immediately if this is the contract he gets him. You’re kidding yourself to think he doesn’t look around the league and his fellow peers, and see the amount of money being thrown around. And make no mistake, he believes he’s better than all of them. As he should, professional players have an ego that is second to none. Can’t refute this. It just takes 1 GM to prove you right. I need 31 to think like me for my long shot opinion to be right. But I still think there’s more light at the end of that tunnel than there was in July.
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 14, 2022 9:46:53 GMT -5
No player who has a history of injuries will take a three year deal. It only works for the team, not the player. This is his first and only chance to get the most money, and years. He may never get another chance. His agent should be fired immediately if this is the contract he gets him. You’re kidding yourself to think he doesn’t look around the league and his fellow peers, and see the amount of money being thrown around. And make no mistake, he believes he’s better than all of them. As he should, professional players have an ego that is second to none. He's and RB with an injury history the league knows this not sure what his market will be, not saying it will be nothing but the days of RBs making over 13 mill might be over. All good points tho. I’m with you on this. It’s a long short opinion but I think the RB market is going to tank. Like I said to Kruunch, all it takes is one desperate GM and he’s gone.
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Post by imgrate on Sept 14, 2022 9:47:42 GMT -5
3 year deal works nicely for both parties not tied in long term and he gets another bight at I think 28 years old maybe 29. Also they can throw some upper level incentives in there if they wanted to. We are getting way ahead of our selves first thing is first he needs to be healthy present and bring that nasty he brought Sunday week in and week out. On the 2 point conversion the DB got up woozy it looked like. Thats how it should be with a 240 pound back that has the explosiveness of a Tyreek Hill and the power of Derrick Henry. No player who has a history of injuries will take a three year deal. It only works for the team, not the player. This is his first and only chance to get the most money, and years. He may never get another chance. His agent should be fired immediately if this is the contract he gets him. You’re kidding yourself to think he doesn’t look around the league and his fellow peers, and see the amount of money being thrown around. And make no mistake, he believes he’s better than all of them. As he should, professional players have an ego that is second to none. Exactly. People talking about potentially 10-12mill are kidding themselves. If Barkley has a full year of this production then you’re looking at the Alvin Kamara deal, adjusted for capflation… So, something in the ballpark of 5 years, averaging 17.5mill/yr
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