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Post by thetruth on Dec 4, 2022 17:44:16 GMT -5
I dont know how our fan base can watch that game and not be concerned about what DJ is capable of as it pertains to being a drop back QB. Yeesh, problems galore. But we can choose to ignore that, wont help the Giants. I just want to see him play with real NFL receivers, an upgraded oline in the middle and his TE healthy So a complete OL, the best LT in the game, a RT soon to be there, an upgraded interior OC, RG, LG, and a 2 great WR(s), TE, and im guessing we'd also be factoring in Saquon because Jones doesn't do well without a running game. So how much does this cost? and why would we be paying DJ anything given the situation around him? (in this dream scenario where we magically hit all our picks and FA) QB's make their $ as they compensate for weaknesses on the team. Instead, we should strengthen everywhere to compensate for a weakness at QB? It wouldn't be how I go about it. is this easier than just drafting someone competent at QB? Im not sure we'd lose much as our QB can't even average 1 TD passing and 200 ypg. How much do we "lose"? Curious what Schoen thinks. I know what Gettlemen would do
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Post by presumablygunner on Dec 4, 2022 17:45:13 GMT -5
Man this guy is really active when we don't win
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Post by thetruth on Dec 4, 2022 17:46:37 GMT -5
Man this guy is really active when we don't win great name
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Post by thetruth on Dec 4, 2022 17:48:07 GMT -5
I just want to see him play with real NFL receivers, an upgraded oline in the middle and his TE healthy So… You want to pay a serviceable QB $30+ million a year? You do realize that you just said you needed 7 positions on the offense either changed or to remain fully healthy throughout the season for you to be capable of coming to a conclusion on Jones? they want to pay Jones and pay everyone. this will be the 'no holes' offence. Come to think of it, Jones would be feasible without a salary cap.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 4, 2022 17:48:45 GMT -5
If they got draft those 3 spots top 3 in any order and do nothing for this defense we will be in the same mess they need to fix this defense. It is to easy when it counts with them. I would say Inside LB is far and away this teams biggest hole. Also CB considering Winks scheme, personally, id take both over a WR early in the draft I think depending on how it falls what ever one of ILB WR or CB is graded highest on their board they grab.
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jros
Special Teams
Posts: 171
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Post by jros on Dec 4, 2022 17:51:59 GMT -5
Yeah okay. From an objective point of view, The QB is absolutely not the issue, lol. He’s been very good this year. You have no clue what you’re talking about. The issue is the wr talent with the exception of slayton, who has really stepped up, making critical mistakes at key moments in the game, bad play calling in key moments of the game, and the ol pass blocking. I think the ol has done a pretty good job at run blocking. its funny, every objective stat there exists points to the contrary. Maybe you have some evidence to suggest otherwise? His passer rating a little above 90 for year which close to Lamar Jackson and a couple of points below Aaron Rodgers while have the highest receiver drop rate in league, and he in the top 5 in qb rushing yards. Just stop it dude. Don’t embarrass yourself.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 4, 2022 17:55:29 GMT -5
I just want to see him play with real NFL receivers, an upgraded oline in the middle and his TE healthy So… You want to pay a serviceable QB $30+ million a year? You do realize that you just said you needed 7 positions on the offense either changed or to remain fully healthy throughout the season for you to be capable of coming to a conclusion on Jones? Daboll knows after film if Jones is going to the right places with the ball and making the right choices throwing balls away and taking the shorter stuff this coach and this GM will not hitch their wagon to someone they don't believe they can win with. None of us know and even watch all 22 won't tell the whole story we don't know the play call we don't know 1st 2nd 3rd read and so on, will know when they either pay him or let him walk. My guess is they offer him fare market deal he hasn't proven anything yet but he can manage a game.
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Post by thetruth on Dec 4, 2022 17:56:27 GMT -5
its funny, every objective stat there exists points to the contrary. Maybe you have some evidence to suggest otherwise? His passer rating a little above 90 for year which close to Lamar Jackson and a couple of points below Aaron Rodgers while have the highest receiver drop rate in league, and he in the top 5 in qb rushing yards. Just stop it dude. Don’t embarrass yourself. "don't embarrass yourself" lol. Now try statistics that actually matter. Want some examples? - TDs - TDs/game - Yards per game - Yards per attempt. Then again, why look at statistics that actually matter when there is passer rating! thanks for the laugh. Better than the guy referencing fantasy statistics though. That was gold
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Post by allnygin on Dec 4, 2022 18:13:49 GMT -5
My dude go back to taking rips from your exhaust pipe you incel. Who the **** asked you? Also, anyone with a brain cell and two eye's does not need an explanation. That’s not explaining your stance. And adding aggression to the deflection doesn’t substantiate anything. In fact it just makes you look incapable of explaining your stance. Very well then
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jros
Special Teams
Posts: 171
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Post by jros on Dec 4, 2022 18:16:22 GMT -5
His passer rating a little above 90 for year which close to Lamar Jackson and a couple of points below Aaron Rodgers while have the highest receiver drop rate in league, and he in the top 5 in qb rushing yards. Just stop it dude. Don’t embarrass yourself. "don't embarrass yourself" lol. Now try statistics that actually matter. Want some examples? - TDs - TDs/game - Yards per game - Yards per attempt. Then again, why look at statistics that actually matter when there is passer rating! thanks for the laugh. Better than the guy referencing fantasy statistics though. That was gold Oh boy dude. The giants do not pass it as much as other teams. Not to mention they don’t have some of the ol and wr talent that those other teams have so those other stats are not as relevant for comparing qb efficiency or effectiveness. Obviously, you don’t shit about statistics. It’s okay.
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Post by thetruth on Dec 4, 2022 18:23:19 GMT -5
"don't embarrass yourself" lol. Now try statistics that actually matter. Want some examples? - TDs - TDs/game - Yards per game - Yards per attempt. Then again, why look at statistics that actually matter when there is passer rating! thanks for the laugh. Better than the guy referencing fantasy statistics though. That was gold Oh boy dude. The giants do not pass it as much as other teams. Not to mention they don’t have some of the ol and wr talent that those other teams have so those other stats are not as relevant for comparing qb efficiency or effectiveness. Obviously, you don’t shit about statistics. It’s okay. oh boy indeed. Why dont the Giants pass it? haha two top 5 calibre OT and still nothing at OL. Tired excuses teams are shutting down the run and focusing on it. So why? Let see how much is going on in there. How much is just you being emotional?
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Post by GameTime on Dec 4, 2022 18:50:45 GMT -5
guys......ite THE WHOLE offense.
players, scheme, play calling, execution, clock management. ....it all ****ing sucks right now.
Singling out players is useless unless you include every one of one if them. No one is stepping up....NOT ONE.
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Post by Roosevelt on Dec 4, 2022 18:54:25 GMT -5
Watching a game for 3.5 hours only for it to end in a tie is one of the weirdest feelings ever. You see the players walking off. They both looked like they lost They certainly didn't win.
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Post by GameTime on Dec 4, 2022 18:56:21 GMT -5
You see the players walking off. They both looked like they lost They certainly didn't win. another game the offense just sucked overall. They just cant score points.
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jros
Special Teams
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Post by jros on Dec 4, 2022 19:10:48 GMT -5
Yeah okay. From an objective point of view, The QB is absolutely not the issue, lol. He’s been very good this year. . He’s one of the issues. And compared to yesteryear he’s been very good. But that’s in comparison to himself. Relatively speaking he’s been above average. Although it’s encouraging to see him using his legs again. Because when it’s solely on his arm, it gets ugly… or dink and dunk. [ Okay, you just said he’s been playing above average relatively. So you made my point. You can debate whether he’s been above average, good, or very good. But then you say he’s been one of the issues which is somewhat contradictory. When it comes to dinka and dunks, he’s playing within the system so you can’t oenalize him for that. When you say it gets ugly when he relies solely on his arm, not sure what that means exactly. The giants don’t have the talent on wr or ol for him to solely rely on his arm. When it comes to mid to deeper throws, jones is pretty accurate but people tend to only remember the bad throws. We can check the stats on that. I would say the giants don’t have the wr or ol talent to throw 50 times a game and throw lots of deep throws.
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Post by ocgiant on Dec 4, 2022 19:34:18 GMT -5
We deserved to lose that game Some players need to get their head out of their ass. Critical juncture of the game the Offense has the ball and James and SB actually bump directly into each other in the back field that is just one example
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Post by Roosevelt on Dec 4, 2022 19:49:08 GMT -5
They certainly didn't win. another game the offense just sucked overall. They just cant score points.
With an Oline that's inconsistent at best, along with Slayton as our #1 receiver and a tentative Saquon; Jones doesn't have much help out there.
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Post by Roosevelt on Dec 4, 2022 19:53:08 GMT -5
We deserved to lose that game Some players need to get their head out of their ass. Critical juncture of the game the Offense has the ball and James and SB actually bump directly into each other in the back field that is just one example Great example.
And the coaching staff deserves heat as well for running plays that called on only 10 players.
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jros
Special Teams
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Post by jros on Dec 4, 2022 20:01:54 GMT -5
[ Okay, you just said he’s been playing above average relatively. So you made my point. You can debate whether he’s been above average, good, or very good. But then you say he’s been one of the issues which is somewhat contradictory. No it's not. When you're only an above average QB you lead offenses to 20 points nearly every game of your career. That is an issue. He is an issue just like our interior OL. Just like our WRs. The system is catered to put Jones (and everyone) in the best position to succeed. Jones has demonstrated that he is not a pocket passer who can sling it downfield. He struggles with it. See the last series of regulation (excluding the kneel down). See... there's a glaring exclusion from that assessment in my opinion. The Giants don't have the talent on WR, IOL and QB to be an effective passing/scoring offense. Just like broncos don’t have the talent at qb with Russell Wilson to be an effective passing offensive, right? Russell Wilson is just an average and was always just an average qb , right? The supporting cast matters even for the “elite qbs” like Aaron Rodgers. This year proves it with Green Bay. the eye test tells you that jones can be a very good qb that can lead the giants to a Super Bowl with a good supporting cast. Not elite supporting cast, but just good. You clearly have confirmation bias which is human nature, but it prevents you from having a more objective view. There is many good qbs that have made boneheaded plays at times whether we are talking about interceptions or clock management. Daniels jones is 100 percent not the issue this year and hias been the reason they won several of the games. You’re 1000 percent wrong about jones being an issue. Now if you say he’ll never be a Josh allen or Patrick maholmes, I would agree with that.
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Post by McCherry on Dec 4, 2022 20:13:14 GMT -5
another game the offense just sucked overall. They just cant score points.
With an Oline that's inconsistent at best, along with Slayton as our #1 receiver and a tentative Saquon; Jones doesn't have much help out there.
The OL is just awful again. Pressure all day. They cant put together one solid performance. Every week it's either this guy or that one having a bad game. Interior is just a mess. Barkley is either injured or just shot physically. He's averaging just 3.3 YPC over the last 5 games. Some of that has to do with the OL, but he has lost all the burst he was showing earlier this season. Franchise tag? Eesh, I think that ship is sailing.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 4, 2022 20:15:50 GMT -5
You see the players walking off. They both looked like they lost They certainly didn't win. Washington came out ahead in this game, they go on their bye we play the Eagles I screwed up tough it was the Vikings more then likely we will be at 7-5-1 tied for the next meeting. We see them in 2 weeks after their Bye at there place after they had 2 weeks to work on what went right and wrong against us this time. We come in after another physical NFC east matchup. Think Riveria played his cards right for the Tie.
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Post by Roosevelt on Dec 4, 2022 20:45:38 GMT -5
With an Oline that's inconsistent at best, along with Slayton as our #1 receiver and a tentative Saquon; Jones doesn't have much help out there.
The OL is just awful again. Pressure all day. They cant put together one solid performance. Every week it's either this guy or that one having a bad game. Interior is just a mess. Barkley is either injured or just shot physically. He's averaging just 3.3 YPC over the last 5 games. Some of that has to do with the OL, but he has lost all the burst he was showing earlier this season. Franchise tag? Eesh, I think that ship is sailing.
That defensive front is pretty good so let's give them that.
Let's be honest about Saquon. We came off the bye and we ran him what 35 or 36 times? The guy has not been the same since.
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jros
Special Teams
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Post by jros on Dec 4, 2022 20:50:21 GMT -5
Just like broncos don’t have the talent at qb with Russell Wilson to be an effective passing offensive, right? Russell Wilson is just an average and was always just an average qb , right? The supporting cast matters even for the “elite qbs” like Aaron Rodgers. This year proves it with Green Bay. the eye test tells you that jones can be a very good qb that can lead the giants to a Super Bowl with a good supporting cast. Not elite supporting cast, but just good. You clearly have confirmation bias which is human nature, but it prevents you from having a more objective view. There is many good qbs that have made boneheaded plays at times whether we are talking about interceptions or clock management. Daniels jones is 100 percent not the issue this year and hias been the reason they won several of the games. You’re 1000 percent wrong about jones being an issue. Now if you say he’ll never be a Josh allen or Patrick maholmes, I would agree with that. I know it's convenient to throw out the Russell Wilson and Rodgers examples.... but by doing so you're exposing yourself for not even watching a single Broncos game. Russell Wilson is playing like one of the worst QBs in the NFL right now. It has nothing to do with his OL or WRs... it has to do with his play. He flat out sucks this year. And Jerry Jeudy and Cortland Sutton are nothing to sneeze at. Now comes the "eye test" routine. The "eye test" doesn't even come close to seeing Jones as a QB who can "lead" a team to the SB. At best the eye test shows that Jones might be a QB who can ride the coattails of a well built team that can get to the SB. Where do the broncos offensive line rank in qb pressures again? That’s right, 29 . It might be true that Wilson is not playing as well as he in previous years, but to say that his new system and supporting cast isn’t playing a big role is just stupid . I guess Aaron Rodgers is just having an off year, right? Whether we’re talking about eye test or stats like passer rating, expected completion pct,, or 4th quarter winning drives, jones is playing very well. Sorry, but you’re definitely biased and do not have an objective view.
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redeyejedi
Special Teams
Draftbreakdown.com the poster formerly and still is known as Redeyejedi
Posts: 1,108
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Post by redeyejedi on Dec 4, 2022 20:52:04 GMT -5
Tannehill gets 29.5 Million per year, Jimmy G is 27.5 million, Brady 25 milion. Jones is in that range No argument on where he lands in QB rankings, I agree. He’s no Brady but I think he lines up with those other guys. I’m saying I don’t value him at that number. Thats what scares me. Those guys make 30 million so Jones I'm sure expects a co ntract in that range
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Post by ocgiant on Dec 4, 2022 20:53:59 GMT -5
Critical juncture of the game the Offense has the ball and James and SB actually bump directly into each other in the back field that is just one example Great example.
And the coaching staff deserves heat as well for running plays that called on only 10 players. Some one needs to check with the trainers and medical staff to see if they were handing out Dum-Dum pills before this game
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Post by ocgiant on Dec 4, 2022 20:56:08 GMT -5
With an Oline that's inconsistent at best, along with Slayton as our #1 receiver and a tentative Saquon; Jones doesn't have much help out there.
The OL is just awful again. Pressure all day. They cant put together one solid performance. Every week it's either this guy or that one having a bad game. Interior is just a mess. Barkley is either injured or just shot physically. He's averaging just 3.3 YPC over the last 5 games. Some of that has to do with the OL, but he has lost all the burst he was showing earlier this season. Franchise tag? Eesh, I think that ship is sailing. Did Brightwell even have a carry today? He had some nice runs at least to change it up some...
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Post by Sarcasman on Dec 4, 2022 21:02:32 GMT -5
No argument on where he lands in QB rankings, I agree. He’s no Brady but I think he lines up with those other guys. I’m saying I don’t value him at that number. Thats what scares me. Those guys make 30 million so Jones I'm sure expects a co ntract in that range I agree and I’m sure his agent thinks that too. But I don’t think the Giants FO feels the same.
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Post by Roosevelt on Dec 4, 2022 21:08:06 GMT -5
Is it too much to ask from today's players to remain focused throughout a drive?
Are the players that stupid that they don't realize that most people know when they've make a good play?
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 4, 2022 23:02:38 GMT -5
The OL is just awful again. Pressure all day. They cant put together one solid performance. Every week it's either this guy or that one having a bad game. Interior is just a mess. Barkley is either injured or just shot physically. He's averaging just 3.3 YPC over the last 5 games. Some of that has to do with the OL, but he has lost all the burst he was showing earlier this season. Franchise tag? Eesh, I think that ship is sailing.
That defensive front is pretty good so let's give them that.
Let's be honest about Saquon. We came off the bye and we ran him what 35 or 36 times? The guy has not been the same since.
He has a lot of carries on him this years they also are not blocking as good lot of traffic in the back field. never good for an RB or anyone who works in the backfield they need a legit Back that can take 10 to 15 carries when needed if they want to be ground and pound team. All teams with that play that style and even the Giants during the last 2 superbowl runs had horses they had a lead horse but could always play the hot hand for 10 to 15 snaps. defenses today stay fresh in todays NFL, teams don't run 1 guy 400 times anymore anyone is gonna get beat down facing fresh bodies in rotation on D.
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Post by Roosevelt on Dec 4, 2022 23:55:34 GMT -5
That defensive front is pretty good so let's give them that.
Let's be honest about Saquon. We came off the bye and we ran him what 35 or 36 times? The guy has not been the same since.
He has a lot of carries on him this years they also are not blocking as good lot of traffic in the back field. never good for an RB or anyone who works in the backfield they need a legit Back that can take 10 to 15 carries when needed if they want to be ground and pound team. All teams with that play that style and even the Giants during the last 2 superbowl runs had horses they had a lead horse but could always play the hot hand for 10 to 15 snaps. defenses today stay fresh in todays NFL, teams don't run 1 guy 400 times anymore anyone is gonna get beat down facing fresh bodies in rotation on D. It sounds like the Giants could use you as a consultant which of course seems odd considering how many people are now employed by the Giants tasked with doing so many critical things. It’s really amazing how much the game has improved.
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