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Post by ratbastich on Oct 4, 2023 7:53:17 GMT -5
the days of color being an issue with a player in the NFL are long over, talent trumps color... Didn't the NFL some some teams just get sued by a ex coach because of how they were scheduling certain coaches to fit the Rooney rule with no intent to hire them? I think that was Flores wasn't it? The guy who didn't want to play Tua. Not that it should impact anything about his claims. I do remember a lot of people here wanted him as the coach. Also, I don't know if the Giants are concerned about such things...but even though there may not be straight-up racism it is very possible that there could be unrecognized biases that cause them to lean a certain way. Not being in their inner circles or in their heads, we will probably never know. Hell, we had to kick someone off our interview team where I work because of their biases against people who had tattoos. Off tangent like a mother, sorry about that.
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Post by jimmieray on Oct 4, 2023 7:59:51 GMT -5
the days of color being an issue with a player in the NFL are long over, talent trumps color... Didn't the NFL some some teams just get sued by a ex coach because of how they were scheduling certain coaches to fit the Rooney rule with no intent to hire them? I believe our team was named by that Dolphins coach a few years ago as being racist. He also accused their owner of pressuring him to tank for that season. Not sure of what became of that, there was talk of us loosing draft picks over it. I don't doubt there are certain owners in this league that might have reservations on whether a minority coach or even QB could be as "loyal" to their desires as they believe others would be, regardless of the high percentage of minority players.
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Post by bluebuddha on Oct 4, 2023 10:14:57 GMT -5
Didn't the NFL some some teams just get sued by a ex coach because of how they were scheduling certain coaches to fit the Rooney rule with no intent to hire them? I believe our team was named by that Dolphins coach a few years ago as being racist. He also accused their owner of pressuring him to tank for that season. Not sure of what became of that, there was talk of us loosing draft picks over it. I don't doubt there are certain owners in this league that might have reservations on whether a minority coach or even QB could be as "loyal" to their desires as they believe others would be, regardless of the high percentage of minority players. I don't know the details but NFL is a one of the biggest platform and players and coaches will try to use it to thier advantage to change public perception on topics they feel strongly about. The Colin kaepernick debacle was not too long ago either.
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Merlin
Special Teams
Posts: 339
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Post by Merlin on Oct 4, 2023 11:01:18 GMT -5
The fact the Giants haven’t drafted an African American QB doesn’t validate your absurd, and unsubstantiated, claim that the Mara’s are against drafting African American QBs. And there’s nothing “factual” about guessing about the Mara’s philosophies and guessing about the future. It’s nothing but drivel that projects your idiocy and possible racist undertones. You’re coming across as a schmuck. It is a fact The Giants are the last team to start an African American QB. Geno Smith in 2018. It is a fact the Giants have never drafted a black qb. Sure I am making presumations about ownership not wanting a black QB as the face of the franchise. But you cannot deny those facts can you? While that may be true, Giants being the last. Black QBs weren't coming in the league in the multitudes they have been coming in over the last decade or so. There were 7 total starting Black QBs from 94-03 (The 9 year time span time span from Simms to Eli) . From 04-09 there wasn't one single starting black QB in the NFL. So 7 starting Black QBs total over a 15 year time span all from 94-03. Giants drafted Eli Manning who never missed a game until losing his iron man streak to Geno Smith a Black QB which probably needed the approval of Mara. The year they decided to move on from Eli permanently. Jones ended up being better than Haskins so can't say it was due to race more so than him just being the better prospect. Not to mention from 2007-2017 the most powerful man in the org outside of ownership was Jerry Reese, 3rd Black GM in NFL history. Who Mara did choose loyalty over Coughlin. IMO that gives Mara some healthy credibility in this area.
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Post by inconvenientruth on Oct 4, 2023 11:07:15 GMT -5
Instead of resorting to name calling, showing your lack of intelligence,let's have a debate. I gave you factual data on my claim. The fact the Giants haven’t drafted an African American QB doesn’t validate your absurd, and unsubstantiated, claim that the Mara’s are against drafting African American QBs. And there’s nothing “factual” about guessing about the Mara’s philosophies and guessing about the future. It’s nothing but drivel that projects your idiocy and possible racist undertones. You’re coming across as a schmuck. Wait a second, why does everyone always forget about Andre Woodson. University of Kentucky Pretty sure he's Black.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Oct 4, 2023 11:25:12 GMT -5
The fact the Giants haven’t drafted an African American QB doesn’t validate your absurd, and unsubstantiated, claim that the Mara’s are against drafting African American QBs. And there’s nothing “factual” about guessing about the Mara’s philosophies and guessing about the future. It’s nothing but drivel that projects your idiocy and possible racist undertones. You’re coming across as a schmuck. Wait a second, why does everyone always forget about Andre Woodson. University of Kentucky Pretty sure he's Black. Haha holy crap. Completely forgot about him. Myth debunked.
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Modog
Special Teams
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Post by Modog on Oct 4, 2023 18:14:53 GMT -5
It is a fact The Giants are the last team to start an African American QB. Geno Smith in 2018. It is a fact the Giants have never drafted a black qb. Sure I am making presumations about ownership not wanting a black QB as the face of the franchise. But you cannot deny those facts can you? While that may be true, Giants being the last. Black QBs weren't coming in the league in the multitudes they have been coming in over the last decade or so. There were 7 total starting Black QBs from 94-03 (The 9 year time span time span from Simms to Eli) . From 04-09 there wasn't one single starting black QB in the NFL. So 7 starting Black QBs total over a 15 year time span all from 94-03. Giants drafted Eli Manning who never missed a game until losing his iron man streak to Geno Smith a Black QB which probably needed the approval of Mara. The year they decided to move on from Eli permanently. Jones ended up being better than Haskins so can't say it was due to race more so than him just being the better prospect. Not to mention from 2007-2017 the most powerful man in the org outside of ownership was Jerry Reese, 3rd Black GM in NFL history. Who Mara did choose loyalty over Coughlin. IMO that gives Mara some healthy credibility in this area. I know this discussion became a race thing. but I prefixed in my original post that ownership is also against types of personalities.The Giants way... there is reason why people call the Giants, the "accounting firm of NFL"... Ownership wants clean shaven white collar types as the franchise QB. think phil Sims, Eli..Daniel Jones They would never select a Joe Namath or an outspoken type
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Merlin
Special Teams
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Post by Merlin on Oct 4, 2023 20:07:17 GMT -5
While that may be true, Giants being the last. Black QBs weren't coming in the league in the multitudes they have been coming in over the last decade or so. There were 7 total starting Black QBs from 94-03 (The 9 year time span time span from Simms to Eli) . From 04-09 there wasn't one single starting black QB in the NFL. So 7 starting Black QBs total over a 15 year time span all from 94-03. Giants drafted Eli Manning who never missed a game until losing his iron man streak to Geno Smith a Black QB which probably needed the approval of Mara. The year they decided to move on from Eli permanently. Jones ended up being better than Haskins so can't say it was due to race more so than him just being the better prospect. Not to mention from 2007-2017 the most powerful man in the org outside of ownership was Jerry Reese, 3rd Black GM in NFL history. Who Mara did choose loyalty over Coughlin. IMO that gives Mara some healthy credibility in this area. I know this discussion became a race thing. but I prefixed in my original post that ownership is also against types of personalities.The Giants way... there is reason why people call the Giants, the "accounting firm of NFL"... Ownership wants clean shaven white collar types as the franchise QB. think phil Sims, Eli..Daniel Jones They would never select a Joe Namath or an outspoken type Majority of this thought process has derived from Giants drafting Jones over Haskins. But In the last 20 years the Giants have only had 3.5 total QBs. Collins was arrested for DUI and ordered to go to rehab a couple months before the Giants signed him. Warner/Eli forced his way out of being drafted by San Diego, & Jones. In comparison the Cleveland Browns have had 16 different QBs during this same time span. If they didn't land Eli because say Chargers didn't want to trade him or liked another deal better. Giants liked Big Ben as the fall back QB. I'm sure there is some truth to them preferring a more corporate look out and a person with the ability to handle the media well with a corporate touch out of all their players not just QB. But them passing up on a Caleb Williams because he doesn't come off as an accountant. I don't believe that for a second. They have never been in a scenario that I can think of where this was the case. Where they passed on superior talent at QB because he didn't come off corporate enough. With that said I haven't heard much in terms of controversy toward Caleb Williams to even view him in such light.
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 4, 2023 20:10:10 GMT -5
We can't endure another year of this. Take our losses this season. End this please. I can't endure another tank thread. 52 players and many levels of coaches are all going to agree to fail for next year? Maybe in the NBA, but not in the NFL (or MLB)
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Post by Dogecoin on Oct 5, 2023 4:58:28 GMT -5
The comment is somewhat misleading as he could play anywhere, and his highlight reel is just sick
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 5, 2023 6:34:43 GMT -5
you're referring to the Rooney Rule, that has nothing to do with the players, that rule is about hiring coaches....
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Post by cruzsoldier on Oct 5, 2023 6:51:38 GMT -5
Didn't the NFL some some teams just get sued by a ex coach because of how they were scheduling certain coaches to fit the Rooney rule with no intent to hire them? I think that was Flores wasn't it? The guy who didn't want to play Tua. Not that it should impact anything about his claims. I do remember a lot of people here wanted him as the coach. Also, I don't know if the Giants are concerned about such things...but even though there may not be straight-up racism it is very possible that there could be unrecognized biases that cause them to lean a certain way. Not being in their inner circles or in their heads, we will probably never know. Hell, we had to kick someone off our interview team where I work because of their biases against people who had tattoos. Of tangent like a mother, sorry about that. If I recall correctly Bill Belichik sent a text message to Brian Flores by mistake thinking it was Joe Judge congratulating him on getting the Giants head coaching job a day prior to Brian Flores head coaching interview with the Giants. The Giants were just trying to satisfy the Rooney rule so it looked really bad. 1. You should hire whoever you want it’s your (company/team) but it looked really bad the way the Giants handled that being a so called “class organization “ I mean how many players that were washed up have we let stay to finish their contracts when they should have been dump years earlier? I expected better from them but maybe I am being naive and that’s not how it works around the league.
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Post by Rangers13 on Oct 5, 2023 7:49:31 GMT -5
The comment is somewhat misleading as he could play anywhere, and his highlight reel is just sick looks like Jones 😵💫😟
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Post by Dogecoin on Oct 5, 2023 7:52:37 GMT -5
The comment is somewhat misleading as he could play anywhere, and his highlight reel is just sick looks like Jones 😵💫😟 More like Allen, Mahomes and Lamar all rolled into one. A little unfair to isolate Jones, unless a team already has an elite QB on a long term deal (about 5 teams), he'd be the starter on every single team.
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Post by ratbastich on Oct 5, 2023 11:11:09 GMT -5
I think that was Flores wasn't it? The guy who didn't want to play Tua. Not that it should impact anything about his claims. I do remember a lot of people here wanted him as the coach. Also, I don't know if the Giants are concerned about such things...but even though there may not be straight-up racism it is very possible that there could be unrecognized biases that cause them to lean a certain way. Not being in their inner circles or in their heads, we will probably never know. Hell, we had to kick someone off our interview team where I work because of their biases against people who had tattoos. Of tangent like a mother, sorry about that. If I recall correctly Bill Belichik sent a text message to Brian Flores by mistake thinking it was Joe Judge congratulating him on getting the Giants head coaching job a day prior to Brian Flores head coaching interview with the Giants. The Giants were just trying to satisfy the Rooney rule so it looked really bad. 1. You should hire whoever you want it’s your (company/team) but it looked really bad the way the Giants handled that being a so called “class organization “ I mean how many players that were washed up have we let stay to finish their contracts when they should have been dump years earlier? I expected better from them but maybe I am being naive and that’s not how it works around the league. Unfortunately, unless a Mara or Tisch get drunk and have a tirade that is recorded, we may never know.
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southerner
Starter
Bearer of Bad News
Posts: 4,192
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Post by southerner on Oct 6, 2023 3:03:37 GMT -5
Last night’s win for the Bears over Washington gets the Giants closer to Caleb Williams!
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Post by Rangers13 on Oct 6, 2023 8:23:08 GMT -5
Vegas win total is down to 5.5
Jets game is likely big. Washington looked awful. Carolina has their QB.
Regardless, imo I see way too many highlights from these QB prospects displaying their athletic ability with far more than 2/3 seconds to find a target. Don’t care about scrambling around and delivering a ball 5-7 seconds after running around.
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wtfjjk
Special Teams
Posts: 1,192
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Post by wtfjjk on Oct 6, 2023 11:55:08 GMT -5
The comment is somewhat misleading as he could play anywhere, and his highlight reel is just sick First time seeing him so I'm not going to evaluate him but I'd rather he didn't do jump throws and scramble too much like that. That's a 2 year career if he tries that in the NFL.
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Post by Nite on Oct 6, 2023 12:10:55 GMT -5
I'm sure Caleb would be amazing behind this line. I'd honestly love to see Jones get traded, tired of seeing him get hit 20 times a game. Sign a veteran QB and rebuild the oline. No one wants him dude How many teams paying him $40MM a year? For what? If Mara is willing to restructure his contract to make him palatable there will be teams that are willing to trade for him. Especially ones with decent OL and good qb coach... SF comes to mind. If Purdy goes down don't be surprised to see them make an offer for DJ. He would excel there
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Post by inconvenientruth on Oct 6, 2023 12:15:35 GMT -5
No one wants him dude How many teams paying him $40MM a year? For what? If Mara is willing to restructure his contract to make him palatable there will be teams that are willing to trade for him. Especially ones with decent OL and good qb coach... SF comes to mind. If Purdy goes down don't be surprised to see them make an offer for DJ. He would excel there he would do great there. problem is opportunity cost. SF doesn't need to pay a QB $40MM to produce nominally better statistics than Purdy who's on a 7th round rookie contract. Its bad business.
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Post by Nite on Oct 6, 2023 12:21:08 GMT -5
If Mara is willing to restructure his contract to make him palatable there will be teams that are willing to trade for him. Especially ones with decent OL and good qb coach... SF comes to mind. If Purdy goes down don't be surprised to see them make an offer for DJ. He would excel there he would do great there. problem is opportunity cost. SF doesn't need to pay a QB $40MM to produce nominally better statistics than Purdy who's on a 7th round rookie contract. Its bad business. Thats why if they are going to trade him they need to restructure his contract stretch it out 4 more year with more upfront bonuses lower cost that is cap friendly. If not SF then perhaps Ten or AZ or perhaps the Steelers. You never know what some teams are thinking and value
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Post by Rangers13 on Oct 6, 2023 15:15:13 GMT -5
"NFC North News @nfcnorthnewss · Oct 2 BREAKING: Caleb Williams says he can make more money returning to USC next season then as a rookie in the NFL and says he can pick what team he wants to go to because of that.😳
Caleb’s only 5 team he would play for are the #Cowboys, #Raiders, #Vikings, #Giants, and #49ers"
Seen this rumor making the rounds. Any thoughts?
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mj312
Special Teams
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Post by mj312 on Oct 6, 2023 15:20:35 GMT -5
I'm sure Caleb would be amazing behind this line. I'd honestly love to see Jones get traded, tired of seeing him get hit 20 times a game. Sign a veteran QB and rebuild the oline. You haven't seen enough? 3 pts with 9 minutes in the 4th... We have all seen enough but why is it just jones? The whole team sucks . I’ve seen enough of daboll having temper tantrums on the sideline , and schoen barely doing anything .. I’ve also seen enough of Andrew Thomas milking his fat hamstring for 3 weeks standing on the sideline and saquon being hurt every time you look at him wrong .. Jones is no doubt in a slump and there is something clearly going on but I’m not willing to pile on the only guy out there getting his head kicked in at least making an effort . Jones has not played well , I’m not making excuses but this whole team is the the biggest group of soft cry babies and every single scout we have should be fired .. It’s laughable that Barkley thinks he’s worth 16 million..
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Modog
Special Teams
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Post by Modog on Oct 6, 2023 18:14:13 GMT -5
You haven't seen enough? 3 pts with 9 minutes in the 4th... We have all seen enough but why is it just jones? The whole team sucks . I’ve seen enough of daboll having temper tantrums on the sideline , and schoen barely doing anything .. I’ve also seen enough of Andrew Thomas milking his fat hamstring for 3 weeks standing on the sideline and saquon being hurt every time you look at him wrong .. Jones is no doubt in a slump and there is something clearly going on but I’m not willing to pile on the only guy out there getting his head kicked in at least making an effort . Jones has not played well , I’m not making excuses but this whole team is the the biggest group of soft cry babies and every single scout we have should be fired .. It’s laughable that Barkley thinks he’s worth 16 million.. Don't worry eventually you will see DJ for what he is as well.
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Post by SG88 on Oct 6, 2023 18:23:02 GMT -5
"NFC North News @nfcnorthnewss · Oct 2 BREAKING: Caleb Williams says he can make more money returning to USC next season then as a rookie in the NFL and says he can pick what team he wants to go to because of that.😳 Caleb’s only 5 team he would play for are the #Cowboys, #Raiders, #Vikings, #Giants, and #49ers" Seen this rumor making the rounds. Any thoughts? When does a player have to declare for the draft? Is it before or after the draft order is in place?
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Post by bluebuddha on Oct 6, 2023 18:56:20 GMT -5
Haha you must be a new Giants fan. Maras will never draft a black QB. They much rather draft another guy that looks like Eli Manning (without playing like him) If someone else drafts him and trades him to the Giants on draft day will that work? Just try to find a solution to this conundrum.
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Post by IrishMike on Oct 6, 2023 21:22:41 GMT -5
F Caleb Williams and F USC.
Tanking for anyone is a bad idea. Remember when people were so mad we didn't lose and get Chase Young...well we won the game and ended up with one of the best LTs in the league (maybe he should not play ST).
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Post by moecoastie on Oct 6, 2023 22:06:40 GMT -5
As disappointed as I feel atm, it's way too early for this crazy talk.
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Post by Kase1 on Oct 7, 2023 7:33:04 GMT -5
You haven't seen enough? 3 pts with 9 minutes in the 4th... We have all seen enough but why is it just jones? The whole team sucks . I’ve seen enough of daboll having temper tantrums on the sideline , and schoen barely doing anything .. I’ve also seen enough of Andrew Thomas milking his fat hamstring for 3 weeks standing on the sideline and saquon being hurt every time you look at him wrong .. Jones is no doubt in a slump and there is something clearly going on but I’m not willing to pile on the only guy out there getting his head kicked in at least making an effort . Jones has not played well , I’m not making excuses but this whole team is the the biggest group of soft cry babies and every single scout we have should be fired .. It’s laughable that Barkley thinks he’s worth 16 million.. You're making fun of AT?!?!? You DO realize he's arguably the best LT in the game, right?
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Post by Kase1 on Oct 7, 2023 7:35:18 GMT -5
The comment is somewhat misleading as he could play anywhere, and his highlight reel is just sick That was quite the impressive highlight reel, seems he's already used to scrambling, so he will fit right in. How is he with cycling his reads and surveying the field?? Seems his pocket awareness is already tenfold what Jones is
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