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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2023 11:01:15 GMT -5
He's not cut out for NY. I can see him succeeding in a small market, but he would be a disaster in NY. Why? Because of one clip of him in the stands with his mom? Prior to that you had no opinion of this guy’s “mental toughness.” Neither did I. Because before that moment I didn't have a reason to question it. Now I do, so I am. This isn't a black or white thing and I'm not saying he isn't mentally tough. I'm saying it raises questions and is concerning. Hopefully that concern is without merit, but nobody here will be in a position to find out until he succeeds or doesn't in the NFL. Take Penix for example. All those injuries he has racked up is a major concern. But what isn't is his mental toughness, because it takes a tough minded person to come back time after time, through all that rehab work and play and do so at a high level. None of us will know what these players are like beyond a few snippets here and there. Some of those things will be a moment, or a bad judgement; others will be signals of underlying issues. We don't know which is which. Williams gave a sign of a possible problem, I just hope my team knows whether it was a moment or a problem if they choose to select him. You don't and neither do I.
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Post by SG88 on Nov 14, 2023 11:01:29 GMT -5
He plays college football in Los Angeles for a team that is more popular there than both NFL teams combined. When did LA become a small market? There are definitely some arguments for not wanting him here. This is not one of them. In terms of sports, Southern California is a zero market. It's a bit different comparing that to a professional athlete in NY. Especially one carrying the burden of being the saviour of the NY Giants. What?!!! So the Los Angeles Dodgers, Los Angeles Lakers, and USC Football are chopped liver? I couldn't disagree anymore with your assessment of LA sports. I just mentioned 3 teams alone with national brands and fans everywhere.
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Post by SG88 on Nov 14, 2023 11:06:00 GMT -5
Why? Because of one clip of him in the stands with his mom? Prior to that you had no opinion of this guy’s “mental toughness.” Neither did I. Because before that moment I didn't have a reason to question it. Now I do, so I am. This isn't a black or white thing and I'm not saying he isn't mentally tough. I'm saying it raises questions and is concerning. Hopefully that concern is without merit, but nobody here will be in a position to find out until he succeeds or doesn't in the NFL. Take Penix for example. All those injuries he has racked up is a major concern. But what isn't is his mental toughness, because it takes a tough minded person to come back time after time, through all that rehab work and play and do so at a high level. None of us will know what these players are like beyond a few snippets here and there. Some of those things will be a moment, or a bad judgement; others will be signals of underlying issues. We don't know which is which. Williams gave a sign of a possible problem, I just hope my team knows whether it was a moment or a problem if they choose to select him. You don't and neither do I. I get some of the concerns. We are going to be picking very high and this is the biggest decision this team has to make for probably the next decade of Giants football. I don't have an issue with this being brought up for discussion. Just don't tell me that he can't handle a big market when he plays football for the most popular football team in Los Angeles, CA.
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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2023 11:08:16 GMT -5
Jayden Daniels is unlikely to get out of the top 10 picks once the draft rolls around. Idk. If enough talking heads talk about him he will be pushed up the public draft boards. He looks thin almost a wr body.I read that Bryce Young weighs more than him so he needs to pack on some weight before the combine. He is still a bit of a project but I can see why he might be considered top 10. All it takes if for one team to like him. Hopefully it does happen and better prospects gets pushed down for our next pick. Just my November prediction on what transpires in the draft. He's got all the skills NFL teams want from a QB. With Williams and Maye off the board, someone will nab him early. IDK if he is the 3rd best, 1st best or 84th best QB. I just think he will be the 3rd taken and it will be early.
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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2023 11:10:35 GMT -5
Neither did I. Because before that moment I didn't have a reason to question it. Now I do, so I am. This isn't a black or white thing and I'm not saying he isn't mentally tough. I'm saying it raises questions and is concerning. Hopefully that concern is without merit, but nobody here will be in a position to find out until he succeeds or doesn't in the NFL. Take Penix for example. All those injuries he has racked up is a major concern. But what isn't is his mental toughness, because it takes a tough minded person to come back time after time, through all that rehab work and play and do so at a high level. None of us will know what these players are like beyond a few snippets here and there. Some of those things will be a moment, or a bad judgement; others will be signals of underlying issues. We don't know which is which. Williams gave a sign of a possible problem, I just hope my team knows whether it was a moment or a problem if they choose to select him. You don't and neither do I. I get some of the concerns. We are going to be picking very high and this is the biggest decision this team has to make for probably the next decade of Giants football. I don't have an issue with this being brought up for discussion. Just don't tell me that he can't handle a big market when he plays football for the most popular football team in Los Angeles, CA. Not what I said. I said it is concerning and it is. Nothing more than that.
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Post by inconvenientruth on Nov 14, 2023 11:11:38 GMT -5
If the Giants pick #1 I believe the pick is Williams. He has everything you want. Elite arm, elite ball placement, elite arm talent. He has things that need work, but massive upside, and already a much better baseline than any QB we have on the roster. Him and Maye are both upper tier prospects that teams will trade up for, and my guess for #1 and #2 regardless which teams slot there I don’t think Williams translates well to the pros. I’m not pretending to be a scout or claiming to be an arm chair GM “I just watched 30 hours of tape yesterday” - there’s just a feeling I have that I don’t like. Thats fair, his current offence is like Jason Garretts unimaginative crap. The caveat? every play he plays hero ball and makes plays, and man he can do that. BUT, playing within structure/timing is key in the NFL Hard to know what you're getting, what I can say is that he can make all the throws, from every arm angle with ease/placement/velocity. Never quite seen anything like it. He also used to play RB and well, runs like that as well. Laterally very explosive. Personally, I like Drake Maye as he has similar arm talent, is bigger, and plays within structure/timing. Thats why I believe here in November that Maye goes #1. Though most still think Caleb.
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Post by TCHOF on Nov 14, 2023 11:20:51 GMT -5
I don’t think Williams translates well to the pros. I’m not pretending to be a scout or claiming to be an arm chair GM “I just watched 30 hours of tape yesterday” - there’s just a feeling I have that I don’t like. Thats fair, his current offence is like Jason Garretts unimaginative crap. The caveat? every play he plays hero ball and makes plays, and man he can do that. BUT, playing within structure/timing is key in the NFL Hard to know what you're getting, what I can say is that he can make all the throws, from every arm angle with ease/placement/velocity. Never quite seen anything like it. He also used to play RB and well, runs like that as well. Laterally very explosive. Personally, I like Drake Maye as he has similar arm talent, is bigger, and plays within structure/timing. Thats why I believe here in November that Maye goes #1. Though most still think Caleb. The comforting part is that if we pick#2 behind the Bears, we know that they will pick the wrong guy, leaving the right guy for us.
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Post by McCherry on Nov 14, 2023 11:26:23 GMT -5
In terms of sports, Southern California is a zero market. It's a bit different comparing that to a professional athlete in NY. Especially one carrying the burden of being the saviour of the NY Giants. What?!!! So the Los Angeles Dodgers, Los Angeles Lakers, and USC Football are chopped liver? I couldn't disagree anymore with your assessment of LA sports. I just mentioned 3 teams alone with national brands and fans everywhere. That's great, but I live here. In LA, being a local sports fan is nothing more than a fashion statement. In NY it's a way of life. Sports in general barely hits the radar In SoCal. Whatever you believe about the LA market, there are legitimate concerns on and off the field with Williams.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Nov 14, 2023 12:44:07 GMT -5
The mom thing is completely irrelevant to me. Such a lame attack by media and fans. At least it shows he’s passionate and cares. I honestly don’t like any of these QBs coming out. But if we are to take one the two most important attributes are arm and brain. Jones has tools but he clearly doesn’t have the brain (processing, football IQ) to take his NFL game to the next level. OK, I disagree. It shows a weak person. Or at least a moment of weakness at minimum. Most players who compete at a high level are passionate and care, they wouldn't be competing at a high level if they didn't. So why don't we see players cuddling in their mom's lap and crying after losses every single week? If it is just a sign of passion and caring? So my hope if the Giants do take him is it was a moment of weakness. It happens, and this one was public, but if you see that have to question his mental toughness. I am not close enough to him to know, which is why I said concerned. Jamarcus Russell competed at the highest collegiate level. Dude couldn’t have cared any less or shown any less passion in the NFL.
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Post by jaymas on Nov 14, 2023 12:45:49 GMT -5
Thats fair, his current offence is like Jason Garretts unimaginative crap. The caveat? every play he plays hero ball and makes plays, and man he can do that. BUT, playing within structure/timing is key in the NFL Hard to know what you're getting, what I can say is that he can make all the throws, from every arm angle with ease/placement/velocity. Never quite seen anything like it. He also used to play RB and well, runs like that as well. Laterally very explosive. Personally, I like Drake Maye as he has similar arm talent, is bigger, and plays within structure/timing. Thats why I believe here in November that Maye goes #1. Though most still think Caleb. The comforting part is that if we pick#2 behind the Bears, we know that they will pick the wrong guy, leaving the right guy for us. *round of applause*
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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2023 12:56:55 GMT -5
OK, I disagree. It shows a weak person. Or at least a moment of weakness at minimum. Most players who compete at a high level are passionate and care, they wouldn't be competing at a high level if they didn't. So why don't we see players cuddling in their mom's lap and crying after losses every single week? If it is just a sign of passion and caring? So my hope if the Giants do take him is it was a moment of weakness. It happens, and this one was public, but if you see that have to question his mental toughness. I am not close enough to him to know, which is why I said concerned. Jamarcus Russell competed at the highest collegiate level. Dude couldn’t have cared any less or shown any less passion in the NFL. You found a player. Cool. I certainly hope you don't actually think that disputes the general point I was making. Since I said most, you will need to find more than one. About 51% of all people who compete at a high level across all sports and competitions. How many players have you seen cry in Mom's lap after losing a game in division 1 NCAA football? A lot of them? Ok, Williams showed behavior that is an exception to the general rule and should be looked into. Russell's not caring being an exception as well, probably should have been looked into more thoroughly, might have turned out better for the Raiders had they made a point to do so.
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Post by DJones19 on Nov 14, 2023 13:22:32 GMT -5
Caleb has talent but what concerns me is that he holds on to the ball too long. He has one of the longest time to throws in the pocket in all of college football...up near 3.5 seconds.
He's a fumbler on top of that and often turns his eyes away from the defense and runs backwards in the pocket. Just hard to calculate how that translates to the pros, especially to a team that has a bad offensive line.
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Post by repeatchamps on Nov 14, 2023 13:25:50 GMT -5
Caleb has talent but what concerns me is that he holds on to the ball too long. He has one of the longest time to throws in the pocket in all of college football...up near 3.5 seconds. He's a fumbler on top of that and often turns his eyes away from the defense and runs backwards in the pocket. Just hard to calculate how that translates to the pros, especially to a team that has a bad offensive line. The list of cons on Caleb Williams continues to grow and it really has turned me off to him. I sure hope the Giants aren't faced with an option to draft him. That's my worst nightmare for this upcoming draft.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Nov 14, 2023 13:57:51 GMT -5
Jamarcus Russell competed at the highest collegiate level. Dude couldn’t have cared any less or shown any less passion in the NFL. You found a player. Cool. I certainly hope you don't actually think that disputes the general point I was making. Since I said most, you will need to find more than one. About 51% of all people who compete at a high level across all sports and competitions. How many players have you seen cry in Mom's lap after losing a game in division 1 NCAA football? A lot of them? Ok, Williams showed behavior that is an exception to the general rule and should be looked into. Russell's not caring being an exception as well, probably should have been looked into more thoroughly, might have turned out better for the Raiders had they made a point to do so. Cool.
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Post by SG88 on Nov 14, 2023 14:12:07 GMT -5
What?!!! So the Los Angeles Dodgers, Los Angeles Lakers, and USC Football are chopped liver? I couldn't disagree anymore with your assessment of LA sports. I just mentioned 3 teams alone with national brands and fans everywhere. That's great, but I live here. In LA, being a local sports fan is nothing more than a fashion statement. In NY it's a way of life. Compared to NY, sports in general barely hits the radar out here. The biggest sports fans I know are transplants who root for their home teams. Whatever you believe, I would have concerns about Williams being the right fit in NY. There are concerns and he's not my first choice. I live around here too, and you can't go a city block without running into fans of the teams I've mentioned. There certainly is plenty of pressure to perform and win. The fans out here are passionate about their local teams. The passion is just different. They just aren't super butt hurt when they do stink, mainly because there is plenty more to do after the game is over. Beaches, sunshine, bike rides, cookouts in December, etc. NY and LA are the two largest cities and media markets in the country. Each city has more than their fair share of transplants as well. Most of the big cities in this country are like that. There aren't a lot of road fans filling up stadiums in USC, Lakers, or Dodgers games. You know this.
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Post by idkaname on Nov 14, 2023 14:17:38 GMT -5
yep, injured again and his luck with dropped INTs is ceasing...pretty much experiencing the same regression as Geno (turnover luck last year, dropped picks etc) It's only a matter of time before Hurts takes more damage an is A) missing games B) playing even worse because he can't run the ball I'm assuming you never actually watch Jalen Hurts play, he's basically a Jones clone. Look at first read - throw or tuck and run. When he's forced to stay in the pocket, he looks so lost. I challenge you to find 3 plays (his whole career) of him looking through his progressions. Y ou are hilariously sanctimonious for being wrong so often. All of my closest friends are Eagles fans, I watch the Eagles every week unless the game conflicts with the Giants. Live about an hour north of Philly. If there is a team I know the 2nd most about in the NFL, it's the Eagles. On Hurts it's wild how incorrect you are. 1. He doesn't miss games. And even when he plays a little banged up, it doesn't affect his performance that much, if at all. 2. Jones and Hurts could not be more different. The dude is on time with throws, often throws with great anticipation and his ball placement is elite tier. He actually throws guys open. It has certainly helped him to be able to develop with such elite skills talent, but those traits are clear as day. You describing Jalen Hurts as a one read and run QB is like you only watched him in 2021. The quality gap between DJ and Hurts is very large. 3. Basic stats perspective, he's going to throw for over 30 TDs and over 4500 yards if he doesn't sit a game or two at the end of the year and is leading one of the best offenses in the league. He regressed to the mean somewhat on ints, but he's also going to throw 10 or more passing TDs while potentially eclipsing his rushing TD total from last year. I genuinely don't think it's possible for you to be more wrong about Jalen Hurts. At the most basic level, imagine saying a guy is holding a team back that just made the SB, was one bounce away from winning it and the dude you're criticizing played well...and then is leading one of the best teams in the league the following year. Always the same comebacks. "You're always wrong" "I know more than you" "This will happen" Funny. No posts / threads / quotes in the "replied to" comment of mine are ever brought into the conversation and disproven and it's just a general "I disagree so I'm going to say you know nothing about football and are always wrong" All I did was state facts to support my opinion and you have yet to present me 3 plays of Hurts going through multiple progressions, should be a simple task no? Your rebuttal is a bunch of presumptions and prorated stats, but I'm totally off base? I can easily argue, with support, that the Eagles are winning in spite of Hurts and not because of him. and you act as if he blew DJs passing stats/play out of the water last year? DJ: 15/5 JH: 22/6 lol now compare the rosters and it's pretty clear he's not that dominant. You're praising a guy that's never thrown for more than 22 TDs and now assuming he's going to throw for 30 TDs when last year he had 14 TD passes (compared to 15 this year) after 9 games. Yeah, I'm soooo delusional
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Post by jaymas on Nov 14, 2023 14:51:13 GMT -5
Y ou are hilariously sanctimonious for being wrong so often. All of my closest friends are Eagles fans, I watch the Eagles every week unless the game conflicts with the Giants. Live about an hour north of Philly. If there is a team I know the 2nd most about in the NFL, it's the Eagles. On Hurts it's wild how incorrect you are. 1. He doesn't miss games. And even when he plays a little banged up, it doesn't affect his performance that much, if at all. 2. Jones and Hurts could not be more different. The dude is on time with throws, often throws with great anticipation and his ball placement is elite tier. He actually throws guys open. It has certainly helped him to be able to develop with such elite skills talent, but those traits are clear as day. You describing Jalen Hurts as a one read and run QB is like you only watched him in 2021. The quality gap between DJ and Hurts is very large. 3. Basic stats perspective, he's going to throw for over 30 TDs and over 4500 yards if he doesn't sit a game or two at the end of the year and is leading one of the best offenses in the league. He regressed to the mean somewhat on ints, but he's also going to throw 10 or more passing TDs while potentially eclipsing his rushing TD total from last year. I genuinely don't think it's possible for you to be more wrong about Jalen Hurts. At the most basic level, imagine saying a guy is holding a team back that just made the SB, was one bounce away from winning it and the dude you're criticizing played well...and then is leading one of the best teams in the league the following year. Always the same comebacks. "You're always wrong" "I know more than you" "This will happen" Funny. No posts / threads / quotes in the "replied to" comment of mine are ever brought into the conversation and disproven and it's just a general "I disagree so I'm going to say you know nothing about football and are always wrong" All I did was state facts to support my opinion and you have yet to present me 3 plays of Hurts going through multiple progressions, should be a simple task no? Your rebuttal is a bunch of presumptions and prorated stats, but I'm totally off base? I can easily argue, with support, that the Eagles are winning in spite of Hurts and not because of him. and you act as if he blew DJs passing stats/play out of the water last year? DJ: 15/5 JH: 22/6 lol now compare the rosters and it's pretty clear he's not that dominant. You're praising a guy that's never thrown for more than 22 TDs and now assuming he's going to throw for 30 TDs when last year he had 14 TD passes (compared to 15 this year) after 9 games. Yeah, I'm soooo delusional Educate yourself. About 5:30 is the start of analysis on a play where Hurts throws with great anticipation and accuracy. Also, you ended your post stating you "assume I don't watch Hurts" based on my opinion. Maybe let that sink in when you reread your first comments. The whole thing is a great watch though! I'm sure it's not the first QB school on Hurts too. Might even be one from the Superbowl.
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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2023 14:58:18 GMT -5
Always the same comebacks. "You're always wrong" "I know more than you" "This will happen" Funny. No posts / threads / quotes in the "replied to" comment of mine are ever brought into the conversation and disproven and it's just a general "I disagree so I'm going to say you know nothing about football and are always wrong" All I did was state facts to support my opinion and you have yet to present me 3 plays of Hurts going through multiple progressions, should be a simple task no? Your rebuttal is a bunch of presumptions and prorated stats, but I'm totally off base? I can easily argue, with support, that the Eagles are winning in spite of Hurts and not because of him. and you act as if he blew DJs passing stats/play out of the water last year? DJ: 15/5 JH: 22/6 lol now compare the rosters and it's pretty clear he's not that dominant. You're praising a guy that's never thrown for more than 22 TDs and now assuming he's going to throw for 30 TDs when last year he had 14 TD passes (compared to 15 this year) after 9 games. Yeah, I'm soooo delusional Educate yourself. About 5:30 is the start of analysis on a play where Hurts throws with great anticipation and accuracy. Also, you ended your post stating you "assume I don't watch Hurts" based on my opinion. Maybe let that sink in when you reread your first comments. Hate that Hurts is an Eagle. Was a big fan of his when he came out. Just one of those guys that consistently gets better year after year. And I don't mean stats, I mean performance. He just consistently improves on areas he needs to improve. I think he will be playing in this league a while. Even after he's not a real running threat anymore, he'll still be a top end QB; because he improved everywhere else.
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Post by jaymas on Nov 14, 2023 15:02:24 GMT -5
Educate yourself. About 5:30 is the start of analysis on a play where Hurts throws with great anticipation and accuracy. Also, you ended your post stating you "assume I don't watch Hurts" based on my opinion. Maybe let that sink in when you reread your first comments. Hate that Hurts is an Eagle. Was a big fan of his when he came out. Just one of those guys that consistently gets better year after year. And I don't mean stats, I mean performance. He just consistently improves on areas he needs to improve. I think he will be playing in this league a while. Even after he's not a real running threat anymore, he'll still be a top end QB; because he improved everywhere else. Well said and I agree. Any QB that has his anticipatory abilities and accuracy plus ball placement...those are skills that keep you around for a while. His arm strength is definitely on the average side, but it has not mattered one bit. With legs as strong as his, I'm sure that helps a ton.
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Post by McCherry on Nov 14, 2023 15:05:03 GMT -5
That's great, but I live here. In LA, being a local sports fan is nothing more than a fashion statement. In NY it's a way of life. Compared to NY, sports in general barely hits the radar out here. The biggest sports fans I know are transplants who root for their home teams. Whatever you believe, I would have concerns about Williams being the right fit in NY. There are concerns and he's not my first choice. I live around here too, and you can't go a city block without running into fans of the teams I've mentioned. There certainly is plenty of pressure to perform and win. The fans out here are passionate about their local teams. The passion is just different. They just aren't super butt hurt when they do stink, mainly because there is plenty more to do after the game is over. Beaches, sunshine, bike rides, cookouts in December, etc. NY and LA are the two largest cities and media markets in the country. Each city has more than their fair share of transplants as well. Most of the big cities in this country are like that. There aren't a lot of road fans filling up stadiums in USC, Lakers, or Dodgers games. You know this. It's not the size of the market I'm talking about. Sports culture out here isn't the same. The media, fans, and overall pressure to perform isn't remotely close to what it is in NY. LA is full of bandwagon fans, everyone buys hats when the team is good, nobody cares when a team isn't doing well. In NY they live and die with the success of their teams. Looking at the abuse Jones and even Eli experienced during their careers, I don't think Williams temperament is cut out for the scrutiny.
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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2023 15:16:43 GMT -5
I live around here too, and you can't go a city block without running into fans of the teams I've mentioned. There certainly is plenty of pressure to perform and win. The fans out here are passionate about their local teams. The passion is just different. They just aren't super butt hurt when they do stink, mainly because there is plenty more to do after the game is over. Beaches, sunshine, bike rides, cookouts in December, etc. NY and LA are the two largest cities and media markets in the country. Each city has more than their fair share of transplants as well. Most of the big cities in this country are like that. There aren't a lot of road fans filling up stadiums in USC, Lakers, or Dodgers games. You know this. It's not the size of the market I'm talking about. Sports culture out here isn't the same. The media, fans, and overall pressure to perform isn't remotely close to what it is in NY. LA is full of bandwagon fans, everyone buys hats when the team is good, nobody cares when a team isn't doing well. In NY they live and die with the success of their teams. Looking at the abuse Jones and even Eli experienced during their careers, I don't think Williams temperament is cut out for the scrutiny. I think the pressure of the NY market is overblown a bit. There are a lot of markets with similar pressure to perform. I can't comment on LA, never been there. I am concerned about Williams playing in any market based if that episode was an indication of his mental toughness and not just a moment of poor judgment.
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Post by McCherry on Nov 14, 2023 15:26:33 GMT -5
It's not the size of the market I'm talking about. Sports culture out here isn't the same. The media, fans, and overall pressure to perform isn't remotely close to what it is in NY. LA is full of bandwagon fans, everyone buys hats when the team is good, nobody cares when a team isn't doing well. In NY they live and die with the success of their teams. Looking at the abuse Jones and even Eli experienced during their careers, I don't think Williams temperament is cut out for the scrutiny. I think the pressure of the NY market is overblown a bit. There are a lot of markets with similar pressure to perform. I can't comment on LA, never been there. I am concerned about Williams playing in any market based if that episode was an indication of his mental toughness and not just a moment of poor judgment. NY is absolutely the biggest media market in the country. That alone adds pressure you don't get anywhere else. There are maturity issues and other concerns about Williams outside of that incident. I don't think he is a real discussion because I doubt we'll end up with the #1 overall pick, but I'm fine with whatever happens and whatever decision we make.
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Post by ocgiant on Nov 14, 2023 15:29:10 GMT -5
In terms of sports, Southern California is a zero market. It's a bit different comparing that to a professional athlete in NY. Especially one carrying the burden of being the saviour of the NY Giants. What?!!! So the Los Angeles Dodgers, Los Angeles Lakers, and USC Football are chopped liver? I couldn't disagree anymore with your assessment of LA sports. I just mentioned 3 teams alone with national brands and fans everywhere. SoFi Stadium comes to mind... Ducks & Kings Hockey and Angels (get to see Yankees), UCLA Bruins Rose Bowl, plus BMO Stadium - LAFC (for soccer fans) and LA hosting the 2028 Summer Olympics so pretty diversifed market for a ton of sports in So Cal. Plus, who can forget Battle of the Network Stars from Pepperdine University in Malibu, Gabe Kaplan, Ed Asner even Scot Baio! LOL...
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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2023 15:50:39 GMT -5
I think the pressure of the NY market is overblown a bit. There are a lot of markets with similar pressure to perform. I can't comment on LA, never been there. I am concerned about Williams playing in any market based if that episode was an indication of his mental toughness and not just a moment of poor judgment. NY is absolutely the biggest media market in the country. That alone adds pressure you don't get anywhere else. There are maturity issues and other concerns about Williams outside of that incident. I don't think he is a real discussion because I doubt we'll end up with the #1 overall pick, but I'm fine with whatever happens and whatever decision we make. Biggest does not always mean more pressure. You think DeVito is under a lot of pressure right now? Heck no, the fans have already checked out this season and his expectations are low. He might not be the first pick if teams believe he has maturity issues. So if we have the 2nd pick, he is in the discussion. Or we have the third and Maye and Harrison go in the top two, he is in the discussion. We don't know, a lot will happen between now and the draft. If the Giants draft him, I'm all aboard on him though. I'll trust that they vetted the concerns and the kid has incredible talent. But he is in the discussion until he isn't. If you are looking down the barrel of a top 5 pick, every prospect is in the discussion until they are taken in the 4 picks before you. Or is he worth trading up for from 6 and he makes it to 3. Look at all the discussion in this past draft about Stroud falling, he didn't and it worked out for the Texans so far. Lots of questions about him as well. I never get too married to my own ideas about prospects, where they should go, where they will go, etc.... I've seen way too many unexpected things in the draft to call anything a lock before it actually happens.
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Post by McCherry on Nov 14, 2023 16:04:02 GMT -5
NY is absolutely the biggest media market in the country. That alone adds pressure you don't get anywhere else. There are maturity issues and other concerns about Williams outside of that incident. I don't think he is a real discussion because I doubt we'll end up with the #1 overall pick, but I'm fine with whatever happens and whatever decision we make. Biggest does not always mean more pressure. You think DeVito is under a lot of pressure right now? Heck no, the fans have already checked out this season and his expectations are low.He might not be the first pick if teams believe he has maturity issues. So if we have the 2nd pick, he is in the discussion. Or we have the third and Maye and Harrison go in the top two, he is in the discussion. We don't know, a lot will happen between now and the draft. If the Giants draft him, I'm all aboard on him though. I'll trust that they vetted the concerns and the kid has incredible talent. But he is in the discussion until he isn't. If you are looking down the barrel of a top 5 pick, every prospect is in the discussion until they are taken in the 4 picks before you. Or is he worth trading up for from 6 and he makes it to 3. Look at all the discussion in this past draft about Stroud falling, he didn't and it worked out for the Texans so far. Lots of questions about him as well. I never get too married to my own ideas about prospects, where they should go, where they will go, etc.... I've seen way too many unexpected things in the draft to call anything a lock before it actually happens. It's a little different for the #3 practice squad QB. You think the #1 or #2 overall pick won't come under immense pressure? Especially considering our recent history, replacing Jones, carrying the fate or our HC and GM. Not to mention every Giant fans expectations of them to save this franchise. It will be as difficult of a situation as any pro in any sport could face. Mental toughness will be scrutinized by our evaluation process as much as talent. With any QB we consider. Again, I'm fine with whoever we go with.
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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2023 16:24:26 GMT -5
Biggest does not always mean more pressure. You think DeVito is under a lot of pressure right now? Heck no, the fans have already checked out this season and his expectations are low.He might not be the first pick if teams believe he has maturity issues. So if we have the 2nd pick, he is in the discussion. Or we have the third and Maye and Harrison go in the top two, he is in the discussion. We don't know, a lot will happen between now and the draft. If the Giants draft him, I'm all aboard on him though. I'll trust that they vetted the concerns and the kid has incredible talent. But he is in the discussion until he isn't. If you are looking down the barrel of a top 5 pick, every prospect is in the discussion until they are taken in the 4 picks before you. Or is he worth trading up for from 6 and he makes it to 3. Look at all the discussion in this past draft about Stroud falling, he didn't and it worked out for the Texans so far. Lots of questions about him as well. I never get too married to my own ideas about prospects, where they should go, where they will go, etc.... I've seen way too many unexpected things in the draft to call anything a lock before it actually happens. It's a little different for the #3 practice squad QB. You think the #1 or #2 overall pick won't come under immense pressure? Especially considering our recent history, replacing Jones, carrying the fate or our HC and GM. Not to mention every Giant fans expectations of them to save this franchise. It will be as difficult of a situation as any pro in any sport could face. Mental toughness will be scrutinized by our evaluation process as much as talent. With any QB we consider. Again, I'm fine with whoever we go with. A #1 or #2 overall pick will be under a lot of pressure to perform in most if not all NFL team markets; particularly if that player is a QB. I agree that mental toughness is very important aspect of a player, I just don't think it is significantly more important in NY than it is in Philadelphia or Cleveland or Buffalo. I'm sure you can find a few places where it might be less important, but not a place where it won't be important. Playing in the NFL is mentally tough no matter where you are. We like to to say "getting paid millions to play a game," but any highly competitive environment is tough and those who are not mentally tough will not succeed in the NFL. Every player in the NFL is physically gifted to one degree or another, but the successful ones will mostly be mentally tough individuals.
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 14, 2023 18:33:18 GMT -5
If AZ is up for trading Kyler Murray, would you do it? Maybe as a backup QB if DJ retires. Would rather Mayfield if we are trying failed #1 QB picks. Little early in their careers to call them "failed" IMO
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 14, 2023 18:34:46 GMT -5
Can't say I'd be upset if we got Harrison 2.0 and a 2nd tier QB like Nix, Daniels, or even Penix if he somehow falls to the 2nd If Penix makes it there, it will likely be due serious concerns about injury. Bo Nix might make it there, depending on the QB needs in the mid to late first round. Daniels will be QB3 and a top 10 pick by the draft. I think you can count on Ewers being there in the 2nd and not a terrible choice. He needs some work but has all the arm talent you need from your QB. I would say they go off the board in this order: 1/2-Williams/Maye 3-Daniels 4/5/6-Penix/McCarthy/Nix 7/8-Ewers/Leonard Due purely by numbers, a unexpected one could very likely still be there at the top of the 2nd. Probably would trade up into the end of the first to get him to secure the 5th yr option. Other QBs that might make a push to group with the tail end of that list by draft day include Jordan Travis, KJ Jefferson, Cameron Ward, Tyler Van Dyke, Joe Milton & Sam Hartman. You'll find draft gurus out there pounding the table for one of these guys, but ultimately I don't think any of them will land in the 1st or 2nd rounds. If Travis or Ward are sitting there for their third and the Giants for some reason haven't drafted a QB yet, I'd nab one of those two there. SOMEONE has been doing their research...
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Post by Kase1 on Nov 14, 2023 18:36:04 GMT -5
If AZ is up for trading Kyler Murray, would you do it? 1. at what cost? 2. I've always been against QBs that run...for the situation they all end up in...injured. I guess in short, no. We need to get back to a field general, pocket passing. Don't care what's "modern"...imo a running QB is to mask a bad Oline and if you have a good Oline, they'll hold you back somewhat (Hurts....the name fits well) Pocket statues also get injured, it's not restricted to "running qbs"
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Post by Analyst on Nov 14, 2023 18:36:11 GMT -5
Maybe as a backup QB if DJ retires. Would rather Mayfield if we are trying failed #1 QB picks. Little early in their careers to call them "failed" IMO Well, maybe not Murray yet, but Mayfield is on team 4 in 5 years. As a #1 overall pick, that's a bust. I still think he would be a decent option here though. He has talent.
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