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Post by bavarobeast on Mar 27, 2024 12:12:01 GMT -5
It's a shame Michigan played suck a easy schedule to give themselves the best shot at a title. Look at what happened 2 years ago when the Giants had an easy schedule since it faked out their experts at scouting into thinking Jones was good. The same can be true with McCarthy. Penn State and Ohio State were easy?? And Alabama and Washington!
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2024 12:14:47 GMT -5
Penn State and Ohio State were easy?? thing is he went 7-8 for 60 yards vs Penn State. He made no mistakes and won yet b/c it was an old school fball game the team won. Tough to judge Game management. Play not to lose. . Out of all the QBs in the conversation at the top of the draft. If were to draft a QB. I like Penix with pick 47. (he may be there.)
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2024 12:16:50 GMT -5
I don't know if he does????? He threw 18 passes in the championship game completed 8, for 140 yards. 56%. He never threw for 3000 in a season. Was 35th in passing yards. To me that reeks of game manager not QB. Was that attributable to the QB or the system? He was. He fit that system. The history of the NFL shows game mangers can win. But not SBs. The QB need that gunslinger attitude to win that game.
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2024 12:19:26 GMT -5
I don't know if he does????? He threw 18 passes in the championship game completed 8, for 140 yards. 56%. He never threw for 3000 in a season. Was 35th in passing yards. To me that reeks of game manager not QB. I understand - Run dominant teams rarely have a QB that throws for 3000 yards.I factor in Michigan had one better than average WR - Roman Wilson. That’s it. Considering JJ’s limited weapons in a game that level I think he did great. There were also 2-maybe 3 drops in that game. Loveland and Morgan I believe. With weapons JJ will catch fire in the NFL. You just summed it up. That QB IMO is not a risk to take at the top of the draft.
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Post by DonnieYen on Mar 27, 2024 12:20:00 GMT -5
Penn State and Ohio State were easy?? Do you think they won those games because of McCarthy? I guess they are good teams and I'm not interested in looking up how tough their schedules were but those games were won due to the defense of Michigan not the arm of McCarthy. As a Maryland fan I can tell you Big Ten Conference is a really tough conference way though then the ACC where Maryland used to be so Michigan and every team in the conference has a tough schedule. And yes JJ was a big reason they won last year if you think he is a back up in the NFL or a spot starter or not good your not paying attention. Why do you guys think Scouts and GMs love him? Yeah we the fans know better then NFL scouts and GMs that's why we are employed by the NFL 🙄
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Post by lt56 on Mar 27, 2024 12:22:54 GMT -5
A Major Reach as far as who you would be taking him over and it wouldn't be because you have him as the 6th Best Player in this entire draft, you would be taking him out of pure desperation for a QB and you just HOPE that he can be even just a Decent QB you can build around
I'm just not a fan of passing on Nabers or Odunze to do and I'm really against giving up future picks to move up and go get him
If Recent Rumors that Washington might take him at #2 and Daniels falls and the Patriots are also rumored to be OK with trading out then I would go get Daniels at 3 who I think could be the CJ Stroud of this draft
Trade for Brandon Aiyuk or Tee Higgins for a 2025 Conditional 3rd Round Pick based on their Production then yeah I think most would be totally fine with them getting that QB either at #6 or going all in and trading up for Daniels or Maye or JJ
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Post by bavarobeast on Mar 27, 2024 12:23:08 GMT -5
I don’t usually spend as much time posting as I did today but it was a blast defending my favorite QB in the draft.
The only thing that worries me is I think Dunka Schoen might have a crush on me 😂
✌🏻
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 27, 2024 12:26:04 GMT -5
thing is he went 7-8 for 60 yards vs Penn State. He made no mistakes and won yet b/c it was an old school fball game the team won. Tough to judge Game management. Play not to lose. . Out of all the QBs in the conversation at the top of the draft. If we’re to draft a QB. I like Penix with pick 47. (he may be there.) that Conference is so wide open idk who is good. I like Penix more than Nix yet his injury history is scary. If he had a healthy history I think he gets drafted in the Top 15. Might still go that early to one of these teams.
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2024 12:32:41 GMT -5
When he is compared to the other Michigan QB. Take all the NFL knowledge that is known about him out of the equation. Just by his NCAA accomplishments alone. What is he? The 2000 NFL draft said he is pick 199. McCarthy is the same as that QB in stats. Could he be that QB? Who knows? The odds are high probable he won't be. That guy was a day 3 pick and McCarthy is a top 5 pick? IDK. JJ McCarthyThe other guy
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 27, 2024 12:36:27 GMT -5
Penn State and Ohio State were easy?? Do you think they won those games because of McCarthy? I guess they are good teams and I'm not interested in looking up how tough their schedules were but those games were won due to the defense of Michigan not the arm of McCarthy. Now you're moving the goal post
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 27, 2024 12:50:46 GMT -5
When he is compared to the other Michigan QB. Take all the NFL knowledge that is known about him out of the equation. Just by his NCAA accomplishments alone. What is he? The 2000 NFL draft said he is pick 199. McCarthy is the same as that QB in stats. Could he be that QB? Who knows? The odds are high probable he won't be. That guy was a day 3 pick and McCarthy is a top 5 pick? IDK. JJ McCarthyThe other guything is, Brady came off the bench and won multiple games when Drew Henson flopped
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2024 12:53:51 GMT -5
When he is compared to the other Michigan QB. Take all the NFL knowledge that is known about him out of the equation. Just by his NCAA accomplishments alone. What is he? The 2000 NFL draft said he is pick 199. McCarthy is the same as that QB in stats. Could he be that QB? Who knows? The odds are high probable he won't be. That guy was a day 3 pick and McCarthy is a top 5 pick? IDK. JJ McCarthyThe other guything is, Brady came off the bench and won multiple games when Drew Henson flopped true.
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Post by inthezone on Mar 27, 2024 12:54:44 GMT -5
Do you think they won those games because of McCarthy? I guess they are good teams and I'm not interested in looking up how tough their schedules were but those games were won due to the defense of Michigan not the arm of McCarthy. As a Maryland fan I can tell you Big Ten Conference is a really tough conference way though then the ACC where Maryland used to be so Michigan and every team in the conference has a tough schedule. And yes JJ was a big reason they won last year if you think he is a back up in the NFL or a spot starter or not good your not paying attention. Why do you guys think Scouts and GMs love him? Yeah we the fans know better then NFL scouts and GMs that's why we are employed by the NFL 🙄 I disagree that JJ was a big reason they won along with thinking their schedule wasn't real easy. The hit or miss on prospects from these GMs and scouts you are praising is not very good so if you think otherwise you're the one not paying attention.
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Post by inthezone on Mar 27, 2024 12:57:33 GMT -5
Do you think they won those games because of McCarthy? I guess they are good teams and I'm not interested in looking up how tough their schedules were but those games were won due to the defense of Michigan not the arm of McCarthy. Now you're moving the goal post If you say so I guess you're a big McCarthy fan since he beat a couple of good college teams on the way to a championship.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 27, 2024 13:00:03 GMT -5
Penn State and Ohio State were easy?? thing is he went 7-8 for 60 yards vs Penn State. He made no mistakes and won yet b/c it was an old school fball game the team won. Tough to judge Agreed ... but the question wasn't about JJ's contribution to that win (not much as you said), it was about Michigan's schedule being "easy". I am frankly just as concerned about the 3 INT's against Bowling Green. That sort of threw me for a loop during the season as a Michigan fan
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Post by inthezone on Mar 27, 2024 13:00:13 GMT -5
Game management. Play not to lose. . Out of all the QBs in the conversation at the top of the draft. If we’re to draft a QB. I like Penix with pick 47. (he may be there.) that Conference is so wide open idk who is good. I like Penix more than Nix yet his injury history is scary. If he had a healthy history I think he gets drafted in the Top 15. Might still go that early to one of these teams. I think the way he played in the championship game when he faced a real defense and was pressured would make him a 2nd day prospect even without the injury history.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 27, 2024 13:01:09 GMT -5
thing is, Brady came off the bench and won multiple games when Drew Henson flopped true. but I agree. Brady came off the bench and won games yet went later in the draft. This kid kinda went along for the ride and really didn’t have to put the team on his shoulders. vs Washington, he went 10-18 for 140 yards.
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Post by inthezone on Mar 27, 2024 13:02:25 GMT -5
I don’t usually spend as much time posting as I did today but it was a blast defending my favorite QB in the draft. The only thing that worries me is I think Dunka Schoen might have a crush on me 😂 ✌🏻 You really should be worrying about the kiss of death you put on McCarthy like you did with Haskins.
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Post by inthezone on Mar 27, 2024 13:04:38 GMT -5
but I agree. Brady came off the bench and won games yet went later in the draft. This kid kinda went along for the ride and really didn’t have to put the team on his shoulders. vs Washington, he went 10-18 for 140 yards. He did get a mulligan with his 1st pass against Bama and must have done something special in that overtime win.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 27, 2024 13:04:51 GMT -5
Now you're moving the goal post If you say so I guess you're a big McCarthy fan since he beat a couple of good college teams on the way to a championship. You said that Michigan's schedule was easy and I pointed out that Penn State and Ohio State were not easy games. Not sure how you take that to mean that I am a "big McCarthy fan". I liked McCarthy as Michigan's QB, but I don't have any clue how good (or not good) he will be in the NFL. (News alert: Neither does anyone on this MB).
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Post by inthezone on Mar 27, 2024 13:06:41 GMT -5
If you say so I guess you're a big McCarthy fan since he beat a couple of good college teams on the way to a championship. You said that Michigan's schedule was easy and I pointed out that Penn State and Ohio State were not easy games. Not sure how you take that to mean that I am a "big McCarthy fan". I liked McCarthy as Michigan's QB, but I don't have any clue how good (or not good) he will be in the NFL. (News alert: Neither does anyone on this MB). Two good teams out of 11 makes the schedule a tough one? Reminds me of the 2022 Giants and that playoff winning team.
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2024 13:10:52 GMT -5
but I agree. Brady came off the bench and won games yet went later in the draft. This kid kinda went along for the ride and really didn’t have to put the team on his shoulders. vs Washington, he went 10-18 for 140 yards. There is a lot saying not to pick this kid in the 1st round.
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2024 13:16:55 GMT -5
If you say so I guess you're a big McCarthy fan since he beat a couple of good college teams on the way to a championship. You said that Michigan's schedule was easy and I pointed out that Penn State and Ohio State were not easy games. Not sure how you take that to mean that I am a "big McCarthy fan". I liked McCarthy as Michigan's QB, but I don't have any clue how good (or not good) he will be in the NFL. ( News alert: Neither does anyone on this MB). Agreed. (Perdy is a prime example) That is not the question that should be asked. I think this is the question. Is he single digit draft pick talent? I have trouble see anything is his game that suggests he is. But that is me.
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Aris
Special Teams
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Post by Aris on Mar 27, 2024 13:33:42 GMT -5
Well they all start in the NCAA 🤷♂️ How else do you analyze them? Emotionally Mentally Physically JJ checks all the boxes. Emotionally - never seen JJ get rattled, lose his composure or breakdown. ( I can’t say the same about Caleb Williams) Mentally - JJ meditates on the field before every game. His mind is fine tuned daily especially on Game Day. They’ve even done some special stories on it if you haven’t checked those out they’re very interesting. Physically no red flags. No need to go further TEM you are a Top Shelf part of this board.You deserve respect from me regardless of what your opinion’s are. You may hate to hear that - not many people want to be respected by someone who is disliked by a majority but…..😀 I don't know if he does????? He threw 18 passes in the championship game completed 8, for 140 yards. 56%. He never threw for 3000 in a season. Was 35th in passing yards. To me that reeks of game manager not QB. Uh oh...sounds like our little debate when I wanted to draft Josh Allen, and you went college numbers crazy all on me.
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 27, 2024 13:34:45 GMT -5
You said that Michigan's schedule was easy and I pointed out that Penn State and Ohio State were not easy games. Not sure how you take that to mean that I am a "big McCarthy fan". I liked McCarthy as Michigan's QB, but I don't have any clue how good (or not good) he will be in the NFL. ( News alert: Neither does anyone on this MB). Agreed. (Perdy is a prime example) That is not the question that should be asked. I think this is the question. Is he single digit draft pick talent? I have trouble see anything is his game that suggests he is. But that is me. I agree too many games where they won without him doing much. His oline won the best oline for 2 years in a row. He is not going to have that luxury here nor have an aboveo average running game. It will be parity at the next level. He will have to carry the load eventually which is something he did not have to do in college not even in the Championship game or from the games I watched. *edit: I am not saying he is bad . I am just saying I don't think he can fix the Giants offensive issue from what I have seen from him. Also Maye looks more like the QBs Schoen and Daboll have on this roster than anyone else especially when comparing to Josh Allen.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 27, 2024 13:44:41 GMT -5
You said that Michigan's schedule was easy and I pointed out that Penn State and Ohio State were not easy games. Not sure how you take that to mean that I am a "big McCarthy fan". I liked McCarthy as Michigan's QB, but I don't have any clue how good (or not good) he will be in the NFL. (News alert: Neither does anyone on this MB). Two good teams out of 11 makes the schedule a tough one? Reminds me of the 2022 Giants and that playoff winning team. You got me there … Michigan’s first championship season in 25+ years was exactly like the Giants one-win playoff season in 2022 🙄
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2024 13:53:33 GMT -5
I don't know if he does????? He threw 18 passes in the championship game completed 8, for 140 yards. 56%. He never threw for 3000 in a season. Was 35th in passing yards. To me that reeks of game manager not QB. Uh oh...sounds like our little debate when I wanted to draft Josh Allen, and you went college numbers crazy all on me. I always use numbers. What do you see in his game that warrants a top 5-6 pick?
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Post by inthezone on Mar 27, 2024 14:01:22 GMT -5
Two good teams out of 11 makes the schedule a tough one? Reminds me of the 2022 Giants and that playoff winning team. You got me there … Michigan’s first championship season in 25+ years was exactly like the Giants one-win playoff season in 2022 🙄 You are bazar at times. Enjoy the rest of your day!
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cdngfan
Starter
Posts: 3,757
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Post by cdngfan on Mar 27, 2024 14:31:48 GMT -5
If 90% of your opinion is from watching JJ play in games, then you know nothing. You can have an opinion, what’s the point of being on a message board without opinions. But let’s not pretend we have the faintest idea of what we’re talking about.
We’re picking lottery numbers and arguing about who picked the right ones before the draw. NFL teams invest tens of millions of dollars into accurately predicting what a player will be in the NFL, and for 1st rd QBs in particular they get it wrong 60-70% of the time.
How so? If you're not watching game film what are you basing your opinion on? Numbers never paint a whole picture, especially for a QB who plays in a system like Michigan's.
While I agree the draft can be a crap shoot, and most fans don't have the faintest idea about certain things like contracts, evaluating talent isn't as difficult as the Giants have made it out to be over the last 10+ years. I honestly think some of us could've done a better job drafting talent than these last few regimes. We've been comically bad, particularly after round-2.
The fact that the Giants have sucked at it doesn’t mean we’re good at it as fans. If watching game film is “most” of scouting due diligence, then NFL franchises are waisting a lot of time and money on their scouting operations. syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1950498-an-insiders-guide-into-the-nfl-scouting-process.amp.html
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2024 14:56:25 GMT -5
How so? If you're not watching game film what are you basing your opinion on? Numbers never paint a whole picture, especially for a QB who plays in a system like Michigan's.
While I agree the draft can be a crap shoot, and most fans don't have the faintest idea about certain things like contracts, evaluating talent isn't as difficult as the Giants have made it out to be over the last 10+ years. I honestly think some of us could've done a better job drafting talent than these last few regimes. We've been comically bad, particularly after round-2.
The fact that the Giants have sucked at it doesn’t mean we’re good at it as fans. If watching game film is “most” of scouting due diligence, then NFL franchises are waisting a lot of time and money on their scouting operations. syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1950498-an-insiders-guide-into-the-nfl-scouting-process.amp.html That article told exactly what the problem is. There is no definitive process. It is more PFF-ing it than science. It there is no set parameters that each scout adheres to in the eval process. Then there is no continuity in the conclusion. If there is no continuity. That leaves a gaping hole for F-ups. And explains why the Bears only won 3 playoff games in the past 23 years. This is most teams.
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