|
Post by redbeardxxv on Aug 19, 2019 17:13:02 GMT -5
So we certainly shouldn’t be getting out the anointing oils at this point, but I did start the wonder - has a QB come in and looked as good as Jones has and then turned out to be a bust? I suppose the real question is, “is there any meaning to his start’? Leaf had a great preseason. Peyton did not. There's a scary fact for ya...
|
|
|
Post by dannydimes8 on Aug 19, 2019 17:18:13 GMT -5
He’s facing 2nd and 3rd teamers. Look up stats guys like Mike Glennon, Brett Hundley, Ryan Finley, Matt Barkley are putting up in these games. It’s better then him sucking, but it’s like minor league football. Borderline meaningless. And he has 2 turnovers in a 1/2 of work. When he gets in real games his career begins. Rest of this is TBD training ground stuff. Can’t be analyzed. He faced some first string guys his first preseason series. Dont try to downplay his progress please. With that name i didnt expect this post I love Jones. I like how he’s carried himself, I like the accuracy, I like that he’s athletic. I liked the pick. I put 0 stock in preseason games that’s all I’m saying. It’s vanilla looks played primarily by backup players. If bad QBs can put up great stats in these games it throws it all out the window. Look up the box scores from this week. Backup QBs tore it up.
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Aug 19, 2019 17:23:57 GMT -5
Browning Nagle comes to mind. And if you remember the name, you're old like me. I remember those years. The Jets had Browning Nagle and we had Dave Brown. The best QB in NY was Charlie Ward who played for the Knicks at the time.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 17:24:40 GMT -5
He faced some first string guys his first preseason series. Dont try to downplay his progress please. With that name i didnt expect this post I love Jones. I like how he’s carried himself, I like the accuracy, I like that he’s athletic. I liked the pick. I put 0 stock in preseason games that’s all I’m saying. It’s vanilla looks played primarily by backup players. If bad QBs can put up great stats in these games it throws it all out the window. Look up the box scores from this week. Backup QBs tore it up. Well thats the thing, one should not look at the numbers, but actually watch the games and see how it was done and how the QB looked throwing the ball. one could dump it off for 80 yards in a series also.
|
|
|
Post by dannydimes8 on Aug 19, 2019 17:32:44 GMT -5
I love Jones. I like how he’s carried himself, I like the accuracy, I like that he’s athletic. I liked the pick. I put 0 stock in preseason games that’s all I’m saying. It’s vanilla looks played primarily by backup players. If bad QBs can put up great stats in these games it throws it all out the window. Look up the box scores from this week. Backup QBs tore it up. Well thats the thing, one should not look at the numbers, but actually watch the games and see how it was done and how the QB looked throwing the ball. one could dump it off for 80 yards in a series also. Agreed and he’s been accurate. However you take a pass like the TD v the Jets. He stared the WR down. That could very well be an INT in a real game situation. He has the tools. He’s gonna make mistakes all young QBs do. I look forward to seeing him in the regular season. At that point no one will remember nor care about anything going on now. Preseason football sucks, luckily we are closing in on the real thing.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Aug 19, 2019 21:17:35 GMT -5
I don't remember Mark Sanchez in preseason but he did look pretty good in his first two seasons. Sure he made mistakes, but he bounced back from them and they won a good share of games. I thought Ryan and the Jets did him no favors in helping him develop. And not to change the subject, but how many times would fans tell us that we would be in quarterback hell after Eli? It sure is not looking that way. I’ll admit Rosey that I was one of the people that were and kinda still is (he has looked good don’t get me wrong) saying we’ll be in QB hell after Eli not because I’m a homer but because statistically going from one franchise QB to another usually takes time. I mean look at how long it took the giants between Simms and Eli
I respect your honesty, but the thing is we've been in QB hell with Eli for years.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming Eli solely. I know Oline played a huge part and I think McAdouche did as well, but that doesn't change the fact that we have been just as bad with Eli at the helm as we were with Dave Brown, Graham, Maddox, etc.
|
|
|
Post by nygiantsfan1029 on Aug 19, 2019 22:43:46 GMT -5
I’ll admit Rosey that I was one of the people that were and kinda still is (he has looked good don’t get me wrong) saying we’ll be in QB hell after Eli not because I’m a homer but because statistically going from one franchise QB to another usually takes time. I mean look at how long it took the giants between Simms and Eli
I respect your honesty, but the thing is we've been in QB hell with Eli for years.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming Eli solely. I know Oline played a huge part and I think McAdouche did as well, but that doesn't change the fact that we have been just as bad with Eli at the helm as we were with Dave Brown, Graham, Maddox, etc.
I get that and you're right. Eli hasn't done any favors for this team in the 7 years either. Alls I mean is that just because we have a fresh face in the wings doesnt mean that will anytime soon. Ive liked what Ive seen from Jones and really hope he is the next franchise QB. Im just not ready to anoint as a franchise QB off 2 preseason games
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Aug 19, 2019 22:53:50 GMT -5
I’ll admit Rosey that I was one of the people that were and kinda still is (he has looked good don’t get me wrong) saying we’ll be in QB hell after Eli not because I’m a homer but because statistically going from one franchise QB to another usually takes time. I mean look at how long it took the giants between Simms and Eli
I respect your honesty, but the thing is we've been in QB hell with Eli for years.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming Eli solely. I know Oline played a huge part and I think McAdouche did as well, but that doesn't change the fact that we have been just as bad with Eli at the helm as we were with Dave Brown, Graham, Maddox, etc.
Really?
|
|
soflo
Special Teams
Posts: 1,718
|
Post by soflo on Aug 19, 2019 23:33:33 GMT -5
So we certainly shouldn’t be getting out the anointing oils at this point, but I did start the wonder - has a QB come in and looked as good as Jones has and then turned out to be a bust? I suppose the real question is, “is there any meaning to his start’? I don't know but most Giant fans will look pretty stupid going from killing him, to praising him, and then back to killing him. I feel like I've seen enough to believe he's the real deal, but anything's possible.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Aug 19, 2019 23:42:46 GMT -5
The level of competition doesn't minimize Jones's impressive accuracy and timing on a number of throws around the field. Second string defenses don't increase your accuracy, touch, or zip.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Aug 19, 2019 23:46:28 GMT -5
I’ll admit Rosey that I was one of the people that were and kinda still is (he has looked good don’t get me wrong) saying we’ll be in QB hell after Eli not because I’m a homer but because statistically going from one franchise QB to another usually takes time. I mean look at how long it took the giants between Simms and Eli
we have been just as bad with Eli at the helm as we were with Dave Brown, Graham, Maddox, etc.
You have an awful memory.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 20, 2019 5:10:00 GMT -5
He faced some first string guys his first preseason series. Dont try to downplay his progress please. With that name i didnt expect this post I love Jones. I like how he’s carried himself, I like the accuracy, I like that he’s athletic. I liked the pick. I put 0 stock in preseason games that’s all I’m saying. It’s vanilla looks played primarily by backup players. If bad QBs can put up great stats in these games it throws it all out the window. Look up the box scores from this week. Backup QBs tore it up. I dont put ZERO stock in it, as I am intrigued. His ball location looked solid so far in the minimal attempts. And when he is throwing to guys like Bennie Fowler and Alonzo Russell, who are covered by 2nd or 3rd string DBs, it kinda evens out. Some of the passes were on the money regardless. And also things like progressions and timing and awareness can be seen in a meaningless preseason game. Those 2 fumbles were bad. The forst one he was rushing to get the play off though because of the play before being a questionable catch IMO. And he pulled out too soon. The second one, that was a lack of awareness you have to hope gets better with time. Our backup OL messed up blocking the backup pass rushers. Things go ugly. All you can do is take those positives and negatives and look for those situations again in game 3. See if he learned.
|
|
|
Post by ukgiantsfan on Aug 20, 2019 5:33:55 GMT -5
Yep ........ another chap from Duke wearing #17 springs to mind His rookie year was in 1992 indeed it was ....and i still wear the scars .....his name should not be mentioned !
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Aug 20, 2019 5:50:11 GMT -5
So we certainly shouldn’t be getting out the anointing oils at this point, but I did start the wonder - has a QB come in and looked as good as Jones has and then turned out to be a bust? I suppose the real question is, “is there any meaning to his start’? RGIII looked amazing his rookie year. Lots of things lead to someone being a bust. Is Luck considered a bust?
Overall I think it is good that Jones has started off well. It does not ensure success but it is a leg up on looking poor. Haskins and Murray both look like they need a bunch of work to get to the next level. Jones has things to work on but looks a lot closer to being an NFL QB. This does not ensure future success though.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Aug 20, 2019 6:02:12 GMT -5
I respect your honesty, but the thing is we've been in QB hell with Eli for years. If you truly believe that then you are fooling yourself.
I'm not defending Eli but by most accounts he has been a 20-25 ranked QB. Think back to the Dave Brown/Danny Kannel/Kent Graham years. That is QB hell. QB Hell is when you have a guy as the starting QB who should not be a starter in the NFL. Even bad Eli has been one of the top 32 QBs in the world. That isn't hell.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Aug 20, 2019 6:05:20 GMT -5
So we certainly shouldn’t be getting out the anointing oils at this point, but I did start the wonder - has a QB come in and looked as good as Jones has and then turned out to be a bust? I suppose the real question is, “is there any meaning to his start’? RGIII looked amazing his rookie year. Lots of things lead to someone being a bust. Is Luck considered a bust?
Overall I think it is good that Jones has started off well. It does not ensure success but it is a leg up on looking poor. Haskins and Murray both look like they need a bunch of work to get to the next level. Jones has things to work on but looks a lot closer to being an NFL QB. This does not ensure future success though.
I think Haskins and Jones have the tools to be good NFL QBs. Murray is a run around haphazard to make a play guy. Not a QB. I am not convinced he has the ability to follow a play book or would. He is at best a wildcat QB. The GM and HCs days are numbered with that pick.
|
|
|
Post by dannydimes8 on Aug 20, 2019 6:10:45 GMT -5
I love Jones. I like how he’s carried himself, I like the accuracy, I like that he’s athletic. I liked the pick. I put 0 stock in preseason games that’s all I’m saying. It’s vanilla looks played primarily by backup players. If bad QBs can put up great stats in these games it throws it all out the window. Look up the box scores from this week. Backup QBs tore it up. I dont put ZERO stock in it, as I am intrigued. His ball location looked solid so far in the minimal attempts. And when he is throwing to guys like Bennie Fowler and Alonzo Russell, who are covered by 2nd or 3rd string DBs, it kinda evens out. Some of the passes were on the money regardless. And also things like progressions and timing and awareness can be seen in a meaningless preseason game. Those 2 fumbles were bad. The forst one he was rushing to get the play off though because of the play before being a questionable catch IMO. And he pulled out too soon. The second one, that was a lack of awareness you have to hope gets better with time. Our backup OL messed up blocking the backup pass rushers. Things go ugly. All you can do is take those positives and negatives and look for those situations again in game 3. See if he learned. He looks very good. He’s very decisive he’s seen his first read open and fired quickly often. He made multiple window throws. I’m not knocking anything he’s done, just point out that guys like Mike Glennon went 11-14 for 175 yards and 2 TDs. Guys like Hundley and Barkley did similar. The rookie Lindsey went 20-25. What we are learning is Jones can pick apart 2nd units. That’s not going to be his ultimate job though which will be outplaying first units and yes at that point he will be surrounded with his own first unit. I think he’s proven to be worthy of playing. I think that’s the main test of preseason. If a guy drowns you now he’s not ready. There are mistakes he will make that he will need to learn in real games things he can and can’t get away with. I consider every game of 2019 priceless learning potential. So each start Eli gets needs to be warranted. 2 free. Beginning week 3 the results of both him and the team need to determine who plays. Very much how the switch from Warner to Manning happened.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Aug 20, 2019 6:47:55 GMT -5
I respect your honesty, but the thing is we've been in QB hell with Eli for years.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming Eli solely. I know Oline played a huge part and I think McAdouche did as well, but that doesn't change the fact that we have been just as bad with Eli at the helm as we were with Dave Brown, Graham, Maddox, etc.
I get that and you're right. Eli hasn't done any favors for this team in the 7 years either. Alls I mean is that just because we have a fresh face in the wings doesnt mean that will anytime soon. Ive liked what Ive seen from Jones and really hope he is the next franchise QB. Im just not ready to anoint as a franchise QB off 2 preseason games I think it’s fair to say that the punishment Eli took in 2013 stayed with him and the Giants solution was not to improve his protection per we, but rather have him get rid of the ball quicker with shorter passes. The trouble I think most of us had was that didn’t play to Eli’s strength. We were so bad at times that IMO it didn’t matter who was playing QB. In fact I wanted Eli pulled sometimes for safety reasons.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Aug 20, 2019 6:48:54 GMT -5
I respect your honesty, but the thing is we've been in QB hell with Eli for years.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming Eli solely. I know Oline played a huge part and I think McAdouche did as well, but that doesn't change the fact that we have been just as bad with Eli at the helm as we were with Dave Brown, Graham, Maddox, etc.
Really? Absolutely. I don’t mean historically but there were individual games that were as bad or worse than those days.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Aug 20, 2019 6:52:17 GMT -5
we have been just as bad with Eli at the helm as we were with Dave Brown, Graham, Maddox, etc.
You have an awful memory. Some of them are awful.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Aug 20, 2019 6:52:17 GMT -5
we have been just as bad with Eli at the helm as we were with Dave Brown, Graham, Maddox, etc.
You have an awful memory. Some of them are awful.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Aug 20, 2019 6:54:05 GMT -5
I respect your honesty, but the thing is we've been in QB hell with Eli for years.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming Eli solely. I know Oline played a huge part and I think McAdouche did as well, but that doesn't change the fact that we have been just as bad with Eli at the helm as we were with Dave Brown, Graham, Maddox, etc.
Seriously all due respect but no ,we have had losing seasons yes but ,...........no. Hopefully I’ve clarified my remark.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Aug 20, 2019 7:02:03 GMT -5
I respect your honesty, but the thing is we've been in QB hell with Eli for years. If you truly believe that then you are fooling yourself.
I'm not defending Eli but by most accounts he has been a 20-25 ranked QB. Think back to the Dave Brown/Danny Kannel/Kent Graham years. That is QB hell. QB Hell is when you have a guy as the starting QB who should not be a starter in the NFL. Even bad Eli has been one of the top 32 QBs in the world. That isn't hell.
Top 32? The top 32 is actually the bottom. I stopped watching every game in 2017. The last time I did that was back in to 90’s. The Giants lost more games that season than they ever lost in the history of the organization. Eli was throwing the ball into the dirt and going down without being touched. You guys are simply not being honest about how low his game got.
|
|
|
Post by bizcliz on Aug 20, 2019 7:12:04 GMT -5
In their defense, there was never a QB you didn't want to draft to replace Eli. there have been plenty i didnt like or want, but this was about after eli retired. All i would hear is how we wil suffer like the 70's or 90's and dave brown and yada yada yada all we would hear is that we should replace Manning with Ryan Nassib
|
|
|
Post by bizcliz on Aug 20, 2019 7:13:01 GMT -5
I’ll admit Rosey that I was one of the people that were and kinda still is (he has looked good don’t get me wrong) saying we’ll be in QB hell after Eli not because I’m a homer but because statistically going from one franchise QB to another usually takes time. I mean look at how long it took the giants between Simms and Eli
I respect your honesty, but the thing is we've been in QB hell with Eli for years.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming Eli solely. I know Oline played a huge part and I think McAdouche did as well, but that doesn't change the fact that we have been just as bad with Eli at the helm as we were with Dave Brown, Graham, Maddox, etc.
is that QB hell or just team hell though? depends on who you ask here, but it's worth the question
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Aug 20, 2019 7:14:44 GMT -5
Top 32? The top 32 is actually the bottom. I stopped watching every game in 2017. The last time I did that was back in to 90’s. The Giants lost more games that season than they ever lost in the history of the organization. Eli was throwing the ball into the dirt and going down without being touched. You guys are simply not being honest about how low his game got. Please explain how the top 32 QBs are actually the bottom?
The Giants as a whole were terrible the past two years. We were in team hell. I am being honest about his game (it was terrible), you are not being honest if you don't think things could be worse.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Aug 20, 2019 7:17:51 GMT -5
I think Haskins and Jones have the tools to be good NFL QBs. Murray is a run around haphazard to make a play guy. Not a QB. I am not convinced he has the ability to follow a play book or would. He is at best a wildcat QB. The GM and HCs days are numbered with that pick. I feel the same about Haskins now as I did before the draft. I simply don't have enough info about him. Maybe he can be awesome, maybe not. Just a lack of info. I feel bad that he went to Washington because I don't feel like that is a good place for a QB to succeed and that could hinder him. Other teams would have given him a better chance for success. Murray throws a very nice ball, but overcoming that height in the NFL will be tough; but not having the speed gap he had in college is what will ultimately kill his career. Reggie Bush, Vince Young and RGIII all come to mind as guys that come to mind.
|
|
|
Post by bizcliz on Aug 20, 2019 7:20:29 GMT -5
but to answer Deli and the OP
Jones has only attempted 20 throws - but they are accurate, with good decisions behind them. We've really only yet to see something in the intermediate - deep range down the center of the field.
The eye test is very much in his favor and I am very excited to see what he does with full reign of the offense, whenever that may be.
Plus I like how he answers his media questions and the amount of times he says "uhh" in between sentences.
|
|
|
Post by dannydimes8 on Aug 20, 2019 7:34:31 GMT -5
Baker Mayfield trashed the Jones pick in a GQ article. He thinks a winning pedigree is they key, but Jones did win relative to Duke’s usual results in football.
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Aug 20, 2019 7:40:17 GMT -5
Looking at your question from the other side first, we have seen nothing in DJ approach and performance to suggest he will be anything other than very good+.
There is a long way to go before we can be sure of that.
To your question, in 50 years the Giants haven't ever had anyone who looked this good early on and wound up flopping. All of our busts have looked like marginal right out of the blocks, including Graham and Brown.
I have heard Gil Brandt say many times that you really can't coach accuracy. DJ shows great accuracy thus far.
|
|