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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 12, 2019 22:30:41 GMT -5
Here is why this team has sucked for years, starting in the second half of the 2012 season, because from 2009 to 2017 they drafted 2 impact players and ones impact lasted about 2 years JPP and OBJ that is 8 years and you can count the prowlers on half a hand LOL but the Reese guys are trying to blame DG for that, it is gonna take more then 20 months to fix 8 years of bad drafting, I didn't even talk about the foolish free agent desperation splurge that in the end only came back to bite them, last but not least 8 years of 0 accountability 0 competition to challenge slumping draft pick, a GM that through coaches and players under the bus who then hired his coach who threw players under the bus, it's to soon to shift blame from the rightful culprit at the end of 4 years if DG has this team as #$%@ up as Reese made it then have at it I will, this is still JRs mess that is being untangled.
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Post by SemperFi on Oct 12, 2019 23:08:03 GMT -5
I don't have to write anything in this thread, this is post is identical to how i'm thinking. That team Gettleman inherited was a hot mess culturally, with more cap space taken than corresponding talent received. The team i'm watching now has an actual future. Compared to pre Gettleman/Shurmur, most positions are getting better, the playcalling is better, the cap situation is better, the draft has been better. Literally everything is better. Except the one thing that gets under everyone's skin, our record. Which sucks. But i'm excited as a Giants fan for the first time in what feels like a decade. There's going to be something to really get excited about starting next year. I don't for a second buy into this "change the culture" nonsense.
You know what changes the culture?....Winning. There was nothing wrong with our culture in 2016 when we went 11-5. Then the next year with the same players we started losing and guess what?...."Bad culture". It's a lot of crap to me.
What Dave needs to change is the quality of football players. He's spending a huge amount of money and cap space on a better culture and forgetting that we have to play better football.
Winning makes for a better culture. Losing will ALWAYS bring resentment and finger pointing.
You want a better culture?....Win more friggin football games.
Two well thought-out posts and you embarrass your self with this myopic rant. Are you really that shallow or are you just another Troll in mod's clothing?
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 13, 2019 0:51:10 GMT -5
These players seem to play hard, to me that is a reflection of the coach, just like to me it was a reflection on McAdoo when it appeared they were not playing hard, at least some of them. What annoyed me was hearing people like Francesa and other experts say that the Giants had no plan. How does anyone outside the owner, GM and HC have any idea what the plan is? To me the plan was very clear...change the culture, build from the trenches out, and find the next franchise QB. I don't know, I'm no expert, but seems like if that was the plan...so far so good. There is enough arrogance in the press now that they actually believe the idea that the team owes them - not the fans mind you, (and please spare me the "they are the voice of the fans" bulshit) an explanation of everything they do. As long as his bosses support his plan and its timeline, he's fine. I've said it all along and I'll say it again: I'm happy that Gettleman treats the press like shine boys. They generally get the treatment they earn. He owes them nothing. However, if he doesn't get a winning product on the field soon, it's job to lose.
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Post by Delicreep on Oct 13, 2019 5:47:03 GMT -5
The culture of the 2016 team that went on the boat trip was OK with you? Sorry that's not OK I don't care how big a Trey Songz fan you are. Stop it.
We have a "nice guy" HC and a bunch of choir boys. Yippy for us.
Unfortunately the "culture" isn't winning us any football games.
I guess being lovable losers is enough for some fans........Not me.
WINNING ...is the best deodorant.
I get what you are saying...but what players would you say Dave got rid of because they were issues to the culture he wanted to establish?What players did you object to being brought in, assuming it was for culture reasons?OBJ was certainly not traded because he wasn't performing Stewart was signed for culture reasons What else are we looking at?
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Oct 13, 2019 7:42:58 GMT -5
Here is why this team has sucked for years, starting in the second half of the 2012 season, because from 2009 to 2017 they drafted 2 impact players and ones impact lasted about 2 years JPP and OBJ that is 8 years and you can count the prowlers on half a hand LOL but the Reese guys are trying to blame DG for that, it is gonna take more then 20 months to fix 8 years of bad drafting, I didn't even talk about the foolish free agent desperation splurge that in the end only came back to bite them, last but not least 8 years of 0 accountability 0 competition to challenge slumping draft pick, a GM that through coaches and players under the bus who then hired his coach who threw players under the bus, it's to soon to shift blame from the rightful culprit at the end of 4 years if DG has this team as #$%@ up as Reese made it then have at it I will, this is still JRs mess that is being untangled. Can you occasionally use a period? Thanks.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Oct 13, 2019 7:52:51 GMT -5
These players seem to play hard, to me that is a reflection of the coach, just like to me it was a reflection on McAdoo when it appeared they were not playing hard, at least some of them. What annoyed me was hearing people like Francesa and other experts say that the Giants had no plan. How does anyone outside the owner, GM and HC have any idea what the plan is? To me the plan was very clear...change the culture, build from the trenches out, and find the next franchise QB. I don't know, I'm no expert, but seems like if that was the plan...so far so good. There is enough arrogance in the press now that they actually believe the idea that the team owes them - not the fans mind you, (and please spare me the "they are the voice of the fans" bulshit) an explanation of everything they do. As long as his bosses support his plan and its timeline, he's fine. I've said it all along and I'll say it again: I'm happy that Gettleman treats the press like shine boys. They generally get the treatment they earn. He owes them nothing. However, if he doesn't get a winning product on the field soon, it's job to lose. I agree, and it carries over to these clowns on ESPN and other sports programming networks who sit there and earn a living analyzing and criticizing players, coaches, GMs, etc. They think they are pseudo celebrities and they start calling out players or coaches to the point where you get players like David Carr wanting to knock out Max Kellerman or all the "experts" piling on the Giants for picking DJ when most of them probably NEVER saw him even play a damn game. One week you win and they heap praise, the next week you lose and it's what is wrong with the team, or coach. It's not sports reporting it's sports criticizing, mostly from people who never even played the game.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 13, 2019 8:33:04 GMT -5
I don't for a second buy into this "change the culture" nonsense.
You know what changes the culture?....Winning. There was nothing wrong with our culture in 2016 when we went 11-5. Then the next year with the same players we started losing and guess what?...."Bad culture". It's a lot of crap to me.
What Dave needs to change is the quality of football players. He's spending a huge amount of money and cap space on a better culture and forgetting that we have to play better football.
Winning makes for a better culture. Losing will ALWAYS bring resentment and finger pointing.
You want a better culture?....Win more friggin football games.
If culture isn’t important than how do you explain two decades of domination from the patriots? It starts with culture. The Patriots always have the best culture in ALL of sports. They created a winning culture where every player that comes to the Patriots believes in. The ‘96-2000 Yankees, Amazing culture, a winning culture. look at the Brows. Their culture is a losing one, where the players are a bunch of babies. All they do is lose...for decades! Their culture is still the same even though they have great players all over the field. SUSTAINABLE winning starts with building culture, 100%!. The 2016 season was a mirage...we have been a negative losing culture for years. Give it time. They win because they have Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. The culture is easy when you win.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Oct 13, 2019 8:44:09 GMT -5
I call it the "cable culture". People are use to on demand this and instant gratification .No longer are teams allowed to rebuild . Hell a poster yesterday called the Giants the NFC Brown's I mention to him the Redskins and he has no idea what I was talking about? Since 1986 the Giants have been to 5 Super Bowls and Won 4 . Other teams haven't figured it out yet .Yes Reese and the FO let the team slip but to start a rotation in coaching and GM's leans to be more like the Browns and the Skins then towards the Patriots which everyone wants to be. Shurmur came into a shit show,now he has a first year rookie QB replace a franchise Icon in his second ,the former GM let the defense slide the new GM is trying to rebuild from the bottom up. Anyone that thinks that can be done in two or three years .........doesn't know a thing about football. Ahhh see we do agree on something!
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 13, 2019 11:06:56 GMT -5
Here is why this team has sucked for years, starting in the second half of the 2012 season, because from 2009 to 2017 they drafted 2 impact players and ones impact lasted about 2 years JPP and OBJ that is 8 years and you can count the prowlers on half a hand LOL but the Reese guys are trying to blame DG for that, it is gonna take more then 20 months to fix 8 years of bad drafting, I didn't even talk about the foolish free agent desperation splurge that in the end only came back to bite them, last but not least 8 years of 0 accountability 0 competition to challenge slumping draft pick, a GM that through coaches and players under the bus who then hired his coach who threw players under the bus, it's to soon to shift blame from the rightful culprit at the end of 4 years if DG has this team as #$%@ up as Reese made it then have at it I will, this is still JRs mess that is being untangled. Can you occasionally use a period? Thanks. Maybe someday I will take a grammar class it is what it is, if it doesn't work for you I'm sorry.
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Post by PennState1 on Oct 13, 2019 11:13:51 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt?
Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football.
Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL.
He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019.
Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy?
So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years.
I’m with you about Eli and that was something I questioned when we signed Jones. Eli’s salary could have gone to help the defense. When you get down to 53 and then keep moving players, that tells you that your team doesn’t have good depth and that is exactly what we’ve seen the last 3 years from this team. It takes time to build your roster and that includes the back ups.. Essentially, Eli is acting as a very expensive QB coach. If he has a significant role in the acceleration of DJs progression, it could prove to be a good investment. Keep in mind that this is a team that is STILL IN REBUILD MOLD and nobody should have expected much from this young team. Next year, we have lots of cap apace, a QB with a year of experience under his belt and this is also true for a ton of young guys starting for this team. With some key adds (including a key veteran leader on defense I hope) we become competitive. The following year (2 seasons from now) we are a SB contender.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 13, 2019 11:19:14 GMT -5
Stop it.
We have a "nice guy" HC and a bunch of choir boys. Yippy for us.
Unfortunately the "culture" isn't winning us any football games.
I guess being lovable losers is enough for some fans........Not me.
WINNING ...is the best deodorant.
I get what you are saying...but what players would you say Dave got rid of because they were issues to the culture he wanted to establish?What players did you object to being brought in, assuming it was for culture reasons?OBJ was certainly not traded because he wasn't performing Stewart was signed for culture reasons What else are we looking at? Wait......Posters here are claiming that "first we need to fix the culture". This is a philosophical question.
So ask them. Ask them who we are bringing in to clean up the culture as they claim we have.
Off the top of my head I would say that dumping Apple was not a football decision. He's now a starting CB on a winning team with an outstanding defense. I would say that bringing in an overpriced Ogeltree was a "culture" decision. I would guess dumping Vernon was as well.
And who knows what the personal traits are of all the possible draftees we considered. I'm taking these poster's word for it that we are "fixing the culture".
My point is the culture gets fixed by winning football games. It's a chicken or the egg proposition. The Pats started winning the day Tom Brady became their QB. Did the culture magically improve because all the players decided to be good guys? No. They won because a better player was at the helm....and they started to win.
So let's do that first. Let's get better players and I'm guessing our culture will be just fine. Winning has a mystical effect on the attitudes of the players.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 13, 2019 11:28:20 GMT -5
I get what you are saying...but what players would you say Dave got rid of because they were issues to the culture he wanted to establish?What players did you object to being brought in, assuming it was for culture reasons?OBJ was certainly not traded because he wasn't performing Stewart was signed for culture reasons What else are we looking at? Wait......Posters here are claiming that "first we need to fix the culture". This is a philosophical question.
So ask them. Ask them who we are bringing in to clean up the culture as they claim we have.
Off the top of my head I would say that dumping Apple was not a football decision. He's now a starting CB on a winning team with an outstanding defense. I would say that bringing in an overpriced Ogeltree was a "culture" decision. I would guess dumping Vernon was as well.
And who knows what the personal traits are of all the possible draftees we considered. I'm taking these poster's word for it that we are "fixing the culture".
My point is the culture gets fixed by winning football games. It's a chicken or the egg proposition. The Pats started winning the day Tom Brady became their QB. Did the culture magically improve because all the players decided to be good guys? No. They won because a better player was at the helm....and they started to win.
So let's do that first. Let's get better players and I'm guessing our culture will be just fine. Winning has a mystical effect on the attitudes of the players.
I guess you really don't want to acknowledge it, that is fine Vernon was traded because he was average his whole career and got paid like the best and the team got a top 5 guard for him, several high character team first guys are here and all these guys do is preach team and playing for one another, seems you only see what you want to see.
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Post by PennState1 on Oct 13, 2019 11:30:51 GMT -5
I get what you are saying...but what players would you say Dave got rid of because they were issues to the culture he wanted to establish?What players did you object to being brought in, assuming it was for culture reasons?OBJ was certainly not traded because he wasn't performing Stewart was signed for culture reasons What else are we looking at? Wait......Posters here are claiming that "first we need to fix the culture". This is a philosophical question.
So ask them. Ask them who we are bringing in to clean up the culture as they claim we have.
Off the top of my head I would say that dumping Apple was not a football decision. He's now a starting CB on a winning team with an outstanding defense. I would say that bringing in an overpriced Ogeltree was a "culture" decision. I would guess dumping Vernon was as well.
And who knows what the personal traits are of all the possible draftees we considered. I'm taking these poster's word for it that we are "fixing the culture".
My point is the culture gets fixed by winning football games. It's a chicken or the egg proposition. The Pats started winning the day Tom Brady became their QB. Did the culture magically improve because all the players decided to be good guys? No. They won because a better player was at the helm....and they started to win.
So let's do that first. Let's get better players and I'm guessing our culture will be just fine. Winning has a mystical effect on the attitudes of the players.
Winning certainly helps but it does not fix bad character guys, guys who miss too many games and players who don’t care enough about the team to do what it takes (sacrifices required) to win a Championship. No one on this MB knows what went on in the locker room, behind the scenes and in the huddle. Getty does.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 13, 2019 11:32:15 GMT -5
Wait......Posters here are claiming that "first we need to fix the culture". This is a philosophical question.
So ask them. Ask them who we are bringing in to clean up the culture as they claim we have.
Off the top of my head I would say that dumping Apple was not a football decision. He's now a starting CB on a winning team with an outstanding defense. I would say that bringing in an overpriced Ogeltree was a "culture" decision. I would guess dumping Vernon was as well.
And who knows what the personal traits are of all the possible draftees we considered. I'm taking these poster's word for it that we are "fixing the culture".
My point is the culture gets fixed by winning football games. It's a chicken or the egg proposition. The Pats started winning the day Tom Brady became their QB. Did the culture magically improve because all the players decided to be good guys? No. They won because a better player was at the helm....and they started to win.
So let's do that first. Let's get better players and I'm guessing our culture will be just fine. Winning has a mystical effect on the attitudes of the players.
I guess you really don't want to acknowledge it, that is fine Vernon was traded because he was average his whole career and got paid like the best and the team got a top 5 guard for him, several high character team first guys are here and all these guys do is preach team and playing for one another, seems you only see what you want to see. So what? Who cares what they preach? Talk is cheap.
Go play winning football. In order to do that you need good players and good coaches.
You are talking about players on a 2-4 team preaching about the "team". GO FRIGGIN WIN. How about that?
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Post by PennState1 on Oct 13, 2019 11:33:08 GMT -5
Wait......Posters here are claiming that "first we need to fix the culture". This is a philosophical question.
So ask them. Ask them who we are bringing in to clean up the culture as they claim we have.
Off the top of my head I would say that dumping Apple was not a football decision. He's now a starting CB on a winning team with an outstanding defense. I would say that bringing in an overpriced Ogeltree was a "culture" decision. I would guess dumping Vernon was as well.
And who knows what the personal traits are of all the possible draftees we considered. I'm taking these poster's word for it that we are "fixing the culture".
My point is the culture gets fixed by winning football games. It's a chicken or the egg proposition. The Pats started winning the day Tom Brady became their QB. Did the culture magically improve because all the players decided to be good guys? No. They won because a better player was at the helm....and they started to win.
So let's do that first. Let's get better players and I'm guessing our culture will be just fine. Winning has a mystical effect on the attitudes of the players.
I guess you really don't want to acknowledge it, that is fine Vernon was traded because he was average his whole career and got paid like the best and the team got a top 5 guard for him, several high character team first guys are here and all these guys do is preach team and playing for one another, seems you only see what you want to see. Plus the guy couldn’t stay on the field! Being available is everything. This is also one of the reasons why we got rid of Pugh even though he is a good player. You can’t pay top dollar to guys who are not on the field enough.
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Post by PennState1 on Oct 13, 2019 11:34:10 GMT -5
I guess you really don't want to acknowledge it, that is fine Vernon was traded because he was average his whole career and got paid like the best and the team got a top 5 guard for him, several high character team first guys are here and all these guys do is preach team and playing for one another, seems you only see what you want to see. So what? Who cares what they preach? Talk is cheap.
Go play winning football. In order to do that you need good players and good coaches.
You are talking about players on a 2-4 team preaching about the "team". GO FRIGGIN WIN. How about that?
What part of we are in rebuild mold is so hard to understand? You really expected us to win this year?
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Oct 13, 2019 11:34:48 GMT -5
I guess you really don't want to acknowledge it, that is fine Vernon was traded because he was average his whole career and got paid like the best and the team got a top 5 guard for him, several high character team first guys are here and all these guys do is preach team and playing for one another, seems you only see what you want to see. So what? Who cares what they preach? Talk is cheap.
Go play winning football. In order to do that you need good players and good coaches.
You are talking about players on a 2-4 team preaching about the "team". GO FRIGGIN WIN. How about that?
It's gotta be keeping you up at night knowing Eli is on the bench and the Giants still suck.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 13, 2019 11:36:16 GMT -5
I guess you really don't want to acknowledge it, that is fine Vernon was traded because he was average his whole career and got paid like the best and the team got a top 5 guard for him, several high character team first guys are here and all these guys do is preach team and playing for one another, seems you only see what you want to see. So what? Who cares what they preach? Talk is cheap.
Go play winning football. In order to do that you need good players and good coaches.
You are talking about players on a 2-4 team preaching about the "team". GO FRIGGIN WIN. How about that?
LOL explain why they don't, so now this is the regimes ball of wax they aren't done fixing the mess that was left behind, can't rebuild a whole team and depth in 2 drafts and less then 2 years, and I don't think Apple is a starter think comes in in packages.
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Post by Delicreep on Oct 13, 2019 11:36:37 GMT -5
I get what you are saying...but what players would you say Dave got rid of because they were issues to the culture he wanted to establish?What players did you object to being brought in, assuming it was for culture reasons?OBJ was certainly not traded because he wasn't performing Stewart was signed for culture reasons What else are we looking at? Wait......Posters here are claiming that "first we need to fix the culture". This is a philosophical question.
So ask them. Ask them who we are bringing in to clean up the culture as they claim we have.
Off the top of my head I would say that dumping Apple was not a football decision. He's now a starting CB on a winning team with an outstanding defense. I would say that bringing in an overpriced Ogeltree was a "culture" decision. I would guess dumping Vernon was as well.
And who knows what the personal traits are of all the possible draftees we considered. I'm taking these poster's word for it that we are "fixing the culture".
My point is the culture gets fixed by winning football games. It's a chicken or the egg proposition. The Pats started winning the day Tom Brady became their QB. Did the culture magically improve because all the players decided to be good guys? No. They won because a better player was at the helm....and they started to win.
So let's do that first. Let's get better players and I'm guessing our culture will be just fine. Winning has a mystical effect on the attitudes of the players.
I’m actually not disputing what you are saying about the culture, but I am questioning how many moves DG has made that were about culture.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 13, 2019 11:41:38 GMT -5
I guess you really don't want to acknowledge it, that is fine Vernon was traded because he was average his whole career and got paid like the best and the team got a top 5 guard for him, several high character team first guys are here and all these guys do is preach team and playing for one another, seems you only see what you want to see. Plus the guy couldn’t stay on the field! Being available is everything. This is also one of the reasons why we got rid of Pugh even though he is a good player. You can’t pay top dollar to guys who are not on the field enough. But even Pugh to this day is a middling Guard and sometimes bottom 3rd. anyone who can't see this team needed to be flushed and rebuilt just has an agenda and their gripes mostly not all are agenda based, this team was a huge mess in 2017 and from about 13 to 17 they were the laughing stocks of the NFL, guys complaining must like that sort of thing.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 13, 2019 11:54:18 GMT -5
Wait......Posters here are claiming that "first we need to fix the culture". This is a philosophical question.
So ask them. Ask them who we are bringing in to clean up the culture as they claim we have.
Off the top of my head I would say that dumping Apple was not a football decision. He's now a starting CB on a winning team with an outstanding defense. I would say that bringing in an overpriced Ogeltree was a "culture" decision. I would guess dumping Vernon was as well.
And who knows what the personal traits are of all the possible draftees we considered. I'm taking these poster's word for it that we are "fixing the culture".
My point is the culture gets fixed by winning football games. It's a chicken or the egg proposition. The Pats started winning the day Tom Brady became their QB. Did the culture magically improve because all the players decided to be good guys? No. They won because a better player was at the helm....and they started to win.
So let's do that first. Let's get better players and I'm guessing our culture will be just fine. Winning has a mystical effect on the attitudes of the players.
I’m actually not disputing what you are saying about the culture, but I am questioning how many moves DG has made that were about culture. I think Guys like Mike Thomas and Russel Sheppard are greta team guys Solder, I think it is more in the draft classes they have clean resume as tough hard nosed team first football players, the way I see it is the vets they did bring here seem to play hard no matter the circumstance, something the 200 mill brigade never did first sign of trouble they lost it and really flat out quit in 2017, I think the proof is they stick together and as they get more talent through the draft in here it will serve the roster and team well. They are in the early stages of the rebuild it gonna take sometime, the way this team was left with a tight cap and a ton of open spots on the roster no LBs signed no OLs signed safety was thin, with limited funds and all kinds of locker room problems this was never gonna be a snap of the fingers and all is fixed.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 13, 2019 12:36:17 GMT -5
So what? Who cares what they preach? Talk is cheap.
Go play winning football. In order to do that you need good players and good coaches.
You are talking about players on a 2-4 team preaching about the "team". GO FRIGGIN WIN. How about that?
It's gotta be keeping you up at night knowing Eli is on the bench and the Giants still suck. It might mean it really wasn't Eli or TC only one guy left he pulled all the strings thats why the team is in full rebuild. Like you Joe theres a period for you lol.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 13, 2019 12:57:17 GMT -5
So what? Who cares what they preach? Talk is cheap.
Go play winning football. In order to do that you need good players and good coaches.
You are talking about players on a 2-4 team preaching about the "team". GO FRIGGIN WIN. How about that?
What part of we are in rebuild mold is so hard to understand? You really expected us to win this year? I don't expect us to win. But I also don't buy into the position that you can build a culture on a losing team. You need to get the best players and the best coaches. I want receivers who can catch the ball and score TD's. I want defenders who get after the QB, cover downfield, tackle well and take the ball away. In other words, get the best players.
The "culture" comes from winning. Not the other way around.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 13, 2019 12:59:19 GMT -5
Wait......Posters here are claiming that "first we need to fix the culture". This is a philosophical question.
So ask them. Ask them who we are bringing in to clean up the culture as they claim we have.
Off the top of my head I would say that dumping Apple was not a football decision. He's now a starting CB on a winning team with an outstanding defense. I would say that bringing in an overpriced Ogeltree was a "culture" decision. I would guess dumping Vernon was as well.
And who knows what the personal traits are of all the possible draftees we considered. I'm taking these poster's word for it that we are "fixing the culture".
My point is the culture gets fixed by winning football games. It's a chicken or the egg proposition. The Pats started winning the day Tom Brady became their QB. Did the culture magically improve because all the players decided to be good guys? No. They won because a better player was at the helm....and they started to win.
So let's do that first. Let's get better players and I'm guessing our culture will be just fine. Winning has a mystical effect on the attitudes of the players.
I’m actually not disputing what you are saying about the culture, but I am questioning how many moves DG has made that were about culture. I'm not claiming one way or the other. What I AM saying to those who ARE suggesting Dave is addressing the "culture" is that it's a fool's errand.
Just get the best players and best coaches and the culture will take care of itself.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 13, 2019 13:15:44 GMT -5
I’m actually not disputing what you are saying about the culture, but I am questioning how many moves DG has made that were about culture. I'm not claiming one way or the other. What I AM saying to those who ARE suggesting Dave is addressing the "culture" is that it's a fool's errand.
Just get the best players and best coaches and the culture will take care of itself.
He is doing both, we have some good young kids they are hard-nosed young kids learning on the job, they are building through the draft it will take time, he is addressing Culture their is 0 quit and so far no in fighting or back biting actually the opposite.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 13, 2019 13:24:57 GMT -5
I'm not claiming one way or the other. What I AM saying to those who ARE suggesting Dave is addressing the "culture" is that it's a fool's errand.
Just get the best players and best coaches and the culture will take care of itself.
He is doing both, we have some good young kids they are hard-nosed young kids learning on the job, they are building through the draft it will take time, he is addressing Culture their is 0 quit and so far no in fighting or back biting actually the opposite. Well we see this differently I guess. Culture comes from winning. Not the other way around. If you are focusing on culture you aren't getting or keeping the best players. And BTW...it's not just Dave. JR did the same thing. That's why we passed on Tunsil and Le'al Collins.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 13, 2019 13:31:55 GMT -5
He is doing both, we have some good young kids they are hard-nosed young kids learning on the job, they are building through the draft it will take time, he is addressing Culture their is 0 quit and so far no in fighting or back biting actually the opposite. Well we see this differently I guess. Culture comes from winning. Not the other way around. If you are focusing on culture you aren't getting or keeping the best players. And BTW...it's not just Dave. JR did the same thing. That's why we passed on Tunsil and Le'al Collins.
I think they have drafted really well there just isn't enough picks to do it all I am hoping that are not shopping crazy now that they will have money rather see them keep drafting and pay our own down the road Lawrence is a beast and just scratching the surface Xman and Carter are coming along Baker is getting better every week I just choose to focus on what the are doing building through the draft.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 13, 2019 14:07:34 GMT -5
Well we see this differently I guess. Culture comes from winning. Not the other way around. If you are focusing on culture you aren't getting or keeping the best players. And BTW...it's not just Dave. JR did the same thing. That's why we passed on Tunsil and Le'al Collins.
I think they have drafted really well there just isn't enough picks to do it all I am hoping that are not shopping crazy now that they will have money rather see them keep drafting and pay our own down the road Lawrence is a beast and just scratching the surface Xman and Carter are coming along Baker is getting better every week I just choose to focus on what the are doing building through the draft. I like their drafts as well. I'm just making a point regarding one post that claimed that Dave has to first fix the culture. That's a load of crap in my view.
First priority is having better players.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 13, 2019 17:05:01 GMT -5
I think they have drafted really well there just isn't enough picks to do it all I am hoping that are not shopping crazy now that they will have money rather see them keep drafting and pay our own down the road Lawrence is a beast and just scratching the surface Xman and Carter are coming along Baker is getting better every week I just choose to focus on what the are doing building through the draft. I like their drafts as well. I'm just making a point regarding one post that claimed that Dave has to first fix the culture. That's a load of crap in my view.
First priority is having better players.
I was not following you correctly I have some issues at times lol, good players will take care of culture.
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Post by gmen21 on Oct 13, 2019 19:29:13 GMT -5
If culture isn’t important than how do you explain two decades of domination from the patriots? It starts with culture. The Patriots always have the best culture in ALL of sports. They created a winning culture where every player that comes to the Patriots believes in. The ‘96-2000 Yankees, Amazing culture, a winning culture. look at the Brows. Their culture is a losing one, where the players are a bunch of babies. All they do is lose...for decades! Their culture is still the same even though they have great players all over the field. SUSTAINABLE winning starts with building culture, 100%!. The 2016 season was a mirage...we have been a negative losing culture for years. Give it time. They win because they have Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. The culture is easy when you win. Absolutely! They are the culture. The front office created that for the patriots. It’s like a business. When I was building my business, I was building a culture with my employees and customers. No way a business is successful without culture.
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