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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 13:36:00 GMT -5
I was a 6 win person but that might not happen with this current team. I also wanted to move on from Eli and let Jones get all the experience he could since I knew this team wasn't going to compete for the playoffs. My hope was that next year they would be a contender but that seems unlikely also with all the holes that will need to be addressed. Rinse and repeat drafting in the top 10 is all I'm seeing so far and I hope that stops before they have to resign Jones.. Let's face it, this team has been decimated by injuries and even with that happening, there still a decent chance of getting your projected wins. In addition, you got your wish that the team moved on from Manning. To me, it seems that the Giants are at where you anticipated they would be with the added benefit of getting their new QB some valuable experience. No one (everyone in this thread) seems to NOT want to comment on my key earlier point. THE GIANTS ARE LESS THAN 1 FULL YEAR INTO THEIR REBUILD.You can keep saying they are less then 1 year into this but they should be 2 years into it which is an issue with some fans.
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Post by jmike on Oct 10, 2019 13:37:06 GMT -5
No. I would rather a player stay and play out his deal so we don't have to get killed in dead cap money.
There was nothing wrong with Snacks. he was a good player for us. I get the Vernon trade because we got a better player in return, but Vernon is a good player. Not a star but a good player. Jenkins played well for a year and then he's been inconsistent, but he's the only vet we have back there. We had a few decent vet CB's last in 2017 and 2018, why did we let them all go? They aren't expensive.
I'm just so frustrated at our lack of depth. I see injuries and a HUGE drop off with the back ups. I look at our dead cap money and I look no further.
Snacks is over rated and over paid for what he does as Detroit is now seeing and talking about. He's not a bad player he's just not a real good one anymore although he seems to still believe he is. Vernon is like parsley; he adds nearly nothing to the meal. Sarc, all of your posts on here are sensible and logical. This has no place on these forums. Please start ranting about all things real or imagined.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 10, 2019 13:43:40 GMT -5
So would you rather a player stay here under contract and not play well or dump them and move on ? No. I would rather a player stay and play out his deal so we don't have to get killed in dead cap money.
There was nothing wrong with Snacks. he was a good player for us. I get the Vernon trade because we got a better player in return, but Vernon is a good player. Not a star but a good player. Jenkins played well for a year and then he's been inconsistent, but he's the only vet we have back there. We had a few decent vet CB's last in 2017 and 2018, why did we let them all go? They aren't expensive.
I'm just so frustrated at our lack of depth. I see injuries and a HUGE drop off with the back ups. I look at our dead cap money and I look no further.
Snacks is gone because he is old 30 expensive over 9 mill a year and he had issues in the locker room with JPP, really at this point Lawrence stops the run and gets to the QB, even with Snacks they ran away from him and the team was still in the bottom of the league across the board on defense, I know your frustrated we all are but the team has had no depth for years, this is how it works keep drafting try to get as many starters as you can and once the roster is full some starters will be beat out by young rookies and the team will sign mid level free agents there is your depth it takes time not 2 drafts and 18 - 20 months on the job, we all want it to be faster.
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Post by Roswell on Oct 10, 2019 13:46:52 GMT -5
No. I would rather a player stay and play out his deal so we don't have to get killed in dead cap money.
There was nothing wrong with Snacks. he was a good player for us. I get the Vernon trade because we got a better player in return, but Vernon is a good player. Not a star but a good player. Jenkins played well for a year and then he's been inconsistent, but he's the only vet we have back there. We had a few decent vet CB's last in 2017 and 2018, why did we let them all go? They aren't expensive.
I'm just so frustrated at our lack of depth. I see injuries and a HUGE drop off with the back ups. I look at our dead cap money and I look no further.
Snacks is over rated and over paid for what he does as Detroit is now seeing and talking about. He's not a bad player he's just not a real good one anymore although he seems to still believe he is. Vernon is like parsley; he adds nearly nothing to the meal. Actually, back in the day, parsley was the way the mob used to get their cut from restaurants. They would sell the parsley to the restaurant and charge an arm and a leg and then send in their guys to make sure it was on every plate.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 13:47:10 GMT -5
Let's face it, this team has been decimated by injuries and even with that happening, there still a decent chance of getting your projected wins. In addition, you got your wish that the team moved on from Manning. To me, it seems that the Giants are at where you anticipated they would be with the added benefit of getting their new QB some valuable experience. No one (everyone in this thread) seems to NOT want to comment on my key earlier point. THE GIANTS ARE LESS THAN 1 FULL YEAR INTO THEIR REBUILD.You can keep saying they are less then 1 year into this but they should be 2 years into it which is an issue with some fans. Shoulda.....woulda....coulda....That's fine, but why even rehash it anymore? "They" made a mistake in thinking they could compete with Eli still ("They" being MOSTLY John Mara) by adding better players on the o-line and having an actual running game. They were wrong (KILL THEM!!!) and now they (and WE) have to bite the bullet of a full rebuild. If there was ever a year where taking a massive dead cap hit was the right time, it was this one.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 10, 2019 13:51:40 GMT -5
No. I would rather a player stay and play out his deal so we don't have to get killed in dead cap money.
There was nothing wrong with Snacks. he was a good player for us. I get the Vernon trade because we got a better player in return, but Vernon is a good player. Not a star but a good player. Jenkins played well for a year and then he's been inconsistent, but he's the only vet we have back there. We had a few decent vet CB's last in 2017 and 2018, why did we let them all go? They aren't expensive.
I'm just so frustrated at our lack of depth. I see injuries and a HUGE drop off with the back ups. I look at our dead cap money and I look no further.
Snacks is over rated and over paid for what he does as Detroit is now seeing and talking about. He's not a bad player he's just not a real good one anymore although he seems to still believe he is. Vernon is like parsley; he adds nearly nothing to the meal. Which means he adds to sage,rosemary and thyme to create one of the most beautiful songs ever written. But that's not important right now
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Post by GameTime on Oct 10, 2019 13:52:06 GMT -5
Let's face it, this team has been decimated by injuries and even with that happening, there still a decent chance of getting your projected wins. In addition, you got your wish that the team moved on from Manning. To me, it seems that the Giants are at where you anticipated they would be with the added benefit of getting their new QB some valuable experience. No one (everyone in this thread) seems to NOT want to comment on my key earlier point. THE GIANTS ARE LESS THAN 1 FULL YEAR INTO THEIR REBUILD.You can keep saying they are less then 1 year into this but they should be 2 years into it which is an issue with some fans. what they "should have" domne and what are they are doing is the facts. They are less than one year into a rebuild. That is a fact. What some armchair GM thinks doesnt matter. Even an armchair GM has to use actual facts every now and then...
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Post by Roswell on Oct 10, 2019 13:52:07 GMT -5
You can keep saying they are less then 1 year into this but they should be 2 years into it which is an issue with some fans. Shoulda.....woulda....coulda....That's fine, but why even rehash it anymore? "They" made a mistake in thinking they could compete with Eli still ("They" being MOSTLY John Mara) by adding better players on the o-line and having an actual running game. They were wrong (KILL THEM!!!) and now they (and WE) have to bite the bullet of a full rebuild. If there was ever a year where taking a massive dead cap hit was the right time, it was this one. Took the words right out of my mouth.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 13:58:57 GMT -5
You can keep saying they are less then 1 year into this but they should be 2 years into it which is an issue with some fans. what they "should have" domne and what are they are doing is the facts. They are less than one year into a rebuild. That is a fact. What some armchair GM thinks doesnt matter. Even an armchair GM has to use actual facts every now and then... From one arm chair to another isn't that what this place is for? What am I missing besides insulting those of you who have a different opinion then me which seems like the thing to do out lately? You say facts as if they are but the fact is they are opinions. If everyone agreed then there would be nothing to discuss and some of you would have to find something else to do during your day. Just saying
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 14:10:03 GMT -5
what they "should have" domne and what are they are doing is the facts. They are less than one year into a rebuild. That is a fact. What some armchair GM thinks doesnt matter. Even an armchair GM has to use actual facts every now and then... From one arm chair to another isn't that what this place is for? What am I missing besides insulting those of you who have a different opinion then me which seems like the thing to do out lately? You say facts as if they are but the fact is they are opinions. If everyone agreed then there would be nothing to discuss and some of you would have to find something else to do during your day. Just saying So....the Giants are in the 1st year of a rebuild isn't a "fact", just an opinion?
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 10, 2019 14:34:30 GMT -5
Snacks is over rated and over paid for what he does as Detroit is now seeing and talking about. He's not a bad player he's just not a real good one anymore although he seems to still believe he is. Vernon is like parsley; he adds nearly nothing to the meal. Sarc, all of your posts on here are sensible and logical. This has no place on these forums. Please start ranting about all things real or imagined. In fairness I understand my friend Morehead's frustration, it sucks rooting for a crappy team. You either believe that they're on the right rack now or you don't. I respect either opinion. I just don't think it's realistic to take a team this bad and make them a contender overnight.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 14:39:00 GMT -5
Sarc, all of your posts on here are sensible and logical. This has no place on these forums. Please start ranting about all things real or imagined. In fairness I understand my friend Morehead's frustration, it sucks rooting for a crappy team. You either believe that they're on the right rack now or you don't. I respect either opinion. I just don't think it's realistic to take a team this bad and make them a contender overnight. Bingo. You can question the decisions that have been made but you can't yet judge the results of those decisions. It hasn't played out yet.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 10, 2019 14:44:38 GMT -5
Sarc, all of your posts on here are sensible and logical. This has no place on these forums. Please start ranting about all things real or imagined. In fairness I understand my friend Morehead's frustration, it sucks rooting for a crappy team. You either believe that they're on the right rack now or you don't. I respect either opinion. I just don't think it's realistic to take a team this bad and make them a contender overnight. Well,actually you can,if you want then to be a one year contender at most And then 2017 happens again
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Post by jb456 on Oct 10, 2019 14:45:15 GMT -5
Let's face it, this team has been decimated by injuries and even with that happening, there still a decent chance of getting your projected wins. In addition, you got your wish that the team moved on from Manning. To me, it seems that the Giants are at where you anticipated they would be with the added benefit of getting their new QB some valuable experience. No one (everyone in this thread) seems to NOT want to comment on my key earlier point. THE GIANTS ARE LESS THAN 1 FULL YEAR INTO THEIR REBUILD.You can keep saying they are less then 1 year into this but they should be 2 years into it which is an issue with some fans. 1) Do you agree that they are 1 year or less into their rebuild? Yes or No? <----------------- This isn't some message board opinion. This is backed up by the moves they made mid 2018 season. 2) They tried to unsuccessfully to fix the holes in the 2018 roster and blew the team up mid-season. To me, this was a good strategy since the core of that team was trash. <--------------------------- Do you agree with this statement . Yes or No 3) If you answered yes to Question 2 (god help you if you didn't), How long do you think it would take to fix a team that was almost completely torn down? 1 offseason, 2 offseasons or 3 offseasons? If you answer is more than 1 off-season (god help you if it isn't) then what is your issue with the current state of the team?
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 10, 2019 14:55:36 GMT -5
I know its not my money but I have a problem with the team paying Eli 17 million dollars to sit on the bench, to me that's money that could have been better spent, it was just a bad decision in keeping Eli ... Why? They weren't spending that money this year anyway, especially on any player that would have significantly changed the course of this season. On the other side, you get to evaluate your team around a known commodity at QB who you also know likes the kid and will mentor him. And his money comes off the board when the team really intends to use it, in 2020. Also, it gives the team the chance to say they tried with Eli, and it makes it easier to them to keep him as a spokesperson and all that stuff. In the end, come next year no one will care what Eli was being paid in 2019 to be a back-up. I see it differently, if they had the money, which they didn't because they gave it to Eli, we could have added some talent that could be helping right now, as far as mentoring the young QB, isn't that why the team pays a QB coach...
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Post by jb456 on Oct 10, 2019 15:07:24 GMT -5
Why? They weren't spending that money this year anyway, especially on any player that would have significantly changed the course of this season. On the other side, you get to evaluate your team around a known commodity at QB who you also know likes the kid and will mentor him. And his money comes off the board when the team really intends to use it, in 2020. Also, it gives the team the chance to say they tried with Eli, and it makes it easier to them to keep him as a spokesperson and all that stuff. In the end, come next year no one will care what Eli was being paid in 2019 to be a back-up. I see it differently, if they had the money, which they didn't because they gave it to Eli, we could have added some talent that could be helping right now, as far as mentoring the young QB, isn't that why the team pays a QB coach... They knew 2019 was a wash and wanted Daniel Jones to learn from Eli. I wasn't ecstatic about it but I understand the logic, I'm pretty sure you do as well...
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 10, 2019 15:20:08 GMT -5
In fairness I understand my friend Morehead's frustration, it sucks rooting for a crappy team. You either believe that they're on the right rack now or you don't. I respect either opinion. I just don't think it's realistic to take a team this bad and make them a contender overnight. Well,actually you can,if you want then to be a one year contender at most And then 2017 happens again Does anyone actually believe the Giants were a contender in 2016? Man, that is a very low bar.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 10, 2019 15:22:45 GMT -5
Why? They weren't spending that money this year anyway, especially on any player that would have significantly changed the course of this season. On the other side, you get to evaluate your team around a known commodity at QB who you also know likes the kid and will mentor him. And his money comes off the board when the team really intends to use it, in 2020. Also, it gives the team the chance to say they tried with Eli, and it makes it easier to them to keep him as a spokesperson and all that stuff. In the end, come next year no one will care what Eli was being paid in 2019 to be a back-up. I see it differently, if they had the money, which they didn't because they gave it to Eli, we could have added some talent that could be helping right now, as far as mentoring the young QB, isn't that why the team pays a QB coach... I think that's complete nonsense. Allocating Manning's money might serve to assuage some pound of fleshers but it wouldn't have made shit's difference to this team's record. To me that's a fantasy that is simply unsupportable.
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Post by Delicreep on Oct 10, 2019 15:26:17 GMT -5
I see it differently, if they had the money, which they didn't because they gave it to Eli, we could have added some talent that could be helping right now, as far as mentoring the young QB, isn't that why the team pays a QB coach... They knew 2019 was a wash and wanted Daniel Jones to learn from Eli. I wasn't ecstatic about it but I understand the logic, I'm pretty sure you do as well... I am unhappy about several elements of that plan, but I also get it. Short term punch in the gut for long term gains.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 15:29:37 GMT -5
Why? They weren't spending that money this year anyway, especially on any player that would have significantly changed the course of this season. On the other side, you get to evaluate your team around a known commodity at QB who you also know likes the kid and will mentor him. And his money comes off the board when the team really intends to use it, in 2020. Also, it gives the team the chance to say they tried with Eli, and it makes it easier to them to keep him as a spokesperson and all that stuff. In the end, come next year no one will care what Eli was being paid in 2019 to be a back-up. I see it differently, if they had the money, which they didn't because they gave it to Eli, we could have added some talent that could be helping right now, as far as mentoring the young QB, isn't that why the team pays a QB coach... Help us do what? Win? So, instead of 6-10 we finish 8-8? We lose valuable draft position for 2 more wins an no playoffs.
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 10, 2019 15:31:13 GMT -5
I see it differently, if they had the money, which they didn't because they gave it to Eli, we could have added some talent that could be helping right now, as far as mentoring the young QB, isn't that why the team pays a QB coach... I think that's complete nonsense. Allocating Manning's money might serve to assuage some pound of fleshers but it wouldn't have made shit's difference to this team's record. To me that's a fantasy that is simply unsupportable. that money might not help the team this year but I don't think there is much that could help right now but you add players for the future, hell we all know this team could use more talented players. One more thing, what pound of fleshers are you talking about. it kind of looks like you took my post completely out of context...
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Post by Delicreep on Oct 10, 2019 15:31:42 GMT -5
Why? They weren't spending that money this year anyway, especially on any player that would have significantly changed the course of this season. On the other side, you get to evaluate your team around a known commodity at QB who you also know likes the kid and will mentor him. And his money comes off the board when the team really intends to use it, in 2020. Also, it gives the team the chance to say they tried with Eli, and it makes it easier to them to keep him as a spokesperson and all that stuff. In the end, come next year no one will care what Eli was being paid in 2019 to be a back-up. I see it differently, if they had the money, which they didn't because they gave it to Eli, we could have added some talent that could be helping right now, as far as mentoring the young QB, isn't that why the team pays a QB coach... You pay coaches to coach...right now, Eli is talking to Jones on the sidelines about things those coaches likely never had any experience with. And if there were 1 guy on the planet I wanted to show Jones the Giants way, it's Eli. But being honest and consistent...not thrilled with the price tag.
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 10, 2019 15:35:37 GMT -5
I see it differently, if they had the money, which they didn't because they gave it to Eli, we could have added some talent that could be helping right now, as far as mentoring the young QB, isn't that why the team pays a QB coach... Help us do what? Win? So, instead of 6-10 we finish 8-8? We lose valuable draft position for 2 more wins an no playoffs. help us field a better quality team, I didn't say win but just look better while losing, right now we're losing and looking terrible doing it and we have to play the Pats tonight. Whatever we do this year isn't going to help our win/loss record, after 5 games I'm looking at the 2020 draft and thats sad...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 15:36:59 GMT -5
I think that's complete nonsense. Allocating Manning's money might serve to assuage some pound of fleshers but it wouldn't have made shit's difference to this team's record. To me that's a fantasy that is simply unsupportable. that money might not help the team this year but I don't think there is much that could help right now but you add players for the future, hell we all know this team could use more talented players. One more thing, what pound of fleshers are you talking about. it kind of looks like you took my post completely out of context... So, who should we have used that money on? Keeping in mind, I was completely PRO getting rid of Eli and saving that cap hit, but I see the logic in keeping him as well. He has helped DJ prepare for this and the cap hit wasn't going to have much affect on this year anyway. There has to be a specific player/s that we could have spent the money on that would be better than having Eli mentor Jones.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 15:38:30 GMT -5
Help us do what? Win? So, instead of 6-10 we finish 8-8? We lose valuable draft position for 2 more wins an no playoffs. help us field a better quality team, I didn't say win but just look better while losing, right now we're losing and looking terrible doing it and we have to play the Pats tonight. Whatever we do this year isn't going to help our win/loss record, after 5 games I'm looking at the 2020 draft and thats sad... So, it about aesthetics then? I got news for you......you were going to be looking toward the 2020 draft anyway.
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 10, 2019 15:40:10 GMT -5
that money might not help the team this year but I don't think there is much that could help right now but you add players for the future, hell we all know this team could use more talented players. One more thing, what pound of fleshers are you talking about. it kind of looks like you took my post completely out of context... So, who should we have used that money on? Keeping in mind, I was completely PRO getting rid of Eli and saving that cap hit, but I see the logic in keeping him as well. He has helped DJ prepare for this and the cap hit wasn't going to have much affect on this year anyway. There has to be a specific player/s that we could have spent the money on that would be better than having Eli mentor Jones. because we gave that money to Eli we didn't have it to spend on more talent, I understand your point on mentoring Jones but we spend money for QB coaches to do that and those are the same guys who mentor Eli..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 15:41:46 GMT -5
So, who should we have used that money on? Keeping in mind, I was completely PRO getting rid of Eli and saving that cap hit, but I see the logic in keeping him as well. He has helped DJ prepare for this and the cap hit wasn't going to have much affect on this year anyway. There has to be a specific player/s that we could have spent the money on that would be better than having Eli mentor Jones. because we gave that money to Eli we didn't have it to spend on more talent, I understand your point on mentoring Jones but we spend money for QB coaches to do that and those are the same guys who mentor Eli.. But who was the better choice/s to spend that money on?
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 10, 2019 15:43:15 GMT -5
because we gave that money to Eli we didn't have it to spend on more talent, I understand your point on mentoring Jones but we spend money for QB coaches to do that and those are the same guys who mentor Eli.. But who was the better choice/s to spend that money on? we'll never know because we didn't have it to spend
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Post by GameTime on Oct 10, 2019 15:50:04 GMT -5
what they "should have" domne and what are they are doing is the facts. They are less than one year into a rebuild. That is a fact. What some armchair GM thinks doesnt matter. Even an armchair GM has to use actual facts every now and then... From one arm chair to another isn't that what this place is for? What am I missing besides insulting those of you who have a different opinion then me which seems like the thing to do out lately? You say facts as if they are but the fact is they are opinions. If everyone agreed then there would be nothing to discuss and some of you would have to find something else to do during your day. Just saying your points are correct and I didnt mean not to discuss. What I was trying to get across is why discuss things that didnt happen and are way in the past. Lets discuss where they are going with what they have now....right?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2019 15:53:29 GMT -5
But who was the better choice/s to spend that money on? we'll never know because we didn't have it to spend C'mon. You have to have a viable candidate/s to make you're theory work. "This guy/s would be more valuable to the team than Eli staying on to mentor Jones and be the back up QB". Or is it your opinion that any random player/s would be better?
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