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Post by Morehead State on Oct 14, 2019 16:44:01 GMT -5
Really don't remember anyone suggesting that the 2018 draft would create 4 HOF QB's.
The point made by many posters, including me, is that it was a strong QB class. We will of course see how they develop with the teams and coaching staff's they play for.
IDK....I never thought it was particularly strong in individuals, but it it did have a bunch of talented QBs, so it was strong in volume. Not a single one of the players was a great prospect, they each had significant flaws. None of them were clearly better better that the top 4 this year, who each had significant flaws as well. So, I really don't see the big difference in strength of class at QB between 2018 and 2019 in anything other than volume. When you are looking at a QB in the top 5-6 picks and since you only get one of them; I just don't see how a draft having 6 good QBs makes it better to take one of them than a draft that has 3 good QBs. I think it is the individual you take who's quality of play matters more than how many players of similar quality are also available to choose from. Nobody will convince me that Mayfield/Darnold/Rosen/Jackson/Allen were a more talented group than Murray/Jones/Haskins/Lock in anything other than volume. 4 of the five you mentioned from 2018 are starting QB's and all have big upside. Mayfield obviously struggling right now but we know how well he can play. Darnold is a heck of a prospect in my view. Thought he was ready to break out this year but the illness put a huge delay on that. looked really good yesterday against Dallas.
This year Murray is the real deal as far as I'm concerned. Jones looks like he will be a very good NFL QB. Haskins is way too raw to know one way or the other and who knows with Lock.
I'd say the 2018 class seems a lot better than 2019. But they all need to develop and no one will know for a few more years minimum.
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Post by Delicreep on Oct 14, 2019 18:08:20 GMT -5
I could post it every day for a year and it still would not come close to comparing to the number of posts from fantasy GMs that purported to know better because the football media told them so. And while I understand that no one likes to be reminded that they bought a bill of goods sold by a bunch of talking heads, that's really just too bad. Really don't remember anyone suggesting that the 2018 draft would create 4 HOF QB's.
The point made by many posters, including me, is that it was a strong QB class. We will of course see how they develop with the teams and coaching staff's they play for.
Well...here's the thing: some posters came across that if we didn't take one of those 4, we were doomed, as there would be no real QB's available in the next draft. The 4 Horsemen, as I named them, were all destined for greatness and we would rue the day we passed on them. And without taking shots at any of those 4 QB's, it was the unending certainty that there were no good QB's in this draft coupled with a great deal of touting of 4 horsemen and our mistake in not taking one of them. In my case, it's little more than a humorous call back. Sarcasman, on the other hand, is way out of line and I reported this to him in his role as a Mod.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 14, 2019 20:37:23 GMT -5
Really don't remember anyone suggesting that the 2018 draft would create 4 HOF QB's.
The point made by many posters, including me, is that it was a strong QB class. We will of course see how they develop with the teams and coaching staff's they play for.
Well...here's the thing: some posters came across that if we didn't take one of those 4, we were doomed, as there would be no real QB's available in the next draft. The 4 Horsemen, as I named them, were all destined for greatness and we would rue the day we passed on them. And without taking shots at any of those 4 QB's, it was the unending certainty that there were no good QB's in this draft coupled with a great deal of touting of 4 horsemen and our mistake in not taking one of them. In my case, it's little more than a humorous call back. Sarcasman, on the other hand, is way out of line and I reported this to him in his role as a Mod. We've already banned Sarc for beating a gag to death.
That's just not right.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 14, 2019 23:11:02 GMT -5
I could post it every day for a year and it still would not come close to comparing to the number of posts from fantasy GMs that purported to know better because the football media told them so. And while I understand that no one likes to be reminded that they bought a bill of goods sold by a bunch of talking heads, that's really just too bad. Really don't remember anyone suggesting that the 2018 draft would create 4 HOF QB's.
The point made by many posters, including me, is that it was a strong QB class. We will of course see how they develop with the teams and coaching staff's they play for.
i recall many posters stating that because Gettleman didn't draft a QB from the 2 spot last year he screwed the team for years come. The 2019 class is crap and blah blah, blah. It was and remains a bullshit theory straight out of laboratory football, not actual football. What can I say, it's a pet peeve. ps - since the ban was for being "unfunny", I really had no rational defense.
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Post by Miked1958 on Oct 15, 2019 2:50:37 GMT -5
Not good. The stage was to big for him at this point in his career. Made some terrible decisions and throws But he shows flashes every game. Does things kids his age and experience dont do. Im very optimistic for him and the future of this team I don’t think this kid has ever looked like the stage is too big for him. Don’t agree with that take at all Well he missed some easy throws that shoukd of been TDs, took sacks he didnt have to where he coukd of thrown ball away. Not saying the deep throw to i think Tate was easy. But he was all by himself. The one in back of endzone to Tate. Again all be himself. You want to beat the champs you have to make those throws Now Tate didnt help him later getting hit between the numbers in endzone and dropping it
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Post by TCHOF on Oct 15, 2019 4:53:40 GMT -5
I don’t think this kid has ever looked like the stage is too big for him. Don’t agree with that take at all Well he missed some easy throws that shoukd of been TDs, took sacks he didnt have to where he coukd of thrown ball away. Not saying the deep throw to i think Tate was easy. But he was all by himself. The one in back of endzone to Tate. Again all be himself. You want to beat the champs you have to make those throws Now Tate didnt help him later getting hit between the numbers in endzone and dropping it IMO making some mistakes is not the same as the stage being too big for him. Was the stage too big for Brady? He threw a bad pick and fumbled a ball that was run back for a TD. To me that’s one of the most encouraging things about this kid - the stage isn’t too big for him.
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Post by jmike on Oct 15, 2019 7:55:12 GMT -5
IDK....I never thought it was particularly strong in individuals, but it it did have a bunch of talented QBs, so it was strong in volume. Not a single one of the players was a great prospect, they each had significant flaws. None of them were clearly better better that the top 4 this year, who each had significant flaws as well. So, I really don't see the big difference in strength of class at QB between 2018 and 2019 in anything other than volume. When you are looking at a QB in the top 5-6 picks and since you only get one of them; I just don't see how a draft having 6 good QBs makes it better to take one of them than a draft that has 3 good QBs. I think it is the individual you take who's quality of play matters more than how many players of similar quality are also available to choose from. Nobody will convince me that Mayfield/Darnold/Rosen/Jackson/Allen were a more talented group than Murray/Jones/Haskins/Lock in anything other than volume. 4 of the five you mentioned from 2018 are starting QB's and all have big upside. Mayfield obviously struggling right now but we know how well he can play. Darnold is a heck of a prospect in my view. Thought he was ready to break out this year but the illness put a huge delay on that. looked really good yesterday against Dallas.
This year Murray is the real deal as far as I'm concerned. Jones looks like he will be a very good NFL QB. Haskins is way too raw to know one way or the other and who knows with Lock.
I'd say the 2018 class seems a lot better than 2019. But they all need to develop and no one will know for a few more years minimum.
I'd say neither looks better than the other as of yet and neither looked better than the other leading into the draft. Each had things that made them look like good prospects and each had flaws. Much of what leads to success in a young QB is the situation they are in. I am not as hopeful for Haskins success as I was pre draft specifically because the situation he is in is not a good one for his particular concerns. Mayfield is not in a good situation and his play this year shows it, he has not improved and while he is good he isn't great yet and if his environment doesn't change he may be yet another early burn out QB. Rosen has been in an awful situation. Jackson on the other hand is in a great one, still a flawed player but his team is making it work instead of trying to make him what he isn't. Darnold is in a rough situation but he seems to be coming through it anyway, good on him. Jones seems to be in a good spot and I suspect Haskins would be in better shape now if the Giants had picked him rather than the Redskins. Allen has really surprised me, as of now he looks like the best of the whole lot of them and he was not a player I liked pre draft. My point being a team could have success with any one of these individuals. They are all talented QBs. The team needs to find a way to bring that talent out. Though, since regardless of who you take or what year you take them, you only get one. So what does it matter how good the rest of the class is if you get the player you want?
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Post by magilla on Oct 15, 2019 9:40:15 GMT -5
IDK....I never thought it was particularly strong in individuals, but it it did have a bunch of talented QBs, so it was strong in volume. Not a single one of the players was a great prospect, they each had significant flaws. None of them were clearly better better that the top 4 this year, who each had significant flaws as well. So, I really don't see the big difference in strength of class at QB between 2018 and 2019 in anything other than volume. When you are looking at a QB in the top 5-6 picks and since you only get one of them; I just don't see how a draft having 6 good QBs makes it better to take one of them than a draft that has 3 good QBs. I think it is the individual you take who's quality of play matters more than how many players of similar quality are also available to choose from. Nobody will convince me that Mayfield/Darnold/Rosen/Jackson/Allen were a more talented group than Murray/Jones/Haskins/Lock in anything other than volume. 4 of the five you mentioned from 2018 are starting QB's and all have big upside. Mayfield obviously struggling right now but we know how well he can play. Darnold is a heck of a prospect in my view. Thought he was ready to break out this year but the illness put a huge delay on that. looked really good yesterday against Dallas.
This year Murray is the real deal as far as I'm concerned. Jones looks like he will be a very good NFL QB. Haskins is way too raw to know one way or the other and who knows with Lock.
I'd say the 2018 class seems a lot better than 2019. But they all need to develop and no one will know for a few more years minimum.
Sam Darnold looks like he's going to be an excellent QB. I like his upside. I also like Josh Allen out in Buffalo; the young man has an arm and has some wheels as well. That team rallies around him. I don't like Baker Mayfield, I think he's a schmuck but when he's on, he's on. I think he will iron out the kinks and will wind up being a very good QB. The guy is in a great situation and he taken to Cleveland as much as they've taken to him it seems. Daniel Jones has good touch and placement on the ball, decent wheels, has free, the team rallies around him but I think the issue with him going forward is his arm strength isn't anything special. That in itself wouldn't be much of concern if not for the fact that it seems that he has tendency to try and force the play a times and he doesn't have the arm strength for that. The young man already has numerous head scratching turnovers in just 4 games. I may be a little hyper critical right now because he's our QB and he's just a rookie but its something I've noticed. In regard to Dwayne Haskins, I think the situation that he's in over in Washington Redskins is going to severely derail his progress as an NFL caliber QB. I cans why he wanted to come over to NY Giants being more than just being a fan but wanting to come here to get mentored. Dwayne Haskins has a strong arm.
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Post by Delicreep on Oct 15, 2019 11:02:09 GMT -5
Really don't remember anyone suggesting that the 2018 draft would create 4 HOF QB's.
The point made by many posters, including me, is that it was a strong QB class. We will of course see how they develop with the teams and coaching staff's they play for.
i recall many posters stating that because Gettleman didn't draft a QB from the 2 spot last year he screwed the team for years come. The 2019 class is crap and blah blah, blah. It was and remains a bullshit theory straight out of laboratory football, not actual football. What can I say, it's a pet peeve. ps - since the ban was for being "unfunny", I really had no rational defense. I thought you were funny...and isn't that what really counts?
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 15, 2019 11:47:09 GMT -5
i recall many posters stating that because Gettleman didn't draft a QB from the 2 spot last year he screwed the team for years come. The 2019 class is crap and blah blah, blah. It was and remains a bullshit theory straight out of laboratory football, not actual football. What can I say, it's a pet peeve. ps - since the ban was for being "unfunny", I really had no rational defense. I thought you were funny...and isn't that what really counts? one would think, but I guess it's the past tense aspect of it that is jamming me up
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 15, 2019 11:56:26 GMT -5
I thought you were funny...and isn't that what really counts? one would think, but I guess it's the past tense aspect of it that is jamming me up I was only offering some friendly advice that some new material would be welcome at this point.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 15, 2019 11:59:21 GMT -5
one would think, but I guess it's the past tense aspect of it that is jamming me up I was only offering some friendly advice that some new material would be welcome at this point. You do realize that the more you ask the less the chance of it happening, right?
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Post by Parademon1 on Oct 15, 2019 12:37:37 GMT -5
DJ did much better than Goff did vs SF. 13-24 for a whopping 78 total passing yds & 0 TDs! And sorry, Murray at 5'10 is gonna find it hard to throw well from within the pocket, which if a DC is smart enough, will do his best to keep him contained in. I'll take my chances at QB with 6'5 DJ than munchkin Murray.
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Post by Delicreep on Oct 15, 2019 12:54:51 GMT -5
I was only offering some friendly advice that some new material would be welcome at this point. You do realize that the more you ask the less the chance of it happening, right? The classics are always funny.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 15, 2019 14:14:15 GMT -5
I was only offering some friendly advice that some new material would be welcome at this point. You do realize that the more you ask the less the chance of it happening, right? Yes......I am aware.
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Post by jmike on Oct 15, 2019 14:24:14 GMT -5
You do realize that the more you ask the less the chance of it happening, right? Yes......I am aware. Please ask him to stop again.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 15, 2019 14:48:23 GMT -5
Please ask him to stop again. He doesn't listen to me. It's like dealing with Trump.
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Post by jmike on Oct 15, 2019 14:55:26 GMT -5
Please ask him to stop again. He doesn't listen to me. It's like dealing with Trump. I know he doesn't, he will do it more if you keep asking. I find it quite amusing, please keep asking him to stop. Have you had many dealings with Trump?
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 15, 2019 15:03:31 GMT -5
He doesn't listen to me. It's like dealing with Trump. I know he doesn't, he will do it more if you keep asking. I find it quite amusing, please keep asking him to stop. Have you had many dealings with Trump? You really do like to argue for the sake of arguing.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 15, 2019 15:08:03 GMT -5
I know he doesn't, he will do it more if you keep asking. I find it quite amusing, please keep asking him to stop. Have you had many dealings with Trump? You really do like to argue for the sake of arguing. Knew it!
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Post by jmike on Oct 15, 2019 15:12:15 GMT -5
I know he doesn't, he will do it more if you keep asking. I find it quite amusing, please keep asking him to stop. Have you had many dealings with Trump? You really do like to argue for the sake of arguing. What argument am I making there exactly?
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Post by jmike on Oct 15, 2019 15:13:02 GMT -5
You really do like to argue for the sake of arguing. Knew it! What are you two talking about? Made a request and asked a question, where is the argument?
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 15, 2019 15:17:31 GMT -5
You really do like to argue for the sake of arguing. What argument am I making there exactly? So you want to argue about whether or not you are arguing.
I think my case has been made.
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Post by jmike on Oct 15, 2019 15:24:17 GMT -5
What argument am I making there exactly? So you want to argue about whether or not you are arguing.
I think my case has been made.
No, you are creating the argument with once again reading things I don't write. You said I was arguing....I see no argument in the statement you quoted. Did you quote the wrong thing? Obviously you didn't either or you would have answered the question. I've asked two, neither of which was answered.
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Post by jb456 on Oct 15, 2019 15:27:56 GMT -5
4 of the five you mentioned from 2018 are starting QB's and all have big upside. Mayfield obviously struggling right now but we know how well he can play. Darnold is a heck of a prospect in my view. Thought he was ready to break out this year but the illness put a huge delay on that. looked really good yesterday against Dallas.
This year Murray is the real deal as far as I'm concerned. Jones looks like he will be a very good NFL QB. Haskins is way too raw to know one way or the other and who knows with Lock.
I'd say the 2018 class seems a lot better than 2019. But they all need to develop and no one will know for a few more years minimum.
Sam Darnold looks like he's going to be an excellent QB. I like his upside. I also like Josh Allen out in Buffalo; the young man has an arm and has some wheels as well. That team rallies around him. I don't like Baker Mayfield, I think he's a schmuck but when he's on, he's on. I think he will iron out the kinks and will wind up being a very good QB. The guy is in a great situation and he taken to Cleveland as much as they've taken to him it seems. Daniel Jones has good touch and placement on the ball, decent wheels, has free, the team rallies around him but I think the issue with him going forward is his arm strength isn't anything special. That in itself wouldn't be much of concern if not for the fact that it seems that he has tendency to try and force the play a times and he doesn't have the arm strength for that. The young man already has numerous head scratching turnovers in just 4 games. I may be a little hyper critical right now because he's our QB and he's just a rookie but its something I've noticed. In regard to Dwayne Haskins, I think the situation that he's in over in Washington Redskins is going to severely derail his progress as an NFL caliber QB. I cans why he wanted to come over to NY Giants being more than just being a fan but wanting to come here to get mentored. Dwayne Haskins has a strong arm. Ugh, Jones has played 3 games 2 of which were against top 5 defenses without a run game. You are comparing him to QB's with a lot more experience. If you really want to compare, compare the first 3 games of Darnold's and Mayfield's career. You will not get a feeling about Daniel Jones's career 3 games into it. Think about it, he has been practicing with the 1's for less than 1 month and in that time he has had a revolving door at receiver. He could end up being a great QB or trash, really no way to judge off of 3 games....
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Post by Parademon1 on Oct 15, 2019 17:08:17 GMT -5
How bout we wait till he has his full complement of starting RBs/WRs/TE back in the starting lineup & then see how he really does? If he stinks it up with SB/Gallman/Shep/Tate/ Engram in the lineup, then we may have a problem at QB, but to be dissing the kid after facing 2 of the best Ds in the NFL w/o his main offensive weapons is asinine!
Cowgirls have lost 3 straight & no one wants to blame Dak, yet he's had Ewok in all 3 games & Cooper as well until he got hurt in Jets game & you telling me he needed Cooper to beat the Jets?
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 15, 2019 17:12:04 GMT -5
So you want to argue about whether or not you are arguing.
I think my case has been made.
No, you are creating the argument with once again reading things I don't write. You said I was arguing....I see no argument in the statement you quoted. Did you quote the wrong thing? Obviously you didn't either or you would have answered the question. I've asked two, neither of which was answered. Did I?
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robl
Special Teams
Posts: 1,382
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Post by robl on Oct 15, 2019 17:53:22 GMT -5
No, you are creating the argument with once again reading things I don't write. You said I was arguing....I see no argument in the statement you quoted. Did you quote the wrong thing? Obviously you didn't either or you would have answered the question. I've asked two, neither of which was answered. Did I? You’re doing it all wrong.
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Post by magilla on Oct 15, 2019 20:26:57 GMT -5
Sam Darnold looks like he's going to be an excellent QB. I like his upside. I also like Josh Allen out in Buffalo; the young man has an arm and has some wheels as well. That team rallies around him. I don't like Baker Mayfield, I think he's a schmuck but when he's on, he's on. I think he will iron out the kinks and will wind up being a very good QB. The guy is in a great situation and he taken to Cleveland as much as they've taken to him it seems. Daniel Jones has good touch and placement on the ball, decent wheels, has free, the team rallies around him but I think the issue with him going forward is his arm strength isn't anything special. That in itself wouldn't be much of concern if not for the fact that it seems that he has tendency to try and force the play a times and he doesn't have the arm strength for that. The young man already has numerous head scratching turnovers in just 4 games. I may be a little hyper critical right now because he's our QB and he's just a rookie but its something I've noticed. In regard to Dwayne Haskins, I think the situation that he's in over in Washington Redskins is going to severely derail his progress as an NFL caliber QB. I cans why he wanted to come over to NY Giants being more than just being a fan but wanting to come here to get mentored. Dwayne Haskins has a strong arm. Ugh, Jones has played 3 games 2 of which were against top 5 defenses without a run game. You are comparing him to QB's with a lot more experience. If you really want to compare, compare the first 3 games of Darnold's and Mayfield's career. You will not get a feeling about Daniel Jones's career 3 games into it. Think about it, he has been practicing with the 1's for less than 1 month and in that time he has had a revolving door at receiver. He could end up being a great QB or trash, really no way to judge off of 3 games.... I simply shared my opbservations about the QB and didn't compare Daniel Jones to anyone else.
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Post by jmike on Oct 16, 2019 7:43:51 GMT -5
No, you are creating the argument with once again reading things I don't write. You said I was arguing....I see no argument in the statement you quoted. Did you quote the wrong thing? Obviously you didn't either or you would have answered the question. I've asked two, neither of which was answered. Did I? How about you answer the questions you were asked. Neither of them were difficult.
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