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Post by Roosevelt on Jan 14, 2020 16:51:56 GMT -5
We already discussed this. This is old news.
Where? You know full well the search feature on this site isn't worth a damn. You feel free to combine thread as long as the thread title is relevant. I don't want my thread getting lost amongst the whining.
Gettleman made those comments about Pat 2 weeks ago. It just seems odd to be bringing that up now.
BTW, are you talking about the search feature at the top, or on the right side?
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Post by Roosevelt on Jan 14, 2020 16:55:55 GMT -5
I came across this just now. How funny is this?
You Can Just Tell Pat Shurmur Is Not Thrilled With Dave Gettleman and Daniel Jones
The best thing as a fan is when your team wins, but if you can’t have that a big part of the game is believing that you know better than the stubborn men in charge. Dave Gettleman, in picking Daniel Jones instead of the higher-upside Dwayne Haskins or a top-flight pass rusher, proved Giants fans right that he’s incapable of holding the job. But it’s not just the fans: In the press conference above, it is striking to examine the dour body language of Pat Shurmur.
In the video, Shurmur outwardly says all the right things about how there was a consensus in the organization behind Jones, how they got their guy, and how he could be the Big Blue starter for a very long time. But his poker face pretty overtly displays that he’s holding a hand of having fought for a different path and been overruled by his boss.
I get that the Draft is an absolutely grueling process and that by the end of the first day — after four months of rigorous evaluations, give-and-take discussion inside the building, and building a big board — one is exhausted. Nevertheless, if the Giants had really done what Shurmur wanted, he would’ve been up there exuberant about how much more room they’d have for activities.
Now, we don’t know exactly which path Shurmur would have preferred — if he’d have rather had a quarterback in Haskins that he could eventually open up the playbook with, or an immediate impact maker to menace the opposing quarterback. As an armchair psychologist, to me, it just looks like the gears are spinning inside his head that if Jones ever does pan out he’ll be long gone and it will be in service of his successor — and that it’s highly unlikely Shurmur would get a third opportunity as a head coach even if everyone with eyes can tell the franchise management around him was incompetent both times.
Is Eli Manning the answer? Of course not, and Shurmur knows that. But he also knows that Eli was returning and if that was going to be the circumstance he was presumably hoping for someone who could fill one of the many holes on the rest of the Giants’ roster right now, and if not that then a quarterback who could at least excite the fan base. Now he’ll likely be collateral damage.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 14, 2020 17:12:45 GMT -5
I came across this just now. How funny is this?
You Can Just Tell Pat Shurmur Is Not Thrilled With Dave Gettleman and Daniel Jones
The best thing as a fan is when your team wins, but if you can’t have that a big part of the game is believing that you know better than the stubborn men in charge. Dave Gettleman, in picking Daniel Jones instead of the higher-upside Dwayne Haskins or a top-flight pass rusher, proved Giants fans right that he’s incapable of holding the job. But it’s not just the fans: In the press conference above, it is striking to examine the dour body language of Pat Shurmur.
In the video, Shurmur outwardly says all the right things about how there was a consensus in the organization behind Jones, how they got their guy, and how he could be the Big Blue starter for a very long time. But his poker face pretty overtly displays that he’s holding a hand of having fought for a different path and been overruled by his boss.
I get that the Draft is an absolutely grueling process and that by the end of the first day — after four months of rigorous evaluations, give-and-take discussion inside the building, and building a big board — one is exhausted. Nevertheless, if the Giants had really done what Shurmur wanted, he would’ve been up there exuberant about how much more room they’d have for activities.
Now, we don’t know exactly which path Shurmur would have preferred — if he’d have rather had a quarterback in Haskins that he could eventually open up the playbook with, or an immediate impact maker to menace the opposing quarterback. As an armchair psychologist, to me, it just looks like the gears are spinning inside his head that if Jones ever does pan out he’ll be long gone and it will be in service of his successor — and that it’s highly unlikely Shurmur would get a third opportunity as a head coach even if everyone with eyes can tell the franchise management around him was incompetent both times.
Is Eli Manning the answer? Of course not, and Shurmur knows that. But he also knows that Eli was returning and if that was going to be the circumstance he was presumably hoping for someone who could fill one of the many holes on the rest of the Giants’ roster right now, and if not that then a quarterback who could at least excite the fan base. Now he’ll likely be collateral damage.
Shurmur doesnt have a poker face.....thats just the way it is
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soflo
Special Teams
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Post by soflo on Jan 14, 2020 17:13:04 GMT -5
Now I don't have as much trust in DG's ability to draft anyone besides RB, OL and DL.... He doesn't seem to be in touch with the skill positions based on past picks draft What about him identifying Slayton? He would be a late first to mid second rounder if the draft was regraded today.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 14, 2020 17:15:37 GMT -5
Now I don't have as much trust in DG's ability to draft anyone besides RB, OL and DL.... He doesn't seem to be in touch with the skill positions based on past picks draft so DG makes all the wrong picks but the good ones are some one else's idea... ok now I have it straight....
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Post by thetruth on Jan 14, 2020 17:54:51 GMT -5
Now I don't have as much trust in DG's ability to draft anyone besides RB, OL and DL.... He doesn't seem to be in touch with the skill positions based on past picks draft Can he scout good offensive lineman? I hear he can. However, the evidence says otherwise.
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Post by thetruth on Jan 14, 2020 17:57:26 GMT -5
Now I don't have as much trust in DG's ability to draft anyone besides RB, OL and DL.... He doesn't seem to be in touch with the skill positions based on past picks draft so DG makes all the wrong picks but the good ones are some one else's idea... ok now I have it straight.... One thing is for sure. Gettlemen scouts and signs FA's. The draft is more of a group project with the scouting department. As per the Giants documentary, "finding giants" Now, it seems as though we have more success when the power is not centralized. It is what it is
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Post by TEM on Jan 14, 2020 18:05:34 GMT -5
Now I don't have as much trust in DG's ability to draft anyone besides RB, OL and DL.... He doesn't seem to be in touch with the skill positions based on past picks draft What about him identifying Slayton? He would be a late first to mid second rounder if the draft was regraded today. I also think Baker became a good corner towards the end of the season. Love is showing sings of life as a safety.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 14, 2020 18:09:09 GMT -5
so DG makes all the wrong picks but the good ones are some one else's idea... ok now I have it straight.... One thing is for sure. Gettlemen scouts and signs FA's. The draft is more of a group project with the scouting department. As per the Giants documentary, "finding giants" Now, it seems as though we have more success when the power is not centralized. It is what it is Mara said during a recent inteview that he doesnt want to spend a "lot" of money on FAs since it will ultimately cause cap issues. I believe even the FA choices are group effort
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 19:13:59 GMT -5
I would have given pat another year just because of this honestly. He found our franchise QB and gets shown the door. That isn't the Giants way Oh crap....are you suggesting, correctly, Pat Shurmur was the fall guy...to appease the impatient NY sports fans? Mob aint gonna like this 😂
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Post by Kruunch on Jan 14, 2020 19:15:56 GMT -5
I would have given pat another year just because of this honestly. He found our franchise QB and gets shown the door. That isn't the Giants way Oh crap....are you suggesting, correctly, Pat Shurmur was the fall guy...to appease the impatient NY sports fans? Mob aint gonna like this 😂 Speaking of mob can someone give Gettleman an offer he can’t refuse. And if that doesn’t work just give him cement shoes.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 14, 2020 19:50:15 GMT -5
Oh crap....are you suggesting, correctly, Pat Shurmur was the fall guy...to appease the impatient NY sports fans? Mob aint gonna like this 😂 Speaking of mob can someone give Gettleman an offer he can’t refuse. And if that doesn’t work just give him cement shoes. I may know some who can help
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 14, 2020 20:03:19 GMT -5
I would have given pat another year just because of this honestly. He found our franchise QB and gets shown the door. That isn't the Giants way Oh crap....are you suggesting, correctly, Pat Shurmur was the fall guy...to appease the impatient NY sports fans? Mob aint gonna like this 😂 The Giants had a weak interior Oline, making running through the A gaps all but impossible. A good coach would: A) relentlessly run to the A gap B) do anything else
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soflo
Special Teams
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Post by soflo on Jan 14, 2020 20:13:25 GMT -5
I would have given pat another year just because of this honestly. He found our franchise QB and gets shown the door. That isn't the Giants way Oh crap....are you suggesting, correctly, Pat Shurmur was the fall guy...to appease the impatient NY sports fans? Mob aint gonna like this 😂 He was fired for losing winnable games as a result in part of his in game management. And hc bears the responsibility of how all phases of the game are performing. Maybe he could have been given more time but theGiants felt they’d seen enough and its a stretch to say he was unfairly scapegoated
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Post by Kruunch on Jan 14, 2020 20:15:25 GMT -5
Speaking of mob can someone give Gettleman an offer he can’t refuse. And if that doesn’t work just give him cement shoes. I may know some who can help Me too. But now I’ve said too much.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 14, 2020 20:20:13 GMT -5
I may know some who can help Me too. But now I’ve said too much. time for a boat ride Tessio
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Post by Blue Hulk on Jan 14, 2020 20:21:22 GMT -5
MacAdoo wanted Mahomes... should they have kept him because of that? I thought McAdoo was a good evaluator of talent. If we listened to him I think the Giants would be better off today. McAdoo was not that bad. I think DG and McAdoo would have been a better combo than Mac and Reese (nice ring to that)
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Post by Blue Hulk on Jan 14, 2020 20:22:30 GMT -5
Where? You know full well the search feature on this site isn't worth a damn. You feel free to combine thread as long as the thread title is relevant. I don't want my thread getting lost amongst the whining.
Gettleman made those comments about Pat 2 weeks ago. It just seems odd to be bringing that up now.
BTW, are you talking about the search feature at the top, or on the right side?
The right side. I NEVER noticed a search feature on top until reading your post. So much stuff in the menu, I just use it to quick link to BBV and Giants Wire
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Post by Blue Hulk on Jan 14, 2020 20:24:52 GMT -5
I came across this just now. How funny is this?
You Can Just Tell Pat Shurmur Is Not Thrilled With Dave Gettleman and Daniel Jones
The best thing as a fan is when your team wins, but if you can’t have that a big part of the game is believing that you know better than the stubborn men in charge. Dave Gettleman, in picking Daniel Jones instead of the higher-upside Dwayne Haskins or a top-flight pass rusher, proved Giants fans right that he’s incapable of holding the job. But it’s not just the fans: In the press conference above, it is striking to examine the dour body language of Pat Shurmur.
In the video, Shurmur outwardly says all the right things about how there was a consensus in the organization behind Jones, how they got their guy, and how he could be the Big Blue starter for a very long time. But his poker face pretty overtly displays that he’s holding a hand of having fought for a different path and been overruled by his boss.
I get that the Draft is an absolutely grueling process and that by the end of the first day — after four months of rigorous evaluations, give-and-take discussion inside the building, and building a big board — one is exhausted. Nevertheless, if the Giants had really done what Shurmur wanted, he would’ve been up there exuberant about how much more room they’d have for activities.
Now, we don’t know exactly which path Shurmur would have preferred — if he’d have rather had a quarterback in Haskins that he could eventually open up the playbook with, or an immediate impact maker to menace the opposing quarterback. As an armchair psychologist, to me, it just looks like the gears are spinning inside his head that if Jones ever does pan out he’ll be long gone and it will be in service of his successor — and that it’s highly unlikely Shurmur would get a third opportunity as a head coach even if everyone with eyes can tell the franchise management around him was incompetent both times.
Is Eli Manning the answer? Of course not, and Shurmur knows that. But he also knows that Eli was returning and if that was going to be the circumstance he was presumably hoping for someone who could fill one of the many holes on the rest of the Giants’ roster right now, and if not that then a quarterback who could at least excite the fan base. Now he’ll likely be collateral damage.
Shurmur doesnt have a poker face.....thats just the way it is Quite the opposite. Shurmur got the player he wanted and he's sitting there stoic while DG is smiling like he just won the lotto. Looking at those two guys, Shurmur will play you out of your clothes.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Jan 14, 2020 20:27:36 GMT -5
I'm a DG fan and I actually like most of his picks. I didn't agree with the Saquon pick and I wanted Drew Lock, who is DJ with a stronger arm and less maturity. I'm pro Gettleman and in every thread about firing him, I consistently wanted DG to stay..
I say that because I was being a bit facetious with my comments on his draft picks, but that's on me
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Post by Kruunch on Jan 14, 2020 20:27:38 GMT -5
Me too. But now I’ve said too much. time for a boat ride Tessio I was thinking more of Moe Greene. You know a bullet in the eye while you’re getting a massage.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Jan 14, 2020 20:33:49 GMT -5
I would have given pat another year just because of this honestly. He found our franchise QB and gets shown the door. That isn't the Giants way Oh crap....are you suggesting, correctly, Pat Shurmur was the fall guy...to appease the impatient NY sports fans? Mob aint gonna like this 😂 McAdoo was the bigger fall guy for Reese. He never got the staff he wanted and he had NYG coaching hand me downs from the TC era. Poor guy never stood a chance. Mac started Eli on the path to consistent accuracy by utilizing the short game and less chuck and duck. Before Mac, Eli's completion % was erratic, dipping into the 50's% range. Mac kept him in the mid 60's and so did Shurmur
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 7:12:04 GMT -5
Oh crap....are you suggesting, correctly, Pat Shurmur was the fall guy...to appease the impatient NY sports fans? Mob aint gonna like this 😂 The Giants had a weak interior Oline, making running through the A gaps all but impossible. A good coach would: A) relentlessly run to the A gap B) do anything else So how many games were you expecting the Giants to win last year as you texted your niece too much?...until Shurmur ran it into A gap hell? Let's do Vegas A) over 6 games B) under 6 games I had B...and then his draft pick rookie QB came in to learn the position I then would have went 4 games...cause of that weak interior offensive line you mention, the lack of talent you meant to say....but a line that was strong on the exterior ... strong enough to bounce thunder thighs with the bad ankle into our zone, or was it man blocking...or gap blocking scheme? One of them I assume...cause our talented offensive line had strengths. Oh wait...I just called our exterior line strong.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 7:16:07 GMT -5
time for a boat ride Tessio I was thinking more of Moe Greene. You know a bullet in the eye while you’re getting a massage. You gotta have your massage therapist aim the happy endings away from your eye ... even Kraft knows this method
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 7:26:24 GMT -5
Oh crap....are you suggesting, correctly, Pat Shurmur was the fall guy...to appease the impatient NY sports fans? Mob aint gonna like this 😂 He was fired for losing winnable games as a result in part of his in game management. And hc bears the responsibility of how all phases of the game are performing. Maybe he could have been given more time but theGiants felt they’d seen enough and its a stretch to say he was unfairly scapegoated Not a stretch at all How many games were you expecting the Giants to win entering the season with Eli Manning? Vegas had 6 as the over under...with a weak schedule. Then we went full rebuild with the QB and secondary, with no linebackers...a young talentless team A gaps with Barkley is all I hear from others...yeah, that was the reason we fired Shurmur Yeah, not the best hire we ever made, and agree his game management was lacking ...but he was scapegoated for the lack of talent on this team...that's a GM problem
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Post by GameTime on Jan 15, 2020 7:45:21 GMT -5
He was fired for losing winnable games as a result in part of his in game management. And hc bears the responsibility of how all phases of the game are performing. Maybe he could have been given more time but theGiants felt they’d seen enough and its a stretch to say he was unfairly scapegoated Not a stretch at all How many games were you expecting the Giants to win entering the season with Eli Manning? Vegas had 6 as the over under...with a weak schedule. Then we went full rebuild with the QB and secondary, with no linebackers...a young talentless team A gaps with Barkley is all I hear from others...yeah, that was the reason we fired Shurmur Yeah, not the best hire we ever made, and agree his game management was lacking ...but he was scapegoated for the lack of talent on this team...that's a GM problem it was two losing seasons and he wasnt a scapegoat. He was a poor "in-game" coach beyond the losses and thats the bottom line. Betcher as well.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Jan 15, 2020 7:53:14 GMT -5
What exactly is the issue? That DG listened to his coach (which some questioned if he did, btw)? Does it matter who got the scouting department to first look at DJ? Or is it more important that, once he was looked at, he was accurately assessed? So far, it looks like the scouting department that DG put together accurately assessed DJ compared to most "experts" who did not. I think some of us, who are suggesting that Shurmer should've been retained while Gettleman was let go over this are underestimating the role of the entire process after spotting a prospect. BTW - it took balls and trust in his scouts for DG to skip the 2018 class based on expectations of the QBs in 2019. If Omameh handled the move to the right side better and if Flowers had got his act together enough to be at least adequate at RT (or if the ffing coaches had decided to look at him at guard), DG's faith in Eli would not have looked so misplaced.
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Post by TCHOF on Jan 15, 2020 8:01:30 GMT -5
He was fired for losing winnable games as a result in part of his in game management. And hc bears the responsibility of how all phases of the game are performing. Maybe he could have been given more time but theGiants felt they’d seen enough and its a stretch to say he was unfairly scapegoated Not a stretch at all How many games were you expecting the Giants to win entering the season with Eli Manning? Vegas had 6 as the over under...with a weak schedule. Then we went full rebuild with the QB and secondary, with no linebackers...a young talentless team A gaps with Barkley is all I hear from others...yeah, that was the reason we fired Shurmur Yeah, not the best hire we ever made, and agree his game management was lacking ...but he was scapegoated for the lack of talent on this team...that's a GM problem Do you think that Pat Shurmur is/was a good head coach?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 8:03:00 GMT -5
Not a stretch at all How many games were you expecting the Giants to win entering the season with Eli Manning? Vegas had 6 as the over under...with a weak schedule. Then we went full rebuild with the QB and secondary, with no linebackers...a young talentless team A gaps with Barkley is all I hear from others...yeah, that was the reason we fired Shurmur Yeah, not the best hire we ever made, and agree his game management was lacking ...but he was scapegoated for the lack of talent on this team...that's a GM problem Do you think that Pat Shurmur is/was a good head coach? How many games did you expect to win last year?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 8:12:25 GMT -5
Not a stretch at all How many games were you expecting the Giants to win entering the season with Eli Manning? Vegas had 6 as the over under...with a weak schedule. Then we went full rebuild with the QB and secondary, with no linebackers...a young talentless team A gaps with Barkley is all I hear from others...yeah, that was the reason we fired Shurmur Yeah, not the best hire we ever made, and agree his game management was lacking ...but he was scapegoated for the lack of talent on this team...that's a GM problem it was two losing seasons and he wasnt a scapegoat. He was a poor "in-game" coach beyond the losses and thats the bottom line. Betcher as well. Yes he was a scapegoat...for the self important media, and all the impatient NY fans that are too emotional When did you decide he was a poor in game manger? Cleveland? After year 1? What game in the second season? I'm guessing when you finally got sick of losing. It's okay...it's just human nature. When you are not sure of something, the human brain reassures itself and fills in patterns...you hated losing...again. We all did. I'm simply more rational...know when my mind is playing tricks on me. We all want to believe the losing was caused by Pat Shurmur...gives us hope for the new year. It was lack of talent. It was. But please, go on... and let mob mentality help you out with your reasoning.
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