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Post by jb456 on Mar 26, 2021 23:01:44 GMT -5
Point being, if a team is willing to trade up to the 3rd pick, then they likely have little reason to not give the same package of picks for the 2nd pick. Im cool with that and agree but I don't think the Giants would have taken the 3 2s from the Jets. I don't even think they called the Giants, to much risk on both sides. If the Giants accepted the Jets trade and Darnald busted, the media would have been relentless, same with the Giants had Darnold turned into top 10 or 5 QB. I think there was a thread on the board at the time and a lot of posters were bummed that the Giants didn't get that trade but the Jets would have never traded with the Giants. Just like the Giants wouldnt trade with the Cowboys or Eagles
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 26, 2021 23:12:03 GMT -5
How many QBs going in the top 10? At least 4 right, worst case 3, up to 5? Was Darnold ever considered a generational QB? This year >>>>>>>>>>> 2018. How do I know? Look at these trades. The proof is in the pudding. 2018 was smoke and Allen dropped like a rock. 4 went in the top 10 in 2018. You can speculate all you want about this upcoming draft. If these 4 go in the top 10 then those teams get what they deserve. Lawrence and Zach Wilson are the only 2 that are close to being worthy of a top 10 pick.
And many considered Darnold the best QB prospect in that draft. Not every player works out. The ultimate point is that the #2 pick in that draft is worth more than the #3 pick in this draft. It's pretty basic math. And that draft had many teams desperate for QB's.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 26, 2021 23:19:48 GMT -5
To get Sam Darnold. Was DG offered 3 firsts and a forth to get Darnold? Hell, the Giants themselves thought so much about SD that they decided to keep their old QB who hadn't had a good season in years to draft a RB. Apples and Oranges. Point being, if a team is willing to trade up to the 3rd pick, then they likely have little reason to not give the same package of picks for the 2nd pick. Any deal given for the #3 pick becomes the floor for any deal for the #2 pick.
I don't get why this is even a question.
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Post by McCherry on Mar 26, 2021 23:23:12 GMT -5
This draft has more QB's projected in the first round and the top 10 is far deeper than 2018 overall. The fact we didn't even receive anything remotely close to what the Dolphins got tells you the difference in value between the picks right there. ...and you know this how?
Was it during the time Dave said he didn't answer the phone?
Dave's quote about the quality of the offers we received is well known. Hey, I would've loved to have gotten 3 first round picks to move out the second that year. So would Gettleman and every member of the Giants front office.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 26, 2021 23:28:55 GMT -5
...and you know this how?
Was it during the time Dave said he didn't answer the phone?
Dave's quote about the quality of the offers we received is well known. Hey, I would've loved to have gotten 3 first round picks to move out the second that year. So would Gettleman and every member of the Giants front office. Tell me what specific offers he got. Dave was going to draft Saquan no matter what he was offered. he said himself that he didn't even answer the phone when he was on the clock.
The value of the 2nd pick is clear. Two years before the Eagles moved up to the 2nd from the 8th spot for two 1st's, a 2nd, 3rd and a 4th.
That was to move up 6 spots.
But you seem to be claiming that magically, only in the 2018 draft, the second pick had very little value. Not only claiming that, you mocked the idea of the obvious fact that the pick had just as great value, probably more in a strong QB draft than the 3rd pick this year.
You have NO leg to stand on.
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Post by jb456 on Mar 26, 2021 23:37:07 GMT -5
4 went in the top 10 in 2018. You can speculate all you want about this upcoming draft. If these 4 go in the top 10 then those teams get what they deserve. Lawrence and Zach Wilson are the only 2 that are close to being worthy of a top 10 pick.
And many considered Darnold the best QB prospect in that draft. Not every player works out. The ultimate point is that the #2 pick in that draft is worth more than the #3 pick in this draft. It's pretty basic math. And that draft had many teams desperate for QB's.
Im my memory serves me, the Jests were the only team trading up. No other team felt the need to trade up. They traded 3 2s. We just had a team mortgage their entire future with a trade and another trade 2 1sts to get to 6. This year is significantly different than 2018. Who knows, additional trades could happen. No one was coming close to offering the Giants 3 1sts and a 4th.
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Post by McCherry on Mar 26, 2021 23:44:43 GMT -5
Someone could have been on to the fact that Josh Allen was really good and traded up for him. At the very least, they had to offer multiple first round picks and later round picks. The draft value map pretty much dictates the value. We weren't getting much less for a better pick....c'mon now Josh Allen wasn't that coveted. He went #7. No team traded up to 4 5 or 6. Apples and oranges... Very true. Mayfield was the only blue chip QB in that draft. It's obvious why Darnold was considered a distant second. Josh Allen was not a top prospect and considered a reach by Buffalo. Bills fans cried on Twitter because they wanted Josh Rosen. Far superior talent in this year's draft. Which is pretty obvious by the trade that just went down.
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Post by McCherry on Mar 27, 2021 0:00:42 GMT -5
Dave's quote about the quality of the offers we received is well known. Hey, I would've loved to have gotten 3 first round picks to move out the second that year. So would Gettleman and every member of the Giants front office. Tell me what specific offers he got. Dave was going to draft Saquan no matter what he was offered. he said himself that he didn't even answer the phone when he was on the clock.
The value of the 2nd pick is clear. Two years before the Eagles moved up to the 2nd from the 8th spot for two 1st's, a 2nd, 3rd and a 4th.
That was to move up 6 spots.
But you seem to be claiming that magically, only in the 2018 draft, the second pick had very little value. Not only claiming that, you mocked the idea of the obvious fact that the pick had just as great value, probably more in a strong QB draft than the 3rd pick this year.
You have NO leg to stand on.
Your memory is all wrong on this. He said the offers they received were equivalent to a bad of donuts and a pretzel. He never said he wasn't taking offers, he said he wasn't listening to any more bad ones. Nobody was giving 3 first rounders to move the #2 or they would’ve taken it in half a second. Your definition of Dave's role and power changes with the wind, one day he's making decisions for the entire franchise, the next he's a lowly scout for Joe Judge. Give it up with this nonsense already.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 27, 2021 0:30:31 GMT -5
Tell me what specific offers he got. Dave was going to draft Saquan no matter what he was offered. he said himself that he didn't even answer the phone when he was on the clock.
The value of the 2nd pick is clear. Two years before the Eagles moved up to the 2nd from the 8th spot for two 1st's, a 2nd, 3rd and a 4th.
That was to move up 6 spots.
But you seem to be claiming that magically, only in the 2018 draft, the second pick had very little value. Not only claiming that, you mocked the idea of the obvious fact that the pick had just as great value, probably more in a strong QB draft than the 3rd pick this year.
You have NO leg to stand on.
Your memory is all wrong on this. He said the offers they received were equivalent to a bad of donuts and a pretzel. He never said he wasn't taking offers, he said he wasn't listening to any more bad ones. Nobody was giving 3 first rounders to move the #2 or they would’ve taken it in half a second. Your definition of Dave's role and power changes with the wind, one day he's making decisions for the entire franchise, the next he's a lowly scout for Joe Judge. Give it up with this nonsense already. This is false and I have corrected you numerous times in the past when you made the same claims.
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Post by jb456 on Mar 27, 2021 6:13:13 GMT -5
Your memory is all wrong on this. He said the offers they received were equivalent to a bad of donuts and a pretzel. He never said he wasn't taking offers, he said he wasn't listening to any more bad ones. Nobody was giving 3 first rounders to move the #2 or they would’ve taken it in half a second. Your definition of Dave's role and power changes with the wind, one day he's making decisions for the entire franchise, the next he's a lowly scout for Joe Judge. Give it up with this nonsense already. This is false and I have corrected you numerous times in the past when you made the same claims. Hey, TCHOF, which part is false? I thought I remember the bag of doughnuts story. Did some team offer the Giants 3 firsts? Or is DG really Joe Judge's errand boy now?
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2021 6:36:40 GMT -5
Reason #1848483893 We should have traded back instead of getting Barkley. Sweet geezus. They are getting like 4 first round picks for the #3 pick? When you play the lotto, best to get as many tickets as you can. Better chances that one pays off. The value is completely different for that pick in this draft than it was in 2019. This is what the Jets gave up in the 18 to move up to 3. Picks 6, 37, 49 in 18 and their 2nd in 19. Where were the 1st round picks ? 3 seconds was it. I cannot believe none of you actually googled what the Jets gave up to move up in 2018, ya know the same year Barkley was drafted. Oh wait. That would be too easy and less fun than the speculative BS in this thread.
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2021 6:42:15 GMT -5
Point being, if a team is willing to trade up to the 3rd pick, then they likely have little reason to not give the same package of picks for the 2nd pick. Any deal given for the #3 pick becomes the floor for any deal for the #2 pick.
I don't get why this is even a question.
And the Jets set the floor . Again how many first round picks did they give up? See the post above this. It was 0
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 27, 2021 7:01:09 GMT -5
This is false and I have corrected you numerous times in the past when you made the same claims. Hey, TCHOF, which part is false? I thought I remember the bag of doughnuts story. Did some team offer the Giants 3 firsts? Or is DG really Joe Judge's errand boy now? Dave admitted in an interview with Mike Francesca that he did get a reasonable offer for the #2 pick. Dave has also admitted that once the Giants were on the clock (when you would expect offers to intensify) he told his staff not to take any calls, which is an indefensible move. miked knows all this ... just doesn’t fit in with his pro-Dave narrative
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Post by jb456 on Mar 27, 2021 7:03:25 GMT -5
Hey, TCHOF, which part is false? I thought I remember the bag of doughnuts story. Did some team offer the Giants 3 firsts? Or is DG really Joe Judge's errand boy now? Dave admitted in an interview with Mike Francesca that he did get a reasonable offer for the #2 pick. Dave has also admitted that once the Giants were on the clock (when you would expect offers to intensify) he told his staff not to take any calls, which is an indefensible move. Thanks for the info. I guess now we would have to speculate what a reasonable offer is. Also, not taking calls would be idiotic no matter how much you like a player.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 27, 2021 7:05:10 GMT -5
Dave admitted in an interview with Mike Francesca that he did get a reasonable offer for the #2 pick. Dave has also admitted that once the Giants were on the clock (when you would expect offers to intensify) he told his staff not to take any calls, which is an indefensible move. Thanks for the info. I guess now we would have to speculate what a reasonable offer is. Also, not taking calls would be idiotic no matter how much you like a player. Right? I mean, what’s the downside to listening?
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 27, 2021 7:07:16 GMT -5
Dave admitted in an interview with Mike Francesca that he did get a reasonable offer for the #2 pick. Dave has also admitted that once the Giants were on the clock (when you would expect offers to intensify) he told his staff not to take any calls, which is an indefensible move. Thanks for the info. I guess now we would have to speculate what a reasonable offer is. Also, not taking calls would be idiotic no matter how much you like a player. Ben Albright (who is a pretty dialed-in guy) said at the time that the Broncos offered the Giants their 2019 first rounder to move up from 5 to 2. Maybe that was the “reasonable” deal? Who knows
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2021 7:11:45 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. I guess now we would have to speculate what a reasonable offer is. Also, not taking calls would be idiotic no matter how much you like a player. Ben Albright (who is a pretty dialed-in guy) said at the time that the Broncos offered the Giants their 2019 first rounder to move up from 5 to 2. Maybe that was the “reasonable” deal? Who knows Just by what the Jets did. There were no bidding wars or "Wow" market in 18.
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2021 7:28:34 GMT -5
Reason #1848483893 We should have traded back instead of getting Barkley. Sweet geezus. They are getting like 4 first round picks for the #3 pick? When you play the lotto, best to get as many tickets as you can. Better chances that one pays off. The value is completely different for that pick in this draft than it was in 2019. Exactly top of the draft picks are like the commodities markets. They fluctuate with the quality and supply of the product.
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Post by roundabout on Mar 27, 2021 7:29:04 GMT -5
4 went in the top 10 in 2018. You can speculate all you want about this upcoming draft. If these 4 go in the top 10 then those teams get what they deserve. Lawrence and Zach Wilson are the only 2 that are close to being worthy of a top 10 pick.
And many considered Darnold the best QB prospect in that draft. Not every player works out. The ultimate point is that the #2 pick in that draft is worth more than the #3 pick in this draft. It's pretty basic math. And that draft had many teams desperate for QB's.
Im my memory serves me, the Jests were the only team trading up. No other team felt the need to trade up. They traded 3 2s. We just had a team mortgage their entire future with a trade and another trade 2 1sts to get to 6. This year is significantly different than 2018. Who knows, additional trades could happen. No one was coming close to offering the Giants 3 1sts and a 4th. Maybe it's different because of having a QB on a 5 year rookie contract is 'now' the most important thing to do; now that the QB market has reset at about 40 mill a year for a franchise QB crippling teams future salary caps
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Post by jb456 on Mar 27, 2021 7:51:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. I guess now we would have to speculate what a reasonable offer is. Also, not taking calls would be idiotic no matter how much you like a player. Ben Albright (who is a pretty dialed-in guy) said at the time that the Broncos offered the Giants their 2019 first rounder to move up from 5 to 2. Maybe that was the “reasonable” deal? Who knows That seems reasonable but I don't blame DG dor staying pat. I would have probably taken that deal but it isn't in the same universe as that multi first round pick by the 49rs.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 27, 2021 8:47:40 GMT -5
Ben Albright (who is a pretty dialed-in guy) said at the time that the Broncos offered the Giants their 2019 first rounder to move up from 5 to 2. Maybe that was the “reasonable” deal? Who knows Just by what the Jets did. There were no bidding wars or "Wow" market in 18. You wouldn’t have taken the Jets deal to move down to 6?
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2021 8:54:43 GMT -5
Just by what the Jets did. There were no bidding wars or "Wow" market in 18. You wouldn’t have taken the Jets deal to move down to 6? No I would not have. But I am a make them pay for it kind of guy. Would you have? Would you have trashed the GM for giving it away? IMO: ( the entire board would have) I could have seen that happening. Just by the Delusions of Grandeur in this thread. This thread would have been exactly the same if we made the same deal the Jets made. F-en GM sucks he gave that pick away.
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Post by McCherry on Mar 27, 2021 9:29:17 GMT -5
Your memory is all wrong on this. He said the offers they received were equivalent to a bad of donuts and a pretzel. He never said he wasn't taking offers, he said he wasn't listening to any more bad ones. Nobody was giving 3 first rounders to move the #2 or they would’ve taken it in half a second. Your definition of Dave's role and power changes with the wind, one day he's making decisions for the entire franchise, the next he's a lowly scout for Joe Judge. Give it up with this nonsense already. This is false and I have corrected you numerous times in the past when you made the same claims. Sorry dad. But you have a selective memory too.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 27, 2021 9:32:34 GMT -5
...and you know this how?
Was it during the time Dave said he didn't answer the phone?
Dave's quote about the quality of the offers we received is well known. Hey, I would've loved to have gotten 3 first round picks to move out the second that year. So would Gettleman and every member of the Giants front office. Gettleman has contradicted his statements and lied often. Can’t believe anything he says.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 27, 2021 9:33:35 GMT -5
You wouldn’t have taken the Jets deal to move down to 6? No I would not have. But I am a make them pay for it kind of guy. Would you have? Would you have trashed the GM for giving it away? IMO: ( the entire board would have) I could have seen that happening. Just by the Delusions of Grandeur in this thread. This thread would have been exactly the same if we made the same deal the Jets made. F-en GM sucks he gave that pick away. disagree- that move would have been brilliant considering the team wanted to keep Eli
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2021 9:41:46 GMT -5
No I would not have. But I am a make them pay for it kind of guy. Would you have? Would you have trashed the GM for giving it away? IMO: ( the entire board would have) I could have seen that happening. Just by the Delusions of Grandeur in this thread. This thread would have been exactly the same if we made the same deal the Jets made. F-en GM sucks he gave that pick away. disagree- that move would have been brilliant considering the team wanted to keep Eli I do not see it that way . This thread is a testament to the temperature of the board.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 27, 2021 9:41:52 GMT -5
This is false and I have corrected you numerous times in the past when you made the same claims. Hey, TCHOF, which part is false? I thought I remember the bag of doughnuts story. Did some team offer the Giants 3 firsts? Or is DG really Joe Judge's errand boy now? Gettleman told the room there was no reason to pick up the phone which was ringing. Fans should know this by now. Kinda shocking some don’t know.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 27, 2021 9:45:37 GMT -5
disagree- that move would have been brilliant considering the team wanted to keep Eli I do not see it that way . This thread is a testament to the temperature of the board. How about the temperature of the nation regarding that draft, the ridicule of Gettleman along with his stellar 15 wins in 3 years? The Colts made a brilliant trade while the Giants did nothing. That’s a pretty miserable temp some are defending.
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Post by TEM on Mar 27, 2021 9:49:50 GMT -5
I do not see it that way . This thread is a testament to the temperature of the board. How about the temperature of the nation regarding that draft, the ridicule of Gettleman along with his stellar 15 wins in 3 years? The Colts made a brilliant trade while the Giants did nothing. That’s a pretty miserable temp some are defending. When you compared it to what to what the Dolphins just received. The Colts were Fleeced. 3 seconds compared to 3 firsts is not even in the same universe. Brilliant is not the word I would have used.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 27, 2021 9:53:00 GMT -5
How about the temperature of the nation regarding that draft, the ridicule of Gettleman along with his stellar 15 wins in 3 years? The Colts made a brilliant trade while the Giants did nothing. That’s a pretty miserable temp some are defending. When you compared it to what to what the Dolphins just received. The Colts were Fleeced. 3 seconds compared to 3 firsts is not even in the same universe. Brilliant is not the word I would have used. one has nothing to do with the other. You honestly can’t see it.
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