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Post by McCherry on Mar 27, 2021 20:39:46 GMT -5
For the second pick you don't take reasonable offers, you take amazing, unrefusable offers. Like 3 first-round picks....If a team was serious about moving up, they would've done it before the Giants were on the clock. And for 3 first-rounders, Gettleman would've thrown in his firstborn, on the clock or not. It's a silly speculation because as we saw when the Jets moved up, the value for the pick wasn't there. Which you’re ignoring because of your anti-Gettleman narrative. You think that it was a good decision for Gettleman to stop taking calls once he was on the clock? I don't lose sleep over it. I trust that when they said the offers were garbage, they had done their diligence and had no choice but to get on with it. I don't see the point in ruminating over a hypothetical scenario when we know the value wasn't there.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 27, 2021 20:42:54 GMT -5
You think that it was a good decision for Gettleman to stop taking calls once he was on the clock? I don't lose sleep over it. I trust that when they said the offers were garbage, they had done their diligence and had no choice but to get on with it. I don't see the point in ruminating over a hypothetical scenario when we know the value wasn't there. It's like arguing with a 6 year old. the 2nd pick in the draft in a QB heavy draft has HUGE value.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 27, 2021 20:50:43 GMT -5
You think that it was a good decision for Gettleman to stop taking calls once he was on the clock? I don't lose sleep over it. I trust that when they said the offers were garbage, they had done their diligence and had no choice but to get on with it. I don't see the point in ruminating over a hypothetical scenario when we know the value wasn't there. You don’t know the value wasn’t there because you didn’t pick up the phone ....
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Post by McCherry on Mar 27, 2021 21:22:32 GMT -5
I don't lose sleep over it. I trust that when they said the offers were garbage, they had done their diligence and had no choice but to get on with it. I don't see the point in ruminating over a hypothetical scenario when we know the value wasn't there. You don’t know the value wasn’t there because you didn’t pick up the phone .... We do know that nobody was giving up anything substantial for Sam Darnold. 3 years later we know why.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 28, 2021 6:58:31 GMT -5
You don’t know the value wasn’t there because you didn’t pick up the phone .... We do know that nobody was giving up anything substantial for Sam Darnold. 3 years later we know why. You’re just making stuff up to justify an absolutely asinine decision by Gettleman to instruct his people not to pick up the phone. Keep defending the indefensible
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 28, 2021 7:22:44 GMT -5
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 28, 2021 9:21:58 GMT -5
No defending him yet you can bet “very reasonable offer” will need to be defined. Recently it was brought to our attention players selected in Round 2 are not impact players so . . . you know.
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Post by McCherry on Mar 28, 2021 10:22:51 GMT -5
We do know that nobody was giving up anything substantial for Sam Darnold. 3 years later we know why. You’re just making stuff up to justify an absolutely asinine decision by Gettleman to instruct his people not to pick up the phone. Keep defending the indefensible What am I making up? Your'e the one obsessing over a trade that was never offered. Who is this player you think teams were dying to trade up for?
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 28, 2021 10:44:42 GMT -5
You’re just making stuff up to justify an absolutely asinine decision by Gettleman to instruct his people not to pick up the phone. Keep defending the indefensible What am I making up? Your'e the one obsessing over a trade that was never offered. Who is this player you think teams were dying to trade up for? Ask Dave. He was the one that got the “very reasonable offer” and then ripped the phone out of the wall. Next you’ll be defending the Jonathan Stewart signing ... lol
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Post by McCherry on Mar 28, 2021 10:50:18 GMT -5
What am I making up? Your'e the one obsessing over a trade that was never offered. Who is this player you think teams were dying to trade up for? Ask Dave. He was the one that got the “very reasonable offer” and then ripped the phone out of the wall. Next you’ll be defending the Jonathan Stewart signing ... lol I never saw you or Tony Soprano as a "lol" guy.
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 30, 2021 6:57:38 GMT -5
I like Saquon as a player and a person....But it's like a Cowboys fan saying they never should have traded Herschel Walker. Is Saquon worth all those picks 3 years into his contract? You never know. How did the Chargers do with the haul they got for giving us Eli?
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 30, 2021 7:01:44 GMT -5
This draft has more QB's projected in the first round and the top 10 is far deeper than 2018 overall. The fact we didn't even receive anything remotely close to what the Dolphins got tells you the difference in value between the picks right there. ...and you know this how?
Was it during the time Dave said he didn't answer the phone?
How is it everyone knows Dave’s a bullshitter and yet everyone takes him at his word?
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 30, 2021 9:03:32 GMT -5
How is it everyone knows Dave’s a bullshitter and yet everyone takes him at his word? Dave does BS the fans and he should, he doesn't answer to us(officially) . His peers ,Owners,(most) players and Coach's trust him.
All I know is the guy has made a living in the NFL for a long time.
I find the second-guessing to be a rather useless pursuit but I get it, some guys are into that stuff.
Remember when a loss on stayed with you well into Monday? Well now a non-trade in the draft can stay with people for years.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 30, 2021 9:07:29 GMT -5
...and you know this how?
Was it during the time Dave said he didn't answer the phone?
How is it everyone knows Dave’s a bullshitter and yet everyone takes him at his word? Because in this case, there is no reason to lie. As a matter of fact, it made him look foolish.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 30, 2021 9:10:56 GMT -5
Dave does BS the fans and he should, he doesn't answer to us(officially) . His peers ,Owners,(most) players and Coach's trust him.
All I know is the guy has made a living in the NFL for a long time.
I find the second-guessing to be a rather useless pursuit but I get it, some guys are into that stuff.
Remember when a loss on stayed with you well into Monday? Well now a non-trade in the draft can stay with people for years.
Rosie, the reason it's hard to let it go is because our losing since has been historic. If there was even modest success, like a 9-7 season mixed in, the bitter taste wouldn't be as profound.
So we look at that failure in his first draft decision, as the foundation of the consequent losing. In other words, it's part of why we're here right now.
Ultimately, 15-33 in unacceptable. And on a Giants message board, folks are going to explore how we got here.
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 30, 2021 10:11:44 GMT -5
Because in this case, there is no reason to lie. As a matter of fact, it made him look foolish.
I disagree MS. The Giants knew full well the selection would be second guessed so they countered by trying to make it seem like it was a no-brainer. It's probably the same reason why the Giants didn't hesitate (and haven't used the entire clock for their opening draft picks going back to the days of Reese) as they obviously felt they were making an impression with that tactic.
As I've said, as it stands now they don't look good, but the story of Saquon and the Giants is not over yet so I have to reserve comment.
Rosie, the reason it's hard to let it go is because our losing since has been historic. If there was even modest success, like a 9-7 season mixed in, the bitter taste wouldn't be as profound.
So we look at that failure in his first draft decision, as the foundation of the consequent losing. In other words, it's part of why we're here right now.
Ultimately, 15-33 in unacceptable. And on a Giants message board, folks are going to explore how we got here.
Giants fans must realize that while the ultimate blame absolutely goes to the GM, the decision to try to win with Eli was not his alone. Just as he does with Joe Judge, Dave worked in concert with Pat Shurmur studying the tape and together they developed their plan how to move forward.
Everyone knows it was a mistake, and there's a reason why Pat lost his job while Dave was retained.
To sit here three years later complaining about it makes no sense IMO. It's over. The Giants have moved on with a new feel - a new culture if you will. Joe and his staff and Dave and his seem to be working well together.
If the Giants are getting every guy Joe Judge wants as you've stated, then we need to credit Dave and his guys for making that happen for Joe.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Mar 30, 2021 15:55:10 GMT -5
I like Saquon as a player and a person....But it's like a Cowboys fan saying they never should have traded Herschel Walker. Is Saquon worth all those picks 3 years into his contract? You never know. How did the Chargers do with the haul they got for giving us Eli? Phillips Rivers and Shaun Marion for Eli........Remove two lucky catches and this is a whole other convo..
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 30, 2021 18:33:18 GMT -5
You never know. How did the Chargers do with the haul they got for giving us Eli? Phillips Rivers and Shaun Marion for Eli........Remove two lucky catches and this is a whole other convo.. Obviously a great trade now. But how are we having a whole other convo? Do you think the Chargers would have won a championship? That seems like quite the stretch.
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 30, 2021 18:46:18 GMT -5
You never know. How did the Chargers do with the haul they got for giving us Eli? Phillips Rivers and Shaun Marion for Eli........Remove two lucky catches and this is a whole other convo..
It is what it is.
The Chargers got a few extra draft picks and we got 2 Lombardi's.
Seems like a there's a lesson to be learned except we all know the past doesn't equal the future.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 30, 2021 18:47:31 GMT -5
You never know. How did the Chargers do with the haul they got for giving us Eli? Phillips Rivers and Shaun Marion for Eli........Remove two lucky catches and this is a whole other convo.. Ridiculous. If you’re going to say something so absurd, at least get the names right
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Post by Kruunch on Mar 30, 2021 18:51:45 GMT -5
Phillips Rivers and Shaun Marion for Eli........Remove two lucky catches and this is a whole other convo.. Ridiculous I think it’s ridiculous too, especially since Shawn Marion is a retired basketball player.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 30, 2021 19:01:10 GMT -5
I think it’s ridiculous too, especially since Shawn Marion is a retired basketball player. That's why he was so tough to cover in the red zone
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Post by devilsadvocate on Mar 31, 2021 11:06:35 GMT -5
...and you know this how?
Was it during the time Dave said he didn't answer the phone?
How many QBs going in the top 10? At least 4 right, worst case 3, up to 5? Was Darnold ever considered a generational QB? This year >>>>>>>>>>> 2018. How do I know? Look at these trades. The proof is in the pudding. There is only one generational qb in the draft this year and they are going #1 so that does not impact picks from 2 onward. The rest of the QBs are a shot in the dark just like every other year. Are you really saying that Fields (from a school that notoriously produces busts at the QB position), Wilson (a one year flash), Trey Lance (FCS product who played 1 game this year) and Mac Jones (efficient passer but limited athleticism) are generational? No F'n way. Each and every one of those guys could be a complete bust and GM/coach killer.
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Post by jb456 on Mar 31, 2021 14:33:15 GMT -5
How many QBs going in the top 10? At least 4 right, worst case 3, up to 5? Was Darnold ever considered a generational QB? This year >>>>>>>>>>> 2018. How do I know? Look at these trades. The proof is in the pudding. There is only one generational qb in the draft this year and they are going #1 so that does not impact picks from 2 onward. The rest of the QBs are a shot in the dark just like every other year. Are you really saying that Fields (from a school that notoriously produces busts at the QB position), Wilson (a one year flash), Trey Lance (FCS product who played 1 game this year) and Mac Jones (efficient passer but limited athleticism) are generational? No F'n way. Each and every one of those guys could be a complete bust and GM/coach killer. Our opinions mean very little. Supply and demand has already told us that 2021 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2018 and we don't even know if the trades are done yet. Economics trumps all....
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 31, 2021 14:46:24 GMT -5
There is only one generational qb in the draft this year and they are going #1 so that does not impact picks from 2 onward. The rest of the QBs are a shot in the dark just like every other year. Are you really saying that Fields (from a school that notoriously produces busts at the QB position), Wilson (a one year flash), Trey Lance (FCS product who played 1 game this year) and Mac Jones (efficient passer but limited athleticism) are generational? No F'n way. Each and every one of those guys could be a complete bust and GM/coach killer. Our opinions mean very little. Supply and demand has already told us that 2021 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2018 and we don't even know if the trades are done yet. Economics trumps all.... Clearly you are unable to understand that because this happened this year that guarantees that there were multiple offers available in 2018 that were all significantly better than this 2021 offer. How much more undeniable proof do you need? It's just a fact, I don't know why you can't see it. It's so obvious after all.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 31, 2021 14:51:02 GMT -5
How many QBs going in the top 10? At least 4 right, worst case 3, up to 5? Was Darnold ever considered a generational QB? This year >>>>>>>>>>> 2018. How do I know? Look at these trades. The proof is in the pudding. There is only one generational qb in the draft this year and they are going #1 so that does not impact picks from 2 onward. The rest of the QBs are a shot in the dark just like every other year. Are you really saying that Fields (from a school that notoriously produces busts at the QB position), Wilson (a one year flash), Trey Lance (FCS product who played 1 game this year) and Mac Jones (efficient passer but limited athleticism) are generational? No F'n way. Each and every one of those guys could be a complete bust and GM/coach killer. May I please know the definition of "generational talent?".
Isn't that a player that comes once in every generation? If one or more come out every year...aren't they "annual talents?"
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Post by jb456 on Mar 31, 2021 16:35:21 GMT -5
There is only one generational qb in the draft this year and they are going #1 so that does not impact picks from 2 onward. The rest of the QBs are a shot in the dark just like every other year. Are you really saying that Fields (from a school that notoriously produces busts at the QB position), Wilson (a one year flash), Trey Lance (FCS product who played 1 game this year) and Mac Jones (efficient passer but limited athleticism) are generational? No F'n way. Each and every one of those guys could be a complete bust and GM/coach killer. May I please know the definition of "generational talent?".
Isn't that a player that comes once in every generation? If one or more come out every year...aren't they "annual talents?"
2018 QB's weren't coveted. Supply and demand. Eco 101. There is a high probability that none of these QB's are generational or even top 5. With that said, what team mortgaged or offer their entire future in 2018 for the Giants #2 pick for Darnold? Barkley is a Giant, I didn't like the pick when it happened but I accepted it. It's time to move on.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Apr 5, 2021 10:50:00 GMT -5
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- If New York Giants general manager Dave Gettleman needed a reminder of his past indiscretions, Friday's action around the NFL should have done the trick. Let's begin with this disclaimer (one that I've repeated countless times over the past three years): This has almost nothing to do with running back Saquon Barkley, a fabulous performer who plays a grueling position that has already taken its toll on his pro career. He just so happens to be the face behind a string of mistakes that have led us to this point, where the Giants have 15 wins and zero winning seasons over the past three years. It's relevant right now because the Miami Dolphins showed everyone Friday what a top-five pick can be worth in what is perceived as a strong NFL draft for quarterbacks. The Dolphins traded the No. 3 overall pick to the San Francisco 49ers for the No. 12 selection this year, a first- and third-round pick in 2022 and a first-round pick in 2023. That's quite the haul, one that gives Miami flexibility to make all kinds of corresponding moves. For instance, this one: The Dolphins then traded back up to No. 6 overall using some of the assets they had just obtained. Now the Dolphins can get their playmaker (or whichever non-quarterback they are targeting) this year after having collected more valuable draft resources. Good chance they get their target playmaker considering it would be an upset if three of the first five picks are not quarterbacks. General manager Dave Gettleman has seen the Giants go 15-33 over the past three seasons. AP Photo/Seth Wenig A move like this would have made a ton of sense if the Giants had gone this route during the 2018 NFL draft -- when they held the No. 2 overall pick -- assuming they weren't going to take a quarterback. Which they weren't, because of their love for Barkley and their emotional attachment to former QB Eli Manning. They could have traded down for offensive lineman Quenton Nelson -- which the Indianapolis Colts did when they swapped pick No. 3 for No. 6 with the New York Jets -- or perhaps to another spot inside the top five where they might have still had a chance to land Barkley. The Jets were undoubtedly taking a quarterback; they eventually drafted Sam Darnold. So many viable options for the Giants. None taken. The decision to not take a quarterback was debatable on its own, especially considering the organization decided to roll it back another season with a 37-year-old Manning. The Giants put off their franchise quarterback decision for another year before settling on Daniel Jones, selecting him with the No. 6 overall pick in 2019. But in 2018, Gettleman was in love with Barkley and haughtily admitted afterward in a team website report that "once Cleveland took [QB] Baker [Mayfield at No. 1 overall], I told our guys don't even waste your time [picking up the phone]. We're taking Saquon." Huh!?!? 2021 Free Agency | Giants What you need to know about the New York Giants: • Giants' free-agent signings » • Tracker: Latest signings and news » • Grading big moves » | Top 100 FAs » • Free-agency coverage » | More NFL » Reminder: Quarterbacks Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson and Darnold were on the board. All were highly regarded at the time. Darnold, Rosen and Allen were selected in the top 10 along with Mayfield, and Jackson joined them in the first round. It's revisionist history at this point, but in their first three years in the NFL, Allen was an MVP candidate for the Buffalo Bills this past season and the Baltimore Ravens' Jackson already has one of those trophies on his mantel. Those decisions in that 2018 draft are major factors in why the Giants are where they are, spending big in NFL free agency this offseason to try to get back to respectability. The Giants have gone 5-11, 4-12 and 6-10 since that draft. The misappropriation of assets in the 2018 draft hasn't been their only misstep, it's just the highest-profile gaffe. Even the Giants realize it and have readily admitted to some of the mistakes -- draft and free agency included. "There's no defending the record. There's no defending that at all," Giants owner John Mara said recently. "We haven't won enough games. But listen, we made some miscalculations in 2018 with some of our personnel decisions." www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/62212/dolphins-deals-make-giants-look-silly-for-standing-pat-in-2018-draftin a nutshell. Even the owner recognizes the errors that were made....The fact that fans don't get it matters not.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Apr 5, 2021 10:53:52 GMT -5
INEXCUSABLE. He was in love with Barkley and killed us in the draft for a RB.
No running back will EVER be worth a #2 pick EVER AGAIN. I promise, you will never see another RB in the top 5 of the draft. Thank Dave for that. No GM would ever do such a dumb move and them compound the dumb move by signing Johnathan Stewart as a mentor with Gallman just sitting there at his locker...
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Post by Sarcasman on Apr 5, 2021 11:54:11 GMT -5
They totally should have traded that pick for 6 1s and 12 2's.
They could have an entire All Pro OL and DL by now. Not to mention a pass rusher or three.
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