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Post by Kruunch on Jul 6, 2021 15:05:48 GMT -5
I think Jones has all the tools physically, to be a very good QB, certainly as good as Eli was, maybe better. To me, question #1 is can he control the turnovers and keep trending better in that area, like he did last year compared to his rookie year. Pocket awareness plays a big part in this as well. Question #2 is can he be the type of QB that can play with poise in critical moments and make winning plays in those moments. That, to me, separates a lot of QB's. If he can do the above 2 things, I really think he has the rest of the tools to be a borderline elite QB in this league. If he can't do those two things...he won't be anymore than he is right now. Better than Eli? That’s blasphemy.. Quick, say three Hail Marys.. Last fan who uttered those words was Bleedin Blue Since ‘62. And he fell off the face of the Earth..
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Post by IrishMike on Jul 6, 2021 15:18:09 GMT -5
I come here for different opinions. If everyone agreed with me I'd never come back lol. Absolutely agree with you yet again .... I change my mind then.
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Post by IrishMike on Jul 6, 2021 15:28:11 GMT -5
People don't like Daniel Jones so we (the fans) do know what he is already? Seems strange to me. See the thing is from day 1 the media was against Jones. Not because he was a rapping WR but because he was not who they thought we should pick. Because DG didn't pick a QB the year prior in the "best QB class ever" and then when he did pick a QB it was a kid from Duke not from Ohio State.
Those same media folks that were against Daniel Jones and DG are the ones predicting us to be in the bottom half of the league. No we don't know what Jones is and damn sure should not base that decision on what these media folks predict. I have my own eyes and I'll let them decide thank you. We get it, you don't think we can have success with Jones, I look forward to him proving you wrong.
That best QB class ever thing just never gets old. And still some folks listen to those shills. smh I agree. The funny thing is the year we were drafting Jones do you remember what people were saying? "No way we draft him, next year is going to be the best QB class ever".
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nyg2
Starter
Posts: 4,566
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Post by nyg2 on Jul 6, 2021 15:30:36 GMT -5
I'll give you credit on your position, you've been consistent... consistently crazy.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 6, 2021 15:40:24 GMT -5
That best QB class ever thing just never gets old. And still some folks listen to those shills. smh I agree. The funny thing is the year we were drafting Jones do you remember what people were saying? "No way we draft him, next year is going to be the best QB class ever". I still think DG did everything back asswards. Jones wasn’t a “can’t miss” prospect. I’d rather have hired a journeyman QB ala Fitz while we continued to build the team properly from the inside out and then draft our QB once all the pieces were in place for that QB to succeed and/or sink or swim. It’s a huge advantage to have a QB on a rookie contract and so far that’s been wasted, along with Barkleys contract. I’ll be damned, after I posted this I clicked on Yahoos home page and this came up. Not trying to start anything, it was just ironic. www.yahoo.com/sports/giants-select-daniel-jones-replacement-155509251.html
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Post by thetruth on Jul 6, 2021 15:48:48 GMT -5
I'll give you credit on your position, you've been consistent... consistently crazy. Well, he also bet me $1000 USD that Jamar Chase (w/o missing more than 2 games) wont get 700 yards in 17 games this next year. So, what do you expect?
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Post by GameTime on Jul 6, 2021 16:12:12 GMT -5
Jones is not yet what he will eventually be. Accepting his limitations now is ok but his story is not nearly finished IMO. Actually there is no need to accept his limitations because if he cant work it out then he's done. There are no flaws that he cannot improve upon. In the NFL.....3 years to prove yourself.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Jul 6, 2021 16:13:34 GMT -5
I think Jones has all the tools physically, to be a very good QB, certainly as good as Eli was, maybe better. To me, question #1 is can he control the turnovers and keep trending better in that area, like he did last year compared to his rookie year. Pocket awareness plays a big part in this as well. Question #2 is can he be the type of QB that can play with poise in critical moments and make winning plays in those moments. That, to me, separates a lot of QB's. If he can do the above 2 things, I really think he has the rest of the tools to be a borderline elite QB in this league. If he can't do those two things...he won't be anymore than he is right now. Better than Eli? That’s blasphemy.. Quick, say three Hail Marys.. Last fan who uttered those words was Bleedin Blue Since ‘62. And he fell off the face of the Earth.. I know I stepped over the line....what was I thinking. Honestly, physically he does have the tools to be better than Eli, he is a better athlete. The question is mentally...it will be difficult to be better than Eli when it comes to that.
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Post by DJones19 on Jul 6, 2021 17:19:58 GMT -5
I think Jones has all the tools physically, to be a very good QB, certainly as good as Eli was, maybe better. To me, question #1 is can he control the turnovers and keep trending better in that area, like he did last year compared to his rookie year. Pocket awareness plays a big part in this as well. Question #2 is can he be the type of QB that can play with poise in critical moments and make winning plays in those moments. That, to me, separates a lot of QB's. If he can do the above 2 things, I really think he has the rest of the tools to be a borderline elite QB in this league. If he can't do those two things...he won't be anymore than he is right now. #2 - I think Jones showed in his very 1st game has the stuff which makes a legend. 4 TDs in a come from behind victory. Fumbles and durability have been a problem...glad we invested in a better backup QB in Glennon. Don't want to depend on the backup, but a good backup QB sure came in handy in 1990 when Hostetler won a Super Bowl. You mentioned Eli..oh no...you may awaken some people
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 6, 2021 17:35:05 GMT -5
I think Jones has all the tools physically, to be a very good QB, certainly as good as Eli was, maybe better. To me, question #1 is can he control the turnovers and keep trending better in that area, like he did last year compared to his rookie year. Pocket awareness plays a big part in this as well. Question #2 is can he be the type of QB that can play with poise in critical moments and make winning plays in those moments. That, to me, separates a lot of QB's. If he can do the above 2 things, I really think he has the rest of the tools to be a borderline elite QB in this league. If he can't do those two things...he won't be anymore than he is right now. Good post.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 6, 2021 17:46:16 GMT -5
OK folks. Spending spree is over. The team looks solid. The defense is very strong both up front and in the secondary. Saquan will be back. The weapons are in place.
So why are we still picked by many to be in the bottom half of the league? Answer:.....Daniel Jones.
So my view is that we pretty much DO know what DJ is. To me his upside comparison is a guy like Alex Smith. That's not an insult. I like Alex Smith. Don't forget at the time of his horrible injury the Redskins were in 1st place. You could win with Alex Smith.......and I think we can win with Daniel Jones.
But let's face it, what we need from DJ is to be a solid game manager. He needs to make the right calls. Make the throws when they're there, and get some first downs with his feet....As I said....Alex Smith.
He needs lot of weapons to succeed and he has them. DJ will never be a premier NFL QB. That ship has sailed as far as I'm concerned. His pocket awareness probably won't get much better. But I DO think we can still win with him. He just needs to not stink....and I don't think he will.
I see 11 wins this year without crippling injuries. I think Jones can function with this offense. And that's all I expect. I expect him to just run the offense and not cost us games.
To me, that is what Daniel Jones is. He's never going to be elite. He's probably never going to be anything but barely better than an average starting QB. But we don't need him to be....at least not now.
If DJ's upside is Alex Smith, we'll be looking for another QB in 2022. Guys I'm thinking Jones is more like Cousins of the Vikes. Good games and stinkers. But has that arm that just makes you want to give him one more season to see if he puts it together. Now the Vikes with their offense is a dangerous unit. They always have potential to score. A powerhouse run game and 2 real good WR's. And now we got their TE. I'm thinking we could be similar. I do like the comparisons though of Alex Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Fitz even more so than Smith.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Jul 6, 2021 17:57:11 GMT -5
I think Jones has all the tools physically, to be a very good QB, certainly as good as Eli was, maybe better. To me, question #1 is can he control the turnovers and keep trending better in that area, like he did last year compared to his rookie year. Pocket awareness plays a big part in this as well. Question #2 is can he be the type of QB that can play with poise in critical moments and make winning plays in those moments. That, to me, separates a lot of QB's. If he can do the above 2 things, I really think he has the rest of the tools to be a borderline elite QB in this league. If he can't do those two things...he won't be anymore than he is right now. #2 - I think Jones showed in his very 1st game has the stuff which makes a legend. 4 TDs in a come from behind victory. Fumbles and durability have been a problem...glad we invested in a better backup QB in Glennon. Don't want to depend on the backup, but a good backup QB sure came in handy in 1990 when Hostetler won a Super Bowl. You mentioned Eli..oh no...you may awaken some people He just has to do it consistently. Even a guy like Fitzmagic can have "moments", but he can't do it consistently. That is what separates the best from the rest.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jul 6, 2021 18:04:48 GMT -5
I think Jones has all the tools physically, to be a very good QB, certainly as good as Eli was, maybe better. To me, question #1 is can he control the turnovers and keep trending better in that area, like he did last year compared to his rookie year. Pocket awareness plays a big part in this as well. Question #2 is can he be the type of QB that can play with poise in critical moments and make winning plays in those moments. That, to me, separates a lot of QB's. If he can do the above 2 things, I really think he has the rest of the tools to be a borderline elite QB in this league. If he can't do those two things...he won't be anymore than he is right now. #2 - I think Jones showed in his very 1st game has the stuff which makes a legend. 4 TDs in a come from behind victory. Fumbles and durability have been a problem...glad we invested in a better backup QB in Glennon. Don't want to depend on the backup, but a good backup QB sure came in handy in 1990 when Hostetler won a Super Bowl. You mentioned Eli..oh no...you may awaken some people I was at that game. Not only did the Bucs get 2 fumbles from him, but also dropped 2 clean INTs on TD drives. Sure, DJ took advantage of it, but they were awful reads/ vision plays. That said, it was his very first game so whatever. He just has to improve on it, which I don't think he has yet.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 6, 2021 18:09:20 GMT -5
That best QB class ever thing just never gets old. And still some folks listen to those shills. smh I agree. The funny thing is the year we were drafting Jones do you remember what people were saying? "No way we draft him, next year is going to be the best QB class ever". I remember, I was one of those people saying that. I wanted Josh Allen the DE so bad I could taste it. Until we drafted Ojulari this season you might have heard me still griping from time to time. Don't hate Jones just don't love him or have confidence in him but am optimistic. Of course I root for him. I do think he is going to take a step up this year. Last year was unfair to judge him with that team and all that was going on around him. This year I think he takes a big step with a much better offense.
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 6, 2021 18:12:41 GMT -5
I'll give you credit on your position, you've been consistent... consistently crazy. Well, he also bet me $1000 USD that Jamar Chase (w/o missing more than 2 games) wont get 700 yards in 17 games this next year. So, what do you expect? lol … there is no chance he pays up on that bet
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Post by IrishMike on Jul 6, 2021 18:41:19 GMT -5
I still think DG did everything back asswards. Jones wasn’t a “can’t miss” prospect. I’d rather have hired a journeyman QB ala Fitz while we continued to build the team properly from the inside out and then draft our QB once all the pieces were in place for that QB to succeed and/or sink or swim. It’s a huge advantage to have a QB on a rookie contract and so far that’s been wasted, along with Barkleys contract. I’ll be damned, after I posted this I clicked on Yahoos home page and this came up. Not trying to start anything, it was just ironic. www.yahoo.com/sports/giants-select-daniel-jones-replacement-155509251.htmlLol I have seen the "Giants getting ready to draft Jones' replacement" since draft day this year. Makes me laugh each time.
The only thing with not drafting a QB until you get all the other pieces in place is that by then you tend to have a decent team and aren't picking in the bottom of the draft anymore. I said on draft night that if they believed in Jones they had to take him, if they didn't believe then pass on him. In the end if you have a chance to take a QB you believe in you gotta take the kid whether your other pieces are there or not.
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Post by IrishMike on Jul 6, 2021 18:44:57 GMT -5
I agree. The funny thing is the year we were drafting Jones do you remember what people were saying? "No way we draft him, next year is going to be the best QB class ever". I remember, I was one of those people saying that. I wanted Josh Allen the DE so bad I could taste it. Until we drafted Ojulari this season you might have heard me still griping from time to time. Don't hate Jones just don't love him or have confidence in him but am optimistic. Of course I root for him. I do think he is going to take a step up this year. Last year was unfair to judge him with that team and all that was going on around him. This year I think he takes a big step with a much better offense. I really wanted Josh Allen too. I wasn't online and someone was reading each pick as they came in. When it was down to Jones and Allen I was sick cause I wanted both and had no clue how the Giants would go. Big fan of Ojulari and I thought he would be gone by pick 20, then by pick 42, then pick 50 comes and he was still there I could not believe it. Was so glad we got him. Best pass rusher in the draft IMO (said this before the draft too).
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 6, 2021 18:49:32 GMT -5
I agree. The funny thing is the year we were drafting Jones do you remember what people were saying? "No way we draft him, next year is going to be the best QB class ever". I still think DG did everything back asswards. Jones wasn’t a “can’t miss” prospect. I’d rather have hired a journeyman QB ala Fitz while we continued to build the team properly from the inside out and then draft our QB once all the pieces were in place for that QB to succeed and/or sink or swim. It’s a huge advantage to have a QB on a rookie contract and so far that’s been wasted, along with Barkleys contract. I’ll be damned, after I posted this I clicked on Yahoos home page and this came up. Not trying to start anything, it was just ironic. www.yahoo.com/sports/giants-select-daniel-jones-replacement-155509251.htmlDuring the period of drafting to replace Eli, who exactly was a "can't miss" QB prospect? Or, more accurately, how many supposedly "can't miss" prospects were clearly misses? Bottom line is most rookie QBs need time to develop, talent around them, and patience from management.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 6, 2021 18:50:35 GMT -5
I remember, I was one of those people saying that. I wanted Josh Allen the DE so bad I could taste it. Until we drafted Ojulari this season you might have heard me still griping from time to time. Don't hate Jones just don't love him or have confidence in him but am optimistic. Of course I root for him. I do think he is going to take a step up this year. Last year was unfair to judge him with that team and all that was going on around him. This year I think he takes a big step with a much better offense. I really wanted Josh Allen too. I wasn't online and someone was reading each pick as they came in. When it was down to Jones and Allen I was sick cause I wanted both and had no clue how the Giants would go. Big fan of Ojulari and I thought he would be gone by pick 20, then by pick 42, then pick 50 comes and he was still there I could not believe it. Was so glad we got him. Best pass rusher in the draft IMO (said this before the draft too). I was also wanting us to draft Josh Allen.
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Post by Jomo on Jul 6, 2021 19:55:13 GMT -5
Ha, that's so true, I have no opinion .....but I do have good judgement which is why I stayed south for the winter. I have tickets for the Giants Dolphins game in Miami. I will also get north a couple of times this fall/winter and I will see at least one home game. Now, if I could only remember our QBs name.....Not even the Did You Know? Crew can help you with that one.. Davis Webb or Ryan Nassib?
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 6, 2021 20:07:07 GMT -5
Not even the Did You Know? Crew can help you with that one.. Davis Webb or Ryan Nassib? You’re close. And close I mean Neptune to Earth close. Davis Webb is so far down the Bills depth chart that Jack Kemp has more of a shot of playing. As for Ryan Nassib.. He should be a trivia question. “I never started an NFL game. And have only 10 pass attempts to my name. Yet, I have one touchdown. Who am I?”
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 6, 2021 20:12:15 GMT -5
Not even the Did You Know? Crew can help you with that one.. Davis Webb or Ryan Nassib? lol … I used to crush Davis Webb on here and people would go crazy. When “the pressure got to him” in his first preseason start, I knew it was over. But that big notebook ….
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 6, 2021 20:23:22 GMT -5
Davis Webb or Ryan Nassib? lol … I used to crush Davis Webb on here and people would go crazy. When “the pressure got to him” in his first preseason start, I knew it was over. But that big notebook …. Webb couldn’t control a classroom of kindergartners. Let alone a bunch of rich men. Davis Webb folds faster than a bad poker hand.. I recall fans saying he should start. Thank God they don’t have a say in running the franchise.
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 6, 2021 20:24:34 GMT -5
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Post by McCherry on Jul 6, 2021 22:15:32 GMT -5
lol … I used to crush Davis Webb on here and people would go crazy. When “the pressure got to him” in his first preseason start, I knew it was over. But that big notebook …. Webb couldn’t control a classroom of kindergartners. Let alone a bunch of rich men. Davis Webb folds faster than a bad poker hand.. I recall fans saying he should start. Thank God they don’t have a say in running the franchise. At least Webb is still in the league. Nassib has been out of football since being cut after 2 seasons.
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Post by thetruth on Jul 7, 2021 0:13:55 GMT -5
Well, he also bet me $1000 USD that Jamar Chase (w/o missing more than 2 games) wont get 700 yards in 17 games this next year. So, what do you expect? lol … there is no chance he pays up on that bet haha, oh I know. But ill be sure to remind him
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Post by GameTime on Jul 7, 2021 5:16:29 GMT -5
lol … there is no chance he pays up on that bet haha, oh I know. But ill be sure to remind himwhich is the fun part...
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 7, 2021 5:21:46 GMT -5
Webb couldn’t control a classroom of kindergartners. Let alone a bunch of rich men. Davis Webb folds faster than a bad poker hand.. I recall fans saying he should start. Thank God they don’t have a say in running the franchise. At least Webb is still in the league. Nassib has been out of football since being cut after 2 seasons. Barely.. He has one foot in the door, the other in unemployment.
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 7, 2021 7:10:13 GMT -5
lol … there is no chance he pays up on that bet haha, oh I know. But ill be sure to remind him He’ll disappear the minute he loses
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Post by TEM on Jul 7, 2021 7:16:29 GMT -5
I don't see 11 wins, sorry. The problem as I see it is Getty. I simply don't trust the guy. The OL was not fixed, we didn't draft any nor did we pick up anyone (significant) in FA. Most of his draft choices are questionable. Perhaps some sleepers here and there but you need more than sleepers to field a contenting team..Jones is...who knows? Good 1st year and fell off a cliff in the 2nd..just can't have the TOs, its a team killer.. Well the D is better, but you have to score points to win and our O is the biggest question mark. We picked up a couple of shiny objects in FA but if Jones is running for his life or does his tackling dummy imitation, it renders those shiny objects moot. On the bright(er) side I think we will be better this year. Like two games IMO. Its ok but not good enough Why Morehead is correct in his assumptions. Here it is in cap spending . These Numbers have been statically true in the cap era. I have ran these number across all position groups in the study I did Statistically spending on position group being low has little impact unless it across the entire Group ( Offense or Defense) ( you can shift money around and still be effective) As long as you do not under spend. As it stands now The Giants are spending 90% of it cap utilization on Either Offence or Defense. That is fantastic. When the historic league average is 84% These Numbers will change slightly After the cut down. Qb spending inline with a 2 win team ( below league average) RB spending inline with a 13 win team ( above league average) WR spending inline with a 12 win team ( above league average ) TE spending inline with a 12 win team ( above league average) OL spending inline with a 15 win team ( above league average) Total Offensive spending inline with 13 win team ( above league average) IDL spending inline with a 11 win team (above league average ) Edge spending inline with a 4 win team (below league average) LB spending inline with a 6 win team (below league average) CB spending inline with a 13 win team (above league average) S spending inline with a 13 win team ( above league average ) Total Defensive spending inline with a 13 win team ( above league average) Dead cap , unused , and spent on special teams inline with a 15 win team When averaged out our cap utilization suggests 10.9 wins ( 11 wins) The is exactly what my statistical model suggested the optimal team spending should be targeted (11-12 wins)
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