|
|
Post by trueblueatnyc on Jul 6, 2021 10:45:29 GMT -5
I'm also very worried about Jones, especially after rewatching some games from last year. He has a similar problem as Eli in that he relies too much on his pre-snap read and makes up his mind where he's going with the ball. The problem is that, when the defense changes post-snap, he doesn't read it very well and still goes to what he read pre-snap. He doesn't adapt well when things go "off-script", and his pocket awareness is a part of that too, as the sliding and moving in the pocket requires a bit of ad-libbing. I also think the switch from Shurmers' offense to Garrett's really hurt him as well. Shurmer's scheme was very QB friendly and he understood that most QB's aren't able to quickly go through 3 or 4 reads (and often wont have the time to), and he would often build in schemes that would have man beaters on one side, and zone beaters on the other. Then the read becomes a little easier. If it's man, look left, if it's zone, look right. If the read is wrong, check it down. Much simpler progression. He is going to need to make some big strides this year. I never saw him as having a Mahomes or Rodgers type of ceiling. Thought maybe he can be like a Matt Stafford. Ideally, this year he'll be an efficient passer like Tannehill has become, but with more rushing ability. This is where you and I differ. I have seen him numerous times not read the defense right . Throw to the doubled guy and leave the receiver open in the zone Holding his D$$$. He has 2 recievers lined up on the left side. A Sot Corner Outside Corner and a Safety a few yards behind them . He only has one choice on this play. Throw it to the receiver the Safety is not shadowing. We have all seen him make the wrong throw in this situation. If he reads the Defense correct . He should know he is going to have a one on one either on the slant or the post. Watch this play against AZ make the video full screen fivethirtyeight.com/features/daniel-jones-hasnt-figured-out-zone-coverage-yet/Keep your eyes on the outside receiver ignore the rest of the play . Then re-watch and just concentrate on the QB . It appears he staring down his target ( a misread) from the moment he receives the snap . He was still doing this stuff in week 14. As I believe it is correctable. It needs to be done quickly. I don't think we are in disagreement here. You statement seems to support what I said. Jones makes up his mind where he is going with the ball before the snap. When the defense shows something different pre-snap, he doesn't adjust well. I think it's his biggest flaw really. You need to be able to read what the defense does after the ball is snapped. The example you give is a good one. He didn't read what the safety was doing once the ball was snapped. He made up his mind before hand and didn't adjust after. |
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 6, 2021 10:50:10 GMT -5
Imo its more about the oline being a question mark and no upgraded this off season and a 2nd year HC with no winning record (yet) They just drafted 3 of the projected starters and have a solid /good center they are not going to just skip by these guys they need to see what they have. People are projecting they will be bad they don't know that, most OL people who train Olinemen and or coach think the Giants might just be in a good spot, They have young guys like Nick Gates was waiting in the wings Kyle Murphy the center Guard from Florida. I can understand calling the OL a ? mark. |
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 6, 2021 10:55:15 GMT -5
.................and if his name was Sam Darnold? Both Jones and Darnold's careers seem on similar arcs. Difference is at this point the Giants realized they let the kid down by not addressing WR and have him growing up with the Offensive line they drafted. Darnold was where Jones was last year no talent young OL going into his 3rd year. Jones should have what he needs to see exactly what he can do going into his 3rd year. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2021 11:00:04 GMT -5
that’s fair but that’s why it’s a message board so we can express our thoughts on what he should be, obviously if he lights it up we know he’s the guy. As of now, I like what I’ve seen and contrary to most I thought he progressed last year...improving his pocket presence and limiting bad decisions. I attribute a lot of that to Judge, I’m sure Jones will have full clearance to sling it this year I come here for different opinions. If everyone agreed with me I'd never come back lol. Absolutely agree with you yet again ....  |
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Jul 6, 2021 12:15:25 GMT -5
Just when I thought we were done with the Daniel Jones threads.. They pull me back in..
Right now, his Giants career is on a ventilator. Good rookie season, followed by a shit show. No need for excuses, heard them all. He’s a big boy, time to accept big boy criticism. Last season is a year I want to forget. The offense was in quick sand on a weekly basis, and the end zone was the Bermuda Triangle. When you can only muster a pathetic 17 points a game, in a league that gives you a touchdown handicap. You have serious issues, and that includes the quarterback.
This whole offseason was designed to help our quarterback. I’m sure the Giants gave it a code name operation Jones needs help. We wined and dined Golladay away. We signed often injured John Ross, we drafted Kadarius Toney. We also signed veteran Kyle Rudolph from the Vikings, and signed two offensive lineman for depth. Shit, we also got hot shot offensive mind Russ Callaway from LSU. As you can see, the Giants made it priority one, two and maybe three to give the much needed pieces for Jones.
Everyone is backing the kid, as they should. He’s a Giant, if he played for another team we would all be laughing at him. However, he has a lot to prove this year. This is the most important season as a quarterback. This is where teams either commit to you, or not. Jones knows this, and I’m sure he’s doing whatever it takes to make the decision easier for the Giants. His turnovers have to stop.. No more will he get the rookie jitters excuse. If you put the ball in harms way more so than not. You are now part of the problem. Show me a successful quarterback who gives the ball away like a charity event and still has a starting job? Bill Parcells stressed it, as did Tom Coughlin. You do not win in this league if you’re on the other end of the turnover battle. Protect the ball, or be replaced..
If we want to be taking serious, and make some serious noise this year. Jones, has to showcase why he was drafted 6th overall. He has to be that guy that comes up big in tight spots. Lifts his teammates, and plays like the player this front office foresaw. No better time to shut the doubters up, and make yourself a nice home here with the Giants. Don’t settle for good, be great..
|
|
|
|
Post by roundabout on Jul 6, 2021 12:43:53 GMT -5
Imo its more about the oline being a question mark and no upgraded this off season and a 2nd year HC with no winning record (yet) They just drafted 3 of the projected starters and have a solid /good center they are not going to just skip by these guys they need to see what they have. People are projecting they will be bad they don't know that, most OL people who train Olinemen and or coach think the Giants might just be in a good spot, They have young guys like Nick Gates was waiting in the wings Kyle Murphy the center Guard from Florida. I can understand calling the OL a ? mark. I'm hoping there's a plan B if certain guys don't perform on the Oline.Hopefully someone is waiting in the wings if a player or two really don't really pan out.I'm very surprised they didn't address the Oline , but hey maybe they will surprise us, we will find out soon enough....fingers crossed |
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Jul 6, 2021 12:57:16 GMT -5
He actually did it in 12 starts his rookie year which was also a record for a Giants rookie QB hence all the broken records you mention which make them that much less impressive IMO. I also wonder what the least amount of TD’s thrown for in a season is for a Giants QB who started 14 games or more. If 11 TD’s isn’t an all time low record I would think it has to be close. Do you not remember the dark ages of the 70s? Lol, hell no, I’m only 42 but I have read and heard plenty about them on this board and elsewhere. |
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Jul 6, 2021 13:06:48 GMT -5
OK folks. Spending spree is over. The team looks solid. The defense is very strong both up front and in the secondary. Saquan will be back. The weapons are in place.
So why are we still picked by many to be in the bottom half of the league? Answer:.....Daniel Jones.
So my view is that we pretty much DO know what DJ is. To me his upside comparison is a guy like Alex Smith. That's not an insult. I like Alex Smith. Don't forget at the time of his horrible injury the Redskins were in 1st place. You could win with Alex Smith.......and I think we can win with Daniel Jones.
But let's face it, what we need from DJ is to be a solid game manager. He needs to make the right calls. Make the throws when they're there, and get some first downs with his feet....As I said....Alex Smith.
He needs lot of weapons to succeed and he has them. DJ will never be a premier NFL QB. That ship has sailed as far as I'm concerned. His pocket awareness probably won't get much better. But I DO think we can still win with him. He just needs to not stink....and I don't think he will.
I see 11 wins this year without crippling injuries. I think Jones can function with this offense. And that's all I expect. I expect him to just run the offense and not cost us games.
To me, that is what Daniel Jones is. He's never going to be elite. He's probably never going to be anything but barely better than an average starting QB. But we don't need him to be....at least not now.
I see no reason to resign myself to the limitations you have attributed to Jones, especially after the past two seasons, but I'll admit that your chances of being correct are pretty high based based on the standard you set. After all just how many QB's are considered elite?
I have no idea what Jones' ceiling is. Like every Giants fan I'm hoping he surprises the shit out of us like he did in his first couple games. We've all seen flashes of what he can do as well as the improvements to his game that needs to be made.
So as we head into his 3rd year (first year working in the same system) and Joe Judge's 2nd (first without covid restrictions), the truth is we are a team filled with unproven talent. And everyone knows what I'm referring to.
The Oline remains is a huge question mark, as is Saquon's return from injury. How will Engram look this year? What will Toney bring to the table? All of these guys factor into Jones' success.
Then of course there's the defensive side. What can we expect from Ojulari, Smith, Odenigbo, Ragland, Carter, Xman, Brown, Coughlin, and Crowder? And I didn't even mention the question marks in our secondary or our run stopping ability as well.
This is a huge year for Big Blue, and I remain optimistic we're headed in the right direction and that Jones is the man going forward.
Just my 2 cents.
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Jul 6, 2021 13:09:20 GMT -5
Just when I thought we were done with the Daniel Jones threads.. They pull me back in.. Right now, his Giants career is on a ventilator. Good rookie season, followed by a shit show. No need for excuses, heard them all. He’s a big boy, time to accept big boy criticism. Last season is a year I want to forget. The offense was in quick sand on a weekly basis, and the end zone was the Bermuda Triangle. When you can only muster a pathetic 17 points a game, in a league that gives you a touchdown handicap. You have serious issues, and that includes the quarterback. This whole offseason was designed to help our quarterback. I’m sure the Giants gave it a code name operation Jones needs help. We wined and dined Golladay away. We signed often injured John Ross, we drafted Kadarius Toney. We also signed veteran Kyle Rudolph from the Vikings, and signed two offensive lineman for depth. Shit, we also got hot shot offensive mind Russ Callaway from LSU. As you can see, the Giants made it priority one, two and maybe three to give the much needed pieces for Jones. Everyone is backing the kid, as they should. He’s a Giant, if he played for another team we would all be laughing at him. However, he has a lot to prove this year. This is the most important season as a quarterback. This is where teams either commit to you, or not. Jones knows this, and I’m sure he’s doing whatever it takes to make the decision easier for the Giants. His turnovers have to stop.. No more will he get the rookie jitters excuse. If you put the ball in harms way more so than not. You are now part of the problem. Show me a successful quarterback who gives the ball away like a charity event and still has a starting job? Bill Parcells stressed it, as did Tom Coughlin. You do not win in this league if you’re on the other end of the turnover battle. Protect the ball, or be replaced.. If we want to be taking serious, and make some serious noise this year. Jones, has to showcase why he was drafted 6th overall. He has to be that guy that comes up big in tight spots. Lifts his teammates, and plays like the player this front office foresaw. No better time to shut the doubters up, and make yourself a nice home here with the Giants. Don’t settle for good, be great.. Okay Tolstoy, (war and peace) lets condense this. Make plays, don't turn the ball over! I know you're a word man better than a bird man.  |
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 6, 2021 13:14:36 GMT -5
They just drafted 3 of the projected starters and have a solid /good center they are not going to just skip by these guys they need to see what they have. People are projecting they will be bad they don't know that, most OL people who train Olinemen and or coach think the Giants might just be in a good spot, They have young guys like Nick Gates was waiting in the wings Kyle Murphy the center Guard from Florida. I can understand calling the OL a ? mark. I'm hoping there's a plan B if certain guys don't perform on the Oline.Hopefully someone is waiting in the wings if a player or two really don't really pan out.I'm very surprised they didn't address the Oline , but hey maybe they will surprise us, we will find out soon enough....fingers crossed They addressed it with vets, they have some young guys in the system They have guys that can be plugged in that have some years in the league Fulton and a healthy Solder, from what I saw the last 8 games that line was playing at a good enough level to go forward with. We will see tho as you said I have my fingers crossed also. |
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 6, 2021 13:22:34 GMT -5
Do you not remember the dark ages of the 70s? Lol, hell no, I’m only 42 but I have read and heard plenty about them on this board and elsewhere. Vinnie was on the Bottle at the end of the wilderness years the baby bottle that is lol. |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Jul 6, 2021 13:27:54 GMT -5
Lol, hell no, I’m only 42 but I have read and heard plenty about them on this board and elsewhere. Vinnie was on the Bottle at the end of the wilderness years the baby bottle that is lol. While the rest of us were on the other bottle because of the wilderness years |
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 6, 2021 13:28:59 GMT -5
This is where you and I differ. I have seen him numerous times not read the defense right . Throw to the doubled guy and leave the receiver open in the zone Holding his D$$$. He has 2 recievers lined up on the left side. A Sot Corner Outside Corner and a Safety a few yards behind them . He only has one choice on this play. Throw it to the receiver the Safety is not shadowing. We have all seen him make the wrong throw in this situation. If he reads the Defense correct . He should know he is going to have a one on one either on the slant or the post. Watch this play against AZ make the video full screen fivethirtyeight.com/features/daniel-jones-hasnt-figured-out-zone-coverage-yet/Keep your eyes on the outside receiver ignore the rest of the play . Then re-watch and just concentrate on the QB . It appears he staring down his target ( a misread) from the moment he receives the snap . He was still doing this stuff in week 14. As I believe it is correctable. It needs to be done quickly. I don't think we are in disagreement here. You statement seems to support what I said. Jones makes up his mind where he is going with the ball before the snap. When the defense shows something different pre-snap, he doesn't adjust well. I think it's his biggest flaw really. You need to be able to read what the defense does after the ball is snapped. The example you give is a good one. He didn't read what the safety was doing once the ball was snapped. He made up his mind before hand and didn't adjust after. Isn't that article from his rookie year when they played AZ not trying to defend him but he has grown quite a bit since his rookie year manipulating coverage with his eyes and such he still needs improvement but he understands zone at this point. |
|
|
|
Post by trueblueatnyc on Jul 6, 2021 13:29:03 GMT -5
I'm hoping there's a plan B if certain guys don't perform on the Oline.Hopefully someone is waiting in the wings if a player or two really don't really pan out.I'm very surprised they didn't address the Oline , but hey maybe they will surprise us, we will find out soon enough....fingers crossed They addressed it with vets, they have some young guys in the system They have guys that can be plugged in that have some years in the league Fulton and a healthy Solder, from what I saw the last 8 games that line was playing at a good enough level to go forward with. We will see tho as you said I have my fingers crossed also. Yeah, I think the OL got better as the year went on, and their 3 rookies got a lot of playing experience. I don't see the OL being worse than it was at the end of last season and I think Fulton is a better player than people are realizing. Yes, he had a bad year last season, but he's been a starting level OL for most of his career. |
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 6, 2021 13:30:23 GMT -5
Vinnie was on the Bottle at the end of the wilderness years the baby bottle that is lol. While the rest of us were on the other bottle because of the wilderness years LOL Vinnie got his the the last 8-9 years tho. |
|
|
|
Post by trueblueatnyc on Jul 6, 2021 13:31:22 GMT -5
Just when I thought we were done with the Daniel Jones threads.. They pull me back in.. Right now, his Giants career is on a ventilator. Good rookie season, followed by a shit show. No need for excuses, heard them all. He’s a big boy, time to accept big boy criticism. Last season is a year I want to forget. The offense was in quick sand on a weekly basis, and the end zone was the Bermuda Triangle. When you can only muster a pathetic 17 points a game, in a league that gives you a touchdown handicap. You have serious issues, and that includes the quarterback. This whole offseason was designed to help our quarterback. I’m sure the Giants gave it a code name operation Jones needs help. We wined and dined Golladay away. We signed often injured John Ross, we drafted Kadarius Toney. We also signed veteran Kyle Rudolph from the Vikings, and signed two offensive lineman for depth. Shit, we also got hot shot offensive mind Russ Callaway from LSU. As you can see, the Giants made it priority one, two and maybe three to give the much needed pieces for Jones. Everyone is backing the kid, as they should. He’s a Giant, if he played for another team we would all be laughing at him. However, he has a lot to prove this year. This is the most important season as a quarterback. This is where teams either commit to you, or not. Jones knows this, and I’m sure he’s doing whatever it takes to make the decision easier for the Giants. His turnovers have to stop.. No more will he get the rookie jitters excuse. If you put the ball in harms way more so than not. You are now part of the problem. Show me a successful quarterback who gives the ball away like a charity event and still has a starting job? Bill Parcells stressed it, as did Tom Coughlin. You do not win in this league if you’re on the other end of the turnover battle. Protect the ball, or be replaced.. If we want to be taking serious, and make some serious noise this year. Jones, has to showcase why he was drafted 6th overall. He has to be that guy that comes up big in tight spots. Lifts his teammates, and plays like the player this front office foresaw. No better time to shut the doubters up, and make yourself a nice home here with the Giants. Don’t settle for good, be great.. Last year was really rough for him, but he can certainly bounce back. Look at Baker Mayfield, he had a big time sophmore slump in his 2nd year but bounced back last year and had a quality season. So it's not unheard of. Hopefully Jones can improve and become the player he was drafted to be. |
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 6, 2021 13:35:39 GMT -5
They addressed it with vets, they have some young guys in the system They have guys that can be plugged in that have some years in the league Fulton and a healthy Solder, from what I saw the last 8 games that line was playing at a good enough level to go forward with. We will see tho as you said I have my fingers crossed also. Yeah, I think the OL got better as the year went on, and their 3 rookies got a lot of playing experience. I don't see the OL being worse than it was at the end of last season and I think Fulton is a better player than people are realizing. Yes, he had a bad year last season, but he's been a starting level OL for most of his career. I'm optimistic about the OL think by years end they were a decent run blocking OL. The guys they drafted have talent it is up to the coaches to get them going even tho Hernandez he isn't living up his draft slot, he has been solid and will probably be better after working with Duke Mannyweather and taking some weight off think they are gonna benefit from growing together and having stability and experience in the OL coaching staff. |
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 6, 2021 13:41:16 GMT -5
Just when I thought we were done with the Daniel Jones threads.. They pull me back in.. Right now, his Giants career is on a ventilator. Good rookie season, followed by a shit show. No need for excuses, heard them all. He’s a big boy, time to accept big boy criticism. Last season is a year I want to forget. The offense was in quick sand on a weekly basis, and the end zone was the Bermuda Triangle. When you can only muster a pathetic 17 points a game, in a league that gives you a touchdown handicap. You have serious issues, and that includes the quarterback. This whole offseason was designed to help our quarterback. I’m sure the Giants gave it a code name operation Jones needs help. We wined and dined Golladay away. We signed often injured John Ross, we drafted Kadarius Toney. We also signed veteran Kyle Rudolph from the Vikings, and signed two offensive lineman for depth. Shit, we also got hot shot offensive mind Russ Callaway from LSU. As you can see, the Giants made it priority one, two and maybe three to give the much needed pieces for Jones. Everyone is backing the kid, as they should. He’s a Giant, if he played for another team we would all be laughing at him. However, he has a lot to prove this year. This is the most important season as a quarterback. This is where teams either commit to you, or not. Jones knows this, and I’m sure he’s doing whatever it takes to make the decision easier for the Giants. His turnovers have to stop.. No more will he get the rookie jitters excuse. If you put the ball in harms way more so than not. You are now part of the problem. Show me a successful quarterback who gives the ball away like a charity event and still has a starting job? Bill Parcells stressed it, as did Tom Coughlin. You do not win in this league if you’re on the other end of the turnover battle. Protect the ball, or be replaced.. If we want to be taking serious, and make some serious noise this year. Jones, has to showcase why he was drafted 6th overall. He has to be that guy that comes up big in tight spots. Lifts his teammates, and plays like the player this front office foresaw. No better time to shut the doubters up, and make yourself a nice home here with the Giants. Don’t settle for good, be great.. Last year was really rough for him, but he can certainly bounce back. Look at Baker Mayfield, he had a big time sophmore slump in his 2nd year but bounced back last year and had a quality season. So it's not unheard of. Hopefully Jones can improve and become the player he was drafted to be. Big issue for Jones is he had everything you can think of working against him for second year QB makes it hard to evaluate what he is accurately. OL in training during an NFL season is always tough no #1 WR and injuries through out the WR core new system in a year with no on field work. Really hard to evaluate what he is off of that.No excuses these are just facts and seem to be all the ingredients you need for an offense to struggle. He needs to be better thats for sure but so did everything around him. |
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Jul 6, 2021 13:56:01 GMT -5
Just when I thought we were done with the Daniel Jones threads.. They pull me back in.. Right now, his Giants career is on a ventilator. Good rookie season, followed by a shit show. No need for excuses, heard them all. He’s a big boy, time to accept big boy criticism. Last season is a year I want to forget. The offense was in quick sand on a weekly basis, and the end zone was the Bermuda Triangle. When you can only muster a pathetic 17 points a game, in a league that gives you a touchdown handicap. You have serious issues, and that includes the quarterback. This whole offseason was designed to help our quarterback. I’m sure the Giants gave it a code name operation Jones needs help. We wined and dined Golladay away. We signed often injured John Ross, we drafted Kadarius Toney. We also signed veteran Kyle Rudolph from the Vikings, and signed two offensive lineman for depth. Shit, we also got hot shot offensive mind Russ Callaway from LSU. As you can see, the Giants made it priority one, two and maybe three to give the much needed pieces for Jones. Everyone is backing the kid, as they should. He’s a Giant, if he played for another team we would all be laughing at him. However, he has a lot to prove this year. This is the most important season as a quarterback. This is where teams either commit to you, or not. Jones knows this, and I’m sure he’s doing whatever it takes to make the decision easier for the Giants. His turnovers have to stop.. No more will he get the rookie jitters excuse. If you put the ball in harms way more so than not. You are now part of the problem. Show me a successful quarterback who gives the ball away like a charity event and still has a starting job? Bill Parcells stressed it, as did Tom Coughlin. You do not win in this league if you’re on the other end of the turnover battle. Protect the ball, or be replaced.. If we want to be taking serious, and make some serious noise this year. Jones, has to showcase why he was drafted 6th overall. He has to be that guy that comes up big in tight spots. Lifts his teammates, and plays like the player this front office foresaw. No better time to shut the doubters up, and make yourself a nice home here with the Giants. Don’t settle for good, be great.. Last year was really rough for him, but he can certainly bounce back. Look at Baker Mayfield, he had a big time sophmore slump in his 2nd year but bounced back last year and had a quality season. So it's not unheard of. Hopefully Jones can improve and become the player he was drafted to be. By all accounts, he has to bounce back. Another 11 touchdown season will certainly be the last straw that broke Jones back and Giants career. Speaking of Mayfield, he did have a rough sophomore season. However, it’s no where in the same vicinity of what Jones put out. Daniel Jones season rivals former alumni Dave Brown. I didn’t even bring up injuries.. We were spoiled with the iron horse Eli Manning. Jones in two seasons, has missed more games than Eli in 15. |
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Jul 6, 2021 14:00:43 GMT -5
OK folks. Spending spree is over. The team looks solid. The defense is very strong both up front and in the secondary. Saquan will be back. The weapons are in place.
So why are we still picked by many to be in the bottom half of the league? Answer:.....Daniel Jones.
So my view is that we pretty much DO know what DJ is. To me his upside comparison is a guy like Alex Smith. That's not an insult. I like Alex Smith. Don't forget at the time of his horrible injury the Redskins were in 1st place. You could win with Alex Smith.......and I think we can win with Daniel Jones.
But let's face it, what we need from DJ is to be a solid game manager. He needs to make the right calls. Make the throws when they're there, and get some first downs with his feet....As I said....Alex Smith.
He needs lot of weapons to succeed and he has them. DJ will never be a premier NFL QB. That ship has sailed as far as I'm concerned. His pocket awareness probably won't get much better. But I DO think we can still win with him. He just needs to not stink....and I don't think he will.
I see 11 wins this year without crippling injuries. I think Jones can function with this offense. And that's all I expect. I expect him to just run the offense and not cost us games.
To me, that is what Daniel Jones is. He's never going to be elite. He's probably never going to be anything but barely better than an average starting QB. But we don't need him to be....at least not now.
Our self proclaimed guru has spoken...heed his proclamation: "To me, that is what Daniel Jones is. He's never going to be elite. He's probably never going to be anything but barely better than an average starting QB."
My greatest pleasure will be to see you eat those words. 90% of the starting QBs in the league aren't elite. Depending on one's definition of elite of course. |
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Jul 6, 2021 14:05:37 GMT -5
So why are we still picked by many to be in the bottom half of the league? Answer:.....Daniel Jones.
So my view is that we pretty much DO know what DJ is.
People don't like Daniel Jones so we (the fans) do know what he is already? Seems strange to me. See the thing is from day 1 the media was against Jones. Not because he was a rapping WR but because he was not who they thought we should pick. Because DG didn't pick a QB the year prior in the "best QB class ever" and then when he did pick a QB it was a kid from Duke not from Ohio State.
Those same media folks that were against Daniel Jones and DG are the ones predicting us to be in the bottom half of the league. No we don't know what Jones is and damn sure should not base that decision on what these media folks predict. I have my own eyes and I'll let them decide thank you. We get it, you don't think we can have success with Jones, I look forward to him proving you wrong.
That best QB class ever thing just never gets old. And still some folks listen to those shills. smh |
|
|
|
Post by DJones19 on Jul 6, 2021 14:14:34 GMT -5
I think DJ has potential to be great if he stops fumbling.
I'm just concerned that it's an issue that can't be corrected without compromise.
The media wants to turn this season into a season about Jones. I'm not sold on any side of the ball..look what Baltimore did to our D.
I'm not bought in yet even though we look better on paper.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Jul 6, 2021 14:20:57 GMT -5
I don't agree with that based solely on timing. Darnold had 3 years under his belt, had shown very little and his team gave up on him. Jones only has 2 years in the NFL, hasn't shown very much either but his team hasn't moved him out. That is why year 3 is fish or cut bait year for DJ. I remain hopeful but wouldn't bet the ranch or even the garage that he blossoms this year. If you were evaluating both QBs after year 2, I'd say you were on the money.....maybe you were looking at it that way? Yes I was.
Let's look at it....Jones is essentially where Darnold was starting last season.
After year two Darnold had 6000 yards passing, 36 TD's, 28 picks and an 11-15 record.
Jones has 6000 yards, 35 TD's, 22 picks and an 8-18 record. And Jones has had a crap load more fumbles.
Interesting to note (for me anyway) I spent last winter in Florida and never got my TV set up to see the Giants live. If they were a good team it would have been a priority. Instead I watched graphic game trackers or not at all. I read the papers etc but saw very little of Jones live. Which brings me to my point. I have very little opinion about how this season will go for him because he is pretty much a mystery to me. I have no visual on his footwork or whether he improved his ball protection, is he as accurate as reported etc etc. I won't miss a minute this year and am looking forward to training camp more than usual. |
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Jul 6, 2021 14:22:14 GMT -5
You folks think I'm trashing Jones. It's simply not true. I am just accepting his limitations and suggesting that we can still win with him. Not every young QB can be a HOF'r. I'm also open to the possibility that he can still break through this year. But to me, winning is more important. We can win with Daniel Jones. He just needs more than some other QB's around him to get that done. I haven't seen that yet; to me he looks exactly like all young QBs. He's playing near the level of his team. I haven't yet seen any QBs from his generation that are outliers to that. And I certainly don't expect him to be a HOFer just like I don't expect nearly all young QBs from any particular generation to be, this generation included. |
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Jul 6, 2021 14:37:21 GMT -5
Yes I was.
Let's look at it....Jones is essentially where Darnold was starting last season.
After year two Darnold had 6000 yards passing, 36 TD's, 28 picks and an 11-15 record.
Jones has 6000 yards, 35 TD's, 22 picks and an 8-18 record. And Jones has had a crap load more fumbles.
Interesting to note (for me anyway) I spent last winter in Florida and never got my TV set up to see the Giants live. If they were a good team it would have been a priority. Instead I watched graphic game trackers or not at all. I read the papers etc but saw very little of Jones live. Which brings me to my point. I have very little opinion about how this season will go for him because he is pretty much a mystery to me. I have no visual on his footwork or whether he improved his ball protection, is he as accurate as reported etc etc. I won't miss a minute this year and am looking forward to training camp more than usual. Basically, you have no opinion.. While we were up North freezing and shoveling snow. You were sitting back reading the funnies in beautiful Florida. We need you here, the Giants need you. I would say Daniel Jones needs you, but you don’t know who he is. |
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Jul 6, 2021 14:44:55 GMT -5
Interesting to note (for me anyway) I spent last winter in Florida and never got my TV set up to see the Giants live. If they were a good team it would have been a priority. Instead I watched graphic game trackers or not at all. I read the papers etc but saw very little of Jones live. Which brings me to my point. I have very little opinion about how this season will go for him because he is pretty much a mystery to me. I have no visual on his footwork or whether he improved his ball protection, is he as accurate as reported etc etc. I won't miss a minute this year and am looking forward to training camp more than usual. .. While we were up North freezing and shoveling snow. You were sitting back reading the funnies in beautiful Florida. We need you here, the Giants need you. I would say Daniel Jones needs you, but you don’t know who he is. Ha, that's so true, I have no opinion .....but I do have good judgement which is why I stayed south for the winter. I have tickets for the Giants Dolphins game in Miami. I will also get north a couple of times this fall/winter and I will see at least one home game. Now, if I could only remember our QBs name..... |
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Jul 6, 2021 14:45:10 GMT -5
Lol, hell no, I’m only 42 but I have read and heard plenty about them on this board and elsewhere. Vinnie was on the Bottle at the end of the wilderness years the baby bottle that is lol. Lol, pretty sure if I was my age now I would have been on the big boy adult beverage bottle like I have been for the past decade every season. I’m glad I wasn’t around to suffer through those years. My earliest memories of the Giants were when I was about 7-8 and my parents and grandparents would take me to watch the ‘85-86 Giants summer camp at Pace University in Westchester. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to appreciate those years as much as I would have I was older but I still have fond memories. If only I still had the ball that was autographed by several players from that team…instead my brother and I used it to play around with and tore it up in the yard over time. Still po’d about that, lol. |
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Jul 6, 2021 14:53:16 GMT -5
Basically, you have no opinion.. While we were up North freezing and shoveling snow. You were sitting back reading the funnies in beautiful Florida. We need you here, the Giants need you. I would say Daniel Jones needs you, but you don’t know who he is. Ha, that's so true, I have no opinion .....but I do have good judgement which is why I stayed south for the winter. I have tickets for the Giants Dolphins game in Miami. I will also get north a couple of times this fall/winter and I will see at least one home game. Now, if I could only remember our QBs name.....Not even the Did You Know? Crew can help you with that one.. |
|
|
|
Post by OrangeGiant on Jul 6, 2021 14:57:22 GMT -5
I think Jones has all the tools physically, to be a very good QB, certainly as good as Eli was, maybe better.
To me, question #1 is can he control the turnovers and keep trending better in that area, like he did last year compared to his rookie year. Pocket awareness plays a big part in this as well.
Question #2 is can he be the type of QB that can play with poise in critical moments and make winning plays in those moments. That, to me, separates a lot of QB's.
If he can do the above 2 things, I really think he has the rest of the tools to be a borderline elite QB in this league. If he can't do those two things...he won't be anymore than he is right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 6, 2021 15:01:08 GMT -5
Vinnie was on the Bottle at the end of the wilderness years the baby bottle that is lol. Lol, pretty sure if I was my age now I would have been on the big boy adult beverage bottle like I have been for the past decade every season. I’m glad I wasn’t around to suffer through those years. My earliest memories of the Giants were when I was about 7-8 and my parents and grandparents would take me to watch the ‘85-86 Giants summer camp at Pace University in Westchester. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to appreciate those years as much as I would have I was older but I still have fond memories. If only I still had the ball that was autographed by several players from that team…instead my brother and I used it to play around with and tore it up in the yard over time. Still po’d about that, lol. When your a kid you don't care about anything but play lol. I remember I was a little kid when Miami went undefeated my uncles were talking about it Me and my brothers and Cousins wanted to go play tackle football on the street lol. My mother hated it tore up our levis and she was using up Macureacom and Bandaids |
|
