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Post by Morehead State on Oct 17, 2021 20:36:36 GMT -5
Nothing was worse than the 70's. Not even now. The W-L columns disagree with you. I wasn't around for the 70s, but win % wise it wasn't this bad. Now we have, not so long ago memories of SB's. In the 70's, we were the very epitome of losing. We had a tradition of losing. It was in our DNA. It was who we were...Pure losers.
Put it this way...may first playoff game as a Giants fan was when I was 23 years old.
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Post by Martin on Oct 17, 2021 20:50:05 GMT -5
I certainly agree, but the gettlemen experiment has been alarmingly bad. I think his point was to stay in the now since Gettlemen is still the gm, but that said yes, this problem is systemic and has being going on for quite a long time. If they treat it by just firing the GM nothing will change strap up for another 5 to ten years of bad ball they need to step into the modern era of NFL football. Which means family and friends are not allowed. Let the football experts do the planning. People with real resumes. Family and friends can sell tickets, food, merchandise and do community outreach.
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Post by Martin on Oct 17, 2021 20:52:33 GMT -5
Nothing was worse than the 70's. Not even now. The W-L columns disagree with you. I wasn't around for the 70s, but win % wise it wasn't this bad. This is correct. Today it's worse.
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Post by vbgiantsfan on Oct 17, 2021 21:03:33 GMT -5
There are so many stats to show that this team needs to be torn apart at every level. How anyone believes we should keep this house of cards scotch taped together for another season out of fear of another rebuild is beyond me. I'd rather go 1-15 next year and feel like the team made progress than go 3-13 (my expectation this year) and keep the trash heap of a team together just to do it all over again. Fire Gettleman Fire Judge Fire Graham Fire Garrett Keep DJ as a 1 year bridge to a newly drafted QB Find a way to offload our high priced low impact players (Williams, Golladay) Sacrifice next year with the cap and talent for the true rebuild in 2023 How sad... Your suggestion is that the Giants should fire the GM, HC, OC and DC and replace the QB to make the team worse in order for you to feel the team made progress? I'm gonna go with I hope they don't do exactly that, but some of it. You are quoting my post except for the part where you added "make the team worse." I am of the belief there are is a better GM, HC, OC, and DC out there we need to pursue. As for Jones, I didn't say replace him, i said don't extend him. I don't think there are any good college QBs coming out this year, so Jones isn't really replaceable at this point, and we need pass rushers much more out of this draft. Hopefully, in 2023 there will be a good crop of QBs available for us to pick from, because I don't think Jones will prove himself in year 4 that he's worth keeping as a franchise QB. Williams and Golladay are anchors on our cap, but it seems like there isn't much we can do to rid ourselves of them at this point.
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Post by FanNYG on Oct 17, 2021 21:09:27 GMT -5
Well, there is always next year, or the next, next year, or the next, next, next year!!! Maybe by then, we'll have a competitive team.
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Post by Jomo on Oct 17, 2021 21:11:34 GMT -5
The W-L columns disagree with you. I wasn't around for the 70s, but win % wise it wasn't this bad. This is correct. Today it's worse. Martin, the numbers don't lie and what we are living through is terrible but I am with Morehead in saying that my recollection of the 70's was worse.
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Post by Martin on Oct 17, 2021 21:18:11 GMT -5
This is correct. Today it's worse. Martin, the numbers don't lie and what we are living through is terrible but I am with Morehead in saying that my recollection of the 70's was worse. I think for me living through those years ( so long ago) it was the first time my team was consistently losing. It made an impression upon me for that decade was lots of losing. Well the last 10 years is nothing short of that same decade. The difference is many of us were young then and the losing really hurt bad. Today as we are now a lot older some won't watch and they'll play golf instead. When I was a boy I watched every game, every ounce of blood on every Sunday so yeah the 1970's was rough but we have been living through the same or worse today. IMO
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 17, 2021 21:20:28 GMT -5
The W-L columns disagree with you. I wasn't around for the 70s, but win % wise it wasn't this bad. Now we have, not so long ago memories of SB's. In the 70's, we were the very epitome of losing. We had a tradition of losing. It was in our DNA. It was who we were...Pure losers.
Put it this way...may first playoff game as a Giants fan was when I was 23 years old.
9-5 in 1970 8-6 in 1972 5-9 in 75' and 77' 6-10 in 78' and 79' All seasons way better than anything we have seen since 2017. And it doesn't appear to be getting any better ay time soon.
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Post by straightrazorman on Oct 17, 2021 21:21:21 GMT -5
19-51 last 70 games It's been this bad for a long time. I was way too young to remember the terrible 70s but this team has actually surpassed that era of Giants as possibly the worst Giants team in a 10 yr span from 2012-2021. They suck at home, they suck on the rd, they suck everywhere. they're like mice on a field with Pythons. The Jaguars would beat this team by double digits if they played them next week! You're right. You're too young to remember. That 70's debacle started in 1964. I'm old enough to remember. the constant is it's the same ownership.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 17, 2021 21:22:12 GMT -5
Martin, the numbers don't lie and what we are living through is terrible but I am with Morehead in saying that my recollection of the 70's was worse. I think for me living through those years ( so long ago) it was the first time my team was consistently losing. It made an impression upon me for that decade was lots of losing. Well the last 10 years is nothing short of that same decade. The difference is many of us were young then and the losing really hurt bad. Today as we are now a lot older some won't watch and they'll play golf instead. When I was a boy I watched every game, every ounce of blood on every Sunday so yeah the 1970's was rough but we have been living through the same or worse today. IMO Great post. Perception is related to age.
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Post by Martin on Oct 17, 2021 21:30:08 GMT -5
I think for me living through those years ( so long ago) it was the first time my team was consistently losing. It made an impression upon me for that decade was lots of losing. Well the last 10 years is nothing short of that same decade. The difference is many of us were young then and the losing really hurt bad. Today as we are now a lot older some won't watch and they'll play golf instead. When I was a boy I watched every game, every ounce of blood on every Sunday so yeah the 1970's was rough but we have been living through the same or worse today. IMO Great post. Perception is related to age. I remember my first girl friend break up that hurt bad! All the others after that were a lot easier.
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Post by Jomo on Oct 17, 2021 21:32:39 GMT -5
Martin, the numbers don't lie and what we are living through is terrible but I am with Morehead in saying that my recollection of the 70's was worse. I think for me living through those years ( so long ago) it was the first time my team was consistently losing. It made an impression upon me for that decade was lots of losing. Well the last 10 years is nothing short of that same decade. The difference is many of us were young then and the losing really hurt bad. Today as we are now a lot older some won't watch and they'll play golf instead. When I was a boy I watched every game, every ounce of blood on every Sunday so yeah the 1970's was rough but we have been living through the same or worse today. IMO Interesting perspective....It could be our age and evolving perspective. I couldn't afford to go golf in the 70's. I sat there and took it. Today, because I've lived through something like this before and because I have many other outlets for my passions, it feels not as bad.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 17, 2021 21:36:04 GMT -5
If they treat it by just firing the GM nothing will change strap up for another 5 to ten years of bad ball they need to step into the modern era of NFL football. Which means family and friends are not allowed. Let the football experts do the planning. People with real resumes. Family and friends can sell tickets, food, merchandise and do community outreach. exactly
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miss86
Special Teams
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Post by miss86 on Oct 17, 2021 21:41:04 GMT -5
I never thought the Giants would beat the Rams. No OL. Remember, we have No OL! Once Toney went out, I knew it was over. Toney WAS our offense.
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coughlinscorner
Special Teams
Gooble Gobble We Accept Her One of Us
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Post by coughlinscorner on Oct 17, 2021 21:45:37 GMT -5
This is correct. Today it's worse. Martin, the numbers don't lie and what we are living through is terrible but I am with Morehead in saying that my recollection of the 70's was worse. The reason its worse now is because of parity. Its much easier to turn it around now then it was in the 70s. QBs on 1st contracts can come into the league and be good in a hurry on a cheap contract. Didn 't have that back then. The fact they are THIS bad for this long when teams turn it around under new regimes is a testement to the inepitude of the franchise. PS I had season tickets from 76-86 and was at THE FUMBLE game. This stretch is worse.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 17, 2021 21:48:14 GMT -5
Martin, the numbers don't lie and what we are living through is terrible but I am with Morehead in saying that my recollection of the 70's was worse. The reason its worse now is because of parity. Its much easier to turn it around now then it was in the 70s. QBs on 1st contracts can come into the league and be good in a hurry on a cheap contract. Didn 't have that back then. The fact they are THIS bad for this long when teams turn it around under new regimes is a testement to the inepitude of the franchise. PS I had season tickets from 76-86 and was at THE FUMBLE game. This stretch is worse. It's what happens when you have ownership that wanted to still do things the old school way and brought in a GM trapped in the 70s..
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Post by Jomo on Oct 17, 2021 21:49:21 GMT -5
Martin, the numbers don't lie and what we are living through is terrible but I am with Morehead in saying that my recollection of the 70's was worse. The reason its worse now is because of parity. Its much easier to turn it around now then it was in the 70s. QBs on 1st contracts can come into the league and be good in a hurry on a cheap contract. Didn 't have that back then. The fact they are THIS bad for this long when teams turn it around under new regimes is a testement to the inepitude of the franchise. PS I had season tickets from 76-86 and was at THE FUMBLE game. This stretch is worse. Another good perspective. No teams went from bad to competitive in 2 or 3 years back then. Now, with a good GM and HC it happens often, though not with us.
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Post by allnygin on Oct 17, 2021 22:00:06 GMT -5
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 17, 2021 22:02:20 GMT -5
And they he proceeded to .. Nevermind..that ensuing offseason set the domino's in motion that directly caused our cap to be jacked up today
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 17, 2021 22:16:46 GMT -5
Now we have, not so long ago memories of SB's. In the 70's, we were the very epitome of losing. We had a tradition of losing. It was in our DNA. It was who we were...Pure losers.
Put it this way...may first playoff game as a Giants fan was when I was 23 years old.
9-5 in 1970 8-6 in 1972 5-9 in 75' and 77' 6-10 in 78' and 79' All seasons way better than anything we have seen since 2017. And it doesn't appear to be getting any better ay time soon. 9-4 in 1970 until we were crushed by the Rams week 14. From 1973 thru 1980 we were a laughing stock. We went almost 20 years without making the playoffs for God's sake.
Those who think this is worse may not have been around then.
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Post by Rangers13 on Oct 17, 2021 22:21:12 GMT -5
Delusional Dave smh. OL is good . . . in theory so let’s celebrate what never happens on the field.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 18, 2021 0:15:36 GMT -5
Why would it matter what others that also have no bearing on the team think? Do we have to go over every time someone states their opinion or do you just do it with me? Perhaps you’re not familiar with public message biards and how they work, especially ones related to sports. No, unless their opinion is based on some ridiculous strawman, then yeah I'll probably challenge it. If your take on public message boards is that people make up stuff and then try to ridicule others about it to try to make themselves feel better or smart or WTF it is, then no, I am definitely not familiar with public message boards. Not that this is a public message board, but I realize that's beside the point.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 18, 2021 0:18:18 GMT -5
Statistically, this is the worst 70 game stretch the Giants have ever had in their teams history. So yes, it's worse than the 70s. And 90s. Nothing was worse than the 70's. Not even now. The numbers say differently but I still agree. That felt much worse. Maybe it was our ages? Maybe for the younger posters, this is their '70s. The numbers work.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 18, 2021 0:19:39 GMT -5
The W-L columns disagree with you. I wasn't around for the 70s, but win % wise it wasn't this bad. This is correct. Today it's worse. I hate that that is the truth.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 18, 2021 0:41:59 GMT -5
Your suggestion is that the Giants should fire the GM, HC, OC and DC and replace the QB to make the team worse in order for you to feel the team made progress? I'm gonna go with I hope they don't do exactly that, but some of it. You are quoting my post except for the part where you added "make the team worse." I am of the belief there are is a better GM, HC, OC, and DC out there we need to pursue. As for Jones, I didn't say replace him, i said don't extend him. I don't think there are any good college QBs coming out this year, so Jones isn't really replaceable at this point, and we need pass rushers much more out of this draft. Hopefully, in 2023 there will be a good crop of QBs available for us to pick from, because I don't think Jones will prove himself in year 4 that he's worth keeping as a franchise QB. Williams and Golladay are anchors on our cap, but it seems like there isn't much we can do to rid ourselves of them at this point. The record is what the record is. If their record is worse, they're worse. Our feelings about it don't matter. I agree the GM has got to go, and Abrams is not the answer. They need to go in a new direction. I'm not a buyer of the you won't get a good GM if he can't pick his HC argument. Shurmur isn't costing very much I'm pretty sure they have an offset on his deal so I think the Giants would be willing to eat the last two or even three years of Judge's deal if the GM insisted on it. Regardless, I think Judge gets next year whether we like it or not, but I don't buy that a short commitment to an existing HC is a deal breaker for every good available GM. For Williams and Golloday I think they will get - money paid plus cap ramifications vs production over contract term - pretty much exactly what they paid for and nothing more. I also agree that today both OC and DC deserve scrutiny, but it's a long season so I'll call it then. I don't think there's any extra points for calling it early. I won't be surprised if Graham's guys end the year in the top half. Unfortunately I also won't be surprised if they end the year in the bottom quarter. Same for the offense. I can't figure this team out to save my life.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 18, 2021 5:16:47 GMT -5
9-5 in 1970 8-6 in 1972 5-9 in 75' and 77' 6-10 in 78' and 79' All seasons way better than anything we have seen since 2017. And it doesn't appear to be getting any better ay time soon. 9-4 in 1970 until we were crushed by the Rams week 14. From 1973 thru 1980 we were a laughing stock. We went almost 20 years without making the playoffs for God's sake.
Those who think this is worse may not have been around then.
So you are basing it the consecutive years of no playoffs? Not actual a W/L %? We made the playoffs once in 10 years, 2016, on a fake built team that had a one hit wonder defense. We could be firing our 3rd coach in 5 years soon (although I doubt it). I get it, the 70s were bad. The coaching was bad. The players were bad. This could be only the middle of a bad stretch though on the 2010s/2020s if they don't figure it out. This year is shot. I already feel like next year is not going to be good based on what they would be able to do and hitting reset again. This cycle could go on for a long time even now. I told you the longer we kept DG the longer it will take to turn into a good team. No one can predict the future, but it just feels like we aren't even close to straightening out this mess. And now we are saddled with bad contracts again.
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Post by Roswell on Oct 18, 2021 5:19:57 GMT -5
Statistically, this is the worst 70 game stretch the Giants have ever had in their teams history. So yes, it's worse than the 70s. And 90s. Nothing was worse than the 70's. Not even now. Maybe. They had a D in the 70s. Today, they had nothing. But taken as a body of work, I agree with you.
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 18, 2021 5:36:23 GMT -5
When you have to cite a team from 50 years ago to prove who sucks more. It doesn’t exactly make the current team look any better. All it proves is we’ve had some lousy teams in this franchises history.
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te88
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Post by te88 on Oct 18, 2021 6:44:42 GMT -5
If they haven’t surpassed the 70s in suckage yet, they are well on their way.
The stat that AT NO POINT since ‘16 have they had a winning record is truly crazy. It is one thing to have a losing record overall at the end of the season. But this generation’s Giants have never been winners even for 1 week for several YEARS now. Think about that.
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Post by vinnie on Oct 18, 2021 7:13:41 GMT -5
Do we have to go over every time someone states their opinion or do you just do it with me? Perhaps you’re not familiar with public message biards and how they work, especially ones related to sports. No, unless their opinion is based on some ridiculous strawman, then yeah I'll probably challenge it. If your take on public message boards is that people make up stuff and then try to ridicule others about it to try to make themselves feel better or smart or WTF it is, then no, I am definitely not familiar with public message boards. Not that this is a public message board, but I realize that's beside the point. So what exactly are you challenging every time you I, or others, state opinions or facts and you ask if I think it will actually make a difference?
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