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Post by TEM on Oct 18, 2021 17:28:09 GMT -5
Thus we may know that there are five essentials for victory:
(1) He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.
(2) He will win who knows how to handle both superior and
inferior forces.
(3) He will win whose army is animated by the
same spirit throughout all its ranks.
(4) He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
(5) He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by
the sovereign.
Sun Tuz The Art of War: chapter 3 section 17
Everyday the HC, GM and Owner should read this.
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Post by Jomo on Oct 18, 2021 17:30:35 GMT -5
Palooka Joe
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Post by jintslifer1 on Oct 18, 2021 17:38:28 GMT -5
I NOW 100% believe our head coach is just a motivational speaker. That’s it. That’s all he is. He talks the talk and doesn’t walk shit. I was so high on him and now I feel cheated. AGAIN
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Post by Zimonami on Oct 18, 2021 17:39:06 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act.
The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now?
He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions.
After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3.
This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games.
Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years.
Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years.
You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification.
Give the criticism a break.
I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them.
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Post by McCherry on Oct 18, 2021 17:44:59 GMT -5
Not our money. Could Mara really sell that to the fans? "Hey sorry, but this losing coach is already paid for." I agree. I don't care if Mara has to pay for a thousand coaches. That will certainly be a consideration for Mara though .... It's nothing compared to the hit his pride will take when we have to start over again with coach #4.... I don't believe Mara will ever put money above the chance for success. We saw that in this past offseason's spending spree. At $5M a season, I don't think Judge's salary is significant. |
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Post by imgrate on Oct 18, 2021 17:47:39 GMT -5
Maybe you forgot "What Im about, ok, is an old school physical mentality. Ok. We are going to put a product on the field, that the people of this city and region are going to be proud of, because this team will represent this area. We will play fast we will play downhill we will play aggressive. We will punch you in the nose for 60 minutes and play every play like it has a history and life of its own with a relentless competitive attitude. We will play fundamentally sound and will will not beat ourselves."Judge seems to be a better speaker than he is a HC and I've said as much since he got here, too much talk and not enough action.. So basically, he's a politician |
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Post by McCherry on Oct 18, 2021 17:49:45 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act. The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now? He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions. After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3. This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games. Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years.
Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years.You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification. Give the criticism a break. I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them. Different time. Those comparisons are not relevant in this era of free agency. In the modern NFL, 2 years if a fair shake for any coach to show he's the right choice. This team is moving backwards. He's 7-15, the criticisms are fair. Is it over for Judge? Could he possibly save himself? Of course he could, but he better get moving, like this week. |
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Post by Roswell on Oct 18, 2021 17:56:25 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act. The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now? He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions. After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3. This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games. Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years. Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years. You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification. Give the criticism a break. I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them. Zim. I agree that he’s definitely been dealt a bad hand. Especially this year with the offensive injuries. What no one saw coming is the complete lack of defense. They lost Martinez but every other guy is playing worse than last year. Not a good sign for the coaching staff. But there’s also been some questionable decisions on his part that are hard to explain. |
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Post by imgrate on Oct 18, 2021 17:57:57 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act. The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now? He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions. After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3. This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games. Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years. Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years. You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification. Give the criticism a break. I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them. I generally agree, but he has made mistakes that are just, dunno how else to say it, just dumb. Decisions that the right call should already be apart of his instincts and not be learned. Things like challenges and time management. That said, I also thought Coughlin was an absolute fool when it came to time management, so maybe its not all that important. |
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Post by Zimonami on Oct 18, 2021 18:06:22 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act. The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now? He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions. After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3. This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games. Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years.
Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years.You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification. Give the criticism a break. I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them. Different time. Those comparisons are not relevant in this era of free agency. In the modern NFL, 2 years if a fair shake for any coach to show he's the right choice. This team is moving backwards. He's 7-15, the criticisms are fair. Is it over for Judge? Could he possibly save himself? Of course he could, but he better get moving, like this week. Don't give me that crap about different times. Even now you rarely see a team catapult from the bottom 5 to the top 5 teams in just a year or 2. it takes time for a team to build comraderie, familiarity, and cohesiveness... especially on the offensive line.. Each team in the NFL at that time had the same tools to work with. Same rules for all. Hell, in Landry's time you had 20 rounds in the draft, and you could trade. 6 preseason games for evaluations and familiarity with the playbooks. So, no FA 's applied to all. Level playing ground. Bill B coached 2 years before FA. He only had 1 winning season in his next 3 years with Free Agency. Today he is considered to be one of the top 3 coaches of all time. Landry is also considered among the top coaches of all time. You don't build a winner in 2 years when you inherit a team near the bottom. |
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Post by Jomo on Oct 18, 2021 18:09:33 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act. The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now? He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions. After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3. This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games. Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years. Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years. You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification. Give the criticism a break. I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them. Zim. I agree that he’s definitely been dealt a bad hand. Especially this year with the offensive injuries. What no one saw coming is the complete lack of defense. They lost Martinez but every other guy is playing worse than last year. Not a good sign for the coaching staff. But there’s also been some questionable decisions on his part that are hard to explain. But Roswell, he's the HC and it's his job to understand his coordinator's talents and the roster he's got. That is not on the fans is it? All we are down is Martinez and Tomlineson.. We signed a DT and an upgrade at CB and we drafted an edge rusher high. The rest of the D is young and should have improved but they didn't. Judge can't hide from that. He missed it. I'm not going to kill the guy but it is now year 2 and his rhetoric isn't having impact and he missed that his D is no good. It is not fair perhaps but, how many more years before we call it a mistake? Yes it all backs up to JM. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 18, 2021 18:13:25 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act. The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now? He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions. After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3. This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games. Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years. Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years. You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification. Give the criticism a break. I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them. I hear what you say. And I am for Judge having another year at the least regardless, but he is obviously oblivious at times. STs coach who had his punting team completely forget to cover the gunner on 4th and 11? Got wiped out by penalty but still. That's just one example. He appears in over his head, which is expected given he has never been a HC ever before at any level. He is green and learning. The problem is, after the past decade, our fan base and team has lost all patience. Worst team in the NFL for 70 games straight. If things aren't working in 2 or 3 years, move on to the next. With so many other rebuilds and HCs flying right past ours coming in around the same time, it's a tough pill to swallow. Look at Arizona. Look at SF. They were awful too a few years ago when we hired Judge. My opinion is to fire DG (shocker I know) and keep Judge and DJ for at least 1 more year. New GM will have a red shirt year basically on the performance of the coaching. If it fails in 2022, new GM grabs the reins and takes over completely. |
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coughlinscorner
Special Teams
Gooble Gobble We Accept Her One of Us
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Post by coughlinscorner on Oct 18, 2021 18:14:18 GMT -5
I like Joe Judge's message and philosophy, but other than his ability to articulate his message/philosophy (which his team has certainly not lived up to), what has he shown to indicate that he can be a good coach in this league? Hitting your talking points is fine, but eventually that has to be backed up by team performance or else you're doing nothing but blowing hot air. He has a bright future in TED talks once his coaching career is over. (hopefully soon) |
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Post by Zimonami on Oct 18, 2021 18:21:58 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act. The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now? He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions. After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3. This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games. Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years. Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years. You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification. Give the criticism a break. I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them. Zim. I agree that he’s definitely been dealt a bad hand. Especially this year with the offensive injuries. What no one saw coming is the complete lack of defense. They lost Martinez but every other guy is playing worse than last year. Not a good sign for the coaching staff. But there’s also been some questionable decisions on his part that are hard to explain. Circumstances in many cases. Mark my words, cuz I won't be here... he'll be coaching consistently good teams in another 2-3 years. The guy is just getting his start as a head coach at 40 years old, and started with a very bad team that was 12-36 in the 3 years prior to his hiring. He doesn't have the same players out there now that he had last half of last season, Are the injuries to the starters his fault? There are several practice Squad players starting on our team. Is that the coaches fault? He has the worst OLIne in the NFL. Is that because of coaching? Or because the 5 starters are not nearly good enough quality. Hernandez is 1 starter out of 5 that was a starter last year. Our TE's are average at best. Our top receivers are out. Their replacements were, according to Carl Banks, running wrong routes, and were not quality enough to be on the 53 man roster to start the year. Our top RB is out. Our QB played in a game yesterday that he shouldn't have been in. |
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Post by Jomo on Oct 18, 2021 18:24:20 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act. The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now? He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions. After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3. This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games. Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years. Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years. You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification. Give the criticism a break. I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them. I hear what you say. And I am for Judge having another year at the least regardless, but he is obviously oblivious at times. STs coach who had his punting team completely forget to cover the gunner on 4th and 11? Got wiped out by penalty but still. That's just one example. He appears in over his head, which is expected given he has never been a HC ever before at any level. He is green and learning. The problem is, after the past decade, our fan base and team has lost all patience. Worst team in the NFL for 70 games straight. If things aren't working in 2 or 3 years, move on to the next. With so many other rebuilds and HCs flying right past ours coming in around the same time, it's a tough pill to swallow. Look at Arizona. Look at SF. They were awful too a few years ago when we hired Judge. My opinion is to fire DG (shocker I know) and keep Judge and DJ for at least 1 more year. New GM will have a red shirt year basically on the performance of the coaching. If it fails in 2022, new GM grabs the reins and takes over completely. That is fair, he hasn't been dealt a fair deck and this owner will never deal anyone a fair deck. Releasing him won't fix anything. I am OK with him being here for another year but if they release DG are we going saddle yet another GM with someone else's HC? This is a maddening cycle of Mara induced incompetence. |
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coughlinscorner
Special Teams
Gooble Gobble We Accept Her One of Us
Posts: 854
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Post by coughlinscorner on Oct 18, 2021 18:31:00 GMT -5
Different time. Those comparisons are not relevant in this era of free agency. In the modern NFL, 2 years if a fair shake for any coach to show he's the right choice. This team is moving backwards. He's 7-15, the criticisms are fair. Is it over for Judge? Could he possibly save himself? Of course he could, but he better get moving, like this week. Don't give me that crap about different times. Even now you rarely see a team catapult from the bottom 5 to the top 5 teams in just a year or 2. it takes time for a team to build comraderie, familiarity, and cohesiveness... especially on the offensive line.. Each team in the NFL at that time had the same tools to work with. Same rules for all. Hell, in Landry's time you had 20 rounds in the draft, and you could trade. 6 preseason games for evaluations and familiarity with the playbooks. So, no FA 's applied to all. Level playing ground. Bill B coached 2 years before FA. He only had 1 winning season in his next 3 years with Free Agency. Today he is considered to be one of the top 3 coaches of all time. Landry is also considered among the top coaches of all time. You don't build a winner in 2 years when you inherit a team near the bottom. Let me give you a few examples:
Kliff Kingsbury took over a 3-13 team went 5-10-1 his first year, 8-8 his 2nd and is 6-0 this year.
Kyle Shanahan took over a 2-14 team went 6-10, 4-12 and then 13-3
Sean McVay took over a 4-12 team went 11-5, 13-3 and 9-7
Frank Reich took over a 4-12 team went 10-6, 7-9 and 11-5 If you want to say Judge is only in year 2 that's fine but its hard to make a case how this team has a winning record next year. |
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Eazy E
Special Teams
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Post by Eazy E on Oct 18, 2021 19:26:34 GMT -5
Unfortunately the NFL comes down to results. The GM is going to have a microscope on him, he won't survive or at least shouldn't. The head coach goes through the same thing. Results matter in this league, the pressure will rise. Another one thats going to get looked at is Daniel Jones with his 28% career winning percentage. Thats horrible for a starting QB no matter how you look at it. Whats going to happen in the next 10 games? Are we going .500 or is 1 and 9 or 0-10 more feasible. That winning % after 3 years would be hovering 22%. Thats almost NFL historically bad for a 3 year starter in the NFL. Why would any NFL QB get a 4th year after those kind of results. This league is unforgiving. Not saying thats whats going to happen but it certainly looks possible.
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Post by McCherry on Oct 18, 2021 19:32:24 GMT -5
Different time. Those comparisons are not relevant in this era of free agency. In the modern NFL, 2 years if a fair shake for any coach to show he's the right choice. This team is moving backwards. He's 7-15, the criticisms are fair. Is it over for Judge? Could he possibly save himself? Of course he could, but he better get moving, like this week. Don't give me that crap about different times. Even now you rarely see a team catapult from the bottom 5 to the top 5 teams in just a year or 2. it takes time for a team to build comraderie, familiarity, and cohesiveness... especially on the offensive line.. Each team in the NFL at that time had the same tools to work with. Same rules for all. Hell, in Landry's time you had 20 rounds in the draft, and you could trade. 6 preseason games for evaluations and familiarity with the playbooks. So, no FA 's applied to all. Level playing ground. Bill B coached 2 years before FA. He only had 1 winning season in his next 3 years with Free Agency. Today he is considered to be one of the top 3 coaches of all time. Landry is also considered among the top coaches of all time. You don't build a winner in 2 years when you inherit a team near the bottom.No, but you can show that you have the team headed in the right direction. Caches like Kevin Stefanski and Kliff Kingsbury have done that within 2 seasons. Right now, Judge has the team headed on the wrong direction. How is he any different than Shurmur or McAdoo? And Judge has had the benefit of nearly $400M spent in free agency the past two years. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 18, 2021 19:56:34 GMT -5
Don't give me that crap about different times. Even now you rarely see a team catapult from the bottom 5 to the top 5 teams in just a year or 2. it takes time for a team to build comraderie, familiarity, and cohesiveness... especially on the offensive line.. Each team in the NFL at that time had the same tools to work with. Same rules for all. Hell, in Landry's time you had 20 rounds in the draft, and you could trade. 6 preseason games for evaluations and familiarity with the playbooks. So, no FA 's applied to all. Level playing ground. Bill B coached 2 years before FA. He only had 1 winning season in his next 3 years with Free Agency. Today he is considered to be one of the top 3 coaches of all time. Landry is also considered among the top coaches of all time. You don't build a winner in 2 years when you inherit a team near the bottom.No, but you can show that you have the team headed in the right direction. Caches like Kevin Stefanski and Kliff Kingsbury have done that within 2 seasons. Right now, Judge has the team headed on the wrong direction. How is he any different than Shurmur or McAdoo? And Judge has had the benefit of nearly $400M spent in free agency the past two years. Not to mention McAdoo got us 11 wins and a playoff and still got fired. We need to see progress by year end of he might be another 2 year HC. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 18, 2021 19:59:10 GMT -5
Don't give me that crap about different times. Even now you rarely see a team catapult from the bottom 5 to the top 5 teams in just a year or 2. it takes time for a team to build comraderie, familiarity, and cohesiveness... especially on the offensive line.. Each team in the NFL at that time had the same tools to work with. Same rules for all. Hell, in Landry's time you had 20 rounds in the draft, and you could trade. 6 preseason games for evaluations and familiarity with the playbooks. So, no FA 's applied to all. Level playing ground. Bill B coached 2 years before FA. He only had 1 winning season in his next 3 years with Free Agency. Today he is considered to be one of the top 3 coaches of all time. Landry is also considered among the top coaches of all time. You don't build a winner in 2 years when you inherit a team near the bottom. Let me give you a few examples:
Kliff Kingsbury took over a 3-13 team went 5-10-1 his first year, 8-8 his 2nd and is 6-0 this year.
Kyle Shanahan took over a 2-14 team went 6-10, 4-12 and then 13-3
Sean McVay took over a 4-12 team went 11-5, 13-3 and 9-7
Frank Reich took over a 4-12 team went 10-6, 7-9 and 11-5 If you want to say Judge is only in year 2 that's fine but its hard to make a case how this team has a winning record next year. I think Vrabal is another too. Titans were bad for a while. Sean McDermott with the Bills too. |
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Post by TCHOF on Oct 18, 2021 20:00:56 GMT -5
The equation Judge has in front of him is impossible for an experienced head coach, let alone a guy who's never been a HC on any level before last year. It should be very interesting to see if he can still control the room. For my money, they looked like there was a little bit of quit in them in the second half. But they seemingly like him, so I expect them to play hard vs Carolina. If they are not competitive against the Panthers, i don’t know if Judge will be able to hold the ship together |
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Post by vinnie on Oct 18, 2021 20:01:22 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act. The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now? He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions. After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3. This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games. Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years. Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years. You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification. Give the criticism a break. I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them. I hear what you say. And I am for Judge having another year at the least regardless, but he is obviously oblivious at times. STs coach who had his punting team completely forget to cover the gunner on 4th and 11? Got wiped out by penalty but still. That's just one example. He appears in over his head, which is expected given he has never been a HC ever before at any level. He is green and learning. The problem is, after the past decade, our fan base and team has lost all patience. Worst team in the NFL for 70 games straight. If things aren't working in 2 or 3 years, move on to the next. With so many other rebuilds and HCs flying right past ours coming in around the same time, it's a tough pill to swallow. Look at Arizona. Look at SF. They were awful too a few years ago when we hired Judge. My opinion is to fire DG (shocker I know) and keep Judge and DJ for at least 1 more year. New GM will have a red shirt year basically on the performance of the coaching. If it fails in 2022, new GM grabs the reins and takes over completely. I’m not a big Judge fan and jury is still out in Jones but I would be ok with Mara telling the new GM he had to keep both for next year and then he would have full control if he didn’t want either. I’ve already chalked next year up to another losing season. There’s no good QB’s in the draft. Build the O line, not the keep the scrubs DG has trotted out there, get and edge, LB’er and TE. Jones should have enough to work with, barring any injuries, and if he’s not then guy we go all (giving up several picks if we need to)in on a QB in 2023 who should have most of the pieces already in place to succeed and we’ll have him on a rookie contract. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 18, 2021 20:08:54 GMT -5
I hear what you say. And I am for Judge having another year at the least regardless, but he is obviously oblivious at times. STs coach who had his punting team completely forget to cover the gunner on 4th and 11? Got wiped out by penalty but still. That's just one example. He appears in over his head, which is expected given he has never been a HC ever before at any level. He is green and learning. The problem is, after the past decade, our fan base and team has lost all patience. Worst team in the NFL for 70 games straight. If things aren't working in 2 or 3 years, move on to the next. With so many other rebuilds and HCs flying right past ours coming in around the same time, it's a tough pill to swallow. Look at Arizona. Look at SF. They were awful too a few years ago when we hired Judge. My opinion is to fire DG (shocker I know) and keep Judge and DJ for at least 1 more year. New GM will have a red shirt year basically on the performance of the coaching. If it fails in 2022, new GM grabs the reins and takes over completely. I’m not a big Judge fan and jury is still out in Jones but I would be ok with Mara telling the new GM he had to keep both for next year and then he would have full control if he didn’t want either. I’ve already chalked next year up to another losing season. There’s no good QB’s in the draft. Build the O line, not the keep the scrubs DG has trotted out there, get and edge, LB’er and TE. Jones should have enough to work with, barring any injuries, and if he’s not then guy we go all (giving up several picks if we need to)in on a QB in 2023 who should have most of the pieces already in place to succeed and we’ll have him on a rookie contract. Exactly. And the ideal situation probably involves us trading back with our pick this year to get more ammo in 2023s draft. We will probably have a top 5-6 pick again so it's very possible to move back about 5 spots and get another 1st in 2023. This team is going to need a ton of draft picks the next couple of years and a GM who doesn't suck at making these picks. |
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Post by Zimonami on Oct 18, 2021 20:25:23 GMT -5
Don't give me that crap about different times. Even now you rarely see a team catapult from the bottom 5 to the top 5 teams in just a year or 2. it takes time for a team to build comraderie, familiarity, and cohesiveness... especially on the offensive line.. Each team in the NFL at that time had the same tools to work with. Same rules for all. Hell, in Landry's time you had 20 rounds in the draft, and you could trade. 6 preseason games for evaluations and familiarity with the playbooks. So, no FA 's applied to all. Level playing ground. Bill B coached 2 years before FA. He only had 1 winning season in his next 3 years with Free Agency. Today he is considered to be one of the top 3 coaches of all time. Landry is also considered among the top coaches of all time. You don't build a winner in 2 years when you inherit a team near the bottom.No, but you can show that you have the team headed in the right direction. Caches like Kevin Stefanski and Kliff Kingsbury have done that within 2 seasons. Right now, Judge has the team headed on the wrong direction. How is he any different than Shurmur or McAdoo? And Judge has had the benefit of nearly $400M spent in free agency the past two years. Geezuz... don't you think a team missing 8 of it's starting offensive starters has a problem. Their Captain on Defense is missing, and a replacement for Tomlinson hasn't stepped up, in addition to Adoree Jackson being out. In addition the zone schemed suck. When you end up with Peppers covering Kupp, you've got a mismatcvh problem/ You don't win in the NFL when you have started 6 different O Lines in 6 games. And 3 of your best 4 WR's are out. What I will say is that the players aren't playing as hard for him this year as last. 11 of the 22 starting players that were penciled in at the beginning of 2021 season have not been playing> Give Jones a good OLIne and WR's, and RB, and TE, and keep starters on the field, and both Judge and Jones would be doing much better. You can't make Filet Mignon with Chuck Steak players. But, it's Judges fault for not performing a damnbed miracle. Get real. |
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Post by bigbluejeep8888 on Oct 18, 2021 20:41:05 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act. The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now? He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions. After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3. This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games. Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years. Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years. You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification. Give the criticism a break. I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them. Landry and bellicheck are like hitting the powerball. No coach in the past 20 years with an under .375% winning % over his first 2 years has ever been able to turn it around. Bellicheck was considered a defensive genius. Judge wasnt considered some genius special teams coordinator. Special teams is very inconsistent anways. Special teams coordinators don't become head coaches for a reason. Yes Harbaugh the exception, but how many other successful Special team coordinators have become great head coaches in the past 20 years? Yeah we might be a little impatient but when you have a head coach and gm laughing at computer guys, yet all we do is lose, something is seriously wrong with the giants organization. If judge was like rhule and had a resume of turning around teams (yes college but it's better than nothing) and was also forward thinking in terms of analytics, I'd be all for keeping him for at least year 3. We also have Doug pederson sitting at home with a superbowl ring and loves analytics. There is no reason why pedersom should not get a shot in 2022. |
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Post by bigbluejeep8888 on Oct 18, 2021 21:04:29 GMT -5
No, but you can show that you have the team headed in the right direction. Caches like Kevin Stefanski and Kliff Kingsbury have done that within 2 seasons. Right now, Judge has the team headed on the wrong direction. How is he any different than Shurmur or McAdoo? And Judge has had the benefit of nearly $400M spent in free agency the past two years. Not to mention McAdoo got us 11 wins and a playoff and still got fired. We need to see progress by year end of he might be another 2 year HC. I'm done with meaningless second half wins. I want wins vs a subpar Atlanta team. I want a win on a Thursday night early in the season vs WFT. And Godforbid I want the first game of the regular season vs the Broncos to not be an extention of the pre season and have the team look totally unprepared. I'm ok with losing to the Rams and cowboys I get it they have better talent than the giants. But there is no reason why the Giants need to be out coached too. Beating the dolphins, bears, eagles with nothing to lose cause the season is over means nothing to me. |
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Post by vinnie on Oct 18, 2021 21:25:28 GMT -5
No, but you can show that you have the team headed in the right direction. Caches like Kevin Stefanski and Kliff Kingsbury have done that within 2 seasons. Right now, Judge has the team headed on the wrong direction. How is he any different than Shurmur or McAdoo? And Judge has had the benefit of nearly $400M spent in free agency the past two years. Geezuz... don't you think a team missing 8 of it's starting offensive starters has a problem. Their Captain on Defense is missing, and a replacement for Tomlinson hasn't stepped up, in addition to Adoree Jackson being out. In addition the zone schemed suck. When you end up with Peppers covering Kupp, you've got a mismatcvh problem/ You don't win in the NFL when you have started 6 different O Lines in 6 games. And 3 of your best 4 WR's are out. What I will say is that the players aren't playing as hard for him this year as last. 11 of the 22 starting players that were penciled in at the beginning of 2021 season have not been playing> Give Jones a good OLIne and WR's, and RB, and TE, and keep starters on the field, and both Judge and Jones would be doing much better. You can't make Filet Mignon with Chuck Steak players. But, it's Judges fault for not performing a damnbed miracle. Get real. How many starting QB’s wouldn’t be doing better with a good O line, WR’s, RB and TE? Judge can possibly get somewhat of a pass for the injuries but that doesn’t excuse the defense, lack of discipline, bone headed challenges and use of TO’s, incompetent in game decisions, weak coaching staff, players unprepared and overall he seems to be in over his head. |
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Post by vinnie on Oct 18, 2021 21:44:24 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act. The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now? He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions. After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3. This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games. Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years. Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years. You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification. Give the criticism a break. I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them. Weren’t 4 out of those 5 wins against back up QB’s and the other win was with out back up QB? He’s had 6 different O lines partly because he continues to rotate players in out of the game and from position to position, which is absurd. Tom Landry? Great. I can name several coaches that sucked at the beginning and continued to suck 5-10 years later. Look no further than J Garrett. Instant gratification? Ten years is instant gratification? How about some of us can see the writing on the wall, like we did with Gettleman from day 1, and others can’t. LOL, give the criticism a break? Do you expect us to break out our pom poms and post about all the positives from each game?We would have about 2 threads a week. That last sentence about Judge is just funny because he hasn’t shown any reason he is qualified to be a HC, even if you took the injuries out of it. |
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Post by GameTime on Oct 18, 2021 21:50:52 GMT -5
Most of you on here are not what I'd call a class act. The man is in his 2nd year with a team that's been totally reconstructed and which is decimated of quality starting players. Hell how many Practice squad players are we playing now? He is 40. He took the reigns in a year with no preseason games, a QB in his 2nd year learning his new system, and a lot of holes at several positions. After a 1-7 start he brought them to 5-3. This year is even rougher, with 6 different starting OLines in 6 games. Tom Landry, that great Hall of Fame Coach? He was 18-46 in his first 5 years. Bill Belichick was 36-44 with Cleveland his first 5 years. You're all like little impatient, petulent children, hoping for instant gratification. Give the criticism a break. I have said this since last year... you get rid of Daniel Jones or Joe Judge to a team with better players than the sub par quality we have, and you'll be watching another team thrive with either of them. I cant take it anymore Zim. I have tried to remain optimistic. Thought after the Saints game they were turning the corner. fair or not I am sick of all of it Sick of the bad execution Sick of the lame ass game plans Sick of the injuries Sick of the Judge's long winded pressers that say nothing at this point Sick and tired. |
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 18, 2021 21:52:15 GMT -5
Different time. Those comparisons are not relevant in this era of free agency. In the modern NFL, 2 years if a fair shake for any coach to show he's the right choice. This team is moving backwards. He's 7-15, the criticisms are fair. Is it over for Judge? Could he possibly save himself? Of course he could, but he better get moving, like this week. Don't give me that crap about different times. Even now you rarely see a team catapult from the bottom 5 to the top 5 teams in just a year or 2. it takes time for a team to build comraderie, familiarity, and cohesiveness... especially on the offensive line.. Each team in the NFL at that time had the same tools to work with. Same rules for all. Hell, in Landry's time you had 20 rounds in the draft, and you could trade. 6 preseason games for evaluations and familiarity with the playbooks. So, no FA 's applied to all. Level playing ground. Bill B coached 2 years before FA. He only had 1 winning season in his next 3 years with Free Agency. Today he is considered to be one of the top 3 coaches of all time. Landry is also considered among the top coaches of all time. You don't build a winner in 2 years when you inherit a team near the bottom. The most important thing any coach can do is get the most out of his players. I would say that he has failed in that so far. I guess your argument is that that could change moving forward. Well.....Maybe so. But the NFL is a results oriented business. And so far....the results are bad.
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