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Post by thetruth on Oct 20, 2021 15:37:33 GMT -5
He has definitely cut down on the turnovers which is great. But that's only half of what you quoted. 4 TDs in 6 games? After putting up 11 TDs in 14 games last season? That's dismal in today's NFL. I'd love to see Daniel throw more TD's. It's hard to do when he's being asked to outrun LB's to the pylon. He’s in the top of the league in terms of stats like YPG, deep throwing comp %. But he's missing TD throws in the red zone? We know this is not what's happening. The TD stat doesn't tell the story. Since Garrett arrived, we were 31st in red zone scoring % last year. So far, 32nd this year. Garretts terrible. But Romo and Dak ran the same scheme. Yes with a much better OL but hey, the GM knew we had a problem, didn't address it.
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Post by bluebuddha on Oct 20, 2021 15:45:39 GMT -5
This is highly skewed overview. 3 INT's came in the one bad game which we know the circumstances, and one was a hail mary. Jones has had 1 game in the last 13 starts where he was responsible for multiple turnovers. He has definitely cut down on the turnovers which is great. But that's only half of what you quoted. 4 TDs in 6 games? After putting up 11 TDs in 14 games last season? That's dismal in today's NFL. No he a modern day qb you just don't understand. He is really really good we just haven't see it yet. We won't see it this year either because he has absolutely no talent around him. Next year might not be his year either since we have replenish talent. Maybe 2 years. I bet 3 years from now he will blow your socks off how good he is. Then you will ask " Bluebuddha let me on that wagon wontcha?" I'll say "sorry pal this wagon is full hit the road buster." Really guys best darn QB I ever seen on the worst roster in the history of Football.
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Post by Roswell on Oct 20, 2021 15:47:25 GMT -5
Let's see. No Oline, one WR, no RB.... Yeah, he should be putting up great numbers. Isn't there some mid-ground between "great" numbers and horrifically bad numbers? 4 TD's in 6 games after 11 TD's all of last season is horrifically bad. There is. Those are weak numbers. But I don't think I've ever seen a team suffer this many injuries on one side of the ball and only one on the other. And it's the healthy side that's killing them more than the injured side.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 20, 2021 15:52:02 GMT -5
He has 4 TDs and 4 INTs through 6 games.You can say he's had one "bad game" but honestly he's also only had one good game (vs NO). This is the 6th overall pick in his third year. This is highly skewed overview. 3 INT's came in the one bad game which we know the circumstances, and one was a hail mary. Jones has had 1 game in the last 13 starts where he was responsible for multiple turnovers. The numbers suggest that he has sacrificed play making for ball security. When his turnovers go down so do his TD passes.
He threw 9 more TD's his first 12 games (2019) than all his games since (about 19 1/2 games)
He went from 2 TD's per game to way less than 1 per game. That's a huge reduction.
The turnovers are way down....but so is his productivity. It's a concern.
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Post by McCherry on Oct 20, 2021 15:54:49 GMT -5
This is highly skewed overview. 3 INT's came in the one bad game which we know the circumstances, and one was a hail mary. Jones has had 1 game in the last 13 starts where he was responsible for multiple turnovers. The turnover numbers are not nearly as bad as the TD numbers. 4 TD's in 6 games after only 11 TD's all of last season. That is horrifically bad in 2021 NFL I agree. And I'm not saying that Jones doesn't bear some responsibility. But he can move the team up and down the field, he can make all the throws, but for some reason he can't throw TD's? I don't buy it, and for the most part this is not what seems to be happening when we get inside the red zone. Especially the 10-yard line.
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 20, 2021 16:20:24 GMT -5
every year we keep blaming the O line for our offensive woes but those guys up there aren't the ones dropping passes or not getting open, a lot of teams don't have good O lines but they find a way to win by helping their team, something is seriously wrong with the NY Giants and it goes a lot deeper than the players, even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes but we can't find out whats wrong with this team and after a bunch of seasons we still suck....
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Post by kerryisdaman on Oct 20, 2021 16:23:55 GMT -5
Does anyone know how many actual pass attempts he has had in the endzone this season?
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Post by kerryisdaman on Oct 20, 2021 16:25:31 GMT -5
every year we keep blaming the O line for our offensive woes but those guys up there aren't the ones dropping passes or not getting open, a lot of teams don't have good O lines but they find a way to win by helping their team, something is seriously wrong with the NY Giants and it goes a lot deeper than the players, even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes but we can't find out whats wrong with this team and after a bunch of seasons we still suck.... Do they (oline) deserve blame? Did anyone go and look back at the first play vs the Rams? That may have been a huge pass play maybe even a TD if DJ does not get sacked. I do think we need a great Oline coach like the Cowboys have.
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 20, 2021 16:28:17 GMT -5
every year we keep blaming the O line for our offensive woes but those guys up there aren't the ones dropping passes or not getting open, a lot of teams don't have good O lines but they find a way to win by helping their team, something is seriously wrong with the NY Giants and it goes a lot deeper than the players, even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes but we can't find out whats wrong with this team and after a bunch of seasons we still suck.... Do they (oline) deserve blame? Did anyone go and look back at the first play vs the Rams? That may have been a huge pass play maybe even a TD if DJ does not get sacked. I do think we need a great Oline coach like the Cowboys have. of course the O line deserves a share of the blame but definitely not the Lions share that they are getting..
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Post by kerryisdaman on Oct 20, 2021 16:41:08 GMT -5
Do they (oline) deserve blame? Did anyone go and look back at the first play vs the Rams? That may have been a huge pass play maybe even a TD if DJ does not get sacked. I do think we need a great Oline coach like the Cowboys have. of course the O line deserves a share of the blame but definitely not the Lions share that they are getting.. I think there is plenty of blame to go around but I view the oline as the worst on offense by far. I do not have faith in them pass blocking nor run blocking. I think that effects everyone else. Go look at that first play against the Rams. We had a WR starting to get open deep. I dont know who it was but 1 more second and that could have been an amazing TD to open the game.
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Eazy E
Special Teams
Posts: 1,498
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Post by Eazy E on Oct 20, 2021 18:03:43 GMT -5
www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html The game is about wins and losses unfortunately. The evidence shows here, active QBs with 20+ starts and Daniel Jones compares to 2 QBs that the Giants know very well. Colt Mccoy and Mike Glennon as far as winning % and career victories. Thats what the list says. Daniel Jones has one 1 more victory than Colt and 3 more than Glennon. Its not comparing other starters or former starters. They have higher winning percentages. This is bottom of the barrel. The list shows it. Are we about to run off 10 straight wins to make it look better? DJ is winning at a 28% rate. The list shows that you will not be starting much longer if you maintain that level. No matter what anybody thinks, weapons or not. What other franchise will hand DJ the keys to the franchise if we keep on losing. GMs and coaches are worried about their jobs all the time, I don't think anybody will gamble their personal career on such a QB.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 20, 2021 18:16:48 GMT -5
www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html The game is about wins and losses unfortunately. The evidence shows here, active QBs with 20+ starts and Daniel Jones compares to 2 QBs that the Giants know very well. Colt Mccoy and Mike Glennon as far as winning % and career victories. Thats what the list says. Daniel Jones has one 1 more victory than Colt and 3 more than Glennon. Its not comparing other starters or former starters. They have higher winning percentages. This is bottom of the barrel. The list shows it. Are we about to run off 10 straight wins to make it look better? DJ is winning at a 28% rate. The list shows that you will not be starting much longer if you maintain that level. No matter what anybody thinks, weapons or not. What other franchise will hand DJ the keys to the franchise if we keep on losing. GMs and coaches are worried about their jobs all the time, I don't think anybody will gamble their personal career on such a QB. I'm pretty sure the 49ers were glad as hell when Tampa decided to ditch Steve Young probably for that reason ..
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Eazy E
Special Teams
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Post by Eazy E on Oct 20, 2021 18:18:05 GMT -5
11 Tds for a starting QB in an entire season is not just bad for todays game. Its like historically awful for an NFL QB. Its really bad. Im not hating on DJ, just looking at the info. I want to win, so tired of losing. DJ has potential but this organization is in shambles. If this dude doesn't pick it up in the second half, I see no reason to run him out there a 4th season.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 20, 2021 18:27:46 GMT -5
11 Tds for a starting QB in an entire season is not just bad for todays game. Its like historically awful for an NFL QB. Its really bad. Im not hating on DJ, just looking at the info. I want to win, so tired of losing. DJ has potential but this organization is in shambles. If this dude doesn't pick it up in the second half, I see no reason to run him out there a 4th season. So who are you going to replace him with? This qb class is trash We are not a qh away from a championship to trade for an established good one nor are we in a good cap situation to sign Rodgers or something.
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Eazy E
Special Teams
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Post by Eazy E on Oct 20, 2021 18:32:42 GMT -5
www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm I don't know why you compare him. He played 2 seasons with the Tampa Bay losers before going to San Fran. He amassed just over a season in total games played with Tampa Bay. Steve Young is a Hall of Famer. I bet he would spit his drink up if he was compared to Daniel Jones. He can't be compared to Dak Prescott, Brees, Rodgers, Young, Eli, Trubisky, etc. Until he actually does something in this league, he is what he is. We haven't got to the playoffs, haven't had a 10+ wins in a season, haven't had a a .500 season, so how can he compare to any QB with such accomplishments. We aren't even talking Super Bowl Titles. DJ hasn't earned any of that. When your a franchise QB in this league, those are the type of standards that are laid on you. If you can't get it done, then its next man up. Thats the bottom line. Its a show me something league.
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Eazy E
Special Teams
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Post by Eazy E on Oct 20, 2021 18:39:13 GMT -5
This whole situation sucks. I don't know what else to say. I wish DJ was the savior of this team because we certainly need it. I can't take a 3 year reboot with another QB. Talk about awful.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 20, 2021 18:45:10 GMT -5
This whole situation sucks. I don't know what else to say. I wish DJ was the savior of this team because we certainly need it. I can't take a 3 year reboot with another QB. Talk about awful. Jones is the least of our problems right now We probably have to rebuild 75% of our defense AGAIN after all the cap and draft resources we used on that side of the ball since the idiot was hired as GM
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Eazy E
Special Teams
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Post by Eazy E on Oct 20, 2021 18:54:25 GMT -5
I know man , its awful.
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Post by Roswell on Oct 20, 2021 19:32:47 GMT -5
The turnover numbers are not nearly as bad as the TD numbers. 4 TD's in 6 games after only 11 TD's all of last season. That is horrifically bad in 2021 NFL I agree. And I'm not saying that Jones doesn't bear some responsibility. But he can move the team up and down the field, he can make all the throws, but for some reason he can't throw TD's? I don't buy it, and for the most part this is not what seems to be happening when we get inside the red zone. Especially the 10-yard line. Agreed. It wouldn’t surprise if the Giants were as good as most teams between the 20s. The red zone is the dead zone for them.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 20, 2021 21:27:19 GMT -5
www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html The game is about wins and losses unfortunately. The evidence shows here, active QBs with 20+ starts and Daniel Jones compares to 2 QBs that the Giants know very well. Colt Mccoy and Mike Glennon as far as winning % and career victories. Thats what the list says. Daniel Jones has one 1 more victory than Colt and 3 more than Glennon. Its not comparing other starters or former starters. They have higher winning percentages. This is bottom of the barrel. The list shows it. Are we about to run off 10 straight wins to make it look better? DJ is winning at a 28% rate. The list shows that you will not be starting much longer if you maintain that level. No matter what anybody thinks, weapons or not. What other franchise will hand DJ the keys to the franchise if we keep on losing. GMs and coaches are worried about their jobs all the time, I don't think anybody will gamble their personal career on such a QB. Wait....it's wins now? I always knew Stafford sucked.
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giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,902
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Post by giantsalmon on Oct 20, 2021 21:41:22 GMT -5
This whole situation sucks. I don't know what else to say. I wish DJ was the savior of this team because we certainly need it. I can't take a 3 year reboot with another QB. Talk about awful. Jones is the least of our problems right now We probably have to rebuild 75% of our defense AGAIN after all the cap and draft resources we used on that side of the ball since the idiot was hired as GM If the Giants gave up on Jones he would get scooped up in a nano second. He has shouldered this horrific situation he has been placed in with maturity. IMO, he will be better for it. Most of his TOs are textbook pressing, or WRs mishandling routes or even the ball. You guys have seen the clips--the team on both sides of the ball believes in him. He won them over with his toughness but that will not overcome roster shortcomings or strategy shortcomings. It's as simple as DJ was tossing TD passes under Shurmur, but under Garrett he has been stunted. After last season I truly felt an OC change would have happened.
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Post by ocgiant on Oct 20, 2021 22:35:00 GMT -5
I thought DJ was going to get the season to determine whether he can show enough consistency, improvement and progress?
The team around him stinks DL can't stop anything, the OL is musical chairs, no SB, EE a bust again, Rudolph should retire, Toney the only spark on the flameout of a team and he's hurt is a lot to overcome and no it's not an excuse. Name 5 QB's that could have come here an significantly improve the current Giants record and have them playing better than they are now? Brady, Murray, Lamar, Allen or Mahomes? How many games would they put in the W column? 1 maybe 2 that's it.
Let the kid play out the season besides next year's QB class is not great so DJ probably sticks around so the Giants bring a Tyrod type QB and have some competition in camp next season and keep rebuilding, if the Giants wait long enough they can draft Manning's kid, LOL.
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Post by KingCap88 on Oct 21, 2021 1:23:15 GMT -5
I read somewhere that Jason Garrett told Jones that if he didn't stop fumbling the ball he wouldn't last long in this league and he isn't fumbling as much. With that said, I like Jones. I think he has a good arm and I love the athleticism, but I'm still not totally sold on him being a franchise QB.
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Post by GameTime on Oct 21, 2021 7:23:23 GMT -5
Jones has had a tough row to hoe because of the team, organization, coaching around him. Add in his own struggles with trying to be a starting QB in the NFL and it adds up to what we see every week.
He would have to be an all time sensation to emerge as a real franchise NFL QB form the shit show that has surrounded him.
If I was some of these players I would want to be released, traded or let go. They'd possible be better off.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2021 7:27:07 GMT -5
Jones has had a tough row to hoe because of the team, organization, coaching around him. Add in his own struggles with trying to be a starting QB in the NFL and it adds up to what we see every week. He would have to be an all time sensation to emerge as a real franchise NFL QB form the shit show that has surrounded him. If I was some of these players I would want to be released, traded or let go. They'd possible be better off. Darnold has been in the same situation so I'm curious to see how his career goes these next few years.. There are things to like about Jones but at some point wins need to happen or a change of scenery will occur..
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 21, 2021 13:03:07 GMT -5
Jones has had a tough row to hoe because of the team, organization, coaching around him. Add in his own struggles with trying to be a starting QB in the NFL and it adds up to what we see every week. He would have to be an all time sensation to emerge as a real franchise NFL QB form the shit show that has surrounded him. If I was some of these players I would want to be released, traded or let go. They'd possible be better off. Darnold has been in the same situation so I'm curious to see how his career goes these next few years.. There are things to like about Jones but at some point wins need to happen or a change of scenery will occur.. Maybe the Rams will trade for him
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2021 13:06:34 GMT -5
Darnold has been in the same situation so I'm curious to see how his career goes these next few years.. There are things to like about Jones but at some point wins need to happen or a change of scenery will occur.. Maybe the Rams will trade for him You need to do better!!
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 21, 2021 13:07:43 GMT -5
Darnold has been in the same situation so I'm curious to see how his career goes these next few years.. There are things to like about Jones but at some point wins need to happen or a change of scenery will occur.. Maybe the Rams will trade for him The ultimate bottom out for this franchise We decided to move on and we trade him to Denver for a 2nd Shurmer gets the guy he hand picked and he has a Drew Brees type career there Meanwhile we are in QB hell the next 15 years where an 8-9 record is considered a super bowl type year for us while Fredo's parade of sock puppets and string of HCs with ancient Giants ties keep the failure going
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2021 13:09:58 GMT -5
Maybe the Rams will trade for him The ultimate bottom out for this franchise We decided to move on and we trade him to Denver for a 2nd Shurmer gets the guy he hand picked and he has a Drew Brees type career there Meanwhile we are in QB hell the next 15 years where an 8-9 record is considered a super bowl type year for us while Fredo's parade of sock puppets and string of HCs with ancient Giants ties keep the failure going The doom and gloom is strong with you about this.. As is with most of us! GO GIANTS!!
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 21, 2021 13:45:00 GMT -5
Maybe the Rams will trade for him You need to do better!! It hits all the marks. That's a SB ready team that only needs a QB that is willing to roll the dice till they hit one. Plus it's a change of scenery. You're probably just mad you didn't think of it first!
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