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Post by snyder55 on Dec 6, 2021 17:00:16 GMT -5
what kind of GM would come here under these circumstances with a floundering HC who is obviously in over his head... Maybe his assessment is the head coach is floundering only because of the construction of the roster, and otherwise has the ability to be a successful coach. Maybe some of the philosophies the old GM instilled were wrong, and believes he can align with Judge to construct a roster differently and have success. I have no idea, all I'm saying is, I always find it very assumptive when that is thrown around - I think it's far from a settled fact and there is much more nuance to it. wouldn't you think we would see something in Judge by now to make us think he can turn this thing around...
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 6, 2021 17:05:10 GMT -5
what kind of GM would come here under these circumstances with a floundering HC who is obviously in over his head... Maybe his assessment is the head coach is floundering only because of the construction of the roster, and otherwise has the ability to be a successful coach. Maybe some of the philosophies the old GM instilled were wrong, and believes he can align with Judge to construct a roster differently and have success. I have no idea, all I'm saying is, I always find it very assumptive when that is thrown around - I think it's far from a settled fact and there is much more nuance to it. couldn't the same be said for a lot of failed HC's , I see Judge doing things in a game that tell me he is learning on the job and thats not a good thing for a team that is floundering...
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Post by jaymas on Dec 6, 2021 17:06:13 GMT -5
Maybe his assessment is the head coach is floundering only because of the construction of the roster, and otherwise has the ability to be a successful coach. Maybe some of the philosophies the old GM instilled were wrong, and believes he can align with Judge to construct a roster differently and have success. I have no idea, all I'm saying is, I always find it very assumptive when that is thrown around - I think it's far from a settled fact and there is much more nuance to it. wouldn't you think we would see something in Judge by now to make us think he can turn this thing around... Hey, I'm with you. I'm not high on Judge right now (don't know how anyone could be). But, personally, I don't want to fire another head coach too, it just doesn't happen in successful organizations. So to me, not half assing it, is going all in on something. Either you fire DG and Judge, and then you've got to fill two key positions (which worked out terribly for us last time), and you go very outside the Giants circle. Or, you put your eggs in the Judge basket and you get a GM with connections to him and you let them shape this team together. I understand the latter would make heads explode, but at least it commits to a strategy rather than what we've been doing since Coughlin "retired." Ossenfort and Judge are connected, Ossenfort has now worked for two successful organizations, he is not tied to the Giants of yesteryear. Give it a shot.
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 6, 2021 17:12:11 GMT -5
wouldn't you think we would see something in Judge by now to make us think he can turn this thing around... Hey, I'm with you. I'm not high on Judge right now (don't know how anyone could be). But, personally, I don't want to fire another head coach too, it just doesn't happen in successful organizations. So to me, not half assing it, is going all in on something. Either you fire DG and Judge, and then you've got to fill two key positions (which worked out terribly for us last time), and you go very outside the Giants circle. Or, you put your eggs in the Judge basket and you get a GM with connections to him and you let them shape this team together. I understand the latter would make heads explode, but at least it commits to a strategy rather than what we've been doing since Coughlin "retired." Ossenfort and Judge are connected, Ossenfort has now worked for two successful organizations, he is not tied to the Giants of yesteryear. Give it a shot. would any good quality GM come in and keep an unsuccessful HC, I just don't know...
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 6, 2021 17:16:03 GMT -5
wouldn't you think we would see something in Judge by now to make us think he can turn this thing around... Hey, I'm with you. I'm not high on Judge right now (don't know how anyone could be). But, personally, I don't want to fire another head coach too, it just doesn't happen in successful organizations. So to me, not half assing it, is going all in on something. Either you fire DG and Judge, and then you've got to fill two key positions (which worked out terribly for us last time), and you go very outside the Giants circle. Or, you put your eggs in the Judge basket and you get a GM with connections to him and you let them shape this team together. I understand the latter would make heads explode, but at least it commits to a strategy rather than what we've been doing since Coughlin "retired." Ossenfort and Judge are connected, Ossenfort has now worked for two successful organizations, he is not tied to the Giants of yesteryear. Give it a shot. Look at his work with Tennessee..whatever his role is... They basically rebuilt a super bowl contending team on the fly the past 2 offseasons,the only thing that is keeping them from being probably the team to beat in the AFC are a rash of bad injuries to important people... I actually think fans will like his approach to roster building if he continues with "The Titans way" along with Judge...
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Post by myronguyton on Dec 6, 2021 17:16:10 GMT -5
I've cooled down on my animosity toward Judge recently. He's been on the backburner of my list of grievances with the NYG. Definitely can't argue with this statement though.
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Post by jb456 on Dec 6, 2021 17:18:48 GMT -5
Hey, I'm with you. I'm not high on Judge right now (don't know how anyone could be). But, personally, I don't want to fire another head coach too, it just doesn't happen in successful organizations. So to me, not half assing it, is going all in on something. Either you fire DG and Judge, and then you've got to fill two key positions (which worked out terribly for us last time), and you go very outside the Giants circle. Or, you put your eggs in the Judge basket and you get a GM with connections to him and you let them shape this team together. I understand the latter would make heads explode, but at least it commits to a strategy rather than what we've been doing since Coughlin "retired." Ossenfort and Judge are connected, Ossenfort has now worked for two successful organizations, he is not tied to the Giants of yesteryear. Give it a shot. would any good quality GM come in and keep an unsuccessful HC, I just don't know... I do and the answer is no. He doesn't elevate the team, he doesn't run the offense or defense or call plays. He can't manage the game clock, his team isn't disciplined. WTF does this guy actually bring to the table? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm really wondering.
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 6, 2021 17:20:57 GMT -5
would any good quality GM come in and keep an unsuccessful HC, I just don't know... I do and the answer is no. He doesn't elevate the team, he doesn't run the offense or defense or call plays. He can't manage the game clock, his team isn't disciplined. WTF does this guy actually bring to the table? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm really wondering. I agree..
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Post by Kruunch on Dec 6, 2021 17:27:46 GMT -5
Judges ultimate sin is being born with a silver tongue, and shit for brains. Never believed the hype.. The fan in all of us wanted it to be true, we wanted him to be that guy to get us over the treacherous waters of NFL irrelevancy. He preaches discipline, and blue collar work ethic. He wanted to epitomize what the fan base was. And yet, all I see is smoke and mirrors. You already got the job, no longer do you have to eat, speak, shit football. You get paid to be a leader of men, and all I see is a small town kid who’s biting more than he can chew. He had an opportunity to be a head coach at his alma mater. No pressure, coaching in front of family and friends. The ultimate dream job for any young coach. Instead, he took the job from a floundering franchise begging for relevancy. A organization, that has fired and hired more head coaches in five years then they have had in decades. He choose the road less traveled, instead of getting the cushy job, he took the challenge of his life.
Where are our leaders? I’ll tell you where, somewhere else. We have no leaders, bunch of Indians looking for their chief. I know many have put a new head coach on their Christmas list. You will have to settle for a pair of socks, because he’s not going anywhere. Agree or not, the Giants do not want to be looked as revolving door franchise.
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Post by Sarcasman on Dec 6, 2021 17:49:19 GMT -5
That's not a fact, that's your opinion. It may be a fact that some fans turned on him in September just as it may be a fact that some didn't like him upon arrival and never supported him. Or that some turned on him later in the year after the losses kept piling up and some never turned on him at all and are supporting right now. It's a fact. lol, like I said opinions vary.
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 6, 2021 18:00:37 GMT -5
lol, like I said opinions vary. My memory is sharp and all the evidence needed is out there to support my fact. Your inability to to remember has no bearing.
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 6, 2021 18:05:58 GMT -5
I really couldn't care less about what these coaches say during press conferences. Judge appears to be living proof that press conference performances have no correlation to on-field performance. What I do care about is the on-field results, which clearly have not been there. And it's not just wins and losses ... Judge's team hasn't shown what he promised to bring to this team ... smart, disciplined and physical football. His primary job (other than winning obviously) was to develop our young QB. More than half-way through his second season, it appears that he has failed miserably at that job. He appears overmatched in making in-game decisions. Starting to have all of the earmarks of another disastrous hire by Mara. I hope that he can turn it around, but my doubts grow by the week. Thank you. This is perfectly said. Why fans continue to think that football people speak their mind in front of a 🎤 is beyond me. Stop believing GMs and coaches at microphones. Evaluate their performance and behaviour. There is a big difference between sugar coating his view on the team, and claiming that he was "happy" with their performance. That is such nonsense that it can't be excused. And you want to evaluate his performance?.....It sucked. Just don't tell be it didn't Joe. That's all.
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Post by solomonphoenix56 on Dec 6, 2021 18:24:14 GMT -5
He doesn't know NYC culture. He is a southern, country boy. Never knew people from Philadelphia are southern country people.. Well now you do wise guy. I made an error because I heard he was from the South and didn't double check because I don't really care. He sucks, and as far as I'm concerned he sounds like he's from the South
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Post by jaymas on Dec 6, 2021 18:40:34 GMT -5
Hey, I'm with you. I'm not high on Judge right now (don't know how anyone could be). But, personally, I don't want to fire another head coach too, it just doesn't happen in successful organizations. So to me, not half assing it, is going all in on something. Either you fire DG and Judge, and then you've got to fill two key positions (which worked out terribly for us last time), and you go very outside the Giants circle. Or, you put your eggs in the Judge basket and you get a GM with connections to him and you let them shape this team together. I understand the latter would make heads explode, but at least it commits to a strategy rather than what we've been doing since Coughlin "retired." Ossenfort and Judge are connected, Ossenfort has now worked for two successful organizations, he is not tied to the Giants of yesteryear. Give it a shot. would any good quality GM come in and keep an unsuccessful HC, I just don't know... Not sure myself. There's precedent for not getting rid of the coach or where coaches are hired first, but they aren't usually as unsuccessful as Judge has been.
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Post by Jomo on Dec 6, 2021 19:13:55 GMT -5
Communicating after a game is a tricky thing. Parcells was great because he had the stones to punch back and deliver the next week.
Most would agree that it is on field stuff that matters MOST. DG's on field "stuff" has been pathetic......and he's been pathetic with more coaches than any other team in the NFL.
Shame on JM for not knowing how to spend his money and shame on JJ for wasting JMs money on resources that have not helped in any way.
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Post by Kase1 on Dec 6, 2021 19:52:28 GMT -5
That IS the south to New Yawkas 😁😁 Ehhhhh I'd say any state that was part of the confederacy would be "the south".... There are some Redneck bumpkin hicks in Pennsyltucky though
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Post by Sarcasman on Dec 6, 2021 23:30:25 GMT -5
lol, like I said opinions vary. My memory is sharp and all the evidence needed is out there to support my fact. Your inability to to remember has no bearing. I agree; my memory has no bearing on your feelings. I'm thrilled you remember them so vividly. Memories...where'd we be without 'em?
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Post by Sarcasman on Dec 6, 2021 23:31:29 GMT -5
would any good quality GM come in and keep an unsuccessful HC, I just don't know... Not sure myself. There's precedent for not getting rid of the coach or where coaches are hires first, but they aren't usually as unsuccessful as Judge has been. A couple of teams have done it recently. I share the fear of others that it won't matter because Abrams will be the GM.
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 6, 2021 23:33:43 GMT -5
My memory is sharp and all the evidence needed is out there to support my fact. Your inability to to remember has no bearing. I agree; my memory has no bearing on your feelings. I'm thrilled you remember them so vividly. Memories...where'd we be without 'em? In your case, it’s forgetting facts.
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 6, 2021 23:34:08 GMT -5
Not sure myself. There's precedent for not getting rid of the coach or where coaches are hires first, but they aren't usually as unsuccessful as Judge has been. A couple of teams have done it recently. I share the fear of others that it won't matter because Abrams will be the GM. Honestly at this point anybody but Abrams is a win This is how far I've lost faith in this organization
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Post by Sarcasman on Dec 6, 2021 23:41:46 GMT -5
I agree; my memory has no bearing on your feelings. I'm thrilled you remember them so vividly. Memories...where'd we be without 'em? In your case, it’s forgetting facts. OK. Somehow that doesn't feel so bad if the alternative is not knowing the definition of the word.
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 6, 2021 23:51:28 GMT -5
In your case, it’s forgetting facts. OK. Somehow that doesn't feel so bad if the alternative is not knowing the definition of the word. I’m sure by 2am you’ll forget
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Post by Sarcasman on Dec 7, 2021 1:21:49 GMT -5
OK. Somehow that doesn't feel so bad if the alternative is not knowing the definition of the word. I’m sure by 2am you’ll forget For sure. I'll forget to remember to forget.
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Post by TCHOF on Dec 7, 2021 7:04:52 GMT -5
You can bullshit New Yorkers, but not for very long
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2021 7:26:42 GMT -5
Never knew people from Philadelphia are southern country people.. Well now you do wise guy. I made an error because I heard he was from the South and didn't double check because I don't really care. He sucks, and as far as I'm concerned he sounds like he's from the South I thought it was funny so thanks for that! Enjoy your time out here I'm sure you fine plenty of "wise guys" to correct your errors.. All the best to you and GO GIANTS!!
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Post by nick030567 on Dec 7, 2021 7:45:08 GMT -5
That IS the south to New Yawkas 😁😁 Ehhhhh I'd say any state that was part of the confederacy would be "the south".... There are some Redneck bumpkin hicks in Pennsyltucky though Lol Pennsyltucky, funnily, was just wondering the other day if anyone else says that aside from my uncle Shit man, there are some major rednecks in NY state lol. NJ too for sure
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Post by spaceweather on Dec 7, 2021 7:55:04 GMT -5
Yes the offense is horrible. yes they have scored a grand total of 2 TD's in the last three games. So don't tell us how how happy you are with what you saw on the field with our offense. Don't tell us that "they did a great job today" Don't tell us that "they made a lot of big plays" This is the ultimate **** you to the fans. Not only do we have to watch our team suck it up on the field, but now we have to hear about how acceptable it is to the head coach. As far as I'm concerned this attitude is an absolute firing offense. I fully expected him to go on a rant about how awful the offense is and how unacceptable it is. What we got was a complete shock to me. How low have our standards become? It's one thing to stink. It's quite another for our head coach to be happy with it. Joe has to go. Judge offers the Giants ZERO competitive advantage every Sunday as the Head Coach, he does not deserve another year.
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Post by krappdetector on Dec 7, 2021 10:14:05 GMT -5
Did you see how Belichick schooled the Bills last night? He likely moved most of heaven and part of hell to keep Josh McDaniels in the fold. I suspect that anyone he lets go without a fight likely ain't worth having.
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Post by jaymas on Dec 7, 2021 11:00:11 GMT -5
Not sure myself. There's precedent for not getting rid of the coach or where coaches are hires first, but they aren't usually as unsuccessful as Judge has been. A couple of teams have done it recently. I share the fear of others that it won't matter because Abrams will be the GM. I genuinely can't imagine a reality in which Abrams is the GM. Mostly because Mara is absolutely aware of the backlash that would receive. I'm sure Abrams was the plan if DG was successful and retired, internal promotion makes sense, just like it made sense when Accorsi retired. Now, we've got total failure, so I don't see it happening, nor do I see someone from Giants yesteryear, because of how bad this has gotten. Now will Mara and whomever he hires to consult this search hire the right guy with the above requirements? Recent history says - not a chance in hell. But, I do have optimism that anyone not connected to Giant's lore that comes with a successful pedigree will be an improvement over DG, who seems to be woefully out of touch. Now, a 39 year old head coach with a versatile background having one of the most inept offenses in the NFL over a 2 year period and not building on a lot of positive things from his QB's rookie year? That's the most concerning thing to me. I would have figured Judge's age alone would have prevented that from being the case. But alas, Mac had a boring offense and was a young guy, and his offense was only exciting when an old guy helped him build it. So, what do I know? Apparently, nothing.
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Post by Kase1 on Dec 7, 2021 11:15:52 GMT -5
Ehhhhh I'd say any state that was part of the confederacy would be "the south".... There are some Redneck bumpkin hicks in Pennsyltucky though Lol Pennsyltucky, funnily, was just wondering the other day if anyone else says that aside from my uncle Shit man, there are some major rednecks in NY state lol. NJ too for sure I never heard it til I met my in-laws, they're originally from NYC but moved to the Stroudsburg area 20yrs ago and the 1st time I heard it, I fell in love, LOL
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