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Post by Morehead State on Dec 14, 2021 22:58:39 GMT -5
In this crazy scenario, Dave is just a lackey. Do you believe that? No. As he has said he and the front office are support staff and all the coaches that have ever worked with him have confirmed it why would it be different for Judge then Shurmur or Rivera. I know you don't like the guy but this is how he try's to do things, maybe look up his Bio from the time he was a high school teacher and coach he has been about working together, He did it every where he has been especially as a GM he has given his coaches the players they want to the best of his ability. Dave picked the players in his first two years. I'm sure there was collaboration but Dave was the alpha who picked the players. I believe the hiring of Joe Judge changed all that. Dave's position was much weaker since even he said he thought he was getting fired. Joe became the new alpha in the organization. As I said...I DO think our drafts have been much better in 2020 and 2021. This is separate from my view of Judge as a head coach. But I believe the current power in the Giants organization starts with Joe Judge.
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Post by Kruunch on Dec 15, 2021 6:52:22 GMT -5
Ah thanks. I thought it sounded too blount for Judge. A real Judge quote would be, "There is a lot of positives with Glennon. I really like what I see. I am encouraged by what I see of him on the field." Judge would find a silver lining in a tsunami.
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Post by jimmieray on Dec 15, 2021 7:44:27 GMT -5
No. As he has said he and the front office are support staff and all the coaches that have ever worked with him have confirmed it why would it be different for Judge then Shurmur or Rivera. I know you don't like the guy but this is how he try's to do things, maybe look up his Bio from the time he was a high school teacher and coach he has been about working together, He did it every where he has been especially as a GM he has given his coaches the players they want to the best of his ability. Dave picked the players in his first two years. I'm sure there was collaboration but Dave was the alpha who picked the players. I believe the hiring of Joe Judge changed all that. Dave's position was much weaker since even he said he thought he was getting fired. Joe became the new alpha in the organization. As I said...I DO think our drafts have been much better in 2020 and 2021. This is separate from my view of Judge as a head coach. But I believe the current power in the Giants organization starts with Joe Judge. The trade back to gain another first rounder in next year's draft would seem to confirm this. It won't help Gettleman one bit, but greatly benefits Judge and his long term direction hopes.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 8:06:24 GMT -5
Dave picked the players in his first two years. I'm sure there was collaboration but Dave was the alpha who picked the players. I believe the hiring of Joe Judge changed all that. Dave's position was much weaker since even he said he thought he was getting fired. Joe became the new alpha in the organization. As I said...I DO think our drafts have been much better in 2020 and 2021. This is separate from my view of Judge as a head coach. But I believe the current power in the Giants organization starts with Joe Judge. The trade back to gain another first rounder in next year's draft would seem to confirm this. It won't help Gettleman one bit, but greatly benefits Judge and his long term direction hopes. Selecting Parsons or Slater were also moves that would greatly benefit the Giants long term.. They better select great players!!
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 15, 2021 8:17:52 GMT -5
No. As he has said he and the front office are support staff and all the coaches that have ever worked with him have confirmed it why would it be different for Judge then Shurmur or Rivera. I know you don't like the guy but this is how he try's to do things, maybe look up his Bio from the time he was a high school teacher and coach he has been about working together, He did it every where he has been especially as a GM he has given his coaches the players they want to the best of his ability. Dave picked the players in his first two years. I'm sure there was collaboration but Dave was the alpha who picked the players. I believe the hiring of Joe Judge changed all that. Dave's position was much weaker since even he said he thought he was getting fired. Joe became the new alpha in the organization. As I said...I DO think our drafts have been much better in 2020 and 2021. This is separate from my view of Judge as a head coach. But I believe the current power in the Giants organization starts with Joe Judge. I don't at all think anything changed, it was known Jones was the guy Shurmur wanted and really for that draft he was right. I know everyone thinks it was some big change in the way they do things, I don't Judge just got the guys he wanted and they had a lot of draft capital his first year here, Gettlemen said and Judge as well their edge players are hard to find they require a lot from them, I know everyone wants to vilify Gettlemen and he deserves it but this is how he has always operated, judge got the same treatment and he got his kind of guys so if you don't like the team I suggest you wish not only for a new GM and scouts also a new Coach.
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Post by jimmieray on Dec 15, 2021 8:21:15 GMT -5
The trade back to gain another first rounder in next year's draft would seem to confirm this. It won't help Gettleman one bit, but greatly benefits Judge and his long term direction hopes. Selecting Parsons or Slater were also moves that would greatly benefit the Giants long term.. They better select great players!! Absolutely, and those two have evidently benefited their teams immediately too. I think a first round WR should be able to establish himself even more quickly than those positions, yet Toney it seemed was held back - not just due to injury or virus tests, but his grasp of his role. Was he selected, knowing he was a project that also would not help (the slim chance of) Gettleman retaining his job?
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 15, 2021 10:02:00 GMT -5
I agree, I don't see any decent GM wanting to come in here and have his future as Giants GM depending on a proven loser, no, I see Judge being a serious problem in the GM search... There won't be a GM search. A GM will be appointed by Mara that is on board with Judge as HC. I'd bet he already has him picked out. if what you say here is true then that would mean Mara doesn't want change as much as we do, I guess his profits are all good enough to stay the course...
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 15, 2021 10:13:40 GMT -5
The trade back to gain another first rounder in next year's draft would seem to confirm this. It won't help Gettleman one bit, but greatly benefits Judge and his long term direction hopes. Selecting Parsons or Slater were also moves that would greatly benefit the Giants long term.. They better select great players!! The whole Parsons thing is a complete red herring. Parsons was a HUGE risk since he hadn't played football for over a year. The last thing anyone saw from him was his sophomore season. That was a crap shoot draft pick. Hindsight is 20/20 around here. I think we did well to deal that pick. We will have two picks, probably both in the top 7. Plus we got a very dynamic player at 20. He just needs to stay on the field. The reality is that we had two successful drafts and I expect another next year with such great draft capital. I also expect our new GM to make a huge deal for a veteran QB. That's just a hunch of course. But in the end, I suspect that Joe Judge's influence had a lot to do with the last two drafts.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 15, 2021 10:28:19 GMT -5
Selecting Parsons or Slater were also moves that would greatly benefit the Giants long term.. They better select great players!! The whole Parsons thing is a complete red herring. Parsons was a HUGE risk since he hadn't played football for over a year. The last thing anyone saw from him was his sophomore season. That was a crap shoot draft pick. Hindsight is 20/20 around here. I think we did well to deal that pick. We will have two picks, probably both in the top 7. Plus we got a very dynamic player at 20. He just needs to stay on the field. The reality is that we had two successful drafts and I expect another next year with such great draft capital. I also expect our new GM to make a huge deal for a veteran QB. That's just a hunch of course. But in the end, I suspect that Joe Judge's influence had a lot to do with the last two drafts. Agree on Parsons he was involved in some pretty bad stuff also off the field. Rick Serratella from draft bible was saying there were things not disclosed aside from raping a teammate with a broom stick that could have put him in prison, Heard some of it has come out not sure what he doesn't play here. Slater I would have been happy with if Toney gets healthy and manages to stay on the field the next 4 years we should have an impact weapon. If the new guy uncharge gets us 3 blue chippers in the first 2 rounds it will help turn this around much faster they are gonna have 2 top 10 picks and a high second. being several kids held out of last years draft this draft might have a record number of first round graded players. Most drafts have about 15 to 18 graded first rounders.
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 15, 2021 10:34:48 GMT -5
Yes we stink. Yes we’ve endured 10 years of losing. But it’s worse than you think. We probably don’t have our QB. And we are in cap hell. It’s not bad enough that Dave has been a miserable failure, he has also booby trapped our future. Remember that we had no cap room this past offseason? We didn’t. But Dave still signed two big free agents. How? He pushed their guaranteed money into future years. He banked everything on 2020. Golladay, Adore, Leo? All pushed huge guaranteed commitments to 21 and 22. So we suck AND have no cap room to improve. I believe there are only three teams in worse cap space than us for 2021. My God, he even deferred more money for Shepard next year to get under the cap right before camp… now given all of this, who in there right mind would want to take over this mess? A mess that is doomed before it starts. I’m telling all of you, the state of the New York Giants is very, very bleak. Its worse than even you think. The evaluation process for the Giants is in shambles and without fixing that nothing matters. Cap space... new GM or coach what ever. The people running the player evaluation process have shown they can't even put together 1 unit (The Oline). It's more than 10 years and they can't get that right let all the entire team. So money (all though very important) is not the main issue. John Mara, Chris Mara, Tim McDonnell and the entire player personnel and scouting dept have major problems. Without that fixed this team is screwed. Again the Oline is your tell tail sign. The evaluators can't evaluate. Yup One step forward and two steps back Rather than keep a Tomlinson (one of the few picks they hit on) and Zeitler (one of the few competent linemen they had) you lose both and now go into a draft needing to replace both rather than build around them. Next up, let Peppers walk and wait for Ryan to get injured. Oh well, let's draft a safety in 2023. They don't build anything
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 15, 2021 10:36:01 GMT -5
Does this "Giants Insider" have any credibility? lol, no the guy makes tweets like this on occassion. I wasn't sure either months ago until i read his history. His tweets do draw attention though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 11:32:44 GMT -5
Selecting Parsons or Slater were also moves that would greatly benefit the Giants long term.. They better select great players!! The whole Parsons thing is a complete red herring. Parsons was a HUGE risk since he hadn't played football for over a year. The last thing anyone saw from him was his sophomore season. That was a crap shoot draft pick. Hindsight is 20/20 around here. I think we did well to deal that pick. We will have two picks, probably both in the top 7. Plus we got a very dynamic player at 20. He just needs to stay on the field. The reality is that we had two successful drafts and I expect another next year with such great draft capital. I also expect our new GM to make a huge deal for a veteran QB. That's just a hunch of course. But in the end, I suspect that Joe Judge's influence had a lot to do with the last two drafts. They only did well if Toney actually starts playing and the extra pick is a stud player.. They passed on one highly regarded player and another who has been very dominate and was spoken of as being the best in the draft even if he didn't play the previous year..
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 11:34:27 GMT -5
Its worse than even you think. The evaluation process for the Giants is in shambles and without fixing that nothing matters. Cap space... new GM or coach what ever. The people running the player evaluation process have shown they can't even put together 1 unit (The Oline). It's more than 10 years and they can't get that right let all the entire team. So money (all though very important) is not the main issue. John Mara, Chris Mara, Tim McDonnell and the entire player personnel and scouting dept have major problems. Without that fixed this team is screwed. Again the Oline is your tell tail sign. The evaluators can't evaluate. Yup One step forward and two steps back Rather than keep a Tomlinson (one of the few picks they hit on) and Zeitler (one of the few competent linemen they had) you lose both and now go into a draft needing to replace both rather than build around them. Next up, let Peppers walk and wait for Ryan to get injured. Oh well, let's draft a safety in 2023. They don't build anything There's mock drafts having the Giants taking a safety in the 1st round this year..
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 15, 2021 11:37:32 GMT -5
Yup One step forward and two steps back Rather than keep a Tomlinson (one of the few picks they hit on) and Zeitler (one of the few competent linemen they had) you lose both and now go into a draft needing to replace both rather than build around them. Next up, let Peppers walk and wait for Ryan to get injured. Oh well, let's draft a safety in 2023. They don't build anything There's mock drafts having the Giants taking a safety in the 1st round this year.. he’s a heck of a ball player and if you’re looking at BAP, i get it. But having to go S or DT or OG out of necessity b/c those competent in place were removed is typical these years. Let’s maintain the status quo w/o building anything.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 11:42:31 GMT -5
There's mock drafts having the Giants taking a safety in the 1st round this year.. he’s a heck of a ball player and if you’re looking at BAP, i get it. But having to go S or DT or OG out of necessity b/c those competent in place were removed is typical these years. Let’s maintain the status quo w/o building anything. well I'm hoping they go oline with one of the choices even center if he really is the real deal like they are claiming..
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 15, 2021 12:04:01 GMT -5
he’s a heck of a ball player and if you’re looking at BAP, i get it. But having to go S or DT or OG out of necessity b/c those competent in place were removed is typical these years. Let’s maintain the status quo w/o building anything. well I'm hoping they go oline with one of the choices even center if he really is the real deal like they are claiming.. Can't go wrong but you can't go right either imo. The team has GAP issues at both B and a C/D. Putting one body at the A in hopes he solidifies one B isn't ideal imo. Not to mention, the career expectancy of a center is shorter than other linemen. And again, he's not interchangeable. Put him on this OL did he solve anything? Not much
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Post by Martin on Dec 15, 2021 12:18:52 GMT -5
There's mock drafts having the Giants taking a safety in the 1st round this year.. he’s a heck of a ball player and if you’re looking at BAP, i get it. But having to go S or DT or OG out of necessity b/c those competent in place were removed is typical these years. Let’s maintain the status quo w/o building anything. ..... this is where the biggest problem lies. From year to year there is no building process as they keep digging holes and putting explosives in them. Sad.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 12:20:00 GMT -5
well I'm hoping they go oline with one of the choices even center if he really is the real deal like they are claiming.. Can't go wrong but you can't go right either imo. The team has GAP issues at both B and a C/D. Putting one body at the A in hopes he solidifies one B isn't ideal imo. Not to mention, the career expectancy of a center is shorter than other linemen. And again, he's not interchangeable. Put him on this OL did he solve anything? Not much You are correct one player isn't going to change the oline much which is why I expect them to draft 3 or 4 more with all the picks they have.. Not loading up on many olineman this off season would be stupid and we already have gone through that last season to give them an example why they need too..
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Post by Parademon1 on Dec 15, 2021 12:20:34 GMT -5
I am in my mid 50s and have been luck enough to see all 4 SBs and revel in them to boot!! With that said I am relegated to the fact that I may never see another NYG SB victory or even an NFC Championship. Jets have wait 52 years!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look where they are at. 5 SBs, I know we all like to block out that 2000 SB but the fact is that we have been to 5 SBs in the past 35yrs. Browns, Lions, Texans & Jags fans would kill to be in our shoes & seen their teams go to 5 SBs. Vikes & Bills fans are 0-4, they'd kill to have won just 1 of those 4. We're going thru dark times right now but I have faith that we'll turn it around within the next 2 yrs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 12:23:08 GMT -5
I am in my mid 50s and have been luck enough to see all 4 SBs and revel in them to boot!! With that said I am relegated to the fact that I may never see another NYG SB victory or even an NFC Championship. Jets have wait 52 years!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look where they are at. 5 SBs, I know we all like to block out that 2000 SB but the fact is that we have been to 5 SBs in the past 35yrs. Browns, Lions, Texans & Jags fans would kill to be in our shoes & seen their teams go to 5 SBs. Vikes & Bills fans are 0-4, they'd kill to have won just 1 of those 4. We're going thru dark times right now but I have faith that we'll turn it around within the next 2 yrs.No idea how you can have faith this will get turned around in 2 years.. I hope you're correct!!
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Post by Kruunch on Dec 15, 2021 12:30:55 GMT -5
I am in my mid 50s and have been luck enough to see all 4 SBs and revel in them to boot!! With that said I am relegated to the fact that I may never see another NYG SB victory or even an NFC Championship. Jets have wait 52 years!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look where they are at. 5 SBs, I know we all like to block out that 2000 SB but the fact is that we have been to 5 SBs in the past 35yrs. Browns, Lions, Texans & Jags fans would kill to be in our shoes & seen their teams go to 5 SBs. Vikes & Bills fans are 0-4, they'd kill to have won just 1 of those 4. We're going thru dark times right now but I have faith that we'll turn it around within the next 2 yrs. I’ve heard this garbage for years now. This franchise has lost any shred of credibility a long time ago. You know you hit rock bottom when you have to compare us to the drecks of the league.
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Post by Jomo on Dec 15, 2021 12:40:44 GMT -5
Have we heard anything from Mara, the leader of this orgaanzation,in the past month?
Bad ceos hide when things get tough.
On top of all his other failings he's also a coward I guess.
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Post by Parademon1 on Dec 15, 2021 12:41:33 GMT -5
5 SBs, I know we all like to block out that 2000 SB but the fact is that we have been to 5 SBs in the past 35yrs. Browns, Lions, Texans & Jags fans would kill to be in our shoes & seen their teams go to 5 SBs. Vikes & Bills fans are 0-4, they'd kill to have won just 1 of those 4. We're going thru dark times right now but I have faith that we'll turn it around within the next 2 yrs.No idea how you can have faith this will get turned around in 2 years.. I hope you're correct!! 22' draft has to yield at minimum, 3-4 quality starters on the OL/DL, that will help fix the trenches, hopefully the injury bug is minimal next yr on our WR corps, Barkley improves behind a better line as does DJ, we win 8-9 games next yr, have a good draft in 23' & start winning 10-11 games that yr. Dallas was 1-15 in Jimmy's 1st yr, then the Vikes gifted them all those draft picks for Herschel Walker, & they win the SB 3yrs later. We have to fix the trenches in 22'-23', the game is always won or lost in the trenches, always has, always will. Football is akin to war, the army that can impose their will during the battles, will win the war. I can't remember the last time our OL or DL imposed their will on a good opponent & beat them by 14+.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 12:45:30 GMT -5
No idea how you can have faith this will get turned around in 2 years.. I hope you're correct!! 22' draft has to yield at minimum, 3-4 quality starters on the OL/DL, that will help fix the trenches, hopefully the injury bug is minimal next yr on our WR corps, Barkley improves behind a better line as does DJ, we win 8-9 games next yr, have a good draft in 23' & start winning 10-11 games that yr. Dallas was 1-15 in Jimmy's 1st yr, then the Vikes gifted them all those draft picks for Herschel Walker, & they win the SB 3yrs later. We have to fix the trenches in 22'-23', the game is always won or lost in the trenches, always has, always will. Football is akin to war, the army that can impose their will during the battles, will win the war. I can't remember the last time our OL or DL imposed their will on a good opponent & beat them by 14+. How has that been going for this team these past 10 years? There drafts have been bad and some of the FA signings give you a year before they stop trying.. Thanks for the response but to be confident this will happen is a big reach..
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 15, 2021 12:49:09 GMT -5
Selecting Parsons or Slater were also moves that would greatly benefit the Giants long term.. They better select great players!! The whole Parsons thing is a complete red herring. Parsons was a HUGE risk since he hadn't played football for over a year. The last thing anyone saw from him was his sophomore season. That was a crap shoot draft pick. Hindsight is 20/20 around here. I think we did well to deal that pick. We will have two picks, probably both in the top 7. Plus we got a very dynamic player at 20. He just needs to stay on the field. The reality is that we had two successful drafts and I expect another next year with such great draft capital. I also expect our new GM to make a huge deal for a veteran QB. That's just a hunch of course. But in the end, I suspect that Joe Judge's influence had a lot to do with the last two drafts. Agree with everything but making a panic move for a vet qb because we can't have a huge draft haul when all the important assets are thrown away in said move that would be Craig Morton 2.0...
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 15, 2021 14:25:24 GMT -5
The whole Parsons thing is a complete red herring. Parsons was a HUGE risk since he hadn't played football for over a year. The last thing anyone saw from him was his sophomore season. That was a crap shoot draft pick. Hindsight is 20/20 around here. I think we did well to deal that pick. We will have two picks, probably both in the top 7. Plus we got a very dynamic player at 20. He just needs to stay on the field. The reality is that we had two successful drafts and I expect another next year with such great draft capital. I also expect our new GM to make a huge deal for a veteran QB. That's just a hunch of course. But in the end, I suspect that Joe Judge's influence had a lot to do with the last two drafts. Agree with everything but making a panic move for a vet qb because we can't have a huge draft haul when all the important assets are thrown away in said move that would be Craig Morton 2.0... I was thinking more of a Derek Carr kind of guy. That would be akin to our picking up Kerry Collins which was one of the best moves this team has ever made.
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Post by GameTime on Dec 15, 2021 14:42:03 GMT -5
I am in my mid 50s and have been luck enough to see all 4 SBs and revel in them to boot!! With that said I am relegated to the fact that I may never see another NYG SB victory or even an NFC Championship. Jets have wait 52 years!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look where they are at. 5 SBs, I know we all like to block out that 2000 SB but the fact is that we have been to 5 SBs in the past 35yrs. Browns, Lions, Texans & Jags fans would kill to be in our shoes & seen their teams go to 5 SBs. Vikes & Bills fans are 0-4, they'd kill to have won just 1 of those 4. We're going thru dark times right now but I have faith that we'll turn it around within the next 2 yrs. yes...you are of course correct. I was thinking of wins. Cant imagine being a Vikes or especially a Bills fan with the consecutive appearances and losses. I hope we do. I have been thinking and saying that for 1o years now. Jaded?....maybe. In the past I had hope they would be turning it around. Now I see no reason why a turn around can even happen. I have no faith in the coach, ownership and what hope I had in Jones is pretty much gone
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Post by nick030567 on Dec 15, 2021 19:03:22 GMT -5
Agree with everything but making a panic move for a vet qb because we can't have a huge draft haul when all the important assets are thrown away in said move that would be Craig Morton 2.0... I was thinking more of a Derek Carr kind of guy. That would be akin to our picking up Kerry Collins which was one of the best moves this team has ever made. I think Carr is a great QB. And technically much more proven than Collins was. Look at Kerry's numbers pre-2000. I believe they're pretty awful if I remember. But I also know stats don't always provide the whole context of a players performance. Collins was obviously great for the Giants.
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 15, 2021 19:23:25 GMT -5
I was thinking more of a Derek Carr kind of guy. That would be akin to our picking up Kerry Collins which was one of the best moves this team has ever made. I think Carr is a great QB. And technically much more proven than Collins was. Look at Kerry's numbers pre-2000. I believe they're pretty awful if I remember. But I also know stats don't always provide the whole context of a players performance. Collins was obviously great for the Giants. Collins had a sever alcohol issue, prior to our signing him, that contributed a ton to his poor play (and the release from Carolina). He had rehabbed before coming to the Giants, and did not outwardly have that problem reemerge during his career.
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Post by PennState1 on Dec 15, 2021 19:26:34 GMT -5
Yes we stink. Yes we’ve endured 10 years of losing. But it’s worse than you think. We probably don’t have our QB. And we are in cap hell. It’s not bad enough that Dave has been a miserable failure, he has also booby trapped our future. Remember that we had no cap room this past offseason? We didn’t. But Dave still signed two big free agents. How? He pushed their guaranteed money into future years. He banked everything on 2020. Golladay, Adore, Leo? All pushed huge guaranteed commitments to 21 and 22. So we suck AND have no cap room to improve. I believe there are only three teams in worse cap space than us for 2021. My God, he even deferred more money for Shepard next year to get under the cap right before camp… now given all of this, who in there right mind would want to take over this mess? A mess that is doomed before it starts. I’m telling all of you, the state of the New York Giants is very, very bleak. We literally have become the Cleveland Browns
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