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Post by Miked1958 on Dec 16, 2021 11:50:26 GMT -5
...and here I thought the Knicks would be some salvation from this hell Good grief ! nope. They started out with promise looking great at 5-1. Then beating good teams in rd but losing to terrible teams ar MSG which was a red flag. Now they are just terrible losing to everyone. Thought they were much improved over last yr at first impression so i figured they'd at least get into 2nd round. They are worse then last yrs team Rangers have been a pleasant surprise up until recent stretch of losing 3 of 4 triggered by starting a rookie goalie who got beat 7-3. Screwed up their chemistry of winning 7 in a row and 11 of 12 tying them for best record in NHL. Momentum is a funny thing. They did get a win last night But yanks, mets, islanders, jets, devils all stink. Nets better but still wont win it all
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 12:02:08 GMT -5
I was thinking more of a Derek Carr kind of guy. That would be akin to our picking up Kerry Collins which was one of the best moves this team has ever made. I think Carr is a great QB. And technically much more proven than Collins was. Look at Kerry's numbers pre-2000. I believe they're pretty awful if I remember. But I also know stats don't always provide the whole context of a players performance. Collins was obviously great for the Giants. Carr has been bench so the Giants might be able to acquire him to continue to help this team suck..
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 16, 2021 15:30:41 GMT -5
I think Carr is a great QB. And technically much more proven than Collins was. Look at Kerry's numbers pre-2000. I believe they're pretty awful if I remember. But I also know stats don't always provide the whole context of a players performance. Collins was obviously great for the Giants. Collins had a sever alcohol issue, prior to our signing him, that contributed a ton to his poor play (and the release from Carolina). He had rehabbed before coming to the Giants, and did not outwardly have that problem reemerge during his career. He actually played for the Saints the season before and played well enough to show the league he was still a legit NFL QB.
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 16, 2021 15:39:08 GMT -5
Collins had a sever alcohol issue, prior to our signing him, that contributed a ton to his poor play (and the release from Carolina). He had rehabbed before coming to the Giants, and did not outwardly have that problem reemerge during his career. He actually played for the Saints the season before and played well enough to show the league he was still a legit NFL QB. right, I forgot about that.
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 16, 2021 16:16:27 GMT -5
No. As he has said he and the front office are support staff and all the coaches that have ever worked with him have confirmed it why would it be different for Judge then Shurmur or Rivera. I know you don't like the guy but this is how he try's to do things, maybe look up his Bio from the time he was a high school teacher and coach he has been about working together, He did it every where he has been especially as a GM he has given his coaches the players they want to the best of his ability. Dave picked the players in his first two years. I'm sure there was collaboration but Dave was the alpha who picked the players. I believe the hiring of Joe Judge changed all that. Dave's position was much weaker since even he said he thought he was getting fired. Joe became the new alpha in the organization. As I said...I DO think our drafts have been much better in 2020 and 2021. This is separate from my view of Judge as a head coach. But I believe the current power in the Giants organization starts with Joe Judge. if as you say Judge is the new alpha then what does it take to become an alpha and what the heck has Judge done to become one...
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 16, 2021 16:35:08 GMT -5
Dave picked the players in his first two years. I'm sure there was collaboration but Dave was the alpha who picked the players. I believe the hiring of Joe Judge changed all that. Dave's position was much weaker since even he said he thought he was getting fired. Joe became the new alpha in the organization. As I said...I DO think our drafts have been much better in 2020 and 2021. This is separate from my view of Judge as a head coach. But I believe the current power in the Giants organization starts with Joe Judge. if as you say Judge is the new alpha then what does it take to become an alpha and what the heck has Judge done to become one... When I use the term "alpha" I am describing my impressions of their personality.
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 16, 2021 16:39:20 GMT -5
if as you say Judge is the new alpha then what does it take to become an alpha and what the heck has Judge done to become one... When I use the term "alpha" I am describing my impressions of their personality. Judge does seem to have a strong personality but IMO he still has a looong way to go to impress me as a HC, I hope he does it but for right now he needs to do less talking to the media and more showing at game time...
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 16, 2021 17:24:31 GMT -5
When I use the term "alpha" I am describing my impressions of their personality. Judge does seem to have a strong personality but IMO he still has a looong way to go to impress me as a HC, I hope he does it but for right now he needs to do less talking to the media and more showing at game time... Speaking for myself, he has done nothing to impress me. I am very discouraged and disappointed in him as the Giants HC.
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 16, 2021 17:57:17 GMT -5
Judge does seem to have a strong personality but IMO he still has a looong way to go to impress me as a HC, I hope he does it but for right now he needs to do less talking to the media and more showing at game time... Speaking for myself, he has done nothing to impress me. I am very discouraged and disappointed in him as the Giants HC. I think most of us are. While I don't personally think he has shown enough to continue, I really think that the owners want him to succeed, and will give him next season to show more.
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Post by McCherry on Dec 16, 2021 18:22:47 GMT -5
Speaking for myself, he has done nothing to impress me. I am very discouraged and disappointed in him as the Giants HC. I think most of us are. While I don't personally think he has shown enough to continue, I really think that the owners want him to succeed, and will give him next season to show more.I believe the owners wanted to bring him back, but they didn't imagine losing the last 6 games of the season. Any GM candidate looking for their first shot at running a team is not going to put their hard work and reputation on the line for a 10-23 head coach who just lost the final 6 games of the season. That is certain. Which limits the choices to candidates who are only willing to bend to ownership demands of having a HC and QB forced upon them. Which would mean nothing has changed.
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Post by Jomo on Dec 16, 2021 19:26:58 GMT -5
Agree with everything but making a panic move for a vet qb because we can't have a huge draft haul when all the important assets are thrown away in said move that would be Craig Morton 2.0... I was thinking more of a Derek Carr kind of guy. That would be akin to our picking up Kerry Collins which was one of the best moves this team has ever made. LOL, not at your statement but at KC. Strong arm, accurate arm but a guy who could only throw on rhythm. Dazed and confused, glassy eyes in the Super Bowl. How many times did Fassel roll him out to the right only to throw an incompletion? I believe that if you counted his completion percentage on "roll right" it would be <15%.
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 16, 2021 19:39:13 GMT -5
I think most of us are. While I don't personally think he has shown enough to continue, I really think that the owners want him to succeed, and will give him next season to show more.I believe the owners wanted to bring him back, but they didn't imagine losing the last 6 games of the season. Any GM candidate looking for their first shot at running a team is not going to put their hard work and reputation on the line for a 10-23 head coach who just lost the final 6 games of the season. That is certain. Which limits the choices to candidates who are only willing to bend to ownership demands of having a HC and QB forced upon them. Which would mean nothing has changed. Personally, I am in total agreement, but I just don't think Mara/Tisch are thinking along those line. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 16, 2021 20:34:49 GMT -5
I was thinking more of a Derek Carr kind of guy. That would be akin to our picking up Kerry Collins which was one of the best moves this team has ever made. LOL, not at your statement but at KC. Strong arm, accurate arm but a guy who could only throw on rhythm. Dazed and confused, glassy eyes in the Super Bowl. How many times did Fassel roll him out to the right only to throw an incompletion? I believe that if you counted his completion percentage on "roll right" it would be <15%. My wife and I had a couple dinners with Lomas Brown several years ago (He met my wife on a flight from Detroit to Hartford) He was the LT for the Giants in 2000. He said when they went back to the huddle after Kerry took his first big hit in the SB, his eyes were as big as saucers. He also said they loved the guy.
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 16, 2021 20:36:47 GMT -5
LOL, not at your statement but at KC. Strong arm, accurate arm but a guy who could only throw on rhythm. Dazed and confused, glassy eyes in the Super Bowl. How many times did Fassel roll him out to the right only to throw an incompletion? I believe that if you counted his completion percentage on "roll right" it would be <15%. My wife and I had a couple dinners with Lomas Brown several years ago (He met my wife on a flight from Detroit to Hartford) He was the LT for the Giants in 2000. He said when they went back to the huddle after Kerry took his first big hit in the SB, his eyes were as big as saucers. He also said they loved the guy. Lomas was an excellent FA signing back then, really like him on the team.
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 16, 2021 21:01:58 GMT -5
My wife and I had a couple dinners with Lomas Brown several years ago (He met my wife on a flight from Detroit to Hartford) He was the LT for the Giants in 2000. He said when they went back to the huddle after Kerry took his first big hit in the SB, his eyes were as big as saucers. He also said they loved the guy. Lomas was an excellent FA signing back then, really like him on the team. You can't imagine how sweet a guy he is. (Yes that's the word)
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Post by krappdetector on Dec 17, 2021 0:35:56 GMT -5
IMO Joe Judge showed his direct influence in the last draft when we traded back very un-Getty-like. We now posess the third richest capital in the most important draft in many years. How this capital is used, and whether Judge evolves into a better HC - as I believe he will - shall determine the success of the team and the coaches going forward. Consider this: Had he been HC in 2018-19 would Barkley be on the team today?.. or Daniel Jones be our QB? And who else might be here instead?
Oremus.
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 17, 2021 1:13:33 GMT -5
IMO Joe Judge showed his direct influence in the last draft when we traded back very un-Getty-like. We now posess the third richest capital in the most important draft in many years.How this capital is used, and whether Judge evolves into a better HC - as I believe he will - shall determine the success of the team and the coaches going forward. Consider this: Had he been HC in 2018-19 would Barkley be on the team today?.. or Daniel Jones be our QB? And who else might be here instead? Oremus. Would we have had to pay premium for a WR because the position was all but neglected including trading away Odell? Toney is the kind of WR he wants,which is why it seems we were targeting Waddle over Smith as well..
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Post by DandyDon on Dec 17, 2021 1:14:57 GMT -5
I was thinking more of a Derek Carr kind of guy. That would be akin to our picking up Kerry Collins which was one of the best moves this team has ever made. I think Carr is a great QB. And technically much more proven than Collins was. Look at Kerry's numbers pre-2000. I believe they're pretty awful if I remember. But I also know stats don't always provide the whole context of a players performance. Collins was obviously great for the Giants. Carr is a great QB? Now I've heard everything...
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Post by nick030567 on Dec 17, 2021 8:19:19 GMT -5
I think Carr is a great QB. And technically much more proven than Collins was. Look at Kerry's numbers pre-2000. I believe they're pretty awful if I remember. But I also know stats don't always provide the whole context of a players performance. Collins was obviously great for the Giants. Carr is a great QB? Now I've heard everything... Yeah he's had some very good seasons. Didn't he even have an MVP caliber season a few years back? Kerry Collins certainly wasn't a "GREAT" QB either if we're being literal, my mistake on word usage. They're both QBs you can win with. But I don't follow Carr religiously. I've seen he can make some great plays. And he has done it on a consistent basis in the past. He certainly is by far the best QB the raiders have had in a LOOOOOOOONG time As long as he's not going the route of Can Newtown I wouldn't write the guy off yet
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 17, 2021 10:27:09 GMT -5
Carr is a great QB? Now I've heard everything... Yeah he's had some very good seasons. Didn't he even have an MVP caliber season a few years back? Kerry Collins certainly wasn't a "GREAT" QB either if we're being literal, my mistake on word usage. They're both QBs you can win with. But I don't follow Carr religiously. I've seen he can make some great plays. And he has done it on a consistent basis in the past. He certainly is by far the best QB the raiders have had in a LOOOOOOOONG time As long as he's not going the route of Can Newtown I wouldn't write the guy off yet Carr is a legit NFL QB that can make all the throws and is a very good leader. Derek Carr gets a bad rap sometimes but he could be a top 10 QB in the right place. Right now, he's is a very dysfunctional place.
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 17, 2021 10:36:21 GMT -5
Rivera put out straight forward that DG got them the players they wanted, they would give him list from the scouts he would watch the film and tell them his and his coaches choices, doesn't get much more collaborative then that, and Shirmur seemed to confirm it. In this crazy scenario, Dave is just a lackey. Do you believe that? a lackey to who? not Judge I hope...IMO both of them have underachieved and need to move on..
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Post by shocknaweny on Dec 17, 2021 10:54:35 GMT -5
be in a mess another five years at least....maybe ten if Mara hires a GM from within the organization
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 17, 2021 10:56:38 GMT -5
In this crazy scenario, Dave is just a lackey. Do you believe that? a lackey to who? not Judge I hope...IMO both of them have underachieved and need to move on.. I was questioning it myself.
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Post by ratbastich on Dec 17, 2021 15:37:52 GMT -5
My wife and I had a couple dinners with Lomas Brown several years ago (He met my wife on a flight from Detroit to Hartford) He was the LT for the Giants in 2000. He said when they went back to the huddle after Kerry took his first big hit in the SB, his eyes were as big as saucers. He also said they loved the guy. Lomas was an excellent FA signing back then, really like him on the team. When they signed Lomas we had been going through an OL drought for a bit...not like now...but it was pretty tough then. As for Kerry Collins I liked him, but he did shit the bed when he was in the SB. Then again, the Ravens' defense was dominant and who would've thought Trent Dilfer would go from being a game managing type quarterback to just lighting them up? I remember after he threw that...I think 35 yard TD to Stokely...I was like....ahhh hell, this is going to be bad.
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 17, 2021 16:19:52 GMT -5
Lomas was an excellent FA signing back then, really like him on the team. When they signed Lomas we had been going through an OL drought for a bit...not like now...but it was pretty tough then. As for Kerry Collins I liked him, but he did shit the bed when he was in the SB. Then again, the Ravens' defense was dominant and who would've thought Trent Dilfer would go from being a game managing type quarterback to just lighting them up? I remember after he threw that...I think 35 yard TD to Stokely...I was like....ahhh hell, this is going to be bad. That 2000 O line was a finesse line. They were no match for the physicality of the Ravens defense. Kerry Collins had nothing to do with that loss. We were an overachieving team who had a glorious win in the NFC championship game. But we were not in the Ravens league. I think that was a great year and that's definitely one of my favorite Giants teams.
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Post by Delicreep on Dec 17, 2021 18:12:50 GMT -5
be in a mess another five years at least....maybe ten if Mara hires a GM from within the organization There very well may have been guys in the FO telling Dave he was wrong at every turn, but I feel like Mara is hard wired to pick a guy who doesn't rock the boat. A "go along" guy will never right this ship.
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 18, 2021 2:03:07 GMT -5
When they signed Lomas we had been going through an OL drought for a bit...not like now...but it was pretty tough then. As for Kerry Collins I liked him, but he did shit the bed when he was in the SB. Then again, the Ravens' defense was dominant and who would've thought Trent Dilfer would go from being a game managing type quarterback to just lighting them up? I remember after he threw that...I think 35 yard TD to Stokely...I was like....ahhh hell, this is going to be bad. That 2000 O line was a finesse line. They were no match for the physicality of the Ravens defense. Kerry Collins had nothing to do with that loss. We were an overachieving team who had a glorious win in the NFC championship game. But we were not in the Ravens league. I think that was a great year and that's definitely one of my favorite Giants teams. I actually think we beat the Raiders if they got in...(another finesse type team )
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 18, 2021 2:03:43 GMT -5
be in a mess another five years at least....maybe ten if Mara hires a GM from within the organization There very well may have been guys in the FO telling Dave he was wrong at every turn, but I feel like Mara is hard wired to pick a guy who doesn't rock the boat. A "go along" guy will never right this ship. That would be Abrams
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