|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 25, 2022 13:17:00 GMT -5
If they need Jones as a place holder until they find the right QB than I'm okay with it. Barkley can stay as long as they don't give him big dollars or if trading him is good for the team than I can pack his bags for him and drive him to the airport. Im not sure how much value Barkley has as far as draft picks. Maybe a 3rd or 4th at best IMO. Last year of his contract and always hurt.
|
|
|
Post by Martin on Jan 25, 2022 13:40:11 GMT -5
If they need Jones as a place holder until they find the right QB than I'm okay with it. Barkley can stay as long as they don't give him big dollars or if trading him is good for the team than I can pack his bags for him and drive him to the airport. Im not sure how much value Barkley has as far as draft picks. Maybe a 3rd or 4th at best IMO. Last year of his contract and always hurt. Which then leads us back to not over paying him. If teams don't see much value in him than don't pay him much. Use the money for Oline or elsewhere.
|
|
|
Post by Nick6475 on Jan 25, 2022 14:18:07 GMT -5
Bills last two RBs were drafted in the 3rd round. They understand positional value, I hope he can ship Barkley out for the best draft return. Barkley's trade value is not as high as some would hope. Strictly based on the fact he's in the last year of his contract. So who ever trades for him is presumable on the hook to extend him. And the fact that he has not been healthy or productive the last two years.
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Jan 25, 2022 16:14:32 GMT -5
Barkley's trade value is not as high as some would hope. Strictly based on the fact he's in the last year of his contract. So who ever trades for him is presumable on the hook to extend him. And the fact that he has not been healthy or productive the last two years. If Buffalo can get starting RBs in the third round, why would another team even give us a 3rd for an often-injured guy with very marginal resume this past year. I would be stunned if we get a #3 for him except on a performance based deal. But, who knows, DG isn't the only bumbling GM in the NFL.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 26, 2022 11:25:13 GMT -5
The Schoen Plane!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2022 11:52:09 GMT -5
And the fact that he has not been healthy or productive the last two years. If Buffalo can get starting RBs in the third round, why would another team even give us a 3rd for an often-injured guy with very marginal resume this past year. I would be stunned if we get a #3 for him except on a performance based deal. But, who knows, DG isn't the only bumbling GM in the NFL. They will get a draft pick if when he leaves as a FA next season.. What that will be I believe is based off some metrics that I'm not familiar with..
|
|
|
Post by allnygin on Jan 26, 2022 11:57:43 GMT -5
They held on to Tyrod Taylor knowing he wasn't the long term answer until they made that move for Allen Exactly. That makes sense to me. I don’t know if a lot of fans agree. at this point in time you agree with giving jones an extension or another contract going into year 5.. bc that's whats going to have to happen after this season.. This isn't year two of his rookie deal.. its the last year, things are more complicated than just saying "oh yeah, lets keep DJ for a few years while we figure him and this QB position out" Dave gettlemen wasted that time.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 26, 2022 12:02:37 GMT -5
Schoen just said that Kevin Abrams is still there... Sounds like he is being retained.
"And we got to look at the film...." lol Oh lord.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 26, 2022 12:14:54 GMT -5
Sounds like he might retain quite a bit from his presser. Man, I hope not. Said he is going to evaluate the staff and doesn't expect "wholesale changes". That it isnt always the people, but could just have been the process.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 26, 2022 13:19:38 GMT -5
Mara is a billionaire with a private jet right?
|
|
|
Post by cdngfan on Jan 26, 2022 13:56:57 GMT -5
Exactly. That makes sense to me. I don’t know if a lot of fans agree. at this point in time you agree with giving jones an extension or another contract going into year 5.. bc that's whats going to have to happen after this season.. This isn't year two of his rookie deal.. its the last year, things are more complicated than just saying "oh yeah, lets keep DJ for a few years while we figure him and this QB position out" Dave gettlemen wasted that time. I don’t agree with extending Jones today. I think if Schoen sees rays of light and no immediate replacement that he’s sure will be an improvement, I think he’ll keep Jones as long as it takes without giving him a multi year commitment so he can maintain the flexibility to jump on a draft pick or FA. As soon as Schoen picks a QB, his success will be tied to that QB. I don’t think he’ll choose the cream of the shit because DJ isn’t the guy. He’ll wait until he finds someone he’s willing to risk his employment on. Because that’s what he’s doing. If SB and DJ were top 10 at their positions, Getty is still our GM and no one is debating reaching for DJ or drafting an HB at #2. Making the right call trumps almost all criticism.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 26, 2022 14:20:53 GMT -5
at this point in time you agree with giving jones an extension or another contract going into year 5.. bc that's whats going to have to happen after this season.. This isn't year two of his rookie deal.. its the last year, things are more complicated than just saying "oh yeah, lets keep DJ for a few years while we figure him and this QB position out" Dave gettlemen wasted that time. I don’t agree with extending Jones today. I think if Schoen sees rays of light and no immediate replacement that he’s sure will be an improvement, I think he’ll keep Jones as long as it takes without giving him a multi year commitment so he can maintain the flexibility to jump on a draft pick or FA. As soon as Schoen picks a QB, his success will be tied to that QB. I don’t think he’ll choose the cream of the shit because DJ isn’t the guy. He’ll wait until he finds someone he’s willing to risk his employment on. Because that’s what he’s doing. If SB and DJ were top 10 at their positions, Getty is still our GM and no one is debating reaching for DJ or drafting an HB at #2. Making the right call trumps almost all criticism. Absolutely
|
|
|
Post by PennState1 on Jan 27, 2022 10:49:28 GMT -5
In my eyes Beane is an excellent GM. It says ALOT to me that he worked with him early in their careers then Schoen left for Miami. As soon as Beane got his shot to be in the "big chair" he went out and got him again. Thats a big time endorsement. Huge endorsement
|
|
Eazy E
Special Teams
Posts: 1,498
|
Post by Eazy E on Jan 30, 2022 9:55:51 GMT -5
I agree , i dont think the GM will stake his entire career on DJ. He has his eye on something.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Jan 30, 2022 10:19:02 GMT -5
I agree , i dont think the GM will stake his entire career on DJ. He has his eye on something. the GM is nad the HC are staking their careers on being able to get th NYGs back to being competetive for the division on a years basis. They will not let any player get in the way of that. They are too young in the NFL careers to jeopardize themselves . ts already a huge gamble even accepting the jobs to begin with
|
|
giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,904
|
Post by giantsalmon on Jan 30, 2022 12:36:35 GMT -5
I agree , i dont think the GM will stake his entire career on DJ. He has his eye on something. the GM is nad the HC are staking their careers on being able to get th NYGs back to being competetive for the division on a years basis. They will not let any player get in the way of that. They are too young in the NFL careers to jeopardize themselves . ts already a huge gamble even accepting the jobs to begin with Both Schoen and Daboll are good talent evaluators if they are anything. I'm a DJ believer, admittedly BECAUSE of his heart and guts that get him into jams. They had to deal with this with Allen his first couple years as well. He fumbled and got injured too. I trust these two , if they stake their reputations on trying to become respectable with him I'm fine with that, as we know there's lots of issues elsewhere. If they decide to move on then I will respect their assessment and thats where it has to end.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Jan 30, 2022 12:59:58 GMT -5
the GM is nad the HC are staking their careers on being able to get th NYGs back to being competetive for the division on a years basis. They will not let any player get in the way of that. They are too young in the NFL careers to jeopardize themselves . ts already a huge gamble even accepting the jobs to begin with Both Schoen and Daboll are good talent evaluators if they are anything. I'm a DJ believer, admittedly BECAUSE of his heart and guts that get him into jams. They had to deal with this with Allen his first couple years as well. He fumbled and got injured too. I trust these two , if they stake their reputations on trying to become respectable with him I'm fine with that, as we know there's lots of issues elsewhere. If they decide to move on then I will respect their assessment and thats where it has to end. my biggest issue with Jones is that his two main flaws are not "fixable" but just who he is. His pocket management is poor and he doesn't go through his reads well enough with consistency. He will get his shot with this GM and HC but they will be looking to upgrade too. I dont see them going into this season 100% on JONES
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Jan 30, 2022 13:09:37 GMT -5
Both Schoen and Daboll are good talent evaluators if they are anything. I'm a DJ believer, admittedly BECAUSE of his heart and guts that get him into jams. They had to deal with this with Allen his first couple years as well. He fumbled and got injured too. I trust these two , if they stake their reputations on trying to become respectable with him I'm fine with that, as we know there's lots of issues elsewhere. If they decide to move on then I will respect their assessment and thats where it has to end. my biggest issue with Jones is that his two main flaws are not "fixable" but just who he is. His pocket management is poor and he doesn't go through his reads well enough with consistency. He will get his shot with this GM and HC but they will be looking to upgrade too. I dont see them going into this season 100% on JONESIf Mitch Trubisky is the backup, they will.
|
|
giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,904
|
Post by giantsalmon on Jan 30, 2022 13:54:19 GMT -5
Both Schoen and Daboll are good talent evaluators if they are anything. I'm a DJ believer, admittedly BECAUSE of his heart and guts that get him into jams. They had to deal with this with Allen his first couple years as well. He fumbled and got injured too. I trust these two , if they stake their reputations on trying to become respectable with him I'm fine with that, as we know there's lots of issues elsewhere. If they decide to move on then I will respect their assessment and thats where it has to end. my biggest issue with Jones is that his two main flaws are not "fixable" but just who he is. His pocket management is poor and he doesn't go through his reads well enough with consistency. He will get his shot with this GM and HC but they will be looking to upgrade too. I dont see them going into this season 100% on JONES There are many astute football observers on this board, some I would say are experts. I feel I can speak on this one subject more than usual because I wanted a QB in the 2018 draft, and more importantly who I did NOT want. I did homework on the 2018 QB class and Josh Allen jumped out at me. Not just on the field, but how he conducted himself on the bench with his untalented teammates and his coaches. He was perfect off field and no doubt his road to the 1st round was a very rough one--leading to that coveted "chip on the shoulder". I wanted NYG to draft him--they had him in for 5 days. Ultimately Shurmur and Gettleman effed up royally. BUT, as many have said, perhaps NYG would have ruined him. I also liked Mayfield but did not think he fit NYG style coming off Eli. I was adamantly opposed to Darnold and Rosen, who I felt NYG were truly interested in. Honestly it was a combination of relief and disappointment(when they drafted Saquon), as it meant all the rumors about committed to win with Eli were true. Fast forward to Josh Allen being drafted by Buffalo. I have one sibling, a younger brother who grew up a Bills fan. He is astute on the Pro game as anyone on this board. He suffered an accident in '99 that left him a paraplegic. Spectator sports and his fandom have become extra important to him. He pulls for our Giants 2nd, as I do his Bills 2nd. Now frost that cake with my wife being a lifetime Bills fan who also watches all the Giants games. Yes, we have two screens going some Sundays. I'm surrounded by Bills fans up here. I have to counsel some of them when they drafted Allen--"here we go again". They are conditioned to disappointment, and now of course NYG fans are becoming that way. Some of these relatives and friends have come around and admitted that I was right--they should be happy they drafted Allen. Of course now, its obvious. Now lets look at the drafting of Daniel Jones. I will admit I thought Lock was a better prospect. I no longer think that but was very opposed to NYG drafting Haskins. immobile and some maturity/attitude concerns. So far it looks like I was right on that but wish him well in Pitt. Jones won me over with his heart. Why I remain optimistic is I see MANY of the same things happen with DJ that happened with early Josh Allen. Both tried to win games singlehandedly like they did in College. It was not until Buffalo got line improved and added Diggs that Allen stopped running around in circles. Beasley was an early safety net for Allen. I saw the exact same "deer in the headlights" look in Allen those first two seasons as we have seen with Jones. People that say that was his first two seasons, lets remember not only was DJ drafted a year later, but he has had nothing but coaching instability and heinous O line since day 1. Of course he would not develop as fast as a young gun who had perfection for coddled development. Buffalo even got Derek Anderson off the couch as a back up to help give a vet outlook in QB room. Pocket awarenenss? Josh Allens first serious injury happened because he was staring downfield and LB Merciless blitzed on his vision side. Josh never saw him and he put a helmet on his throwing elbow. It was sad but funny when Derek Anderson told reporters= "I never thought I would actually play" It was bad but not Glennon bad. So I guess the fact that I have had an interest in Josh Allen since Wyoming, and have seen every snap both Jones and Allen have taken, gives me a unique insight. Josh Allen went through terrible periods his first two seasons and between season 2 and 3. It was a popular talk show topic-- "will Josh Allen EVER be a QB who can throw for 300 yds in a game?" That seems ridiculous now but they too thought they only had a running back playing QB and they had wasted yet another draft pick. Most of them wanted Darnold. I don't blame anyone who is stigmatized by this NYG losing era, but I just cannot give up on DJ knowing what I know he's had to deal with. Like early Josh Allen most of his miscues have been due to trying to do too much by themselves. Lots of similarities and not just negative ones. I remain hopeful that Schoen and Daboll can get DJ on track and we won't have to waste yet another high draft pick.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Jan 30, 2022 16:11:53 GMT -5
my biggest issue with Jones is that his two main flaws are not "fixable" but just who he is. His pocket management is poor and he doesn't go through his reads well enough with consistency. He will get his shot with this GM and HC but they will be looking to upgrade too. I dont see them going into this season 100% on JONES There are many astute football observers on this board, some I would say are experts. I feel I can speak on this one subject more than usual because I wanted a QB in the 2018 draft, and more importantly who I did NOT want. I did homework on the 2018 QB class and Josh Allen jumped out at me. Not just on the field, but how he conducted himself on the bench with his untalented teammates and his coaches. He was perfect off field and no doubt his road to the 1st round was a very rough one--leading to that coveted "chip on the shoulder". I wanted NYG to draft him--they had him in for 5 days. Ultimately Shurmur and Gettleman effed up royally. BUT, as many have said, perhaps NYG would have ruined him. I also liked Mayfield but did not think he fit NYG style coming off Eli. I was adamantly opposed to Darnold and Rosen, who I felt NYG were truly interested in. Honestly it was a combination of relief and disappointment(when they drafted Saquon), as it meant all the rumors about committed to win with Eli were true. Fast forward to Josh Allen being drafted by Buffalo. I have one sibling, a younger brother who grew up a Bills fan. He is astute on the Pro game as anyone on this board. He suffered an accident in '99 that left him a paraplegic. Spectator sports and his fandom have become extra important to him. He pulls for our Giants 2nd, as I do his Bills 2nd. Now frost that cake with my wife being a lifetime Bills fan who also watches all the Giants games. Yes, we have two screens going some Sundays. I'm surrounded by Bills fans up here. I have to counsel some of them when they drafted Allen--"here we go again". They are conditioned to disappointment, and now of course NYG fans are becoming that way. Some of these relatives and friends have come around and admitted that I was right--they should be happy they drafted Allen. Of course now, its obvious. Now lets look at the drafting of Daniel Jones. I will admit I thought Lock was a better prospect. I no longer think that but was very opposed to NYG drafting Haskins. immobile and some maturity/attitude concerns. So far it looks like I was right on that but wish him well in Pitt. Jones won me over with his heart. Why I remain optimistic is I see MANY of the same things happen with DJ that happened with early Josh Allen. Both tried to win games singlehandedly like they did in College. It was not until Buffalo got line improved and added Diggs that Allen stopped running around in circles. Beasley was an early safety net for Allen. I saw the exact same "deer in the headlights" look in Allen those first two seasons as we have seen with Jones. People that say that was his first two seasons, lets remember not only was DJ drafted a year later, but he has had nothing but coaching instability and heinous O line since day 1. Of course he would not develop as fast as a young gun who had perfection for coddled development. Buffalo even got Derek Anderson off the couch as a back up to help give a vet outlook in QB room. Pocket awarenenss? Josh Allens first serious injury happened because he was staring downfield and LB Merciless blitzed on his vision side. Josh never saw him and he put a helmet on his throwing elbow. It was sad but funny when Derek Anderson told reporters= "I never thought I would actually play" It was bad but not Glennon bad. So I guess the fact that I have had an interest in Josh Allen since Wyoming, and have seen every snap both Jones and Allen have taken, gives me a unique insight. Josh Allen went through terrible periods his first two seasons and between season 2 and 3. It was a popular talk show topic-- "will Josh Allen EVER be a QB who can throw for 300 yds in a game?" That seems ridiculous now but they too thought they only had a running back playing QB and they had wasted yet another draft pick. Most of them wanted Darnold. I don't blame anyone who is stigmatized by this NYG losing era, but I just cannot give up on DJ knowing what I know he's had to deal with. Like early Josh Allen most of his miscues have been due to trying to do too much by themselves. Lots of similarities and not just negative ones. I remain hopeful that Schoen and Daboll can get DJ on track and we won't have to waste yet another high draft pick. thanks for all that info. Looks like you have a great group to watch football with!! I am not giving up on Jones I am just not as confident he will put it all together. Of course would totally dig seeing the light go on for him. The team and staff around him has been shakey for sure. We will see just how much better he performs if the team and staff around him improves.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Jan 30, 2022 16:14:29 GMT -5
my biggest issue with Jones is that his two main flaws are not "fixable" but just who he is. His pocket management is poor and he doesn't go through his reads well enough with consistency. He will get his shot with this GM and HC but they will be looking to upgrade too. I dont see them going into this season 100% on JONESIf Mitch Trubisky is the backup, they will. Jones finally putting it all together has nothing to do with who he back up is. They will and should have a contingency plan. Not saying Trubisky is it. There is no way Schoen and Daboll think Jones is a slam dunk to finally "get it".
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 31, 2022 15:34:50 GMT -5
Schoen doesnt want Daboll to call the offense.
|
|
te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,997
|
Post by te88 on Jan 31, 2022 15:53:17 GMT -5
If they need Jones as a place holder until they find the right QB than I'm okay with it. Barkley can stay as long as they don't give him big dollars or if trading him is good for the team than I can pack his bags for him and drive him to the airport. Im not sure how much value Barkley has as far as draft picks. Maybe a 3rd or 4th at best IMO. Last year of his contract and always hurt. Man if they could move him I would do it. Gets the Barkley contract ideas out of your hair and lets you tailor this O the way you want without pressure to “feed” Barkley. Still gonna be a lot of senior losers in this org wanting to justify the Barkley pick. “He’s a great kid” I’ve heard enough. Even if he has an amazing season I would not re sign the track record of second contracts for RBs is horrible. Just cut bait now.
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Jan 31, 2022 15:59:22 GMT -5
Schoen doesnt want Daboll to call the offense. Good. It’s extremely difficult when the head coach calls the offensive plays, and is a field general for the other two facets of the team. Especially, a rookie head coach. Everyone wants to be Andy Reid, but most can’t do it.
|
|
|
Post by Rangers13 on Jan 31, 2022 16:02:25 GMT -5
Ralph Vacchiano ✔ @rvacchianosny Brian Daboll told @cartonroberts on @wfan660 that he signed a 5-year deal with the Giants.
I believe that's the same length that Pat Shurmur and Joe Judge got ... which, now that I think of it, means that all 3 are drawing salaries from the Giants this season.
lol, add in the coordinators and the Giants likely have the highest coaching payroll in sports.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 31, 2022 16:06:24 GMT -5
Schoen doesnt want Daboll to call the offense. Good. It’s extremely difficult when the head coach calls the offensive plays, and is a field general for the other two facets of the team. Especially, a rookie head coach. Everyone wants to be Andy Reid, but most can’t do it. I think it has to be done. I guess it makes Dorsey a must. Familiarity with what Daboll did in Buffalo. Was he officially hired as the OC?
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Jan 31, 2022 16:07:04 GMT -5
If Mitch Trubisky is the backup, they will. Jones finally putting it all together has nothing to do with who he back up is. They will and should have a contingency plan. Not saying Trubisky is it. There is no way Schoen and Daboll think Jones is a slam dunk to finally "get it". I didn't hear either Schoen or Daboll say Jones was a slam dunk, but they're clearly behind him as him starter for at least for this season. And I'm sure they understand the need for a quality backup.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 31, 2022 16:12:25 GMT -5
Jones finally putting it all together has nothing to do with who he back up is. They will and should have a contingency plan. Not saying Trubisky is it. There is no way Schoen and Daboll think Jones is a slam dunk to finally "get it". I didn't hear either Schoen or Daboll say Jones was a slam dunk, but they're clearly behind him as him starter for at least for this season. And I'm sure they understand the need for a quality backup. I haven't heard one person say they dont want Jones for at the very least the 2022 season. It makes sense IF he is healthy. Still doesn't rule out looking past 2022 for a replacement. Bringing in Trubisky makes a lot of sense.
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Jan 31, 2022 16:15:37 GMT -5
I didn't hear either Schoen or Daboll say Jones was a slam dunk, but they're clearly behind him as him starter for at least for this season. And I'm sure they understand the need for a quality backup. I haven't heard one person say they dont want Jones for at the very least the 2022 season. It makes sense IF he is healthy. Still doesn't rule out looking past 2022 for a replacement. Bringing in Trubisky makes a lot of sense. one way or another they need a serviceable back up. Jones's injury history dictates that as a must.
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Jan 31, 2022 16:16:21 GMT -5
Good. It’s extremely difficult when the head coach calls the offensive plays, and is a field general for the other two facets of the team. Especially, a rookie head coach. Everyone wants to be Andy Reid, but most can’t do it. I think it has to be done. I guess it makes Dorsey a must. Familiarity with what Daboll did in Buffalo. Was he officially hired as the OC? It will be done. Should I remind everyone the Dennys size menu play sheet McAdoo was engulfed in? That’s all we need is Brian Daboll and his cheese cake factory play sheet at his disposal.
|
|