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Post by GameTime on Jan 31, 2022 16:19:55 GMT -5
Jones finally putting it all together has nothing to do with who he back up is. They will and should have a contingency plan. Not saying Trubisky is it. There is no way Schoen and Daboll think Jones is a slam dunk to finally "get it". I didn't hear either Schoen or Daboll say Jones was a slam dunk, but they're clearly behind him as him starter for at least for this season. And I'm sure they understand the need for a quality backup. I didnt hear them say that either its just my perspective. They will give Jones the opportunity to be a starter but he I feel he will have competition and he is not THE starter for next season. They seem to like Jones but they want wins and if another QB looks to be better qualified they wont hesitate.
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Post by Zimonami on Jan 31, 2022 16:26:44 GMT -5
He knew his level of talent and scooped him up. As CDNGFAN said can the Giants fan base be patient and let things develop? With all the crap that has happened for 10 years it will be hard but I believe worth it if this guy Schoen is the real deal. I can only imagine if the internet existed in 1980 when we took a major step back in year 2 of George Young FIRE HIM FIRE HIM The uproar was loud after Young's very first pick in '79... Phil WHO? From Morehead State? Where's that? Many fans hated Simms until they built an Oline for him and we started winning. The man behind me in the stadium HATED Simms, and when 1986 rolled around he was eating crow with every win. When '87 started, after Simms '86 SB MVP and 22/25, the guy wanted to crawl under his seat. Give DJ an adequate Oline and we'll he'll turn out just fine.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 31, 2022 16:32:44 GMT -5
I can only imagine if the internet existed in 1980 when we took a major step back in year 2 of George Young FIRE HIM FIRE HIM The uproar was loud after Young's very first pick in '79... Phil WHO? From Morehead State? Where's that? Many fans hated Simms until they built an Oline for him and we started winning. The man behind me in the stadium HATED Simms, and when 1986 rolled around he was eating crow with every win. When '87 started, after Simms '86 SB MVP and 22/25, the guy wanted to crawl under his seat. Give DJ an adequate Oline and we'll he'll turn out just fine. While true, not every QB will turn into Phil Simms. Or Eli Manning. Even with the great OL. Sure, there are things Jones excelled at. It just wasn't consistent enough to me, and he didn't progress at all. Still has awareness issues. And now a serious neck injury. OL or no OL, he should be treated as a bonus if he comes back. HE also has had lower body injuries and a concussion in his short career already.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 31, 2022 16:33:44 GMT -5
I can only imagine if the internet existed in 1980 when we took a major step back in year 2 of George Young FIRE HIM FIRE HIM The uproar was loud after Young's very first pick in '79... Phil WHO? From Morehead State? Where's that? Many fans hated Simms until they built an Oline for him and we started winning. The man behind me in the stadium HATED Simms, and when 1986 rolled around he was eating crow with every win. When '87 started, after Simms '86 SB MVP and 22/25, the guy wanted to crawl under his seat. Give DJ an adequate Oline and we'll he'll turn out just fine.I used to think that too. Now I am not so sure. he gets hurts from running not getting sacked. He still cant manage the pocket or see his reads consistently well.
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Post by Martin on Jan 31, 2022 17:27:45 GMT -5
The uproar was loud after Young's very first pick in '79... Phil WHO? From Morehead State? Where's that? Many fans hated Simms until they built an Oline for him and we started winning. The man behind me in the stadium HATED Simms, and when 1986 rolled around he was eating crow with every win. When '87 started, after Simms '86 SB MVP and 22/25, the guy wanted to crawl under his seat. Give DJ an adequate Oline and we'll he'll turn out just fine.I used to think that too. Now I am not so sure. he gets hurts from running not getting sacked. He still cant manage the pocket or see his reads consistently well. I am concerned about his natural instinct as a QB. In college you can get by but in the NFL your instincts need to be sharp. I feel sometimes Jones is a half a beat late when making decisions. This will catch up with you and in fact lose games. I guess we see if he improves under the new set up.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 31, 2022 17:32:43 GMT -5
I used to think that too. Now I am not so sure. he gets hurts from running not getting sacked. He still cant manage the pocket or see his reads consistently well. I am concerned about his natural instinct as a QB. In college you can get by but in the NFL your instincts need to be sharp. I feel sometimes Jones is a half a beat late when making decisions. This will catch up with you and in fact lose games. I guess we see if he improves under the new set up. exactly.....and as we know those instincts cant be taught.
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Post by Zimonami on Jan 31, 2022 17:34:46 GMT -5
The uproar was loud after Young's very first pick in '79... Phil WHO? From Morehead State? Where's that? Many fans hated Simms until they built an Oline for him and we started winning. The man behind me in the stadium HATED Simms, and when 1986 rolled around he was eating crow with every win. When '87 started, after Simms '86 SB MVP and 22/25, the guy wanted to crawl under his seat. Give DJ an adequate Oline and we'll he'll turn out just fine. While true, not every QB will turn into Phil Simms. Or Eli Manning. Even with the great OL. Sure, there are things Jones excelled at. It just wasn't consistent enough to me, and he didn't progress at all. Still has awareness issues. And now a serious neck injury. OL or no OL, he should be treated as a bonus if he comes back. HE also has had lower body injuries and a concussion in his short career already. I totally disagree with you and believe that if he had a better Oline he would have progressed just fine. Time will tell.
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Post by Zimonami on Jan 31, 2022 17:41:11 GMT -5
The uproar was loud after Young's very first pick in '79... Phil WHO? From Morehead State? Where's that? Many fans hated Simms until they built an Oline for him and we started winning. The man behind me in the stadium HATED Simms, and when 1986 rolled around he was eating crow with every win. When '87 started, after Simms '86 SB MVP and 22/25, the guy wanted to crawl under his seat. Give DJ an adequate Oline and we'll he'll turn out just fine.I used to think that too. Now I am not so sure. he gets hurts from running not getting sacked. He still cant manage the pocket or see his reads consistently well. Because he doesn't have time to go through his progressions. There are few Q!B's in history that can come to the line, see the defense alignment and know exactly who his best first 2 targets will be., then release the ball an average of 2.1 sec. That takes time to master. Simms first 5 years as a Giant were not pretty, and neither was his OLine. Once they put the pieces of that together and he had more experience under his belt he was a very good QB thereafter. IMO, Jones is more accurate than Eli was but doesn't yet have the ability to read a defense like Eli did, or Brady. I believe he'll be significantly better with a better Oline and more time to read his progressions without running for his life.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 31, 2022 17:45:15 GMT -5
While true, not every QB will turn into Phil Simms. Or Eli Manning. Even with the great OL. Sure, there are things Jones excelled at. It just wasn't consistent enough to me, and he didn't progress at all. Still has awareness issues. And now a serious neck injury. OL or no OL, he should be treated as a bonus if he comes back. HE also has had lower body injuries and a concussion in his short career already. I totally disagree with you and believe that if he had a better Oline he would have progressed just fine. Time will tell. There have been many plays where he has time, and still doesn't make the right read or throw. At least a few times a game he still stares down the WR. This is in year 3 now. He is totally unaware of a pass rush barreling towards him. He takes way too many unnecessary hits. Holds the ball too long. Is there still a shot he could be better? Sure. He will be here for 2022 so lets see what happens. Bottom line is, even for a crap team, his play and production is back up QB level. Schoen and Daboll will say the right things for now. AS they should.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 31, 2022 17:45:58 GMT -5
I used to think that too. Now I am not so sure. he gets hurts from running not getting sacked. He still cant manage the pocket or see his reads consistently well. Because he doesn't have time to go through his progressions. There are few Q!B's in history that can come to the line, see the defense alignment and know exactly who his best first 2 targets will be., then release the ball an average of 2.1 sec. That takes time to master. Simms first 5 years as a Giant were not pretty, and neither was his OLine. Once they put the pieces of that together and he had more experience under his belt he was a very good QB thereafter. IMO, Jones is more accurate than Eli was but doesn't yet have the ability to read a defense like Eli did, or Brady. I believe he'll be significantly better with a better Oline and more time to read his progressions without running for his life. there were plenty of plays he did have time and just made the wrong decisions. I want Jones to succeed and I hope this group can put a better team on the field. They have to regardless of the QB. I hope you're right Zimm!!
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 1, 2022 15:33:33 GMT -5
Sorry to be negative Nancy all over again, not really, but Im beginning to not really feel good about our "start from fresh" rebuild here...
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Post by jaymas on Feb 1, 2022 15:46:21 GMT -5
Sorry to be negative Nancy all over again, not really, but Im beginning to not really feel good about our "start from fresh" rebuild here... That's the 3rd staff he's made it onto. I guess the positive spin is that a good coach must be a good coach? It's odd to me that he's survived two firings though.
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Post by jaymas on Feb 1, 2022 16:10:29 GMT -5
Shit, Tmac was also an assistant on Coughlin's staff.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 1, 2022 23:07:40 GMT -5
Shit, Tmac was also an assistant on Coughlin's staff. Has to be a Mara special... right?
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Post by cdngfan on Feb 2, 2022 1:13:53 GMT -5
The uproar was loud after Young's very first pick in '79... Phil WHO? From Morehead State? Where's that? Many fans hated Simms until they built an Oline for him and we started winning. The man behind me in the stadium HATED Simms, and when 1986 rolled around he was eating crow with every win. When '87 started, after Simms '86 SB MVP and 22/25, the guy wanted to crawl under his seat. Give DJ an adequate Oline and we'll he'll turn out just fine.I used to think that too. Now I am not so sure. he gets hurts from running not getting sacked. He still cant manage the pocket or see his reads consistently well. Same. I used to be on the side of getting better pieces around him. I think what Mara said is an understatement. I think he was a better QB than I thought when they drafted him, and they took his flaws and magnified them with an inability to put competence around him. We’ve all seen it with other young QBs on bad teams. They get wrecked. Jones can still be average. That won’t have us beating teams with good QBs, but it’s a couple steps up from where we are right now. If they find someone they’re willing to bet their reputations on, they’ll move on from DJ. Or if DJ insists on a long term deal. Until then, they’ll try and save a top 10 pick by making him an average QB.
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Post by cdngfan on Feb 2, 2022 1:25:02 GMT -5
Sorry to be negative Nancy all over again, not really, but Im beginning to not really feel good about our "start from fresh" rebuild here... Fair. But I think we’ve all underestimated the impact of an entire franchise pulling in the same direction. I can’t remember the Giants having that kind of culture. Ever. We’ve had saviours and great rosters/coaches. Something Daboll said I really liked. (Paraphrasing) Franchises win, not rosters or coaches. It takes the whole organization. You take a good coach and put him in a bad franchise and he’s going to struggle. Too many teams draft well while being well coached while developing players while finding pieces that fit with and enhance the culture. Seems like you can’t do just a couple things right and succeed. If Daboll wants him I’ll trust his judgement.
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 2, 2022 6:05:27 GMT -5
Sorry to be negative Nancy all over again, not really, but Im beginning to not really feel good about our "start from fresh" rebuild here... He’s a good coach. I have no problem with keeping good coaches
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Post by jaymas on Feb 2, 2022 22:04:07 GMT -5
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 3, 2022 12:09:42 GMT -5
I cant believe people still pay for articles on the internet. Cliff notes? Is there anything beyond the title significant? He is combing through the scouts? Also, question, can he still used the Bills scouting information or does he have to "burn" all of that stuff?
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Post by Speedman on Feb 3, 2022 12:12:15 GMT -5
I cant believe people still pay for articles on the internet. Cliff notes? Is there anything beyond the title significant? He is combing through the scouts? Also, question, can he still used the Bills scouting information or does he have to "burn" all of that stuff? He has to burn it into his brain.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 22, 2022 22:16:40 GMT -5
He pays attention to how players ask for water...
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Post by DandyDon on Feb 22, 2022 22:31:01 GMT -5
I'm an optimist. But he's never been a GM, going into a horrible cap situation, on a team that has been a joke for almost a decade.
With an almost brand new coaching staff, many of whom have never been at their positions before.
I'm rooting for him, but wouldn't want to be him.
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Post by Rangers13 on Feb 22, 2022 22:47:54 GMT -5
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giantsalmon
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Post by giantsalmon on Feb 23, 2022 10:11:39 GMT -5
He pays attention to how players ask for water... Quite different than what we have had for awhile. He and Beane were very big on not bringing "me me" type guys. He believes sincerely in team first.
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giantsalmon
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Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
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Post by giantsalmon on Feb 23, 2022 10:12:53 GMT -5
He's gonna find us some diamonds in the later rounds. Guys that can play and are affordable.
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Post by snyder55 on Feb 23, 2022 10:20:32 GMT -5
This reads like the playbook of an organizational leader. Listens first. Doesn’t assume he has all the answers. Relatable. Empathetic. Comfortable dealing above and below himself. He probably won’t decide what to do until here’s heard from multiple stakeholders and can see strategic direction in the decision. A prediction: some of what this GM does is going to frustrate fans. This is sounding better and better and better. We better not see a RB taken with either of our first 2 picks in April. no doubt Gettleman crapped his pants with that decision to go with Barkley...
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Post by snyder55 on Feb 23, 2022 10:22:18 GMT -5
The uproar was loud after Young's very first pick in '79... Phil WHO? From Morehead State? Where's that? Many fans hated Simms until they built an Oline for him and we started winning. The man behind me in the stadium HATED Simms, and when 1986 rolled around he was eating crow with every win. When '87 started, after Simms '86 SB MVP and 22/25, the guy wanted to crawl under his seat. Give DJ an adequate Oline and we'll he'll turn out just fine.I used to think that too. Now I am not so sure. he gets hurts from running not getting sacked. He still cant manage the pocket or see his reads consistently well. I agree, if Jones can't run he becomes a very ordinary QB, if he does run he gets hurt.
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Post by snyder55 on Feb 23, 2022 10:30:32 GMT -5
I used to think that too. Now I am not so sure. he gets hurts from running not getting sacked. He still cant manage the pocket or see his reads consistently well. Same. I used to be on the side of getting better pieces around him. I think what Mara said is an understatement. I think he was a better QB than I thought when they drafted him, and they took his flaws and magnified them with an inability to put competence around him. We’ve all seen it with other young QBs on bad teams. They get wrecked. Jones can still be average. That won’t have us beating teams with good QBs, but it’s a couple steps up from where we are right now. If they find someone they’re willing to bet their reputations on, they’ll move on from DJ. Or if DJ insists on a long term deal. Until then, they’ll try and save a top 10 pick by making him an average QB. actually I think you can win with an average QB but you must first surround that QB with the right pieces and there is the problem. I've never been a supporter in the theory that you build your team around the QB in order to make him successful, if that were true then just draft any QB in any round and it should work...
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mendy
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Posts: 4,010
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Post by mendy on Feb 23, 2022 10:50:23 GMT -5
The uproar was loud after Young's very first pick in '79... Phil WHO? From Morehead State? Where's that? Many fans hated Simms until they built an Oline for him and we started winning. The man behind me in the stadium HATED Simms, and when 1986 rolled around he was eating crow with every win. When '87 started, after Simms '86 SB MVP and 22/25, the guy wanted to crawl under his seat. Give DJ an adequate Oline and we'll he'll turn out just fine. While true, not every QB will turn into Phil Simms. Or Eli Manning. Even with the great OL. Sure, there are things Jones excelled at. It just wasn't consistent enough to me, and he didn't progress at all. Still has awareness issues. And now a serious neck injury. OL or no OL, he should be treated as a bonus if he comes back. HE also has had lower body injuries and a concussion in his short career already. I bring this up since Phil Simms has been mentioned. Phil's injury record is on par with Daniel Jones and it took Phil a few years 5 seasons to catch on in NY, he was benched for season 4 and 5 of his career in NY . Wasn't till 1984 that he caught on if I remember correctly.
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giantsalmon
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Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
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Post by giantsalmon on Feb 23, 2022 20:20:43 GMT -5
While true, not every QB will turn into Phil Simms. Or Eli Manning. Even with the great OL. Sure, there are things Jones excelled at. It just wasn't consistent enough to me, and he didn't progress at all. Still has awareness issues. And now a serious neck injury. OL or no OL, he should be treated as a bonus if he comes back. HE also has had lower body injuries and a concussion in his short career already. I bring this up since Phil Simms has been mentioned. Phil's injury record is on par with Daniel Jones and it took Phil a few years 5 seasons to catch on in NY, he was benched for season 4 and 5 of his career in NY . Wasn't till 1984 that he caught on if I remember correctly. I believe Simms threw for 4000 yds in 1984, which back then was a big deal. He absolutely went through his trials and tribulations.
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