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Post by Speedman on Aug 18, 2022 18:50:34 GMT -5
No. If he stays healthy he is much better than Taylor. That's not the logic you laid out in your hypothetical. You tried associating a high draft pick slot to QB play. Turns out in Jones' three years starting we've been slotted 4th, 11th and 5th. According to your logic, that makes Jones terrible. And when healthy Jones has shown extremely low production the past two years. Your mere opinion that he is "much better than Taylor" is largely unsubstantiated. Do you think that Taylor is a better QB than Jones?
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Post by GameTime on Aug 18, 2022 18:50:57 GMT -5
I dig Jones and want nothing more than for him to succeed. His situation hasnt been less than ideal the past 3 years and add in his injuries and he is still a question. In year 4 QBs do not get the leeway they were afforded the prior years. It doesnt matter anymore about the OL, coaches, WRs, etc. He either gets it done or he'll be on another team next season. I give him a 25% chance to become the franchise QB he was drafted to be. He has a steep hill to climb. He gets it done this year. I will be rooting hard for that
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Post by Speedman on Aug 18, 2022 18:55:06 GMT -5
Most of Taylor’s passes looked terrible last week. He is not a good choice for a staring QB. So that's it? One preseason game, playing with back ups and back up back ups, in a new system is the all the evaluation needed? If looking at the stat line Taylor performed better than Jones. If looking at Jones' career in totality he's be a below average QB guiding the Giants to one of the worst offense's in the NFL. Certainly one of the worst red zone offenses in the NFL. Yet I'm to assume most of Jones' passes look great? And that he is a good choice for a starting QB? Taylor has a whole career to prove that he is not a starting QB. If you really believe the bullshit that you post then you must want Taylor to be the starter.
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Post by Speedman on Aug 18, 2022 18:58:52 GMT -5
No. If he stays healthy he is much better than Taylor. That's not the logic you laid out in your hypothetical. You tried associating a high draft pick slot to QB play. Turns out in Jones' three years starting we've been slotted 4th, 11th and 5th. According to your logic, that makes Jones terrible. And when healthy Jones has shown extremely low production the past two years. Your mere opinion that he is "much better than Taylor" is largely unsubstantiated. I’ve said it a million times. Jones was shackled the last two years.
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Post by DandyDon on Aug 18, 2022 19:33:45 GMT -5
I love that people still think that they know how Jones reads the field by watching a game on regular television. I've watched him for 4 years. He can make any throw and he can run. His problem is his head. He stares down receivers. It's his biggest problem. Good defenders can read him and react.
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Post by Martin on Aug 18, 2022 19:38:57 GMT -5
I love that people still think that they know how Jones reads the field by watching a game on regular television. I've watched him for 4 years. He can make any throw and he can run. His problem is his head. He stares down receivers. It's his biggest problem. Good defenders can read him and react. Totally agreed about Jones he's thinking too much. He needs to go out there and let it fly.
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Post by Martin on Aug 18, 2022 19:42:30 GMT -5
Decision making after 1 preseason game is crazy . Lets see where this develops. How about after the Jet game we re-evaluate the whole preseason picture. How about we get input from the new HC and GM who have the most to lose in this process. I heard Dabol say we will play the players who are the best and if that means D Jones is the starter then they feel he gives the team the best chance of winning. If its TT then they think he's there man. I don't believe Schoen or Dabol have any loyalty to Daniel Jones. I believe their loyalty is to win! at this point I see Tyrod Taylor as the best QB between him and Jones, it all comes down to whether you're looking for wins in a rebuild season or building for the future and its certain that Taylor is not the future... [br TT is a proven backup and Daniel Jones if not careful will be the same. The HC and GM need to find this out this season. As you said the future is in the balance. I think there most concerned with the future.
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Post by Speedman on Aug 19, 2022 11:11:58 GMT -5
Do you think that Taylor is a better QB than Jones? In certain aspects, yes. In other aspects, no. I think they're both pretty mediocre/average QBs. Sounds like you were probably in favor of Geno Smith also.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 19, 2022 13:12:10 GMT -5
In certain aspects, yes. In other aspects, no. I think they're both pretty mediocre/average QBs. Sounds like you were probably in favor of Geno Smith also. My God....that's a 1 out of 10 response. Let's try to keep it a bit wittier here. We have higher standards.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 19, 2022 13:19:04 GMT -5
Do you think that Taylor is a better QB than Jones? In certain aspects, yes. In other aspects, no. I think they're both pretty mediocre/average QBs. Here's the difference between the two. After 10 seasons Tyrod Taylor has proven that he can win football games in the NFL. After 3 seasons Daniel Jones has not.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Aug 19, 2022 13:31:08 GMT -5
In certain aspects, yes. In other aspects, no. I think they're both pretty mediocre/average QBs. Here's the difference between the two. After 10 seasons Tyrod Taylor has proven that he can win football games in the NFL. After 3 seasons Daniel Jones has not. To me the difference is one team is really giving one a chance, the other has had his chance with 5 other teams.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 19, 2022 13:33:40 GMT -5
Here's the difference between the two. After 10 seasons Tyrod Taylor has proven that he can win football games in the NFL. After 3 seasons Daniel Jones has not. To me the difference is one team is really giving one a chance, the other has had his chance with 5 other teams. well....not really. How many chances did TT get to become a franchise QB or a starter? Not 5 times.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 19, 2022 13:55:16 GMT -5
My God....that's a 1 out of 10 response. Let's try to keep it a bit wittier here. We have higher standards. You gave that a 1? Seems like you're feeling generous today. I can't help but give.
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Aug 19, 2022 14:08:08 GMT -5
In certain aspects, yes. In other aspects, no. I think they're both pretty mediocre/average QBs. Here's the difference between the two. After 10 seasons Tyrod Taylor has proven that he can win football games in the NFL. After 3 seasons Daniel Jones has not. I would say the second half of this statement is true. Jones hasn't proven he can consistently win. Where I disagree with is Taylor. He has proven in his 10 seasons that he cannot win consistently in the NFL. He's a fine back-up, probably exactly who a contending team would want as a back-up. Someone that can be steady at the position if the starter goes down. If he was a consistent winner, he wouldn't be a back-up QB. He'd be starting.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 19, 2022 14:13:04 GMT -5
Here's the difference between the two. After 10 seasons Tyrod Taylor has proven that he can win football games in the NFL. After 3 seasons Daniel Jones has not. I would say the second half of this statement is true. Jones hasn't proven he can consistently win. Where I disagree with is Taylor. He has proven in his 10 seasons that he cannot win consistently in the NFL. He's a fine back-up, probably exactly who a contending team would want as a back-up. Someone that can be steady at the position if the starter goes down. If he was a consistent winner, he wouldn't be a back-up QB. He'd be starting. I would, in no way suggest that Taylor is the future of this team. Nor would I even suggest he should start on this football team right now. What I AM suggesting is that right now, he's a better NFL QB than Daniel Jones.
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Eazy E
Special Teams
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Post by Eazy E on Aug 19, 2022 14:32:43 GMT -5
I agree. And I dont think there is another team in the NFL that would have handed over the reigns in the 4th yr to Daniel Jones giving all the situations (coaching changes- gm changes- neck injury -low production) he has been through and production that has been executed. Not 1. So for that matter, the only common demoninator(coaching staff - gm - owner between the past 4 seasons John Mara. I blame you Mr Mara for this situation. We have gone all in on our present QB. Im glad we a have a good backup QB.
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Eazy E
Special Teams
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Post by Eazy E on Aug 19, 2022 14:45:40 GMT -5
Ill go out on a further limb. This organization had a chance to go after a plan C option in the event that DJ got hurt. A first rd talent that was there at our 3rd pick. QB Malik Willis. In my opinion, I think that will go as one of the biggest passes we have ever made in the draft. Its almost as hard to find a good starting CB as it is to find a starting QB. Think, after 3 years we are stiĺl questioning the QB situation. The CB could be on somebodys pratice squad by next year or the year after. Wasnt hard to take a long shot swing at Malik and bench him for the year. Now next year we might be in QB hell again to pick who knows what college QB. Sounds like another regime change ahead before we get a real good solid QB starter if DJ flops. Im tired of losing. Hope that doesnt happen.
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Aug 19, 2022 14:59:04 GMT -5
I would say the second half of this statement is true. Jones hasn't proven he can consistently win. Where I disagree with is Taylor. He has proven in his 10 seasons that he cannot win consistently in the NFL. He's a fine back-up, probably exactly who a contending team would want as a back-up. Someone that can be steady at the position if the starter goes down. If he was a consistent winner, he wouldn't be a back-up QB. He'd be starting. I would, in no way suggest that Taylor is the future of this team. Nor would I even suggest he should start on this football team right now. What I AM suggesting is that right now, he's a better NFL QB than Daniel Jones. I wouldn't argue with your opinion on that. Taylor has certainly shown to be able to play well more consistently than Jones has. It's likely exactly why the team brought Taylor in. Along with his past connection to Daboll, and his past play, they see him as a bulwark for the season in the event that Jones craters. They can at least put Taylor in there for the rest of the season, and he'll play competently enough where they'll be able to accurately evaluate the rest of the team and allow some of the other young pieces to grow.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Aug 19, 2022 15:22:50 GMT -5
To me the difference is one team is really giving one a chance, the other has had his chance with 5 other teams. well....not really. How many chances did TT get to become a franchise QB or a starter? Not 5 times. I would disagree, he has had opportunity every single place as he does here. If Jones gets hurt and he goes in and plays it's an opportunity for him.
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Post by Speedman on Aug 19, 2022 16:00:52 GMT -5
I would say the second half of this statement is true. Jones hasn't proven he can consistently win. Where I disagree with is Taylor. He has proven in his 10 seasons that he cannot win consistently in the NFL. He's a fine back-up, probably exactly who a contending team would want as a back-up. Someone that can be steady at the position if the starter goes down. If he was a consistent winner, he wouldn't be a back-up QB. He'd be starting. I would, in no way suggest that Taylor is the future of this team. Nor would I even suggest he should start on this football team right now. What I AM suggesting is that right now, he's a better NFL QB than Daniel Jones. If you believe he is a better QB than Jones then why don’t you want him to be the starter? You always say it’s about wins and losses. Seems contradictory to me.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 19, 2022 16:59:27 GMT -5
I would, in no way suggest that Taylor is the future of this team. Nor would I even suggest he should start on this football team right now. What I AM suggesting is that right now, he's a better NFL QB than Daniel Jones. If you believe he is a better QB than Jones then why don’t you want him to be the starter? You always say it’s about wins and losses. Seems contradictory to me. Because Taylor is what he is. I still think that while I'm a bit pessimistic, I DO think that Jones has more upside and it's in our team's interest to give him the chance to improve. Tyrod Taylor isn't improving. But the fact that our braintrust didn't pick up Jones' option should suggest that they share my pessimism, despite what they say for public consumption.
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Post by Speedman on Aug 19, 2022 18:01:18 GMT -5
If you believe he is a better QB than Jones then why don’t you want him to be the starter? You always say it’s about wins and losses. Seems contradictory to me. Reread his first sentence again. Slower this time. Do you have reading comprehension problems?
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Post by Speedman on Aug 19, 2022 18:04:57 GMT -5
If you believe he is a better QB than Jones then why don’t you want him to be the starter? You always say it’s about wins and losses. Seems contradictory to me. Because Taylor is what he is. I still think that while I'm a bit pessimistic, I DO think that Jones has more upside and it's in our team's interest to give him the chance to improve. Tyrod Taylor isn't improving. But the fact that our braintrust didn't pick up Jones' option should suggest that they share my pessimism, despite what they say for public consumption. You always say it’s about results. If you think Taylor is the better QB why wouldn’t you want him to start?
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 19, 2022 18:17:27 GMT -5
If you believe he is a better QB than Jones then why don’t you want him to be the starter? You always say it’s about wins and losses. Seems contradictory to me. Because Taylor is what he is. I still think that while I'm a bit pessimistic, I DO think that Jones has more upside and it's in our team's interest to give him the chance to improve. Tyrod Taylor isn't improving. But the fact that our braintrust didn't pick up Jones' option should suggest that they share my pessimism, despite what they say for public consumption. It's called prudence,It's called common sense to not pick up the option Dumb teams do things like this like Carolina not only trading for Darnold but giving him the option (who will now sit behind the guy taken 2 spots ahead of him ) Between injuries and the black hole known as the past 2 seasons no sane front office would I'm one of the few here left apparently that think there is a very high end untapped ceiling in Jones and I had thought declining the option was the right thing...
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 19, 2022 23:16:40 GMT -5
Because Taylor is what he is. I still think that while I'm a bit pessimistic, I DO think that Jones has more upside and it's in our team's interest to give him the chance to improve. Tyrod Taylor isn't improving. But the fact that our braintrust didn't pick up Jones' option should suggest that they share my pessimism, despite what they say for public consumption. You always say it’s about results. If you think Taylor is the better QB why wouldn’t you want him to start? Sorry. You're just going to have to deal with it.
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Post by Roswell on Aug 20, 2022 6:38:13 GMT -5
Because Taylor is what he is. I still think that while I'm a bit pessimistic, I DO think that Jones has more upside and it's in our team's interest to give him the chance to improve. Tyrod Taylor isn't improving. But the fact that our braintrust didn't pick up Jones' option should suggest that they share my pessimism, despite what they say for public consumption. It's called prudence,It's called common sense to not pick up the option Dumb teams do things like this like Carolina not only trading for Darnold but giving him the option (who will now sit behind the guy taken 2 spots ahead of him ) Between injuries and the black hole known as the past 2 seasons no sane front office would I'm one of the few here left apparently that think there is a very high end untapped ceiling in Jones and I had thought declining the option was the right thing... I agree. They want him to be the guy. They think he can be the guy. And they’re giving him this year to prove he can be the guy. But if he’s not the guy, at least they can cut ties with him cleanly. And if he is the guy, they may pay a bit more but they will do that gladly.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 20, 2022 9:23:38 GMT -5
It's called prudence,It's called common sense to not pick up the option Dumb teams do things like this like Carolina not only trading for Darnold but giving him the option (who will now sit behind the guy taken 2 spots ahead of him ) Between injuries and the black hole known as the past 2 seasons no sane front office would I'm one of the few here left apparently that think there is a very high end untapped ceiling in Jones and I had thought declining the option was the right thing... I agree. They want him to be the guy. They think he can be the guy. And they’re giving him this year to prove he can be the guy. But if he’s not the guy, at least they can cut ties with him cleanly. And if he is the guy, they may pay a bit more but they will do that gladly. I'm sure "they want him to be the guy". I'm also sure "they think he can be the guy". I'm also pretty sure they don't think he will be the guy. That's why you don't pick up that option.
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Post by Speedman on Aug 20, 2022 9:24:28 GMT -5
You always say it’s about results. If you think Taylor is the better QB why wouldn’t you want him to start? Sorry. You're just going to have to deal with it. It’s your mindset. You have to deal with it.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 20, 2022 9:29:48 GMT -5
Sorry. You're just going to have to deal with it. It’s your mindset. You have to deal with it. I love it when everybody wins.....
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Post by Roswell on Aug 20, 2022 10:12:37 GMT -5
I agree. They want him to be the guy. They think he can be the guy. And they’re giving him this year to prove he can be the guy. But if he’s not the guy, at least they can cut ties with him cleanly. And if he is the guy, they may pay a bit more but they will do that gladly. I'm sure "they want him to be the guy". I'm also sure "they think he can be the guy". I'm also pretty sure they don't think he will be the guy. That's why you don't pick up that option. Isnt that a contradiction? I think they’re hedging their bets.
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