miggs
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Post by miggs on Aug 21, 2022 9:59:49 GMT -5
It's not impossible to tell if Jones is a far better QB. He's always had an accurate arm and brains. But unlike in prior seasons, he's now playing in a far better offensive system and offensive line. Just needs to get command of plays and know where defenders will be lurking.
You'll see that clearly when he plays in all 4 quarters of a season's game. Excessive interceptions and fumbles will be in the past, passing and running touchdowns will be in vogue.
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Martin
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Post by Martin on Aug 21, 2022 10:12:53 GMT -5
You always say it’s about results. If you think Taylor is the better QB why wouldn’t you want him to start? Because we know Tyrods ceiling is not one that brings the team to the promise land. And while it's unlikely Jones can, there is still a chance that he hasn't reached his ceiling, and that ceiling could be higher. It's all about playing the odds. If Jones turns into a top notch QB, it brings a huge windfall to the team. Tyrod really only prevents this team bring being a 2 win team as opposed to a 5 win team. Risk vs reward. "IF" Jones moves to another level its a big deal. You have to be 100% sure about him and I don't think that has yet happened. This is the year to know either way. I agree with your assessment. The HC and GM know plenty about TT but Jones is the mystery,
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 21, 2022 10:14:57 GMT -5
Gucken Fettleman set this team back 5 plus years.... If this regime has this team near playoff contention in 2023 it will be a miracle It all started and ended with taking a RB 2nd overall... It was just such an absolutely awful allocation of resources that crushed our chances of success. DG would have had to be a rockstar at every other single move he made in order to build a good team, which just isn't reasonable to expect. Actually starting with how he tried to band aid a lepper that free agency period. Be honest...LT was a dumpster fire 2018 and 2019... Would Flowers have been any worse still on a rookie deal in 2018...and draft Orlando Brown in the 3rd to groom as his replacement? That cap albatross hung over the team all 4 years he was here and indirectly caused this cap issue with his band aid spree last year.. Ogletree for a 4th and then restructuring..
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Post by imgrate on Aug 21, 2022 18:28:57 GMT -5
It all started and ended with taking a RB 2nd overall... It was just such an absolutely awful allocation of resources that crushed our chances of success. DG would have had to be a rockstar at every other single move he made in order to build a good team, which just isn't reasonable to expect. Actually starting with how he tried to band aid a lepper that free agency period. Be honest...LT was a dumpster fire 2018 and 2019... Would Flowers have been any worse still on a rookie deal in 2018...and draft Orlando Brown in the 3rd to groom as his replacement? That cap albatross hung over the team all 4 years he was here and indirectly caused this cap issue with his band aid spree last year.. Ogletree for a 4th and then restructuring.. I see your point, but I could see other, competent GMs signing Solder and likewise on Orlando Brown.. Ogletree trade was dumb and a red flag.... However, I just can't see any random person with good sense, let alone a person with years of experience in the NFL, taking a RB 2nd overall. ESPECIALLY, when there's a solid trade offer. Like you have to be an utter and complete moron to have done that. So, it also set us back because, let's say you get that extra 1st and 2nd round pick. All those guys you mentioned, you can get with those extra picks, **** up on the rest of your picks, and you'd still be in better shape. As you can tell, I am just so completely dumbfounded every time I think about the decision making on the SQB draft pick.
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 22, 2022 6:05:37 GMT -5
back to the DJ TT discussion, I thought DJ clearly outplayed TT yesterday. TT has poise, and certainly understands the offense. I just don't think his overall skill-set is as good. If DJ continues to progress in the offense, he should be fine.
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Post by bizcliz on Aug 22, 2022 7:57:06 GMT -5
Yeah Jones is better than Tyrod at everything except maybe juking 2nd string LBs 15 yards back from the LOS
The talent level really isn't that close either. The convo should be Webb or Tyrod as QB2
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Post by cdngfan on Aug 22, 2022 8:17:08 GMT -5
Yeah Jones is better than Tyrod at everything except maybe juking 2nd string LBs 15 yards back from the LOS The talent level really isn't that close either. The convo should be Webb or Tyrod as QB2 It’s just a game but Webb looked really comfortable. And Daboll said it. 3 years with this system. He gets it. Jones doesn’t have 3 years but at least we can see what time in the system can look like.
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3days
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Post by 3days on Aug 22, 2022 10:33:00 GMT -5
I will make the same snap statement that was made to start this. Webb is better than Tyrod!
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 22, 2022 10:59:56 GMT -5
I will make the same snap statement that was made to start this. Webb is better than Tyrod! The "snap statement" was based on the last 7 years of Tyrod Taylor's play vs. the last 3 years of Daniel Jones' play.
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Post by Speedman on Aug 22, 2022 14:58:27 GMT -5
Taylor was a waste of cap space. Would rather have Jones, Webb and a rookie.
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3days
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Post by 3days on Aug 22, 2022 15:01:13 GMT -5
I will make the same snap statement that was made to start this. Webb is better than Tyrod! The "snap statement" was based on the last 7 years of Tyrod Taylor's play vs. the last 3 years of Daniel Jones' play. . Not what you said…. But I'm sorry, right now, August 2022, Tyrod Taylor is the better QB. He's SO much better in the pocket. He makes better decisions. He just looks like a solid NFL QB.
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Post by PennState1 on Aug 22, 2022 15:12:57 GMT -5
You always say it’s about results. If you think Taylor is the better QB why wouldn’t you want him to start? Because we know Tyrods ceiling is not one that brings the team to the promise land. And while it's unlikely Jones can, there is still a chance that he hasn't reached his ceiling, and that ceiling could be higher. It's all about playing the odds. If Jones turns into a top notch QB, it brings a huge windfall to the team. Tyrod really only prevents this team bring being a 2 win team as opposed to a 5 win team. Best post in the thread
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 15:42:26 GMT -5
Jones > Taylor > Webb One pre season game against 2 and 3’s sure has suddenly created many QB experts
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Post by Jomo on Aug 22, 2022 15:46:52 GMT -5
I can only imagine how todays fans would treat Joe Namath. more picks than TDs.. love that stat But he looked good in panty hose! lol I wonder what % of people here even know the reference??
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Post by Jomo on Aug 22, 2022 15:47:56 GMT -5
Jones had the most impressive outing yesterday.
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Post by Kruunch on Aug 22, 2022 15:53:38 GMT -5
Jones > Taylor > Webb One pre season game against 2 and 3’s sure has suddenly created many QB experts It’s not even a debate. Webb is good as gone after next weeks game. Taylor doesn’t have to prove shit, just stay healthy and be ready if and when your number is called.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 22, 2022 16:46:40 GMT -5
The "snap statement" was based on the last 7 years of Tyrod Taylor's play vs. the last 3 years of Daniel Jones' play. . Not what you said…. But I'm sorry, right now, August 2022, Tyrod Taylor is the better QB. He's SO much better in the pocket. He makes better decisions. He just looks like a solid NFL QB.
As I said....based on 7 years of Tyrod Taylor and 3 years of Daniel Jones.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 22, 2022 17:06:24 GMT -5
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Post by Roswell on Aug 22, 2022 17:30:54 GMT -5
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Post by Blue Hulk on Aug 22, 2022 18:53:05 GMT -5
For those too young to remember, we passed on Gayle Sayers, Dick Butkus and Joe Namath (3 Hall of Fame players) in a single draft. Sweet hyperbole.... I can only imagine how todays fans would treat Joe Namath. Joe would be out the league in a year due to social media. He was a wild boy
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Post by moecoastie on Aug 22, 2022 19:12:14 GMT -5
I guess this whole TT thing was fun while it lasted..LOL
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Post by PennState1 on Aug 22, 2022 23:36:44 GMT -5
Before making final call on Jones, consider this QB comparison…
Completion %. Jones 63. Allen 60 Pass & rush YPG. Jones 247. Allen 249 Pass TD -INT. Jones 45-29. Allen 51-28
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 23, 2022 8:21:35 GMT -5
Before making final call on Jones, consider this QB comparison… Completion %. Jones 63. Allen 60 Pass & rush YPG. Jones 247. Allen 249 Pass TD -INT. Jones 45-29. Allen 51-28 QB's are paid to do one thing and one thing one.....Win football games.
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Post by jaymas on Aug 23, 2022 8:48:09 GMT -5
Before making final call on Jones, consider this QB comparison… Completion %. Jones 63. Allen 60 Pass & rush YPG. Jones 247. Allen 249 Pass TD -INT. Jones 45-29. Allen 51-28 QB's are paid to do one thing and one thing one.....Win football games. Such a classic deflection and exaggeration. I've said it before, QB being the most important position in football has somehow been exaggerated into "they win games single handedly." What's the major difference in those two situations...one guy went into one of the best run organizations in football and the other guy got drafted into the literal worst run organization since 2017. Do I think DJ has the physical tools or is as good as Josh Allen, not even close. But that's a telling aggregation of statistics that does a good job highlighting how rough it's been here.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 23, 2022 9:43:25 GMT -5
QB's are paid to do one thing and one thing one.....Win football games. Such a classic deflection and exaggeration. I've said it before, QB being the most important position in football has somehow been exaggerated into "they win games single handedly." What's the major difference in those two situations...one guy went into one of the best run organizations in football and the other guy got drafted into the literal worst run organization since 2017. Do I think DJ has the physical tools or is as good as Josh Allen, not even close. But that's a telling aggregation of statistics that does a good job highlighting how rough it's been here. Someone here actually tried to compare one of the truly elite QB's in the NFL to Daniel Jones. I mean....just think about that. Daniel Jones isn't in the same ballpark as Josh Allen. He's not in the same city. He's not in the same country. You can compare cherry picked stats if you like, stats that don't come close to defining any QB.....but Josh Allen makes big plays in big spots. he throws and runs for TD's. He's a physical force on the field. His teammates would run through a brick wall for him.....And he wins football games. He makes good defenses look like scrubs. He makes plays in a collapsing pocket. He makes throws that no QB in the league can make. To try to compare a handful of stats from both guys in their first three seasons is an insult to any football fan. Josh Allen is great. Daniel Jones is not.
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Post by jaymas on Aug 23, 2022 10:00:49 GMT -5
Such a classic deflection and exaggeration. I've said it before, QB being the most important position in football has somehow been exaggerated into "they win games single handedly." What's the major difference in those two situations...one guy went into one of the best run organizations in football and the other guy got drafted into the literal worst run organization since 2017. Do I think DJ has the physical tools or is as good as Josh Allen, not even close. But that's a telling aggregation of statistics that does a good job highlighting how rough it's been here. Someone here actually tried to compare one of the truly elite QB's in the NFL to Daniel Jones. I mean....just think about that. Daniel Jones isn't in the same ballpark as Josh Allen. He's not in the same city. He's not in the same country. You can compare cherry picked stats if you like, stats that don't come close to defining any QB.....but Josh Allen makes big plays in big spots. he throws and runs for TD's. He's a physical force on the field. His teammates would run through a brick wall for him.....And he wins football games. He makes good defenses look like scrubs. He makes plays in a collapsing pocket. He makes throws that no QB in the league can make. To try to compare a handful of stats from both guys in their first three seasons is an insult to any football fan. Josh Allen is great. Daniel Jones is not. The stats aren't cherry picked. It's the first x amount of starts for both guys. No one is trying to say that Daniel Jones is great, or comparing DJ now to what Josh Allen has done the last two years, but it absolutely highlights in a different situation Daniel Jones would probably be better, I don't think that's really arguable as he put up similar statistics in a far worse situation through the same x amount of starts. The things you're saying aren't even the argument. Someone is trying to fairly highlight that the team a QB is on has a significant effect on how they perform and how they are perceived. It also could be a sign, that maybe, just maybe the kid can take a jump. Or he doesn't. We'll see what happens. Josh Allen is one of the best QBs in the NFL, Daniel Jones isn't. But it's possible he makes a jump based on things like the evidence that was just provided. All of these things can be true or possible at the same time, it's not a zero sum game.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 23, 2022 10:12:10 GMT -5
Jones has one more season to show he can be a franchise QB or not. What Taylor or any other QB has accomplished means absolutely nothing in regards to Jones' future.
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Post by jaymas on Aug 23, 2022 10:15:45 GMT -5
The stats aren't cherry picked.. Those stats are literally the definition of “cherry picked” unless you’re about to argue that there are only three statistics for QBs. Haha, that's not cherry-picking, it's comparing two guys through the exact same period of time in their careers using the same statistical categories. Daniel Jones has had 38 starts, what did Josh Allen do through his first 38 starts in those categories? It's not an advanced analysis using complex, calculated metrics, but a career snapshot that tells a bit of a story. The story is Daniel Jones is not an unmitigated disaster, but the Giants sure have been. That doesn't mean anyone is saying he's as good as Josh Allen (or even on the same planet). I'd never try and argue it. Josh Allen is not only one of the best, he's a favorite non-Giants player of mine. Love his game. But overall, I'd say it's a potential sign that in what I'm assuming is going to be a better situation this year, DJ makes a jump. That's my prediction, I could be wrong.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 23, 2022 10:24:06 GMT -5
Jones has one more season to show he can be a franchise QB or not. What Taylor or any other QB has accomplished means absolutely nothing in regards to Jones' future. This board is so funny. In a week it went from is TT better than DJ to is Webb better than TT. DJ is the starter. TT is the backup. Webb is 3rd string. These things may be up for grabs on this board but its pretty clear they will not change for the coaches any time soon (if ever).
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 23, 2022 10:36:02 GMT -5
Someone here actually tried to compare one of the truly elite QB's in the NFL to Daniel Jones. I mean....just think about that. Daniel Jones isn't in the same ballpark as Josh Allen. He's not in the same city. He's not in the same country. You can compare cherry picked stats if you like, stats that don't come close to defining any QB.....but Josh Allen makes big plays in big spots. he throws and runs for TD's. He's a physical force on the field. His teammates would run through a brick wall for him.....And he wins football games. He makes good defenses look like scrubs. He makes plays in a collapsing pocket. He makes throws that no QB in the league can make. To try to compare a handful of stats from both guys in their first three seasons is an insult to any football fan. Josh Allen is great. Daniel Jones is not. The stats aren't cherry picked. It's the first x amount of starts for both guys. No one is trying to say that Daniel Jones is great, or comparing DJ now to what Josh Allen has done the last two years, but it absolutely highlights in a different situation Daniel Jones would probably be better, I don't think that's really arguable as he put up similar statistics in a far worse situation through the same x amount of starts. The things you're saying aren't even the argument. Someone is trying to fairly highlight that the team a QB is on has a significant effect on how they perform and how they are perceived. It also could be a sign, that maybe, just maybe the kid can take a jump. Or he doesn't. We'll see what happens. Josh Allen is one of the best QBs in the NFL, Daniel Jones isn't. But it's possible he makes a jump based on things like the evidence that was just provided. All of these things can be true or possible at the same time, it's not a zero sum game. Yes of course....the Buffalo Bills are a premium franchise. It was a can't miss being drafted by them.
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