miggs
Starter
Posts: 4,642
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Post by miggs on Aug 24, 2022 8:34:00 GMT -5
Jones has significantly improved his consistency on the pace of the ball he throws on shorter passes. He's far more relaxed. Contrast that with him firing the ball too hard and over the head of the back along the sidelines over his head in the Patriot game. Didn't see him doing that in the Bengals game.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 24, 2022 8:40:01 GMT -5
As I said....I'm basing it on 7 years of Taylor and 3 years of Jones. I have no idea why you are suggesting I'm saying otherwise. Taylor has been the league for 11 years ,and has progressively gotten worse after 2017 Taylor's first 3 years ( year 5 in the league) Completion percentage 63% Yards per attempt 7.2 Taylor's past 4 years ( horrible) Completion percentage 57.5% Yards per attempt 6.1 His completion % fell 5.5 points His YPA fell a full yard. The past 4 years Jones Completion percentage 63% Yards per attempt 6.6 Taylor is getting old and has trouble completing passes. FYI this preseason Jones's completion percentage is 77% Taylor's completion percentage is 62.5% 14.5 points lower than Jones' "Tyrod Taylor is better" is not the phrase I would have used to named this thread. I would have gone with; "Tyrod Taylor is better than Mike Glennon" Unfortunately, Jones has gotten worse as well.
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Post by TEM on Aug 24, 2022 8:53:31 GMT -5
Taylor has been the league for 11 years ,and has progressively gotten worse after 2017 Taylor's first 3 years ( year 5 in the league) Completion percentage 63% Yards per attempt 7.2 Taylor's past 4 years ( horrible) Completion percentage 57.5% Yards per attempt 6.1 His completion % fell 5.5 points His YPA fell a full yard. The past 4 years Jones Completion percentage 63% Yards per attempt 6.6 Taylor is getting old and has trouble completing passes. FYI this preseason Jones's completion percentage is 77% Taylor's completion percentage is 62.5% 14.5 points lower than Jones' "Tyrod Taylor is better" is not the phrase I would have used to named this thread. I would have gone with; "Tyrod Taylor is better than Mike Glennon" Unfortunately, Jones has gotten worse as well. No true his numbers have been getting better. www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneDa05.htm
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Tyrell
Special Teams
Posts: 441
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Post by Tyrell on Aug 24, 2022 8:56:33 GMT -5
Both tyrod and Jones would be made or broken with the oline. tyrod might handle a lousy oline a little better, but if the oline sucks, so do we all.......
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 24, 2022 9:01:45 GMT -5
Unfortunately, he seems to have traded productivity for ball security. But all I can say to you about Daniel Jones is that I hope you're right. I'm not pounding the table that Daniel Jones sucks. As a matter of fact I think he has a lot of tools. He throws it well, he's accurate. He moves well. He works hard.........So he has a nice upside. My problem with DJ is that he's not calm in the pocket. He doesn't feel the rush. He locks onto receivers. He doesn't make subtle moves in the pocket to create time. These things, it seems to me, can't be coached. They come from experience. That to me, after three years, hasn't improved. But give him time, give him open receivers, and he can make plays. I guess that's the key with him. He needs a lot around him. Maybe this regime will provide that. But successful QB's, thrive when they don't have those things. Joe Burrow was harassed as much as any QB last year. Yet he was fantastic last year. I like that the new staff is encouraging him to take more risks. Maybe that's what he needs. the old staff seemed to be stressing ball security over playmaking. As I said...I want you to be right because I like Daniel Jones. He's easy to root for. Nothing would make me happier that for him to prove me wrong. But I'm trying to be objective here.
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Post by Roswell on Aug 24, 2022 9:17:32 GMT -5
I agree mostly The QB should be listed as a "major" component. I am sure you have math for this but I would think a QBs play has more to do with losses and wins, in general, than any other individual position. With that said its a huge team game. Even in baseball the tide has shifted away from wins and losses as an important stat for a pitcher. team game The QB position group is no different than the importance of any other. If a GM goes too far over on what percentage of cap allocation is applied to a particular position group. Needed cap percentage will be taken away from another group or all groups (underfunded). The result: that group where money was taken from will have substandard players. I will say it again: The 2 root parameters in building a roster if not correct, will hamper the ability to win a championship. 1) Cap spending on position groups. 2) Production verses Availability. Mostly I agree with what you've been saying in this thread but here is where I differ. The top QBs may not get you a ring but its hard to say they don't get you to the dance. More so than any other position player. Do they need support? Of course but there are very few teams that win consistently without a real good QB.
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Post by TEM on Aug 24, 2022 9:45:37 GMT -5
Unfortunately, he seems to have traded productivity for ball security. But all I can say to you about Daniel Jones is that I hope you're right. I'm not pounding the table that Daniel Jones sucks. As a matter of fact I think he has a lot of tools. He throws it well, he's accurate. He moves well. He works hard.........So he has a nice upside. My problem with DJ is that he's not calm in the pocket. He doesn't feel the rush. He locks onto receivers. He doesn't make subtle moves in the pocket to create time. These things, it seems to me, can't be coached. They come from experience. That to me, after three years, hasn't improved. But give him time, give him open receivers, and he can make plays. I guess that's the key with him. He needs a lot around him. Maybe this regime will provide that. But successful QB's, thrive when they don't have those things. Joe Burrow was harassed as much as any QB last year. Yet he was fantastic last year. I like that the new staff is encouraging him to take more risks. Maybe that's what he needs. the old staff seemed to be stressing ball security over playmaking. As I said...I want you to be right because I like Daniel Jones. He's easy to root for. Nothing would make me happier that for him to prove me wrong. But I'm trying to be objective here. I agree with you. We need him to succeed.
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Post by TEM on Aug 24, 2022 9:56:23 GMT -5
The QB position group is no different than the importance of any other. If a GM goes too far over on what percentage of cap allocation is applied to a particular position group. Needed cap percentage will be taken away from another group or all groups (underfunded). The result: that group where money was taken from will have substandard players. I will say it again: The 2 root parameters in building a roster if not correct, will hamper the ability to win a championship. 1) Cap spending on position groups. 2) Production verses Availability. Mostly I agree with what you've been saying in this thread but here is where I differ. The top QBs may not get you a ring but its hard to say they don't get you to the dance. More so than any other position player. Do they need support? Of course but there are very few teams that win consistently without a real good QB. As I said a team does not need to have the best . Just good enough to complement the rest of the team. Yeah it sounds easy to get spending and team configuration congruent. I am positive it is a daunting task to accomplish.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 28, 2022 12:40:03 GMT -5
Can we revisit the premise of this thread?
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Post by presumablygunner on Aug 28, 2022 12:46:52 GMT -5
Can we revisit the premise of this thread? 🧑🦯🧑🦯🧑🦯🧑🦯🧑🦯🧑🦯🧑🦯🧑🦯
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Post by DJones19 on Aug 28, 2022 12:53:44 GMT -5
Hope Tyrod is OK but to me the question I ask is if he is better than Davis Webb.
Not sure if Tyrod has lost zip on the ball over the years but I've seen a lot of ducks.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 28, 2022 13:08:23 GMT -5
Hope Tyrod is OK but to me the question I ask is if he is better than Davis Webb. Not sure if Tyrod has lost zip on the ball over the years but I've seen a lot of ducks. I posted before he got hurt. Hope he's OK. PS he's better as a backup than Webb. He's not better than DJ.
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Post by PennState1 on Aug 28, 2022 13:14:11 GMT -5
Short arm king
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Post by McCherry on Aug 28, 2022 13:18:48 GMT -5
Can we revisit the premise of this thread? I have an Avocado from July that's aging better than this thread.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 28, 2022 13:30:33 GMT -5
He looked decent in game 1 pre-season. I am not sure where that all went today.
Short armed and errant.
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 28, 2022 13:40:16 GMT -5
Can we revisit the premise of this thread? I didn't see the first half, but I thought I heard Papa say they Giants were playing their 2's against the Jets 1's, whereas in practice and previous games Tyrod has been going against 2's.
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Post by TEM on Aug 28, 2022 13:57:05 GMT -5
Can we revisit the premise of this thread? I didn't see the first half, but I thought I heard Papa say they Giants were playing their 2's against the Jets 1's, whereas in practice and previous games Tyrod has been going against 2's. Our O-line backups almost got him killed.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 28, 2022 14:28:46 GMT -5
I didn't see the first half, but I thought I heard Papa say they Giants were playing their 2's against the Jets 1's, whereas in practice and previous games Tyrod has been going against 2's. Our O-line backups almost got him killed. That was obvious right out of the blocks. The second team OL which looked pretty good last week didn't show up against the Jets 1's today.
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Post by hof56lt on Aug 28, 2022 15:46:04 GMT -5
Why do we give this thread so much credibility? I thought it was humorous why so many fell into a trap thinking they had to respond to this ridiculous post. Tyrod was nothing more than a career backup and will be our 3rd string QB based on performance not injury.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 28, 2022 15:49:40 GMT -5
Dabol said TT should be okay. That is good to hear.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 28, 2022 16:50:37 GMT -5
after watching preseason I will go out on a limb and say TT would be no better and probably worse than Jones if he was starting at QB for the NYGs. I would not have said that prior to preseason.
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Post by Speedman on Aug 28, 2022 17:21:24 GMT -5
after watching preseason I will go out on a limb and say TT would be no better and probably worse than Jones if he was starting at QB for the NYGs. I would not have said that prior to preseason. I’ve been saying it from the beginning.
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Post by Martin on Aug 28, 2022 18:42:35 GMT -5
Honestly its been difficult to gauge this team up to this point. D. Jones for sure has more potential then TT but only time will tell. Meaning you got to play him to see where your future will be. TT can make plays but he's not the future and would be the road to picking a QB in the next draft. I will say this, the team overall looks respectable as a functioning team based on me watching the last 5 years of Giants preseason. It seems a little different in terms of coaching, play calling and players in the right position. We've all been down this road before so we get ready to rumble. Let the regular season begin!
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Post by TEM on Aug 28, 2022 18:45:27 GMT -5
I think this can be stretched out to at least 20 pages.
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Post by TEM on Aug 28, 2022 18:46:31 GMT -5
Honestly its been difficult to gauge this team up to this point. D. Jones for sure has more potential then TT but only time will tell. Meaning you got to play him to see where your future will be. TT can make plays but he's not the future and would be the road to picking a QB in the next draft. I will say this, the team overall looks respectable as a functioning team based on me watching the last 5 years of Giants preseason. It seems a little different in terms of coaching, play calling and players in the right position. We've all been down this road before so we get ready to rumble. Let the regular season begin! We won't get a gauge until week 4
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 28, 2022 18:46:56 GMT -5
I think this can be stretched out to at least 20 pages. In the old days the backup QB (who rarely played) was the fan favorite.
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Post by Roswell on Aug 28, 2022 19:11:58 GMT -5
Can we revisit the premise of this thread? We can but we might be getting third degree burns from the hot take.
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Post by Roswell on Aug 28, 2022 19:15:44 GMT -5
As long as we’re giving white hot takes, the guy who’s 4th string QB on the Jets is a very serviceable QB that, if Taylor is laid up, would be a good QB 3 for our side.
That guy has been getting it done all preseason.
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giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,925
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Post by giantsalmon on Aug 28, 2022 19:20:00 GMT -5
I think we all wanted TT to be back up supreme, but like I said earlier, Buffalo went hard into QB replacement after a superlative defensive performance in the playoffs but TT could not muster any offense. TT is a great guy, a great teammate, perhaps a good mentor but Webb is a better back up for THIS NYG team. He can coach the offense he knows it so well, he isn't immobile, and he is much cheaper for the cash strapped team.
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Post by scoostraw on Aug 28, 2022 19:40:21 GMT -5
I like Webb. Always have.
I think there is a very good chance he sees the field this season.
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