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Post by giantsmets on Aug 14, 2022 5:33:18 GMT -5
Exactly what I saw with Tyrod - scratching my head at all the positive comments for Tyrod when his accuracy was well below par, then Jones misses one pass on an overthrow in the flat and there are posts on how terrible he is. I simply don't get the hate for Jones and the lack of understanding that the last two years the team around him was as bad as it could be in the NFL with an absolutely terrible offensive line and an injury plagued receiver group and no running game. The team will be so much better off if Jones becomes the QB in 2023. I don’t get how people don’t understand that Jones got to play with the starters against back ups and Tyrod had to play with back ups vs a lot of the same back ups that Jones faced with the starters yet their completion percentage was identical and Tyrod threw twice as many passes. Surprised even Simms doesn’t mention it, it’s kind of an important factor. If our back up defense got smoked by another teams starting offense would it be fair to say our defense sucks? That’s what’s happening here but it’s the other way around. If the roles were reversed, I bet Jones would have done worse than Tyrod because he would have been sacked under pressure and wouldn’t get the ball out as quick. If anything, considering all factors, they were identical which isn’t good when comparing a possible future franchise QB to a back up. It’s not hate for Jones, it’s the truth and I think we all want Jones to be the answer but reality says otherwise. So, the excuses are good for Taylor who was pedestrian at best. Jones had 1st string o-line for the 1st series only and drove the team down the field and threw a perfect pass to Golladay who did what Kenny always does, made sure it didn't get in the end zone. Your "reality" is not what everyone else believes. I think Jones proves the haters wrong this season as he will finally have league average pass protection and a decent set of weapons(assuming Toney finds the field this year). As for Tyrod, he is a much better backup than what we had last year but he is exactly that a backup and not someone we want to see starting because that spells another 2-3 years of terrible football because we have to start fresh with a rookie qb.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Aug 14, 2022 6:28:27 GMT -5
This thread is nothing but the same old stuff. Those that like Jones think he did ok, those that don't like Jones think Taylor was better.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 14, 2022 7:14:49 GMT -5
This thread is nothing but the same old stuff. Those that like Jones think he did ok, those that don't like Jones think Taylor was better. there are many that are highly skeptical of Jones but like him so to speak. I had way more optimism in him before last season. I get he had a shit show around him and that certainly matters but you can read between the lines with his faults. The issue now in year 4 he wont get any slack because of OL, WRs, new scheme etc. No 4th year young QB gets to have leeway. He has to overcome his own struggles as well as the one's the team will no doubt have. Fair or not thats the reality. Taylor doesnt have to worry about any of that. The approach to the game for Jones and Taylor are so different. Taylor can play relaxed and he is also a 10 year vet who knows his place on the roster.
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Post by giantsmets on Aug 14, 2022 7:29:21 GMT -5
This thread is nothing but the same old stuff. Those that like Jones think he did ok, those that don't like Jones think Taylor was better. there are many that are highly skeptical of Jones but like him so to speak. I had way more optimism in him before last season. I get he had a shit show around him and that certainly matters but you can read between the lines with his faults. The issue now in year 4 he wont get any slack because of OL, WRs, new scheme etc. No 4th year young QB gets to have leeway. He has to overcome his own struggles as well as the one's the team will no doubt have. Fair or not thats the reality. Taylor doesnt have to worry about any of that. The approach to the game for Jones and Taylor are so different. Taylor can play relaxed and he is also a 10 year vet who knows his place on the roster. That is a rational take on the situation. As for last year, Getty put a dumpster fire on the field(for those that actually played). I believe Jones will be fine given what he has been given to support him this year. It definitely is a make or break season no doubt. I think he has the tools to lead this team while others do not. Will he? We should all hope so as it is so much better for the franchise that he is the QB rather than starting over. One thing for certain, if this is another 4 or 5 win season the team is moving on. Like everyone else the losing is getting old and would love to enjoy meaningful football in December.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 14, 2022 7:36:48 GMT -5
there are many that are highly skeptical of Jones but like him so to speak. I had way more optimism in him before last season. I get he had a shit show around him and that certainly matters but you can read between the lines with his faults. The issue now in year 4 he wont get any slack because of OL, WRs, new scheme etc. No 4th year young QB gets to have leeway. He has to overcome his own struggles as well as the one's the team will no doubt have. Fair or not thats the reality. Taylor doesnt have to worry about any of that. The approach to the game for Jones and Taylor are so different. Taylor can play relaxed and he is also a 10 year vet who knows his place on the roster. That is a rational take on the situation. As for last year, Getty put a dumpster fire on the field(for those that actually played). I believe Jones will be fine given what he has been given to support him this year. It definitely is a make or break season no doubt. I think he has the tools to lead this team while others do not. Will he? We should all hope so as it is so much better for the franchise that he is the QB rather than starting over. One thing for certain, if this is another 4 or 5 win season the team is moving on. Like everyone else the losing is getting old and would love to enjoy meaningful football in December. he has all the tools but using them properly is the hurdle he needs to get over. The game needs to slow down for him. Or at least that's my perception.
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Post by giantsmets on Aug 14, 2022 8:04:37 GMT -5
That is a rational take on the situation. As for last year, Getty put a dumpster fire on the field(for those that actually played). I believe Jones will be fine given what he has been given to support him this year. It definitely is a make or break season no doubt. I think he has the tools to lead this team while others do not. Will he? We should all hope so as it is so much better for the franchise that he is the QB rather than starting over. One thing for certain, if this is another 4 or 5 win season the team is moving on. Like everyone else the losing is getting old and would love to enjoy meaningful football in December. he has all the tools but using them properly is the hurdle he needs to get over. The game needs to slow down for him. Or at least that's my perception. Hopefully an improved o-line helps slow down the game a bit for him
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Post by SG88 on Aug 14, 2022 10:34:01 GMT -5
I take it Chris Simms is no longer an idiot because he threw some praise in Jones direction, right😄? Anyways, I learned nothing new about Jones or Taylor for that matter in that preseason game. They both played against Patriot 2nd string and even roster bubble players who will be in the XFL come next year.
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Post by Martin on Aug 14, 2022 10:38:10 GMT -5
I take it Chris Simms is no longer an idiot because he threw some praise in Jones direction, right😄? Anyways, I learned nothing new about Jones or Taylor for that matter in that preseason game. They both played against Patriot 2nd string and even roster bubble players who will be in the XFL come next year. Yes correct. Let's talk about Jones after game 6. I'm sure there will be plenty to talk about good or bad.
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Post by SG88 on Aug 14, 2022 10:41:33 GMT -5
I take it Chris Simms is no longer an idiot because he threw some praise in Jones direction, right😄? Anyways, I learned nothing new about Jones or Taylor for that matter in that preseason game. They both played against Patriot 2nd string and even roster bubble players who will be in the XFL come next year. Yes correct. Let's talk about Jones after game 6. I'm sure there will be plenty to talk about good or bad. I just feel like success and failures this early in the game are always overstated.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 14, 2022 10:43:55 GMT -5
I take it Chris Simms is no longer an idiot because he threw some praise in Jones direction, right😄? Anyways, I learned nothing new about Jones or Taylor for that matter in that preseason game. They both played against Patriot 2nd string and even roster bubble players who will be in the XFL come next year. My loyalty to Phil Simms (favorite player ever) would never let me call his son an idiot. 😊
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Post by vinnie on Aug 14, 2022 11:02:19 GMT -5
I don’t get how people don’t understand that Jones got to play with the starters against back ups and Tyrod had to play with back ups vs a lot of the same back ups that Jones faced with the starters yet their completion percentage was identical and Tyrod threw twice as many passes. Surprised even Simms doesn’t mention it, it’s kind of an important factor. If our back up defense got smoked by another teams starting offense would it be fair to say our defense sucks? That’s what’s happening here but it’s the other way around. If the roles were reversed, I bet Jones would have done worse than Tyrod because he would have been sacked under pressure and wouldn’t get the ball out as quick. If anything, considering all factors, they were identical which isn’t good when comparing a possible future franchise QB to a back up. It’s not hate for Jones, it’s the truth and I think we all want Jones to be the answer but reality says otherwise. So, the excuses are good for Taylor who was pedestrian at best. Jones had 1st string o-line for the 1st series only and drove the team down the field and threw a perfect pass to Golladay who did what Kenny always does, made sure it didn't get in the end zone. Your "reality" is not what everyone else believes. I think Jones proves the haters wrong this season as he will finally have league average pass protection and a decent set of weapons(assuming Toney finds the field this year). As for Tyrod, he is a much better backup than what we had last year but he is exactly that a backup and not someone we want to see starting because that spells another 2-3 years of terrible football because we have to start fresh with a rookie qb. IIRC, Tyrod completed 11 of his 13 first passes and also scored a TD. Jones and Tyrod had roughly the same completion percentage so if Tyrod was “pedestrian at best” then what was Jones? Especially considering Tyrod faced more pressure and was playing with more scrubs. So Jones drove down the field with the starters on the first drive and was forced to punt on the second drive whereas Tyrod actually did drive down the field with that same group according to you. I think Jones has another average to below average year and the excuses will continue. “He was dealing with a new OC” “the O line needed time to gel” “this was his 3rd HC” “the WR’s weren’t that good”…it will be the same excuses as every other year. I’m also not as optimistic as you about having average pass protection. That O line was playing back ups who were playing a very elementary defense. I’ll until Jones has to start making better decisions in a more complex offense against starters who are playing in a defense designed to expose the team’s weaknesses and IF he still drives down the field like he did on the first drive consistently AGAINST average teams at a minimum, then I will start sipping the DJ Kool Aid. He doesn’t get kudos from me for beating teams like Houston or the Jets or any of the other bottom dwellers. If he’s our franchise QB he should be expected to beat those teams, not get praised. I never said Tyrod was the answer, I think they should stick with Jones unless he completely shits the bed. I hope the best for Jones but so far I haven’t seen anything close to a franchise QB except for a few “flashes” which multiple back ups have shown at some point throughout their career.
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Post by krappdetector on Aug 14, 2022 12:01:45 GMT -5
Morehead is right. Jones' biggest fault is his pocket presence.. or rather his lack of it. He reacts too late to pressure so rather than step smoothly away from it he panics and runs while losing sight of the field. That's why he doesn't make successful off-script throws. I believe he has inferior peripheral vision, which could also account for his low success rate with passes to the flats and outside the numbers. And if the game hasn't slowed up for him enough by now it never will.
I hope Daboll's pressers going forward are more upbeat than the one he just gave at today's practice, otherwise expect to see games with lots more of the same.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Aug 14, 2022 13:48:23 GMT -5
very well put and about as plain as it can be Jumping way ahead here but if Jones doesn’t work out, I was thinking what they would do if there were 3 QB’s they liked and all were taken. Would they take a flyer on someone else, roll with Taylor for another year which would essentially extend the rebuild at least 2 more years into 2025 because it’s doubtful a rookie QB would come in and take us to the playoffs, or go the FA route? Although if we did wait to draft a QB until 2024 then all the pieces should be in place by that point which would make it ideal for a QB on a rookie contract. Just food for thought, long ways to go before that becomes a reality. good questions that's for sure. I'm not sure what the best case scenario would be and I almost wouldn't mind them building the team up then getting the qb whatever route that takes. Almost like a Denver broncos type situation. Been awhile since we've had to worry about that and with Eli we had the qb in place when we got him and just started adding pieces. So not sure I mean depends on what qb's and if they are a can't miss prospect and we are able to get him without mortgaging the house. Indeed time will tell. Pulling for DJ to succeed so we can just continue to bolster the team around him. Make things easier all the way around
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Post by myronguyton29 on Aug 14, 2022 13:55:43 GMT -5
Morehead is right. Jones' biggest fault is his pocket presence.. or rather his lack of it. He reacts too late to pressure so rather than step smoothly away from it he panics and runs while losing sight of the field. That's why he doesn't make successful off-script throws. I believe he has inferior peripheral vision, which could also account for his low success rate with passes to the flats and outside the numbers. And if the game hasn't slowed up for him enough by now it never will. I hope Daboll's pressers going forward are more upbeat than the one he just gave at today's practice, otherwise expect to see games with lots more of the same. how would you describe his presser I didn't see it? Was it one of " Damn we look like shit and got a lot of work to do " or what?
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Post by vinnie on Aug 14, 2022 13:57:07 GMT -5
Jumping way ahead here but if Jones doesn’t work out, I was thinking what they would do if there were 3 QB’s they liked and all were taken. Would they take a flyer on someone else, roll with Taylor for another year which would essentially extend the rebuild at least 2 more years into 2025 because it’s doubtful a rookie QB would come in and take us to the playoffs, or go the FA route? Although if we did wait to draft a QB until 2024 then all the pieces should be in place by that point which would make it ideal for a QB on a rookie contract. Just food for thought, long ways to go before that becomes a reality. good questions that's for sure. I'm not sure what the best case scenario would be and I almost wouldn't mind them building the team up then getting the qb whatever route that takes. Almost like a Denver broncos type situation. Been awhile since we've had to worry about that and with Eli we had the qb in place when we got him and just started adding pieces. So not sure I mean depends on what qb's and if they are a can't miss prospect and we are able to get him without mortgaging the house. Indeed time will tell. Pulling for DJ to succeed so we can just continue to bolster the team around him. Make things easier all the way around. For sure. That’s the thing with some people, just because we don’t think DJ will succeed for whatever reasons, doesn’t mean we don’t want him to succeed. Some people even think it means we hate him which is ridiculous. I hope he lights it up, I just don’t think he will, at least not two years in a row.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Aug 14, 2022 14:05:40 GMT -5
True true and I'm anxious to see him in the remaining 2 pre season games as well just to get a guage on if we see anything different that's pointing upward. I mean and sure ready for that first game vs TN. Hopefully he proves us all wrong but I definitely need to see more
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Post by Speedman on Aug 14, 2022 15:31:45 GMT -5
Morehead is right. Jones' biggest fault is his pocket presence.. or rather his lack of it. He reacts too late to pressure so rather than step smoothly away from it he panics and runs while losing sight of the field. That's why he doesn't make successful off-script throws. I believe he has inferior peripheral vision, which could also account for his low success rate with passes to the flats and outside the numbers. And if the game hasn't slowed up for him enough by now it never will. I hope Daboll's pressers going forward are more upbeat than the one he just gave at today's practice, otherwise expect to see games with lots more of the same. Once he gets the clock in his head right his pocket presence should improve.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 14, 2022 15:33:28 GMT -5
Morehead is right. Jones' biggest fault is his pocket presence.. or rather his lack of it. He reacts too late to pressure so rather than step smoothly away from it he panics and runs while losing sight of the field. That's why he doesn't make successful off-script throws. I believe he has inferior peripheral vision, which could also account for his low success rate with passes to the flats and outside the numbers. And if the game hasn't slowed up for him enough by now it never will. I hope Daboll's pressers going forward are more upbeat than the one he just gave at today's practice, otherwise expect to see games with lots more of the same. Once he gets the clock in his head right his pocket presence should improve. How many years does that take?
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Post by Speedman on Aug 14, 2022 20:43:44 GMT -5
Once he gets the clock in his head right his pocket presence should improve. How many years does that take? Only one and this is the one.
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Post by krappdetector on Aug 14, 2022 20:50:45 GMT -5
Morehead is right. Jones' biggest fault is his pocket presence.. or rather his lack of it. He reacts too late to pressure so rather than step smoothly away from it he panics and runs while losing sight of the field. That's why he doesn't make successful off-script throws. I believe he has inferior peripheral vision, which could also account for his low success rate with passes to the flats and outside the numbers. And if the game hasn't slowed up for him enough by now it never will. I hope Daboll's pressers going forward are more upbeat than the one he just gave at today's practice, otherwise expect to see games with lots more of the same. how would you describe his presser I didn't see it? Was it one of " Damn we look like shit and got a lot of work to do " or what? He sounded subdued.. almost depressed.
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Post by Martin on Aug 14, 2022 22:18:22 GMT -5
Yes correct. Let's talk about Jones after game 6. I'm sure there will be plenty to talk about good or bad. I just feel like success and failures this early in the game are always overstated. Every single year is the same thing. People go over the edge and they can't help themselves. I have no idea who Jones is based on history. I know one thing and that is he had plenty to work on in the off season. I will give him only this year to prove it to me as a fan that he is the leader of the Giants. He has his work cut out for him. I wish him luck cause he's gonna need it.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 14, 2022 22:22:02 GMT -5
How many years does that take? Only one and this is the one. The first three didn't count?
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Post by moecoastie on Aug 14, 2022 22:57:27 GMT -5
After a session in the backyard I've decided Taylor may indeed be the better player now and for this season. Unfortunately, Taylor is not the better option for the NYG.
At best, Taylor gets us to middle of the pack and out of a high draft pick for the NYG for the next two years.
On the other hand, Jones has the potential to be boom or bust. There is no middle ground for him. He has to ball out or he is gone.
The NYG have to get out of QB hell, and that includes mid-level veteran qbs. This is the best way to facilitate this process.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Aug 15, 2022 3:21:46 GMT -5
Only one and this is the one. The first three didn't count? If this is Jones last chance and people are asking if his first three don't count what does that say about Taylor and all the teams he has been with without being successful? Yet he is better then Jones, I don't get it?
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Post by myronguyton29 on Aug 15, 2022 6:24:18 GMT -5
how would you describe his presser I didn't see it? Was it one of " Damn we look like shit and got a lot of work to do " or what? He sounded subdued.. almost depressed. was if the one after the game? Because he gave a nice speech and one that I actually loved. I think it was a breath of fresh air of the way it seems someone who knows what they are doing and has a grasp on a plan to carry out needed to articulate to his team
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Post by myronguyton29 on Aug 15, 2022 6:26:05 GMT -5
The first three didn't count? If this is Jones last chance and people are asking if his first three don't count what does that say about Taylor and all the teams he has been with without being successful? Yet he is better then Jones, I don't get it? i'd say right now in the grand scheme of things they are 1a,1b from either side. Each has the chance to show in the next 3 games which one should actually have the keys to the mansion for this year.....
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Aug 15, 2022 7:01:32 GMT -5
If this is Jones last chance and people are asking if his first three don't count what does that say about Taylor and all the teams he has been with without being successful? Yet he is better then Jones, I don't get it? i'd say right now in the grand scheme of things they are 1a,1b from either side. Each has the chance to show in the next 3 games which one should actually have the keys to the mansion for this year..... Taylor has had his chance and with different teams. This is Jones show, his last chance with the Giants who gets the keys as you say has already been decided , Jones just has to play well enough to keep them.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Aug 15, 2022 7:24:21 GMT -5
i'd say right now in the grand scheme of things they are 1a,1b from either side. Each has the chance to show in the next 3 games which one should actually have the keys to the mansion for this year..... Taylor has had his chance and with different teams. This is Jones show, his last chance with the Giants who gets the keys as you say has already been decided , Jones just has to play well enough to keep them. true yeah probably a better overall assessment
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Post by Jomo on Aug 15, 2022 7:30:02 GMT -5
Taylor has had his chance and with different teams. This is Jones show, his last chance with the Giants who gets the keys as you say has already been decided , Jones just has to play well enough to keep them. true yeah probably a better overall assessment Here's the deal, and I like TT. If TT is our starter at any time this year (absent injury) then we are committed to drafting a QB in the first-round next year. That sets our rebuild back a year or two. TT is not our next franchise QB. We need to give DJ a full look this year to determine once and for all where our priorities will be in the next off season
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Post by myronguyton29 on Aug 15, 2022 7:48:13 GMT -5
true yeah probably a better overall assessment Here's the deal, and I like TT. If TT is our starter at any time this year (absent injury) then we are committed to drafting a QB in the first-round next year. That sets our rebuild back a year or two. TT is not our next franchise QB. We need to give DJ a full look this year to determine once and for all where our priorities will be in the next off season sure we do I agree I just hope he grasps the moment and get the job done and I'm rooting for the guy. I mean I guess we can leave him in there no matter what and see how the overall year looks with him sure. But Daboll and Schoen wanting to win games as well if he is costing the team too much then at some point they will likely pull the plug.
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