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Post by cdngfan on Aug 15, 2022 7:57:48 GMT -5
true yeah probably a better overall assessment Here's the deal, and I like TT. If TT is our starter at any time this year (absent injury) then we are committed to drafting a QB in the first-round next year. That sets our rebuild back a year or two. TT is not our next franchise QB. We need to give DJ a full look this year to determine once and for all where our priorities will be in the next off season Agree with everything other than one point. TT gives the FO more than this off-season to pick a QB. If Schoen falls in love and isn’t too far back from the top 3 picks to trade up, then I agree. But if we win 6 or 7 and Schoen doesn’t love Willis, it may cost too much to move up and grab the QB they do want. It seems that the cost of acquiring a QB is getting excessively expensive and it’s realistic that there will be a bunch of QB hungry franchises desperate for a QB. So I don’t disagree on moving away from Jones, I just wonder if we’re picking at say, 11, can we find a positional partner who’s not taking a QB and what will it cost? Three 1sts seems to be the starting bid for QBs. It’s not inconceivable thst it could cost four 1sts depending on the composition at the top of the draft. Maybe that’s the price of doing business.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 15, 2022 9:27:47 GMT -5
true yeah probably a better overall assessment Here's the deal, and I like TT. If TT is our starter at any time this year (absent injury) then we are committed to drafting a QB in the first-round next year. That sets our rebuild back a year or two. TT is not our next franchise QB. We need to give DJ a full look this year to determine once and for all where our priorities will be in the next off season I'm sure you're right. They will give him every chance to succeed. Because they know that benching him would spell the end of his career as a Giant, and most likely his NFL career as a starting QB. That's why I support starting him at season's beginning. My only point is that right now, I think we would win more games with Taylor at QB.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 15, 2022 9:32:33 GMT -5
The first three didn't count? If this is Jones last chance and people are asking if his first three don't count what does that say about Taylor and all the teams he has been with without being successful? Yet he is better then Jones, I don't get it? Well the cold facts are that Tyrod Taylor has a career passer rating of 88. He has a better than 2/1 ratio of TD's to Int's. He also is slightly better than .500 as a starting QB. His productivity and win/loss record far surpasses Daniel Jones. So when you say he hasn't had success....I don't agree. That isn't a great record, but it certainly isn't a failed one either.
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Post by ratbastich on Aug 15, 2022 9:33:16 GMT -5
Here's the deal, and I like TT. If TT is our starter at any time this year (absent injury) then we are committed to drafting a QB in the first-round next year. That sets our rebuild back a year or two. TT is not our next franchise QB. We need to give DJ a full look this year to determine once and for all where our priorities will be in the next off season I'm sure you're right. They will give him every chance to succeed. Because they know that benching him would spell the end of his career as a Giant, and most likely his NFL career as a starting QB. That's why I support starting him at season's beginning. My only point is that right now, I think we would win more games with Taylor at QB.I agree with this statement. Eyeball test, Taylor was more poised and seemed more confident. He has years of experience behind him and since he is aware he is not the starter, really has nothing to lose. Jones has a lot of work to do and, hopefully, he can use Taylor's experience and knowledge to build from.
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Post by krappdetector on Aug 15, 2022 9:47:06 GMT -5
He sounded subdued.. almost depressed. was if the one after the game? Because he gave a nice speech and one that I actually loved. I think it was a breath of fresh air of the way it seems someone who knows what they are doing and has a grasp on a plan to carry out needed to articulate to his team No. It was the video called "Coach Brian Daboll updates Shane Lemieux's status" where he says Saquon was not responsible for a chip block on the incomplete pass to Golladay near the end zone. JMO opinion though.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 15, 2022 9:58:05 GMT -5
Here's the deal, and I like TT. If TT is our starter at any time this year (absent injury) then we are committed to drafting a QB in the first-round next year. That sets our rebuild back a year or two. TT is not our next franchise QB. We need to give DJ a full look this year to determine once and for all where our priorities will be in the next off season Agree with everything other than one point. TT gives the FO more than this off-season to pick a QB. If Schoen falls in love and isn’t too far back from the top 3 picks to trade up, then I agree. But if we win 6 or 7 and Schoen doesn’t love Willis, it may cost too much to move up and grab the QB they do want. It seems that the cost of acquiring a QB is getting excessively expensive and it’s realistic that there will be a bunch of QB hungry franchises desperate for a QB. So I don’t disagree on moving away from Jones, I just wonder if we’re picking at say, 11, can we find a positional partner who’s not taking a QB and what will it cost? Three 1sts seems to be the starting bid for QBs. It’s not inconceivable thst it could cost four 1sts depending on the composition at the top of the draft. Maybe that’s the price of doing business. It does ease the intensity of the search next year but in the end we lose another year because we are not winning a SB with TT unless our D turns into the 1985 Bears or more recent Ravens.
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DJones19
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Post by DJones19 on Aug 15, 2022 10:37:13 GMT -5
Kind of funny how the last time the media made a huge deal about Jones having a bad practice stating he went something like 6-19 with and INT or 2...they left out the fact that they were practicing 3rd and long plays only. Context matters!
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DJones19
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Post by DJones19 on Aug 15, 2022 10:41:40 GMT -5
Mike Glennon had an 83-84 QB rating as a rookie and starter his first 2 years in Tampa Bay. Glennon had a 49 QB rating with us.
...looks like the problem with the offense last year was much greater than just the QB.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 11:17:04 GMT -5
Taylor might be starting if Jones stalls like he has to this point. I've seen enough of Jones to say he's a decent backup. this will be the year for sure.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 15, 2022 11:53:59 GMT -5
Taylor might be starting if Jones stalls like he has to this point. I've seen enough of Jones to say he's a decent backup. this will be the year for sure. so if all he becomes is a decent back up the why not leave him in. TT is a decent back up too and not much more.
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theproblem
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Post by theproblem on Aug 15, 2022 13:12:15 GMT -5
Here's my take:
After 1 pre-season game, I'm going to have to disagree with the notion that Taylor is better than Jones, but reserve the ability to change this opinion after the season is over.
What I saw from this first pre-season game is that the different route concepts that this new scheme brings will be beneficial for Jones. I think this offense is going to put him in the best position he's ever had to succeed. There was one play(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIfho0ZV2JA&t=119s) where Johnson was open that Jones missed or felt that he couldn't hit, that I think was missed. Other than that, I had no issues with his play in the 1st pre-season game.
Also, in the video I linked, there's some good info on the new scheme that I think everyone's going to like along with some interesting info on the WR's. Major upgrade over Garret's scheme.
Now about Taylor, felt a little erratic at times and had some balls that should've went the other way. Taylor's a good back up, definite upgrade over Glennon, but I really don't see him supplanting Jones. We know Taylor's ceiling. I just think Jones has a slightly higher ceiling. I'm hoping it's way higher, but for now, I believe it's a little higher.
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Post by FaceAcrossTheFloor on Aug 15, 2022 13:29:02 GMT -5
to early to tell Jones played 1 quarter and his first drive was really good and the offensive line was really good on that first drive even helped out the running game. I think this offense will run a lot may be even run first. I think by Jones's second drive they were already cycling out first stringers. Tyrod looked good too solid drives and his first drive would have been good had there not been a fumble. If I'm gonna be honest All three QBs looked good I would love the Giants to stick with Webb as a third string QB you never know if 1 and 2 get hurt and Webb is like an extra coach. I remember Eli Manning always looking shacky in preseason but once the season started he looked really good and this was in Eli's prime. IMHO Jones is a good QB kind of a hybrid Eli/Peyton but the dude can run really good. Jones's biggest problem is staying healthy with a better offensive line may be Jones can avoid injury. I do think Jones will have a short leash any inconsistency in play or injury Tyrod is in there. That's why we got him. Too early? It's been 3 years. 3 years where he had arguably the worst coaching and O line in the league and a GM that had absolutely no idea how to put a team around him. So far this regime looks to be the first time this team will actually be brought into the 21st century. I think the kid deserves a bit of our patience beyond one quarter in the first pre season game of this system.
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Post by ratbastich on Aug 15, 2022 14:48:58 GMT -5
Too early? It's been 3 years. 3 years where he had arguably the worst coaching and O line in the league and a GM that had absolutely no idea how to put a team around him. So far this regime looks to be the first time this team will actually be brought into the 21st century. I think the kid deserves a bit of our patience beyond one quarter in the first pre season game of this system. I think they have to play him throughout the year and as long as he stays healthy. They need to establish whether Jones is going to be or not going to be their QB going forward and put the whole discussion to bed in their minds so they can feel comfortable moving on or committing the money to keep him.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 15, 2022 14:52:00 GMT -5
Here's the deal, and I like TT. If TT is our starter at any time this year (absent injury) then we are committed to drafting a QB in the first-round next year. That sets our rebuild back a year or two. TT is not our next franchise QB. We need to give DJ a full look this year to determine once and for all where our priorities will be in the next off season I'm sure you're right. They will give him every chance to succeed. Because they know that benching him would spell the end of his career as a Giant, and most likely his NFL career as a starting QB. That's why I support starting him at season's beginning. My only point is that right now, I think we would win more games with Taylor at QB. I certainly wouldn't bet against that. He is more seasoned and would probably make less mistakes.
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Post by allnygin on Aug 15, 2022 14:56:29 GMT -5
Mike Glennon had an 83-84 QB rating as a rookie and starter his first 2 years in Tampa Bay. Glennon had a 49 QB rating with us. ...looks like the problem with the offense last year was much greater than just the QB. Doesn't matter. The NFL and our FO will not look at it like that. Daniel needs to overcome whatever obstacles he faces and win some football games. Unfortunately, in his 4 years here it looks like he won't have it easy, and likely won't do enough for the giants to commit to him long term, however, he may still get a one year prove it deal with the giants or he'll get that elsewhere on a qb needy team. Unless he and the team really steps up or the team is losing despite daniel (which hasn't been the case) Jones isn't going to be a NY giant and that kinda sucks bc you hope a qb you draft at 6 actually translates well into the nfl. It's just another set back the giants and we as fans will have to endure.
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Post by snyder55 on Aug 15, 2022 15:00:59 GMT -5
I thought Jones looked pretty good last night. I don’t get the carryover hate. no hate, just opinions...
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Tyrell
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Post by Tyrell on Aug 15, 2022 15:06:30 GMT -5
this whole battle between an inadequate team and jones needing to step up has to meet somewhere in the middle for me. our oline has been awful and the offense in general unsupportive of jones. check. jones has done very little to step forward and 'make things happen. 'check' im very thin on patience with jones. im rooting for him still, but really sick of the same ole stuff.
tyrod, while not the guy to lead us to a superbowl, i think a lot of people dont realize, he has a winning record in the nfl, hes beaten some decent teams. i havent seen anything to show me jones is better. i see potential in jones arm and athletic ability, but i see no proof yet the guy has an instinct for the game inside the pocket, and can look off coverage or manage multiple receivers. he missed a few open guys even in NE game ( im not holding the first preseason game against him, and he wasnt too bad..but...)
very thin ice with jones. he just reminds me of us at our worst, and the canned answers and the stuck in reverse with him, however much of this is his fault or not, im just done, or nearly so. but, theres nothing else this season, theres him, and then theres the fallback on tyrod, so it is what it is this year.
id be surprised if jones breaks out, but ill also be very glad for him to prove me wrong.
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Post by snyder55 on Aug 15, 2022 15:10:49 GMT -5
leaving Jones in there as the starter is a good idea for 2 reasons, he will prove that he is our franchise QB or he will justify us drafting a QB high in next years draft. Even though I like Tyrod Taylor he is too old now to be part of the future...
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Post by allnygin on Aug 15, 2022 15:16:28 GMT -5
this whole battle between an inadequate team and jones needing to step up has to meet somewhere in the middle for me. our oline has been awful and the offense in general unsupportive of jones. check. jones has done very little to step forward and 'make things happen. 'check' im very thin on patience with jones. im rooting for him still, but really sick of the same ole stuff.tyrod, while not the guy to lead us to a superbowl, i think a lot of people dont realize, he has a winning record in the nfl, hes beaten some decent teams. i havent seen anything to show me jones is better. i see potential in jones arm and athletic ability, but i see no proof yet the guy has an instinct for the game inside the pocket, and can look off coverage or manage multiple receivers. he missed a few open guys even in NE game ( im not holding the first preseason game against him, and he wasnt too bad..but...) very thin ice with jones. he just reminds me of us at our worst, and the canned answers and the stuck in reverse with him, however much of this is his fault or not, im just done, or nearly so. but, theres nothing else this season, theres him, and then theres the fallback on tyrod, so it is what it is this year. id be surprised if jones breaks out, but ill also be very glad for him to prove me wrong. yes, I agree it hasn't been all on Jones, but the fact of the matter is time doesn't. He's got one last chance to shock the fanbase and organization. I think if he plays well despite what the rest of the offense does he has a chance, but a little one. I've said it before he really only needs about 7 to 9 wins to make it hard not for the giants to offer him something, bc once you start climbing to 7 + wins you start taking ourself out of the hunt for a qb worthy of being picked in the top 5. If i'm a betting man he's not back, but there is more than a chance, it's just going to take his good flashes he's had to become consistencies. I don't think anyone can sit here and say he's had a fair chance since being a giant, but I don't think that's the point any longer. It's still to much of a what if to commit to him being a longterm QB for the giants. One that's really risky. but having said all that Jones should be the starter the entire season, bc he should get every chance to best prove himself.
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Post by Kruunch on Aug 15, 2022 15:37:14 GMT -5
this whole battle between an inadequate team and jones needing to step up has to meet somewhere in the middle for me. our oline has been awful and the offense in general unsupportive of jones. check. jones has done very little to step forward and 'make things happen. 'check' im very thin on patience with jones. im rooting for him still, but really sick of the same ole stuff.tyrod, while not the guy to lead us to a superbowl, i think a lot of people dont realize, he has a winning record in the nfl, hes beaten some decent teams. i havent seen anything to show me jones is better. i see potential in jones arm and athletic ability, but i see no proof yet the guy has an instinct for the game inside the pocket, and can look off coverage or manage multiple receivers. he missed a few open guys even in NE game ( im not holding the first preseason game against him, and he wasnt too bad..but...) very thin ice with jones. he just reminds me of us at our worst, and the canned answers and the stuck in reverse with him, however much of this is his fault or not, im just done, or nearly so. but, theres nothing else this season, theres him, and then theres the fallback on tyrod, so it is what it is this year. id be surprised if jones breaks out, but ill also be very glad for him to prove me wrong. yes, I agree it hasn't been all on Jones, but the fact of the matter is time doesn't. He's got one last chance to shock the fanbase and organization. I think if he plays well despite what the rest of the offense does he has a chance, but a little one. I've said it before he really only needs about 7 to 9 wins to make it hard not for the giants to offer him something, bc once you start climbing to 7 + wins you start taking ourself out of the hunt for a qb worthy of being picked in the top 5. If i'm a betting man he's not back, but there is more than a chance, it's just going to take his good flashes he's had to become consistencies. I don't think anyone can sit here and say he's had a fair chance since being a giant, but I don't think that's the point any longer. It's still to much of a what if to commit to him being a longterm QB for the giants. One that's really risky. Life in the NFL isn’t fair. You think Dave Brown got a fair shake his first go around? Hell, his best receiver at the time was Chris Calloway. His second best receiver was Chris Calloway. Mention Dave Browns name around here, and expect a punch in the mouth. David Carr got drafted by the expansion Houston Texans. First time manslaughter was committed on the field, for he got the everlasting shit kicked out of him all season. So much, he couldn’t shake the deer in the headlights, trauma. The NFL is a cutthroat, result driven business. That’s why their is no such thing as a second place trophies. You’re either the best, or you suck. A quarterback, always gets to much glory, or to much blame. It comes with the territory. Jones will either prove himself worthy, or get thrown back into the water. The choice is his..
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Post by Speedman on Aug 15, 2022 15:51:37 GMT -5
Only one and this is the one. The first three didn't count? First one did second two didn't.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 15, 2022 16:20:08 GMT -5
this whole battle between an inadequate team and jones needing to step up has to meet somewhere in the middle for me. our oline has been awful and the offense in general unsupportive of jones. check. jones has done very little to step forward and 'make things happen. 'check' im very thin on patience with jones. im rooting for him still, but really sick of the same ole stuff.tyrod, while not the guy to lead us to a superbowl, i think a lot of people dont realize, he has a winning record in the nfl, hes beaten some decent teams. i havent seen anything to show me jones is better. i see potential in jones arm and athletic ability, but i see no proof yet the guy has an instinct for the game inside the pocket, and can look off coverage or manage multiple receivers. he missed a few open guys even in NE game ( im not holding the first preseason game against him, and he wasnt too bad..but...) very thin ice with jones. he just reminds me of us at our worst, and the canned answers and the stuck in reverse with him, however much of this is his fault or not, im just done, or nearly so. but, theres nothing else this season, theres him, and then theres the fallback on tyrod, so it is what it is this year. id be surprised if jones breaks out, but ill also be very glad for him to prove me wrong. yes, I agree it hasn't been all on Jones, but the fact of the matter is time doesn't. He's got one last chance to shock the fanbase and organization. I think if he plays well despite what the rest of the offense does he has a chance, but a little one. I've said it before he really only needs about 7 to 9 wins to make it hard not for the giants to offer him something, bc once you start climbing to 7 + wins you start taking ourself out of the hunt for a qb worthy of being picked in the top 5. If i'm a betting man he's not back, but there is more than a chance, it's just going to take his good flashes he's had to become consistencies. I don't think anyone can sit here and say he's had a fair chance since being a giant, but I don't think that's the point any longer. It's still to much of a what if to commit to him being a longterm QB for the giants. One that's really risky. but having said all that Jones should be the starter the entire season, bc he should get every chance to best prove himself. I agree with all of this...
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Post by GameTime on Aug 15, 2022 16:23:36 GMT -5
The first three didn't count? First one did second two didn't. sure they did because if he did well they would have counted right?
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 15, 2022 18:47:48 GMT -5
Only one and this is the one. The first three didn't count? The first year definitely counts!
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Aug 15, 2022 18:51:32 GMT -5
Simply put, if the Giants want a very high draft choice in 2023, leave DJ in no matter what. If the Giants start Tyrod they could actually end up around .500. Both scenarios end up with the Giants drafting a QB in the 2023 draft.
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miggs
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Post by miggs on Aug 15, 2022 20:12:36 GMT -5
Jones 9-11 passing today. Wouldn't know that from Giants beat writers. They don't know what the word "process" means in pro football. Nor do the Chris and Nick hosts on their podcast.
Let's see how many passes Jones throws in games before he throws an interception. None yet.
They also said that Giants are employing "vanilla" plays in pre-season games. Clueless, as each Giants play is so ten times more complicated than any play Giants ran last season.
Show some insight boys.
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Post by Rangers13 on Aug 15, 2022 20:22:11 GMT -5
Mike Glennon had an 83-84 QB rating as a rookie and starter his first 2 years in Tampa Bay. Glennon had a 49 QB rating with us. ...looks like the problem with the offense last year was much greater than just the QB. i read it was all the coaches fault. Go Jake Fromm
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 15, 2022 21:45:38 GMT -5
The first three didn't count? First one did second two didn't. Let me write that down. "When he sucks....it doesn't count". Got it.
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 16, 2022 5:53:16 GMT -5
my take is that you can throw out the first 3 years with the bath water. All that matters is this upcoming season. It's all a facet of the contract, just like the decision to keep him for this year, and decline the 5th. Either he plays well enough for the team to resign him (will have to be significantly better than what we've seen, even year 1) or we will move on.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 16, 2022 6:43:18 GMT -5
my take is that you can throw out the first 3 years with the bath water. All that matters is this upcoming season. It's all a facet of the contract, just like the decision to keep him for this year, and decline the 5th. Either he plays well enough for the team to resign him (will have to be significantly better than what we've seen, even year 1) or we will move on. while the first three years are history they can still be looked back on. But as you aid the bottom line is how he performs this season.
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