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Post by myronguyton29 on Aug 12, 2022 17:15:16 GMT -5
I think Daniel Jones should be our starter. He has the possible upside. He was the 6th pick in the draft. He deserves this one last chance. But I'm sorry, right now, August 2022, Tyrod Taylor is the better QB. He's SO much better in the pocket. He makes better decisions. He just looks like a solid NFL QB. We talk about all the different systems and coordinators that DJ has had.....well how many has Taylor had? He has a new system every year, yet he looks smooth and competent in the pocket. With DJ it still looks like a fire drill. So I support the decision to start the season with DJ. He does have a lot of tools. But I think we have a chance to win more games THIS year with Tyrod Taylor. I know he's not the future. DJ probably isn't either. But I'm OK with giving him this last chance. But I wouldn't be surprised if DJ gets supplanted by Taylor by mid season. if DJ plays so bad that he gets replaced at midseason the it might make sense to just leave him in there and let him sink or swim and we will then be playing for our draft choice place... won't hurt to
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Post by vinnie on Aug 12, 2022 17:46:20 GMT -5
Well after just rewatching only the offense in the first half, I don’t think there is that much of a “significant” difference between Tyrod and Jones which isn’t a good thing for our future. A few notables though, Tyrod does have more mobility and did look more comfortable. Tyrod didn’t have the luxury of playing with the starters which would have made a significant difference IMO. Jones never completed a pass over 10 yards against BACK UPS and some fans are talking about how good he looked which is mind boggling to me. I can’t think of one starter (or higher caliber back ups) that wouldn’t have completed those exact same passes but whatever. I think if the roles were reversed, Tyrod would have looked better playing behind the starters and DJ would have struggled much more than Tyrod with the back ups on offense due to his lack of mobility and struggles with pocket awareness. I know that’s obvious but I feel it’s extremely overlooked when comparing the two. We’ll obviously know a lot more in about a month. Hopefully we’ll know a little more next week if Cincy plays their starters on defense. *Opinion subject to change on a weekly basis and hopefully it does ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6149188/images/xJeALGJYlloJpFYUnsUs.png) very well put and about as plain as it can be Jumping way ahead here but if Jones doesn’t work out, I was thinking what they would do if there were 3 QB’s they liked and all were taken. Would they take a flyer on someone else, roll with Taylor for another year which would essentially extend the rebuild at least 2 more years into 2025 because it’s doubtful a rookie QB would come in and take us to the playoffs, or go the FA route? Although if we did wait to draft a QB until 2024 then all the pieces should be in place by that point which would make it ideal for a QB on a rookie contract. Just food for thought, long ways to go before that becomes a reality.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 12, 2022 18:10:06 GMT -5
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Post by ocgiant on Aug 12, 2022 19:10:22 GMT -5
TT solid back up, DJ did okay. The fact there is quite a bit of banter about DJ's performance at this point with one pre-season game. This just makes me think more and more that the Giants are going QB in the first round next year. In terms of TT replacing DJ, I would think it would be at least 6 games before that would happen, IMO. You think the banter here about DJs two series in a preseason game is an indication the Giants org is going to go QB in next year's draft? It's not just about the 2 series... it's about everything I see, hear and read which makes me believe Giants will go QB next season. No extension and I have not heard the Coach or GM say if DJ plays lights out he is the Giants franchise QB. I think they want thier own guy as the future QB of the Giants. Now, I agree you cannot judge based on just one pre-season game. But after 4 seasons, I start to think that we should know whether DJ is the guy or not by now the longer it goes undecided the more I am inclined they go QB first round.
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miggs
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Post by miggs on Aug 12, 2022 19:52:25 GMT -5
Taylor is nowhere as good as Jones. Coaching staff knows that even though some fans don't.
]Taylor is more familiar with Daboll's system and thus can make better reads of defenses on various plays. That's now. Won't be even close when the season starts.
]Same as a student moving from one bad school to an excellent one, and to learning a new and far better and more complex system. It takes time for the new student to get up to date. Glad some Giant fans get that.
I acknowledge that Taylor can make some physical moves when the line breaks down in protection on pass plays that Jones can't do. That not likely to change. But if line breaks down consistently on pass plays, it won't matter who's the QB.
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Post by Roswell on Aug 12, 2022 20:08:28 GMT -5
You think the banter here about DJs two series in a preseason game is an indication the Giants org is going to go QB in next year's draft? It's not just about the 2 series... it's about everything I see, hear and read which makes me believe Giants will go QB next season. No extension and I have not heard the Coach or GM say if DJ plays lights out he is the Giants franchise QB. I think they want thier own guy as the future QB of the Giants. Now, I agree you cannot judge based on just one pre-season game. But ofter 4 seasons, I start to think that we should know whether DJ is the guy or not by now the longer it goes undecided the more I am inclined they go QB first round. 3 seasons
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Post by Roswell on Aug 12, 2022 20:10:26 GMT -5
I thought Jones looked pretty good last night.
I don’t get the carryover hate.
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Post by DJones19 on Aug 12, 2022 20:16:34 GMT -5
I said the same thing about the INTs in the gameday thread. I was starting to think I was losing my mind when Michael Irving and others on Twitter were saying how much Tyrod outplayed Jones. Tyrod looks great at extending plays and playing backyard ball though... there is value in that. I can see him picking up chuck yardage plays by extending them after coverage breaks down.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 12, 2022 21:06:07 GMT -5
You think the banter here about DJs two series in a preseason game is an indication the Giants org is going to go QB in next year's draft? It's not just about the 2 series... it's about everything I see, hear and read which makes me believe Giants will go QB next season. No extension and I have not heard the Coach or GM say if DJ plays lights out he is the Giants franchise QB. I think they want thier own guy as the future QB of the Giants. Now, I agree you cannot judge based on just one pre-season game. But after 4 seasons, I start to think that we should know whether DJ is the guy or not by now the longer it goes undecided the more I am inclined they go QB first round. Hey OC....I would bet Schoen and Daboll would totally dig it if Jones got it done this season. If they want their own guy the thats another two yeas set back even if it works!! Turning Jones into a franchise QB is just as good if not better than picking their own especially with all the failure news surrounding Jones. They dont have to say anything to Jones. He knows if he finally gets it and does really well they will at least tag him next season. Jones has a steep hill to climb for sure. Also I havent heard too much on the Giants def going QB next draft. A couple of articles about Levis and thats it.
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Post by Speedman on Aug 12, 2022 22:53:09 GMT -5
Most of Taylor’s passes looked terrible.
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 13, 2022 5:14:53 GMT -5
neither of them lit it up, but weren't awful either. It was the first preseason game, I'm reading little from it. Let's see where we are after the next 2 as we prep for the ones that count. I'll worry when it's time to worry, lol.
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Post by giantsmets on Aug 13, 2022 6:19:33 GMT -5
Exactly what I saw with Tyrod - scratching my head at all the positive comments for Tyrod when his accuracy was well below par, then Jones misses one pass on an overthrow in the flat and there are posts on how terrible he is. I simply don't get the hate for Jones and the lack of understanding that the last two years the team around him was as bad as it could be in the NFL with an absolutely terrible offensive line and an injury plagued receiver group and no running game. The team will be so much better off if Jones becomes the QB in 2023.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 13, 2022 8:02:00 GMT -5
Exactly what I saw with Tyrod - scratching my head at all the positive comments for Tyrod when his accuracy was well below par, then Jones misses one pass on an overthrow in the flat and there are posts on how terrible he is. I simply don't get the hate for Jones and the lack of understanding that the last two years the team around him was as bad as it could be in the NFL with an absolutely terrible offensive line and an injury plagued receiver group and no running game. The team will be so much better off if Jones becomes the QB in 2023. I don’t get how people don’t understand that Jones got to play with the starters against back ups and Tyrod had to play with back ups vs a lot of the same back ups that Jones faced with the starters yet their completion percentage was identical and Tyrod threw twice as many passes. Surprised even Simms doesn’t mention it, it’s kind of an important factor. If our back up defense got smoked by another teams starting offense would it be fair to say our defense sucks? That’s what’s happening here but it’s the other way around. If the roles were reversed, I bet Jones would have done worse than Tyrod because he would have been sacked under pressure and wouldn’t get the ball out as quick. If anything, considering all factors, they were identical which isn’t good when comparing a possible future franchise QB to a back up. It’s not hate for Jones, it’s the truth and I think we all want Jones to be the answer but reality says otherwise.
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Post by cdngfan on Aug 13, 2022 8:48:44 GMT -5
There is no scenario where it’s “better” for us if Jones sucks.
I’m sure Daboll and Schoen really want him to work out. He doesn’t have to live up to his draft position, if he’s the equivalent of Fitzpatrick then he can get offered a skimpy contract to see if he can continue to improve with more familiarity in this system.
But if he doesn’t, or thinks his market value is worth more than what he’s offered, Taylor is our bridge until we find our QB.
I really want him to turn out. But if he doesn’t, he doesn’t.
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redeyejedi
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Post by redeyejedi on Aug 13, 2022 8:48:52 GMT -5
I'm going to get scalded to death with this hot take thread... I've never understood what a "hot take" is. Seems like stupid, pop culture labeling to me. I'm just posting what I think. Funny, I was thinking about this the other day. Some ESPN radio host announced its time for a hot take and played some stupid radio sound effect after it. I don't know why, but it annoyed the shit out of me. As far as Jones, I agree with you. I don't think he is the answer. He has the physical profile to be a great QB, but the same issues he had in Year 1 are still there. He holds the ball to long, he has poor anticipation, and puts to much air under his throws. My gut is we are drafting a QB next year
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Post by Kruunch on Aug 13, 2022 11:25:58 GMT -5
There is no scenario where it’s “better” for us if Jones sucks. I’m sure Daboll and Schoen really want him to work out. He doesn’t have to live up to his draft position, if he’s the equivalent of Fitzpatrick then he can get offered a skimpy contract to see if he can continue to improve with more familiarity in this system. But if he doesn’t, or thinks his market value is worth more than what he’s offered, Taylor is our bridge until we find our QB. I really want him to turn out. But if he doesn’t, he doesn’t. That’s called settling.. If Jones is no better than Ryan Fitzpatrick, we’re screwed in every position. And that dreaded, “we can get him on a cheap deal.” Cheap contracts, get you cheap results. Fans have come to the lazy realization, that if Jones shits the bed. We will never recover, and be doomed for the rest of time. No, we will go back to the drawing board, and find his replacement.
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Post by ocgiant on Aug 13, 2022 11:32:44 GMT -5
It's not just about the 2 series... it's about everything I see, hear and read which makes me believe Giants will go QB next season. No extension and I have not heard the Coach or GM say if DJ plays lights out he is the Giants franchise QB. I think they want thier own guy as the future QB of the Giants. Now, I agree you cannot judge based on just one pre-season game. But after 4 seasons, I start to think that we should know whether DJ is the guy or not by now the longer it goes undecided the more I am inclined they go QB first round. Hey OC....I would bet Schoen and Daboll would totally dig it if Jones got it done this season. If they want their own guy the thats another two yeas set back even if it works!! Turning Jones into a franchise QB is just as good if not better than picking their own especially with all the failure news surrounding Jones. They dont have to say anything to Jones. He knows if he finally gets it and does really well they will at least tag him next season. Jones has a steep hill to climb for sure. Also I havent heard too much on the Giants def going QB next draft. A couple of articles about Levis and thats it. It's a good point, if DJ works out I am fine with it. He's a solid team guy I just want to see him get over that hump that shows us he is convincingly the Giants QB that gets this team to the next level. As to next season, it's the impression I get with nothing I can really substantiate (articles etc.) just blips on who might go after QBs next season and the Giants mentioned as a team that may pick one. If Schoen/Dabol are thinking of a QB for next season that would be under tight wraps at this point since it would too disruptive at this point in the season . So this all circles back to DJ going out there and proving the neysayers wrong and making us not only relieved but happy it worked out so then the Giants go after another positon of need instead.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 13, 2022 11:44:12 GMT -5
There is no scenario where it’s “better” for us if Jones sucks. I’m sure Daboll and Schoen really want him to work out. He doesn’t have to live up to his draft position, if he’s the equivalent of Fitzpatrick then he can get offered a skimpy contract to see if he can continue to improve with more familiarity in this system. But if he doesn’t, or thinks his market value is worth more than what he’s offered, Taylor is our bridge until we find our QB. I really want him to turn out. But if he doesn’t, he doesn’t. That’s called settling.. If Jones is no better than Ryan Fitzpatrick, we’re screwed in every position. And that dreaded, “we can get him on a cheap deal.” Cheap contracts, get you cheap results. Fans have come to the lazy realization, that if Jones shits the bed. We will never recover, and be doomed for the rest of time. No, we will go back to the drawing board, and find his replacement. Well on the other hand we paid up for Nate and KG. That didn't work either.
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Post by Kruunch on Aug 13, 2022 11:51:34 GMT -5
That’s called settling.. If Jones is no better than Ryan Fitzpatrick, we’re screwed in every position. And that dreaded, “we can get him on a cheap deal.” Cheap contracts, get you cheap results. Fans have come to the lazy realization, that if Jones shits the bed. We will never recover, and be doomed for the rest of time. No, we will go back to the drawing board, and find his replacement. Well on the other hand we paid up for Nate and KG. That didn't work either. Point is, you get what you pay for. You aren’t going to the store to buy filk, and think you’re getting a deal for half the price of milk.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 13, 2022 12:15:03 GMT -5
Hey OC....I would bet Schoen and Daboll would totally dig it if Jones got it done this season. If they want their own guy the thats another two yeas set back even if it works!! Turning Jones into a franchise QB is just as good if not better than picking their own especially with all the failure news surrounding Jones. They dont have to say anything to Jones. He knows if he finally gets it and does really well they will at least tag him next season. Jones has a steep hill to climb for sure. Also I havent heard too much on the Giants def going QB next draft. A couple of articles about Levis and thats it. It's a good point, if DJ works out I am fine with it. He's a solid team guy I just want to see him get over that hump that shows us he is convincingly the Giants QB that gets this team to the next level. As to next season, it's the impression I get with nothing I can really substantiate (articles etc.) just blips on who might go after QBs next season and the Giants mentioned as a team that may pick one. If Schoen/Dabol are thinking of a QB for next season that would be under tight wraps at this point since it would too disruptive at this point in the season . So this all circles back to DJ going out there and proving the neysayers wrong and making us not only relieved but happy it worked out so then the Giants go after another positon of need instead. Bottom line for sure
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Post by cdngfan on Aug 13, 2022 12:24:00 GMT -5
There is no scenario where it’s “better” for us if Jones sucks. I’m sure Daboll and Schoen really want him to work out. He doesn’t have to live up to his draft position, if he’s the equivalent of Fitzpatrick then he can get offered a skimpy contract to see if he can continue to improve with more familiarity in this system. But if he doesn’t, or thinks his market value is worth more than what he’s offered, Taylor is our bridge until we find our QB. I really want him to turn out. But if he doesn’t, he doesn’t. That’s called settling.. If Jones is no better than Ryan Fitzpatrick, we’re screwed in every position. And that dreaded, “we can get him on a cheap deal.” Cheap contracts, get you cheap results. Fans have come to the lazy realization, that if Jones shits the bed. We will never recover, and be doomed for the rest of time. No, we will go back to the drawing board, and find his replacement. We don’t really have that different an opinion. If the FO is willing to bet their future with the Giants on QB in the draft next year, go get him. To me the point is, most likely, that Schoen will be defined by whatever QB he drafts in the first round. And the fact is that the overwhelming majority of QBs drafted in the first don’t sign 2nd contracts with the team that drafted them. Jones’ production as a QB is not good, but he’s absolutely an average 1st rd QB. He’s not good enough to warrant a 2nd contract from the team that drafted him. Like most 1st Rd QBs Schoen will always be up against the clock. Can he turn around the team enough to give him time to find a Josh Allen. A lot of fans just expect us to draft a QB is Jones doesn’t cut it this year. But that only makes sense if they’re willing to be their futures on one of maybe 4 QBs that go in the first round? If one of those 4 QBs isn’t worthy of that bet, then you buy time. That’s either a cut-able Jones contract or Taylor. But I wouldn’t bet my career on the next 4 dudes that are available when I’m looking for a new employee. I’ll find a stop gap until I find the guy worthy of that bet.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 13, 2022 12:31:58 GMT -5
I think Daniel Jones should be our starter. He has the possible upside. He was the 6th pick in the draft. He deserves this one last chance. But I'm sorry, right now, August 2022, Tyrod Taylor is the better QB. He's SO much better in the pocket. He makes better decisions. He just looks like a solid NFL QB. We talk about all the different systems and coordinators that DJ has had.....well how many has Taylor had? He has a new system every year, yet he looks smooth and competent in the pocket. With DJ it still looks like a fire drill. So I support the decision to start the season with DJ. He does have a lot of tools. But I think we have a chance to win more games THIS year with Tyrod Taylor. I know he's not the future. DJ probably isn't either. But I'm OK with giving him this last chance. But I wouldn't be surprised if DJ gets supplanted by Taylor by mid season. to early to tell Jones played 1 quarter and his first drive was really good and the offensive line was really good on that first drive even helped out the running game. I think this offense will run a lot may be even run first. I think by Jones's second drive they were already cycling out first stringers. Tyrod looked good too solid drives and his first drive would have been good had there not been a fumble. If I'm gonna be honest All three QBs looked good I would love the Giants to stick with Webb as a third string QB you never know if 1 and 2 get hurt and Webb is like an extra coach. I remember Eli Manning always looking shacky in preseason but once the season started he looked really good and this was in Eli's prime. IMHO Jones is a good QB kind of a hybrid Eli/Peyton but the dude can run really good. Jones's biggest problem is staying healthy with a better offensive line may be Jones can avoid injury. I do think Jones will have a short leash any inconsistency in play or injury Tyrod is in there. That's why we got him. Too early? It's been 3 years.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 13, 2022 12:33:59 GMT -5
It's a good point, if DJ works out I am fine with it. He's a solid team guy I just want to see him get over that hump that shows us he is convincingly the Giants QB that gets this team to the next level. As to next season, it's the impression I get with nothing I can really substantiate (articles etc.) just blips on who might go after QBs next season and the Giants mentioned as a team that may pick one. If Schoen/Dabol are thinking of a QB for next season that would be under tight wraps at this point since it would too disruptive at this point in the season . So this all circles back to DJ going out there and proving the neysayers wrong and making us not only relieved but happy it worked out so then the Giants go after another positon of need instead. Bottom line for sure Speaking for myself, for DJ to prove he’s worthy of a long term contract he needs to be consistently good for 2 years in a row. I realize the tag for a QB isn’t cheap but I’d rather not take an expensive gamble on a one year wonder (kind of like his rookie year).
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 13, 2022 12:44:12 GMT -5
Speaking for myself, for DJ to prove he’s worthy of a long term contract he needs to be consistently good for 2 years in a row. I realize the tag for a QB isn’t cheap but I’d rather not take an expensive gamble on a one year wonder (kind of like his rookie year). I actually think that is what will happen Look at all the recent mistakes of qbs getting a long term after 1 good year that blew up in their team's face (Wentz and Goff)
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 13, 2022 13:00:53 GMT -5
Speaking for myself, for DJ to prove he’s worthy of a long term contract he needs to be consistently good for 2 years in a row. I realize the tag for a QB isn’t cheap but I’d rather not take an expensive gamble on a one year wonder (kind of like his rookie year). I actually think that is what will happen Look at all the recent mistakes of qbs getting a long term after 1 good year that blew up in their team's face (Wentz and Goff) that's a favorable outcome for us. It's still not clear if he will play well enough for that, let's hope like hell!!
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Post by Kruunch on Aug 13, 2022 13:02:26 GMT -5
That’s called settling.. If Jones is no better than Ryan Fitzpatrick, we’re screwed in every position. And that dreaded, “we can get him on a cheap deal.” Cheap contracts, get you cheap results. Fans have come to the lazy realization, that if Jones shits the bed. We will never recover, and be doomed for the rest of time. No, we will go back to the drawing board, and find his replacement. We don’t really have that different an opinion. If the FO is willing to bet their future with the Giants on QB in the draft next year, go get him. To me the point is, most likely, that Schoen will be defined by whatever QB he drafts in the first round. And the fact is that the overwhelming majority of QBs drafted in the first don’t sign 2nd contracts with the team that drafted them. Jones’ production as a QB is not good, but he’s absolutely an average 1st rd QB. He’s not good enough to warrant a 2nd contract from the team that drafted him. Like most 1st Rd QBs Schoen will always be up against the clock. Can he turn around the team enough to give him time to find a Josh Allen. A lot of fans just expect us to draft a QB is Jones doesn’t cut it this year. But that only makes sense if they’re willing to be their futures on one of maybe 4 QBs that go in the first round? If one of those 4 QBs isn’t worthy of that bet, then you buy time. That’s either a cut-able Jones contract or Taylor. But I wouldn’t bet my career on the next 4 dudes that are available when I’m looking for a new employee. I’ll find a stop gap until I find the guy worthy of that bet. Taylor getting that second year not only protects us, but gives us options. Normally, new management wants their guys, meaning they want to buy their own groceries. Besides the one percenters, the elite quarterbacks of the league. No newly hired head coach and general manager wants to be saddled with someone else’s hand-me-downs. Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll are on the clock. There is no such thing as mulligans, and do overs. Your career hinges on the backs of the players. If they fail, you’re unemployed. And from the looks of the ever changing league, second chances don’t come around so often. See Jerry Reese.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 13, 2022 13:08:01 GMT -5
Speaking for myself, for DJ to prove he’s worthy of a long term contract he needs to be consistently good for 2 years in a row. I realize the tag for a QB isn’t cheap but I’d rather not take an expensive gamble on a one year wonder (kind of like his rookie year). Thats what they will do if Jones achieves whatever goals Daboll and Schoen have set for him. Jones would be thrilled if played well enough to earn a tag for 2023.
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Post by giants8493 on Aug 13, 2022 14:15:58 GMT -5
I think Jones is better then Taylor but Taylor is better then Webb.
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Post by snyder55 on Aug 13, 2022 15:23:47 GMT -5
Exactly what I saw with Tyrod - scratching my head at all the positive comments for Tyrod when his accuracy was well below par, then Jones misses one pass on an overthrow in the flat and there are posts on how terrible he is. I simply don't get the hate for Jones and the lack of understanding that the last two years the team around him was as bad as it could be in the NFL with an absolutely terrible offensive line and an injury plagued receiver group and no running game. The team will be so much better off if Jones becomes the QB in 2023. I don’t get how people don’t understand that Jones got to play with the starters against back ups and Tyrod had to play with back ups vs a lot of the same back ups that Jones faced with the starters yet their completion percentage was identical and Tyrod threw twice as many passes. Surprised even Simms doesn’t mention it, it’s kind of an important factor. If our back up defense got smoked by another teams starting offense would it be fair to say our defense sucks? That’s what’s happening here but it’s the other way around. If the roles were reversed, I bet Jones would have done worse than Tyrod because he would have been sacked under pressure and wouldn’t get the ball out as quick. If anything, considering all factors, they were identical which isn’t good when comparing a possible future franchise QB to a back up. It’s not hate for Jones, it’s the truth and I think we all want Jones to be the answer but reality says otherwise. IMO Simms is in way over his head and wouldn't even have a job if it weren't for his father...
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Aug 13, 2022 18:43:12 GMT -5
Tyrod Taylor looked exactly like a backup QB last night. Glad we have him, hope he never has to take a snap. Yes, Tyrod is better, much better…..and Tyrod isn’t great.
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