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Post by TEM on Jan 20, 2024 9:30:38 GMT -5
In the draft, do what we can to trade back. It's never easy, but our roster can use the additional picks and we could draft a QB like Nix later in the 1st. Have Nix sit behind the veteran FA while he learns the playbook and gets up to speed. Even if he were to bust, we can move on in two years and use the draft capital we saved by not trading up to keep building.
This scenario would also allow us to sit Jones in 2024 removing any risk of paying him an additional $30M in 2025. Seems like a decent long term option for us if we can somehow pull it off.
I think Nix or McCarthy maybe both will get pushed up top 10 to 15 so many QB needy teams us the Saints the Seahawks just to name a few trying to move down might not be so easy. How does a player's skill set increase after the conclusion of the season? If anything, it should go down if that player interviews as a moron. The film does not change. A FO can ignore a Players shortcoming in the film but that does not in any way dismiss them. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 20, 2024 9:40:44 GMT -5
I don't think that either Penix or McCarthy helped themselves last night. Penix in his bowl game showed every reason some don't think his game will translate to the NFL successfully he is a true statue and when the pressure arrives the accuracy and decision making gets pretty bad. Problem is probably because of the Knee injuries he has no answers defenses in the NFL are high end athletes they can move be interesting to see where he goes I'm thinking he might really fall like Howell did 3 to 5. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 20, 2024 9:57:08 GMT -5
I think Nix or McCarthy maybe both will get pushed up top 10 to 15 so many QB needy teams us the Saints the Seahawks just to name a few trying to move down might not be so easy. How does a player's skill set increase after the conclusion of the season? If anything, it should go down if that player interviews as a moron. The film does not change. A FO can ignore a Players shortcoming in the film but that does not in any way dismiss them. We have seen a million times QBs that should be mid round picks rise to top 5 and QBs that should be bottom 3rd to top of second rise to the middle of the round. If a coach and OC think they have the work ethic and high end traits they will rise if thye don't they will stay put from all indications McCarthy and Nix have the desire to be the best and each have the arm and legs to move up boards. I can't speak on how they process but both seem to have a lot Jones issue post snap processing thats n their scouting reports, now if a team brings a QB along correctly can that be improved, Probably it would more than likely mean sitting for a year and learning. Jones was considered a mid 1st rounder supposedly by the NFL he had the legs and smarts, a lot of people like to say second round didn't not here that from NFL people Jeremiah and Gruden and Gruden who coach the senior bowl both said first rd. Giants blew it can't say he would have been a top 10 QB for sure but the situation was not even close to being conducive to bring a young QB along. |
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Post by TEM on Jan 20, 2024 10:05:39 GMT -5
How does a player's skill set increase after the conclusion of the season? If anything, it should go down if that player interviews as a moron. The film does not change. A FO can ignore a Players shortcoming in the film but that does not in any way dismiss them. that should be bottom 3rd to top of second rise to the middle of the round. If a coach and OC think they have the work ethic and high end traits they will rise if thye don't they will stay put from all indications McCarthy and Nix have the desire to be the best and each have the arm and legs to move up boards. I can't speak on how they process but both seem to have a lot Jones issue post snap processing thats n their scouting reports, now if a team brings a QB along correctly can that be improved, Probably it would more than likely mean sitting for a year and learning. Jones was considered a mid 1st rounder supposedly by the NFL he had the legs and smarts, a lot of people like to say second round didn't not here that from NFL people Jeremiah and Gruden and Gruden who coach the senior bowl both said first rd. Giants blew it can't say he would have been a top 10 QB for sure but the situation was not even close to being conducive to bring a young QB along. And yet FO's have not learned that lesson. The average QB success out of each class in the cap era is 1. If it was more than that. QB's would not be so coveted in the top of the draft. If QBs were worth the top of draft picks (they actually worth their drat designation) A team would need on every 10 years. The definition of Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same results. The definition of insanity is believing you are above the results. |
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Post by piddy283 on Jan 20, 2024 10:31:09 GMT -5
In the draft, do what we can to trade back. It's never easy, but our roster can use the additional picks and we could draft a QB like Nix later in the 1st. Have Nix sit behind the veteran FA while he learns the playbook and gets up to speed. Even if he were to bust, we can move on in two years and use the draft capital we saved by not trading up to keep building.
This scenario would also allow us to sit Jones in 2024 removing any risk of paying him an additional $30M in 2025. Seems like a decent long term option for us if we can somehow pull it off.
I think Nix or McCarthy maybe both will get pushed up top 10 to 15 so many QB needy teams us the Saints the Seahawks just to name a few trying to move down might not be so easy. Yea, happens every year. I think McCarthy and Nix should go later in the first, or maybe even early 2nd, but I think at least one ends up going top-10. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 20, 2024 10:32:26 GMT -5
We have seen a million times QBs that should be mid round picks rise to top 5 and QBs that should be bottom 3rd to top of second rise to the middle of the round. If a coach and OC think they have the work ethic and high end traits they will rise if thye don't they will stay put from all indications McCarthy and Nix have the desire to be the best and each have the arm and legs to move up boards. I can't speak on how they process but both seem to have a lot Jones issue post snap processing thats n their scouting reports, now if a team brings a QB along correctly can that be improved, Probably it would more than likely mean sitting for a year and learning. Jones was considered a mid 1st rounder supposedly by the NFL he had the legs and smarts, a lot of people like to say second round didn't not here that from NFL people Jeremiah and Gruden and Gruden who coach the senior bowl both said first rd. Giants blew it can't say he would have been a top 10 QB for sure but the situation was not even close to being conducive to bring a young QB along. And yet FO's have not learned that lesson. The average QB success out of each class in the cap era is 1. I agree it is a supply and demand issue, I think the biggest lesson is when you draft a traitsy QB that players needs development so right there a team gives away 1 or 2 years of that cheap rookie deal in turn they have a better chance of getting the next Mahomes or Rodgers we will se about Love. Then their are guys like Allen who wasn't even an NFL QB as far as technique accuracy and processing but the Bills made a perfect nest to grow him in getting him pieces along the way and counting on their interview where he must have convinced them that he was gonna be 24-7 365 working on his craft and correcting everything. Going into year 3 they weren't sure he was the guy. At the end of the day the Giants are probably in a position to stick to there board and build this roster up for when the do get a guy in here the team is ready and waiting, not sure they are gonna have the chance to get the top 2 or 3 in this draft. |
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Post by TEM on Jan 20, 2024 10:34:17 GMT -5
And yet FO's have not learned that lesson. The average QB success out of each class in the cap era is 1. I agree it is a supply and demand issue, I think the biggest lesson is when you draft a traitsy QB that players needs development so right there a team gives away 1 or 2 years of that cheap rookie deal in turn they have a better chance of getting the next Mahomes or Rodgers we will se about Love. Then their are guys like Allen who wasn't even an NFL QB as far as technique accuracy and processing but the Bills made a perfect nest to grow him in getting him pieces along the way and counting on their interview where he must have convinced them that he was gonna be 24-7 365 working on his craft and correcting everything. Going into year 3 they weren't sure he was the guy. At the end of the day the Giants are probably in a position to stick to there board and build this roster up for when the do get a guy in here the team is ready and waiting, not sure they are gonna have the chance to get the top 2 or 3 in this draft.Yep and we have zero say in it. |
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Post by piddy283 on Jan 20, 2024 10:35:16 GMT -5
I think Nix or McCarthy maybe both will get pushed up top 10 to 15 so many QB needy teams us the Saints the Seahawks just to name a few trying to move down might not be so easy. How does a player's skill set increase after the conclusion of the season? If anything, it should go down if that player interviews as a moron. The film does not change. A FO can ignore a Players shortcoming in the film but that does not in any way dismiss them. It happens year. And it’s not necessarily the players stock going up, it’s the media catching up to all the various prospects. Teams big boards likely don’t fluctuate like the media’s. |
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Post by TEM on Jan 20, 2024 10:38:27 GMT -5
How does a player's skill set increase after the conclusion of the season? If anything, it should go down if that player interviews as a moron. The film does not change. A FO can ignore a Players shortcoming in the film but that does not in any way dismiss them. It happens year. And it’s not necessarily the players stock going up, it’s the media catching up to all the various prospects. Teams big boards likely don’t fluctuate like the media’s. IDK As I said film does not lie. After the draft. The QB roll over rates proves the film to be the all-seeing oracle. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 20, 2024 10:39:32 GMT -5
I think Nix or McCarthy maybe both will get pushed up top 10 to 15 so many QB needy teams us the Saints the Seahawks just to name a few trying to move down might not be so easy. Yea, happens every year. I think McCarthy and Nix should go later in the first, or maybe even early 2nd, but I think at least one ends up going top-10. When I read their scouting reports they sound like Jones from the processing standpoint, are the Giants ready to do this right if they draft a guy who is gonna need time and supporting cast that won't sink them before they get started. In some ways if they are gonna take a shot on a traitsy type of guy this is a good spot to do it sit the kid behind Jones let him see it and learn in the room in the film room, also give them 1 more draft and freeagency period to build the team up around him. Or they can just build this team out one more year and try next year in that case Im in favor of bringing Taylor back and making it an open competition. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 20, 2024 10:42:01 GMT -5
I agree it is a supply and demand issue, I think the biggest lesson is when you draft a traitsy QB that players needs development so right there a team gives away 1 or 2 years of that cheap rookie deal in turn they have a better chance of getting the next Mahomes or Rodgers we will se about Love. Then their are guys like Allen who wasn't even an NFL QB as far as technique accuracy and processing but the Bills made a perfect nest to grow him in getting him pieces along the way and counting on their interview where he must have convinced them that he was gonna be 24-7 365 working on his craft and correcting everything. Going into year 3 they weren't sure he was the guy. At the end of the day the Giants are probably in a position to stick to there board and build this roster up for when the do get a guy in here the team is ready and waiting, not sure they are gonna have the chance to get the top 2 or 3 in this draft.Yep and we have zero say in it. We just wait and watch then half the board will love what they do and the other half will hate it life as a Giants fan the last 11 -12 years |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 20, 2024 10:52:46 GMT -5
Getting harder and harder to see us taking a QB qith pick number 6. We have 3 QB needy teams picking 1, 2 and 3 and it is hard to imagine those teams (a) passing up on a QB or (b) trading out of their pick. That would put us in the position of taking the 4th best QB at pick number 6, which I just can't see Schoen doing. I think it's more likely that we (1) trade back a few picks and select McCarthy/Nix after acquiring some more draft capital; or (2) draft Rome/Nabors at 6 and then trade back into the first for McCarthy/Nix. I like this the only issue is the teams trying trade up more than likely could be looking for a QB Atlanta the Saints Vikings Seattle just to name a few |
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Post by Fletch842 on Jan 20, 2024 11:09:07 GMT -5
Yep and we have zero say in it. We just wait and watch then half the board will love what they do and the other half will hate it life as a Giants fan the last 11 -12 years you forgot about the contingent that will hate it before it even occurs...  |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 20, 2024 13:11:42 GMT -5
We just wait and watch then half the board will love what they do and the other half will hate it life as a Giants fan the last 11 -12 years you forgot about the contingent that will hate it before it even occurs... Waiting to put their stamp of disapproval on it  |
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Post by piddy283 on Jan 27, 2024 2:20:37 GMT -5
Pretty damn impressive….
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 27, 2024 11:30:35 GMT -5
He can play USC didn't have much but him and to make things worse he was in a 1 read offense if it was covered it was on him to get them out of it. He is gonna be a heck of a pro as long as who ever drafts him brings him along right. Needs to learn a pro offense. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 27, 2024 11:32:37 GMT -5
Don't think he gets by Chicago if they trade the pick we should be in line with an Accorsi type offer after that I'm waiting. |
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Post by TEM on Jan 28, 2024 10:52:32 GMT -5
This is my las post in this thread.
You all know my thoughts about this class.
But there is also this.
You guys have faith in the GM that gave Jones a big contract and the HC the believed DeVito was a competent enough QB to play in the NFL.... to pick a franchise QB? You want these guys to pick the next NY Giants QB? Really....Ok I guess.
I have no faith in this QB class or the Daboll's and Schoen's ability to make a qualitative decision on who should be behind the center.
I have said my peace in this thread.
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Post by piddy283 on Jan 28, 2024 15:36:36 GMT -5
This is my las post in this thread. You all know my thoughts about this class. But there is also this. You guys have faith in the GM that gave Jones a big contract and the HC the believed DeVito was a competent enough QB to play in the NFL.... to pick a franchise QB? You want these guys to pick the next NY Giants QB? Really....Ok I guess. I have no faith in this QB class or the Daboll's and Schoen's ability to make a qualitative decision on who should be behind the center. I have said my peace in this thread. lol….ok. |
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Post by TCHOF on Jan 28, 2024 20:19:10 GMT -5
What if we sign a solid Guard, move Neal to guard and took OT Joe Alt from ND at #6? That’s how you build a bully. (This is presuming that the top 3 QB’s are gone when we pick)
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Post by Roswell on Jan 28, 2024 23:07:58 GMT -5
What if we sign a solid Guard, move Neal to guard and took OT Joe Alt from ND at #6? That’s how you build a bully. (This is presuming that the top 3 QB’s are gone when we pick) That’s exactly what they should do. Fix the line, then they have a chance to develop a QB. This cart before the horse stuff rarely works. The new guy is just going to get hurt without real protection. |
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Post by piddy283 on Jan 29, 2024 4:59:03 GMT -5
What if we sign a solid Guard, move Neal to guard and took OT Joe Alt from ND at #6? That’s how you build a bully. (This is presuming that the top 3 QB’s are gone when we pick) I’m a fan of the idea but my concern with the two OTs is they both play LT. At least that’s what I’ve heard, I haven’t watched any film. Maybe they can slide to RT, but we’re seeing with Neal that it’s not a guarantee. In terms of acquiring an OG, this needs to be a priority. There are supposed to be a couple studs available so let’s spend some money and make it happen. Moving Neal inside is very intriguing to me. If the new OL coach decides he doesn’t have what it takes to play RT I’d love to see him playing alongside Thomas at LG. Those two would be fun to watch in the run game. Thomas - Neal - JMS - FA - Alt Looks interesting on paper. |
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Post by Fletch842 on Jan 29, 2024 7:31:59 GMT -5
What if we sign a solid Guard, move Neal to guard and took OT Joe Alt from ND at #6? That’s how you build a bully. (This is presuming that the top 3 QB’s are gone when we pick) I’m a fan of the idea but my concern with the two OTs is they both play LT. At least that’s what I’ve heard, I haven’t watched any film. Maybe they can slide to RT, but we’re seeing with Neal that it’s not a guarantee. In terms of acquiring an OG, this needs to be a priority. There are supposed to be a couple studs available so let’s spend some money and make it happen. Moving Neal inside is very intriguing to me. If the new OL coach decides he doesn’t have what it takes to play RT I’d love to see him playing alongside Thomas at LG. Those two would be fun to watch in the run game. Thomas - Neal - JMS - FA - Alt Looks interesting on paper. Neal has to be healthy before they move him anywhere. That has been as big a problem for him as anything else so far. |
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Post by imgrate on Jan 29, 2024 11:23:24 GMT -5
What if we sign a solid Guard, move Neal to guard and took OT Joe Alt from ND at #6? That’s how you build a bully. (This is presuming that the top 3 QB’s are gone when we pick) Yea, I said something similar in another thread recently.. we’re not in a good spot this offseason, draft slot wise and cap wise. Right now I’m leaning towards sign Onwenu (though, he might not become available as NE has plenty of money to spend), draft Alt. Then if McCarthy or Daniels (or whatever QB you like) slips to late first, trade up and grab him so you have 5th year option. Ideally we trade away some draft capital to a team that would take on DJ’s contract, but I know there’s no chance in hell they do that. Of course, what this means though, is that we might have a great OL and we win 10 games with DJ at QB throwing for 3400yds 15tds and 3 ints and Mara has us extend him. |
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Post by bavarobeast on Jan 29, 2024 13:00:20 GMT -5
Getting harder and harder to see us taking a QB qith pick number 6. We have 3 QB needy teams picking 1, 2 and 3 and it is hard to imagine those teams (a) passing up on a QB or (b) trading out of their pick. That would put us in the position of taking the 4th best QB at pick number 6, which I just can't see Schoen doing. I think it's more likely that we (1) trade back a few picks and select McCarthy/Nix after acquiring some more draft capital; or (2) draft Rome/Nabors at 6 and then trade back into the first for McCarthy/Nix. Good strategy! According to some after the combine JJ McCarthy will move into the top 10 - Bo Nix is risky. He’s a product of the system at Oregon.He looked inept at Auburn for 2 years. McCarthy is slotted in the top 20 in several mocks. His stock will rise after the combine. He’ll interview great and would be an outstanding face of the franchise. I like your trade back mindset for a QB later in the first or grab Alt at #6. Brock Bowers will be hard to pass on if no new QB is in the plan for the Giants - then maybe Bebe and Leggette in the second. Protection and weapons for the underwhelming Daniel Jones. |
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Post by Kase1 on Jan 29, 2024 16:05:58 GMT -5
What if we sign a solid Guard, move Neal to guard and took OT Joe Alt from ND at #6? That’s how you build a bully. (This is presuming that the top 3 QB’s are gone when we pick) I'd like the fact that we would have a young and VERY promising OL, but I don't like the fact we HAD to go OL in the 1st in back to back years Signing Onwenu, moving Neal inside, and either going FA vet at RG, or draft someone like Christian Mahogany or Christian Haynes in the 3rd or so |
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Post by imgrate on Jan 29, 2024 16:48:43 GMT -5
What if we sign a solid Guard, move Neal to guard and took OT Joe Alt from ND at #6? That’s how you build a bully. (This is presuming that the top 3 QB’s are gone when we pick) I'd like the fact that we would have a young and VERY promising OL, but I don't like the fact we HAD to go OL in the 1st in back to back years Signing Onwenu, moving Neal inside, and either going FA vet at RG, or draft someone like Christian Mahogany or Christian Haynes in the 3rd or so If it makes you feel better, we went corner last year, so it wouldn’t be back to back  |
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Post by Kase1 on Jan 29, 2024 16:51:48 GMT -5
I'd like the fact that we would have a young and VERY promising OL, but I don't like the fact we HAD to go OL in the 1st in back to back years Signing Onwenu, moving Neal inside, and either going FA vet at RG, or draft someone like Christian Mahogany or Christian Haynes in the 3rd or so If it makes you feel better, we went corner last year, so it wouldn’t be back to back LOL, oh yea, duh. Brain Fart, Neal just plays like a rookie at times |
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Post by Fletch842 on Jan 29, 2024 18:06:01 GMT -5
If it makes you feel better, we went corner last year, so it wouldn’t be back to back LOL, oh yea, duh. Brain Fart, Neal just plays like a rookie at times In his collective 2 seasons, he still hasn't played a full season of games due to injuries, really holds him back. |
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Aris
Special Teams
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Post by Aris on Jan 29, 2024 18:16:54 GMT -5
What if we sign a solid Guard, move Neal to guard and took OT Joe Alt from ND at #6? That’s how you build a bully. (This is presuming that the top 3 QB’s are gone when we pick) Yes please.   |
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