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Post by TCHOF on Mar 12, 2024 10:20:30 GMT -5
I know Campbell isn't on the team, but this still made me laugh
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Post by TEM on Mar 12, 2024 10:20:52 GMT -5
Guys, This guy is a friggin monster. It's like Aaron Donald joining our team....in his prime. He was lost in Carolina. A great player on a poor defense. I can't tell you how huge I think this guy is to our team. He will be all over the field. I hope you are right. His numbers suggest he is ok not great. One year out of 5 with double digit sacks (good but not great) His career average is 9 per season. 50 tackles last season (Verry good. But top tier good IDK) Career average 49 per season. 21 Pressures last season (Again IDK) His career average is 28 per season. 18 QB hits IDK His career average is 19 per season. To me he looks average. 5 years 150 is 50 a year. (That is in the top 1% in Edge rusher pay.) When you look at the upper echelon edge rushers in the league and compare Burns to them. I am not sure about him. I picked 3 to compare ( top 1%) Micah Parsons: All 3 seasons double with digit sacks. Career average 14 He had 64 tackles last season. Career average 71 per season 43 pressures last season Career average 44 33 QB hits last season Career average 30 Myles Garrett: 6 seasons with double digit sacks. Career average 13 per season He had 42 tackles last season. Career average 44 37 pressures last season. Career average 39 30 QB hits last season. Career Average 25 T.J. Watt: 5 seasons with double digit sacks. Career average 14 per season He had 68 tackles last season. Career average 58 He had 50 pressures last season. Career average 46 He had 36 QB hits last season. Career average 28 For top 1% in pay, I do not see the production. What are you seeing that I am not?
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cdngfan
Starter
Posts: 4,311
Member is Online
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Post by cdngfan on Mar 12, 2024 10:31:01 GMT -5
It's good shit by the NYG. That's the kind of move I want them making This is what I want money being moved to premium positions I was getting worried Good comment on BBV: We wanted a GM who understood modern analytics. He’s diverted money from RB and S, invested in a young premier edge rusher, prioritized pass blocking in o line signings and even picked up cheaper RB who has a great reputation in pass pro. Modern franchise management.
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Post by repeatchamps on Mar 12, 2024 10:31:56 GMT -5
Guys, This guy is a friggin monster. It's like Aaron Donald joining our team....in his prime. He was lost in Carolina. A great player on a poor defense. I can't tell you how huge I think this guy is to our team. He will be all over the field. I hope you are right. His numbers suggest he is ok not great. One year out of 5 with double digit sacks (good but not great) His career average is 9 per season. 50 tackles last season (Verry good top tier good IDK) Career average 49 per season. 21 Pressures last season (Again IDK) His career average is 28 per season. 18 QB hits IDK His career average is 19 per season. To me he looks average. 5 years 150 is 50 a year. (That is in the top 1% in Edge rusher pay.) When you look at the upper echelon edge rushers in the league and compare Burns to them. I am not sure about him. Micah Parsons: All 3 seasons double with digit sacks. Career average 14 He had 64 tackles last season. Career average 71 per season 43 pressures last season Career average 44 33 QB hits last season Career average 30 Myles Garrett: 6 seasons with double digit sacks. Career average 13 per season He had 42 tackles last season. Career average 44 37 pressures last season. Career average 39 30 QB hits last season. Career Average 25 T.J. Watt: 5 seasons with double digit sacks. Career average 14 per season He had 68 tackles last season. Career average 58 He had 50 pressures last season. Career average 46 He had 36 QB hits last season. Career average 28 For to 1% in pay I do not see the production. What are you seeing that I am not? I put him along side or slightly above Aidan Hutchinson. Aidan is of course on his rookie deal but likely will cash in similarly or higher even with no bump in average production until that time comes. They have similar numbers with Burns racking a good amount more tackles last 2 seasons. I think overall he is top 5, maybe not quite top 3 but on the edge of that with the potential, due to now better front 7 talent surrounding him, of him to improve into the top 3. Let's not get hung up on non-guaranteed money either. 87.5 mill is the guaranteed portion and really all that matters.
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Post by TEM on Mar 12, 2024 10:34:46 GMT -5
I hope you are right. His numbers suggest he is ok not great. One year out of 5 with double digit sacks (good but not great) His career average is 9 per season. 50 tackles last season (Verry good top tier good IDK) Career average 49 per season. 21 Pressures last season (Again IDK) His career average is 28 per season. 18 QB hits IDK His career average is 19 per season. To me he looks average. 5 years 150 is 50 a year. (That is in the top 1% in Edge rusher pay.) When you look at the upper echelon edge rushers in the league and compare Burns to them. I am not sure about him. Micah Parsons: All 3 seasons double with digit sacks. Career average 14 He had 64 tackles last season. Career average 71 per season 43 pressures last season Career average 44 33 QB hits last season Career average 30 Myles Garrett: 6 seasons with double digit sacks. Career average 13 per season He had 42 tackles last season. Career average 44 37 pressures last season. Career average 39 30 QB hits last season. Career Average 25 T.J. Watt: 5 seasons with double digit sacks. Career average 14 per season He had 68 tackles last season. Career average 58 He had 50 pressures last season. Career average 46 He had 36 QB hits last season. Career average 28 For to 1% in pay I do not see the production. What are you seeing that I am not? I put him along side or slightly above Aidan Hutchinson. Aidan is of course on his rookie deal but likely will cash in similarly or higher even with no bump in average production until that time comes. They have similar numbers with Burns racking a good amount more tackles last 2 seasons. I think overall he is top 5, maybe not quite top 3 but on the edge of that with potential with now better front 7 talent surrounding him allowing him to improve into the top 3. Let's not get hung up on non-guaranteed money either. 87.5 mill is the guaranteed portion and really all that matters. I am just going by the available contract specs. To me it is a lot of capital for slightly above average.
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Post by Analyst on Mar 12, 2024 10:37:23 GMT -5
Probably because regardless of the cap increasing, it means we paid him to be a great player. So he better be a great player. Free agency: Pay elite money for great players. Pay great money for good players. Pay good money for average players. That’s the way it’s always been. Agreed. We paid him "élite" money, so he needs to be a great player for us. Thats what the original post was all about. We can not have another Kenny Golladay or Nate Solder situation. Or, if you want to stay local, a Daniel Jones situation. He needs to be our new leader on defense, along with Dex and Okereke, and possibly Thibs, and go out there and cause havoc. This is his first Brinks Trunk, so, really you never know how a player reacts to that.
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Post by Analyst on Mar 12, 2024 10:39:08 GMT -5
How come we didnt franchise then trade McKinney similar to this? Seems like we could have gotten some good compensation for him with the teams that were bidding for him. Because Edge is an elite position in the NFL. Safety is not. Does that matter though? Im not saying we would get the same compensation as Carolina did, but we couldnt tag him and trade him for a 3rd rounder? Seems like a team would trade a 3rd rounder for him at least. He is a very good player and only 24.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 12, 2024 10:41:55 GMT -5
Because Edge is an elite position in the NFL. Safety is not. Does that matter though? Im not saying we would get the same compensation as Carolina did, but we couldnt tag him and trade him for a 3rd rounder? Seems like a team would trade a 3rd rounder for him at least. He is a very good player and only 24. You think that you are thinking of things that Schoen didn’t think of?
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Post by repeatchamps on Mar 12, 2024 10:49:53 GMT -5
I put him along side or slightly above Aidan Hutchinson. Aidan is of course on his rookie deal but likely will cash in similarly or higher even with no bump in average production until that time comes. They have similar numbers with Burns racking a good amount more tackles last 2 seasons. I think overall he is top 5, maybe not quite top 3 but on the edge of that with potential with now better front 7 talent surrounding him allowing him to improve into the top 3. Let's not get hung up on non-guaranteed money either. 87.5 mill is the guaranteed portion and really all that matters. I am just going by the available contract specs. To me it is a lot of capital for slightly above average. Can't just be about numbers and contract terms. There are intangibles too. I am hearing that his teammates love him as well and that Burns is a leader. We don't know how he'll function with better talent around him too. He's got Thibs, Dex, Okereke and an up and coming Micah McFadden as a supporting cast with Azeez as depth for now. Surely too they will be supplementing Dex with someone else at DT that is hopefully effective.
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Post by Analyst on Mar 12, 2024 10:50:19 GMT -5
Am I seeing this correct. We are paying an 8 sack 50 tackle player 30 million a year. Yeah, ya gotta look a little deeper than just surface level numbers like that. Kayvon had 11.5 sacks last year. I like Kayvon's longterm outlook but there is not a single GM in the league that would take Kayvon over Burns. He didn't get close to the number of chances to rush the passer as other top EDGEs playing for the worst team in the league. He's generated pressure consistently since coming into the league. But if you do want surface level numbers, those look pretty good too: Defenders with 46+ sacks and 59+ TFL since 2019: Nick Bosa Maxx Crosby Aaron Donald Myles Garrett T.J. Watt Brian Burns Im always weary about signing guys who dont produce the stats they get paid for... Surprisingly, he was only double teamed 14% of the snaps he took. Nick Bosa was doubled 26%, Donald 63%, Garrett 29%, Watt 14% More stats: Giants Edge Brian Burns pass rush stats for Edge players Sacks 2023: 9 (28th) 2022: 12.5 (10th) 2021: 9 (27th) QB Hits: 2023: 10 (27th) 2022: 11 (23rd) 2021: 12 (15th) Pressures 2023: 21 (69th) 2022: 44 (11th) 2021: 30 (29th) Total Sacks/Pressures/Hits 2023: 40 (53rd) 2022: 68 (12th) 2021: 51 (23rd) Pass Rush Win Rate 2023: 13.1% (37th) 2022: 10.5% (59th) 2021: 9.6% (77th) *Stats provided by Bobby Skinner
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Post by Analyst on Mar 12, 2024 10:51:21 GMT -5
Does that matter though? Im not saying we would get the same compensation as Carolina did, but we couldnt tag him and trade him for a 3rd rounder? Seems like a team would trade a 3rd rounder for him at least. He is a very good player and only 24. You think that you are thinking of things that Schoen didn’t think of? No, I was just wondering why that didnt happen.... I would be shocked if you told me we couldnt trade McKinney even for a 7th round pick.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 12, 2024 10:54:28 GMT -5
Free agency: Pay elite money for great players. Pay great money for good players. Pay good money for average players. That’s the way it’s always been. Agreed. We paid him "élite" money, so he needs to be a great player for us. Thats what the original post was all about. We can not have another Kenny Golladay or Nate Solder situation. Or, if you want to stay local, a Daniel Jones situation. He needs to be our new leader on defense, along with Dex and Okereke, and possibly Thibs, and go out there and cause havoc. This is his first Brinks Trunk, so, really you never know how a player reacts to that. Well it’s impossible to predict the future but this dude has been a stud since he entered the league. Had he hit FA he would have been the top Edge FA on the market for good reason. He is 25 years old and is just entering his prime.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 12, 2024 10:56:01 GMT -5
Because Edge is an elite position in the NFL. Safety is not. Does that matter though? Im not saying we would get the same compensation as Carolina did, but we couldnt tag him and trade him for a 3rd rounder? Seems like a team would trade a 3rd rounder for him at least. He is a very good player and only 24. I do think it matters. You don’t have any leverage trying to barter something that doesn’t have that much value. I don’t think we’d have gotten a 3rd for him honestly. And more than likely we will get a 3rd round compensatory pick for him in 2025.
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Post by TEM on Mar 12, 2024 10:57:52 GMT -5
I am just going by the available contract specs. To me it is a lot of capital for slightly above average. Can't just be about numbers and contract terms. There are intangibles too. I am hearing that his teammates love him as well and that Burns is a leader. We don't know how he'll function with better talent around him too. He's got Thibs, Dex, Okereke and an up and coming Micah McFadden as a supporting cast with Azeez as depth for now. Surely too they will be supplementing Dex with someone else at DT that is hopefully effective. All plausible. I hope you are correct. Plausibility should not be a deciding factor in a game changer's contract. It should be very binary Yes- No. The FO said Yes. Let's hope they got it correct. That is what the Giants paid for. The guy in the fourth quarter that steps up and seals the win.
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Post by dream8 on Mar 12, 2024 10:59:48 GMT -5
Yeah, ya gotta look a little deeper than just surface level numbers like that. Kayvon had 11.5 sacks last year. I like Kayvon's longterm outlook but there is not a single GM in the league that would take Kayvon over Burns. He didn't get close to the number of chances to rush the passer as other top EDGEs playing for the worst team in the league. He's generated pressure consistently since coming into the league. But if you do want surface level numbers, those look pretty good too: Defenders with 46+ sacks and 59+ TFL since 2019: Nick Bosa Maxx Crosby Aaron Donald Myles Garrett T.J. Watt Brian Burns Im always weary about signing guys who dont produce the stats they get paid for... Yeah ya lost me here, I just gave a stat that shows only 5 other guys (all of whom everyone considers elite) have matched him in sacks and tackles for losses since he's entered the league. Are sacks and tackles for loss not the "stats they get paid for?"
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Post by imgrate on Mar 12, 2024 11:10:01 GMT -5
Does that matter though? Im not saying we would get the same compensation as Carolina did, but we couldnt tag him and trade him for a 3rd rounder? Seems like a team would trade a 3rd rounder for him at least. He is a very good player and only 24. I do think it matters. You don’t have any leverage trying to barter something that doesn’t have that much value. I don’t think we’d have gotten a 3rd for him honestly. And more than likely we will get a 3rd round compensatory pick for him in 2025. Yea.. one thing to consider.. we didnt sign burns as a free agent, rather after a trade, so I’m guessing his contract doesnt count against the comp pick formula
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 12, 2024 11:12:25 GMT -5
I do think it matters. You don’t have any leverage trying to barter something that doesn’t have that much value. I don’t think we’d have gotten a 3rd for him honestly. And more than likely we will get a 3rd round compensatory pick for him in 2025. Yea.. one thing to consider.. we didnt sign burns as a free agent, rather after a trade, so I’m guessing his contract doesnt count against the comp pick formula Correct. Another reason why Schoen’s seed should be used to continue the line of humanity.
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Post by Nick6475 on Mar 12, 2024 11:18:10 GMT -5
Guys, This guy is a friggin monster. It's like Aaron Donald joining our team....in his prime. He was lost in Carolina. A great player on a poor defense. I can't tell you how huge I think this guy is to our team. He will be all over the field. I hope you are right. His numbers suggest he is ok not great. One year out of 5 with double digit sacks (good but not great) His career average is 9 per season. 50 tackles last season (Verry good. But top tier good IDK) Career average 49 per season. 21 Pressures last season (Again IDK) His career average is 28 per season. 18 QB hits IDK His career average is 19 per season. To me he looks average. 5 years 150 is 50 a year. (That is in the top 1% in Edge rusher pay.) When you look at the upper echelon edge rushers in the league and compare Burns to them. I am not sure about him. I picked 3 to compare ( top 1%) Micah Parsons: All 3 seasons double with digit sacks. Career average 14 He had 64 tackles last season. Career average 71 per season 43 pressures last season Career average 44 33 QB hits last season Career average 30 Myles Garrett: 6 seasons with double digit sacks. Career average 13 per season He had 42 tackles last season. Career average 44 37 pressures last season. Career average 39 30 QB hits last season. Career Average 25 T.J. Watt: 5 seasons with double digit sacks. Career average 14 per season He had 68 tackles last season. Career average 58 He had 50 pressures last season. Career average 46 He had 36 QB hits last season. Career average 28 For top 1% in pay, I do not see the production. What are you seeing that I am not? Bad math?
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Post by TEM on Mar 12, 2024 11:20:31 GMT -5
I hope you are right. His numbers suggest he is ok not great. One year out of 5 with double digit sacks (good but not great) His career average is 9 per season. 50 tackles last season (Verry good. But top tier good IDK) Career average 49 per season. 21 Pressures last season (Again IDK) His career average is 28 per season. 18 QB hits IDK His career average is 19 per season. To me he looks average. 5 years 150 is 50 a year. (That is in the top 1% in Edge rusher pay.) When you look at the upper echelon edge rushers in the league and compare Burns to them. I am not sure about him. I picked 3 to compare ( top 1%) Micah Parsons: All 3 seasons double with digit sacks. Career average 14 He had 64 tackles last season. Career average 71 per season 43 pressures last season Career average 44 33 QB hits last season Career average 30 Myles Garrett: 6 seasons with double digit sacks. Career average 13 per season He had 42 tackles last season. Career average 44 37 pressures last season. Career average 39 30 QB hits last season. Career Average 25 T.J. Watt: 5 seasons with double digit sacks. Career average 14 per season He had 68 tackles last season. Career average 58 He had 50 pressures last season. Career average 46 He had 36 QB hits last season. Career average 28 For top 1% in pay, I do not see the production. What are you seeing that I am not? Bad math? Typo hit the wrong key 30 a year. Still in the top 1% of Edge rusher money. # 2 in the top 100. That does not change in any way change the stats. Slightly above average. Burns was ranked 37th is sack totals last year. Is he worth number 2 Money? We will find out.
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Post by jaymas on Mar 12, 2024 11:31:24 GMT -5
Still anecdotal, but to have a better sense of what others in the league think of Burns, consider that the Rams were ready to give up 2 first round draft picks plus a second-rounder for him in 2022.
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 2,166
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Post by te88 on Mar 12, 2024 11:31:57 GMT -5
Typo hit the wrong key 30 a year. Still in the top 1% of Edge rusher money. That does not change the stats. If they decided to trade and sign this player based on his stats and not the game tape I would be pretty furious with our GM. Particularly for a defensive linemen when the stats are severely limited in their application. He’s an elite player. It’s on the film. Shane Bowens D prioritizes the pass rush and would have been non-functional without another bookend edge.
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Post by odellhasfun on Mar 12, 2024 11:34:36 GMT -5
Was Burns going to be a FA or was he under contract? Under contract but he wanted out. According to Panther fans, he dogged it at times last year.
Wow, fun read in the panthers forum. I think they are more delusional than Jets fans. They thought they could get 2 firsts and a second for him haha
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Post by TEM on Mar 12, 2024 11:35:23 GMT -5
Typo hit the wrong key 30 a year. Still in the top 1% of Edge rusher money. That does not change the stats. If they decided to trade and sign this player based on his stats and not the game tape I would be pretty furious with our GM. Particularly for a defensive linemen when the stats are severely limited in their application. He’s an elite player. It’s on the film. Shane Bowens D prioritizes the pass rush and would have been non-functional without another bookend edge. I do nt see it. His stats are very consistent. That is a tell. Usually stays that way. I hope he becomes an anomaly and out preforms his career numbers.
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Post by Nick6475 on Mar 12, 2024 11:37:20 GMT -5
Typo hit the wrong key 30 a year. Still in the top 1% of Edge rusher money. # 2 in the top 100. That does not change in any way change the stats. Slightly above average. Burns was ranked 37th is sack totals last year. Is he worth number 2 Money? We will find out. I know, just was answering the question, that is what I was seeing and you weren't! If you look at the historical numbers, it shouts overpay. I think Shoen is betting on him getting better as he continues to enter his prime years. Hope it works out.
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Post by TEM on Mar 12, 2024 11:39:00 GMT -5
Typo hit the wrong key 30 a year. Still in the top 1% of Edge rusher money. # 2 in the top 100. That does not change in any way change the stats. Slightly above average. Burns was ranked 37th is sack totals last year. Is he worth number 2 Money? We will find out. I know, just was answering the question, that is what I was seeing and you weren't! If you look at the historical numbers, it shouts overpay. I think Shoen is betting on him getting better as he continues to enter his prime years. Hope it works out. I want you guys to point out my mistake. I am not perfect. It is a big gamble. We need it to pay off.
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Post by imgrate on Mar 12, 2024 11:44:24 GMT -5
Under contract but he wanted out. According to Panther fans, he dogged it at times last year.
Wow, fun read in the panthers forum. I think they are more delusional than Jets fans. They thought they could get 2 firsts and a second for him haha They are right, though. Just not right now. At the trade deadline they were offered two 1s and a 2. The ones were in ‘25 and ‘26, but still.. crazy
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Post by inthezone on Mar 12, 2024 11:46:17 GMT -5
I know, just was answering the question, that is what I was seeing and you weren't! If you look at the historical numbers, it shouts overpay. I think Shoen is betting on him getting better as he continues to enter his prime years. Hope it works out. I want you guys to point out my mistake. I am not perfect. It is a big gamble. We need it to pay off. I like this gamble and just like every big signing it's a major chance they are taking. I hope this team starts flying around and hitting all over the field because the shit they put on the field last season was a slow and weak tackling unit!
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Post by inthezone on Mar 12, 2024 11:48:13 GMT -5
Wow, fun read in the panthers forum. I think they are more delusional than Jets fans. They thought they could get 2 firsts and a second for him haha They are right, though. Just not right now. At the trade deadline they were offered two 1s and a 2. The ones were in ‘25 and ‘26, but still.. crazy A stupid non trade of Getty proportions for not taking a couple of extra 1st for him! We have fans out here upset the Giants didn't trade Barkley for a 3rd day draft pick could you image this mistake being made.
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Post by Nick6475 on Mar 12, 2024 11:48:21 GMT -5
I know, just was answering the question, that is what I was seeing and you weren't! If you look at the historical numbers, it shouts overpay. I think Shoen is betting on him getting better as he continues to enter his prime years. Hope it works out. I want you guys to point out my mistake. I am not perfect. It is a big gamble. We need it to pay off. At least this gamble is on a premium position and not on an injury prone player.
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Post by TEM on Mar 12, 2024 11:56:58 GMT -5
I want you guys to point out my mistake. I am not perfect. It is a big gamble. We need it to pay off. I like this gamble and just like every big signing it's a major chance they are taking. I hope this team starts flying around and hitting all over the field because the shit they put on the field last season was a slow and weak tackling unit! They better. We are going against Barkley and Ekeler. Dallas Trey Benson with pick 56?
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