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Post by inthezone on Mar 19, 2024 7:12:58 GMT -5
If there isn't a QB they love at 6 then I hope they can trade with the Vikings and then draft an OL, CB or DT with those picks.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 19, 2024 7:26:37 GMT -5
what? This team has sucked for over a decade with two exception years. 2022 being one of them. The have been "down hill" for over a decade for the most past. Have you been watching at all? They sucked for a decade because they had a bad front office and bad HC's. That supposedly changed in 2022. Going back beyond that is irrelevant. says the fella who praises Gettleman and really doesn’t follow football as much as this board.
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Post by imgrate on Mar 19, 2024 7:59:19 GMT -5
I think people put WAY too much stock in the "QB on a rookie deal" thought process. How many teams with QBs on rookie deals have won the SB? Not a lot. With that said I think they go WR at #6 because that is the biggest glaring giant hole on this roster and the players that are the (likely) best available line up perfectly with that. There are two other possible options IMO and that is QB, but I don't think the talent lines up with the draft position and I think this staff has more faith in Jones than the fans do. The other option being OL but this is more about the talent there than anything. The rookie pay scale has only been in place for 12ish years. Before that, the number 1 overall pick was typically one of, if not, the highest paid player in the league. That said, it is a huge advantage to have high level qb play on a rookie deal, it’s effectively saving you 40mill a year that you can apply to other positions. That’s like signing Onwenu and hunt this offseason… As for the aggregate numbers, I don’t have them TEM, maybe you can pull them to see % of teams with QBs on rookie deals vs non rookie deals made playoffs/sb since the rookie wage scale went into effect vs the 10 years before it went into effect. But really, the numbers don’t matter, its the concept and logic behind it that does, and the logic is sound. There’s alot of pitfalls that can come throughout the process of building a team (missing on FAs, missing on draft picks, injuries, etc.), but having great players on cheap deals, especially players at expensive positions, gives you an advantage to help make up for mistakes.
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Post by giants8493 on Mar 19, 2024 8:08:28 GMT -5
I think the Giants need a Star wr.
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Post by inthezone on Mar 19, 2024 8:13:34 GMT -5
I think people put WAY too much stock in the "QB on a rookie deal" thought process. How many teams with QBs on rookie deals have won the SB? Not a lot. With that said I think they go WR at #6 because that is the biggest glaring giant hole on this roster and the players that are the (likely) best available line up perfectly with that. There are two other possible options IMO and that is QB, but I don't think the talent lines up with the draft position and I think this staff has more faith in Jones than the fans do. The other option being OL but this is more about the talent there than anything. The rookie pay scale has only been in place for 12ish years. Before that, the number 1 overall pick was typically one of, if not, the highest paid player in the league. That said, it is a huge advantage to have high level qb play on a rookie deal, it’s effectively saving you 40mill a year that you can apply to other positions. That’s like signing Onwenu and hunt this offseason… As for the aggregate numbers, I don’t have them TEM , maybe you can pull them to see % of teams with QBs on rookie deals vs non rookie deals made playoffs/sb since the rookie wage scale went into effect vs the 10 years before it went into effect. SB is a bad barometer to gauge since it is not a statistically relevant dataset, but playoffs should give good results.. Historically teams weren't winning the SB when they had QBs on their 2nd contracts unless it was Brady. Mahomes is now the new Brady but I'm not sure how much his contract effected the cap number with how his new contract is structured this past season. Just took a quick look and even the losing QBs were usually on their rookie contracts.
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miggs
Starter
Posts: 4,178
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Post by miggs on Mar 19, 2024 8:36:09 GMT -5
They sucked for a decade because they had a bad front office and bad HC's. That supposedly changed in 2022. Going back beyond that is irrelevant. says the fella who praises Gettleman and really doesn’t follow football as much as this board. I guess you dislike all of DG's draft choices. I like some of them.
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Post by shocknaweny on Mar 19, 2024 8:38:33 GMT -5
I would be happy with Malik Nabers or Harrison Jr. not so much with Romeo Odunze
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 19, 2024 8:48:40 GMT -5
says the fella who praises Gettleman and really doesn’t follow football as much as this board. I guess you dislike all of DG's draft choices. I like some of you claim “They sucked for a decade because they had a bad front office . . . . “ which includes Gettleman. Cerebral? You literally can’t keep track of your own thought pattern. F’ed up you can’t even communicate.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 19, 2024 8:51:51 GMT -5
The Giants won a few games they had business winning so ended up picking #6. That slot is the only reason they may not go QB.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 19, 2024 9:15:55 GMT -5
I think people put WAY too much stock in the "QB on a rookie deal" thought process. How many teams with QBs on rookie deals have won the SB? Not a lot. With that said I think they go WR at #6 because that is the biggest glaring giant hole on this roster and the players that are the (likely) best available line up perfectly with that. There are two other possible options IMO and that is QB, but I don't think the talent lines up with the draft position and I think this staff has more faith in Jones than the fans do. The other option being OL but this is more about the talent there than anything. The rookie pay scale has only been in place for 12ish years. Before that, the number 1 overall pick was typically one of, if not, the highest paid player in the league. That said, it is a huge advantage to have high level qb play on a rookie deal, it’s effectively saving you 40mill a year that you can apply to other positions. That’s like signing Onwenu and hunt this offseason… As for the aggregate numbers, I don’t have them TEM, maybe you can pull them to see % of teams with QBs on rookie deals vs non rookie deals made playoffs/sb since the rookie wage scale went into effect vs the 10 years before it went into effect. But really, the numbers don’t matter, its the concept and logic behind it that does, and the logic is sound. There’s alot of pitfalls that can come throughout the process of building a team (missing on FAs, missing on draft picks, injuries, etc.), but having great players on cheap deals, especially players at expensive positions, gives you an advantage to help make up for mistakes. This is the same logic I’m using for WR. The AAV for top/elite WRs is upwards of $30M per year.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 19, 2024 9:17:29 GMT -5
The Giants won a few games they had business winning so ended up picking #6. That slot is the only reason they may not go QB. Just think… we might be missing out on this year’s Darnold or Zack Wilson. Dammit!
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Post by imgrate on Mar 19, 2024 9:20:55 GMT -5
The rookie pay scale has only been in place for 12ish years. Before that, the number 1 overall pick was typically one of, if not, the highest paid player in the league. That said, it is a huge advantage to have high level qb play on a rookie deal, it’s effectively saving you 40mill a year that you can apply to other positions. That’s like signing Onwenu and hunt this offseason… As for the aggregate numbers, I don’t have them TEM, maybe you can pull them to see % of teams with QBs on rookie deals vs non rookie deals made playoffs/sb since the rookie wage scale went into effect vs the 10 years before it went into effect. But really, the numbers don’t matter, its the concept and logic behind it that does, and the logic is sound. There’s alot of pitfalls that can come throughout the process of building a team (missing on FAs, missing on draft picks, injuries, etc.), but having great players on cheap deals, especially players at expensive positions, gives you an advantage to help make up for mistakes. This is the same logic I’m using for WR. The AAV for top/elite WRs is upwards of $30M per year. Yea, agreed, in my opinion, the first three rounds, every year, should only be WR, pass rusher, QB, CB, or OT. There will be a player worth the pick at one of those positions. You do have to take into account scarcity of resources and an evolving marketplace. So, specific to WR, while they do get paid alot, they are seemingly plentiful compared to pass rushers QBs and OTs, and so maybe there is some value in getting WRs in that round 2 range.. but, thats nitpicking
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Post by imgrate on Mar 19, 2024 9:32:01 GMT -5
This isn't to say I think Jones is the answer at QB1, IMO he is not and never will be. But reference my post from the other day: Schoen is building the team like a modern franchise. Putting equity into the trenches: protect the QB and passing game. Generate a pass rush with the DL to stop the opposing passing game.
Then add talent at the play making positions.
Then plug the QB in so that they are set up for their best chance of success while playing on a rookie deal. Thus creating a five year window of opportunity.Today's NFL is a passing league. You need to have an offense that is very productive at it and a defense that shuts down the opposing passing attacks. With that comes the price tag for #1 WRs. They are highly coveted. And most successful teams have one great outside WR and one very good one. That said, look at the AAV of the top WRs. They are $27-30M per year. The market for #1 WRs has boomed in the past five years. So not only is WR1 a major need for the Giants it would also behoove us to have them on a rookie deal (plus 5th year option) for five years. Thus making it easier to plug in QB1 and supporting that window of opportunity. Makes sense from an efficient allocation of resources standpoint. But I get the feeling that there’s 1, maybe 2, QBs that they would take at 6 over WR.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 19, 2024 9:36:34 GMT -5
The Giants won a few games they had business winning so ended up picking #6. That slot is the only reason they may not go QB. Just think… we might be missing out on this year’s Darnold or Zack Wilson. Dammit! Thankfully we have Jones and don’t get him a diva receiver who fights with kickers nets.
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Post by shocknaweny on Mar 19, 2024 9:39:12 GMT -5
The Giants won a few games they had business winning so ended up picking #6. That slot is the only reason they may not go QB. Those stupid meaningless wins against Washington and New England cost us a franchise QB Hooray
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 19, 2024 9:43:11 GMT -5
This isn't to say I think Jones is the answer at QB1, IMO he is not and never will be. But reference my post from the other day: Schoen is building the team like a modern franchise. Putting equity into the trenches: protect the QB and passing game. Generate a pass rush with the DL to stop the opposing passing game.
Then add talent at the play making positions.
Then plug the QB in so that they are set up for their best chance of success while playing on a rookie deal. Thus creating a five year window of opportunity.Today's NFL is a passing league. You need to have an offense that is very productive at it and a defense that shuts down the opposing passing attacks. With that comes the price tag for #1 WRs. They are highly coveted. And most successful teams have one great outside WR and one very good one. That said, look at the AAV of the top WRs. They are $27-30M per year. The market for #1 WRs has boomed in the past five years. So not only is WR1 a major need for the Giants it would also behoove us to have them on a rookie deal (plus 5th year option) for five years. Thus making it easier to plug in QB1 and supporting that window of opportunity. Makes sense from an efficient allocation of resources standpoint. But I get the feeling that there’s 1, maybe 2, QBs that they would take at 6 over WR. Probably. Which is why I set the precedent that IMO I’m not sold on these QBs this high.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 19, 2024 9:43:42 GMT -5
The Giants won a few games they had business winning so ended up picking #6. That slot is the only reason they may not go QB. Those stupid meaningless wins against Washington and New England cost us a franchise QB Hooray Was told we have Montana and those crucial wins will carry over to Sept. We also have the hindsight card to play after the crapshoot draft
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 19, 2024 9:44:07 GMT -5
The Giants won a few games they had business winning so ended up picking #6. That slot is the only reason they may not go QB. Those stupid meaningless wins against Washington and New England cost us a franchise QB Hooray Yes! The top 5 QBs are guaranteed to be franchise QBs!! Historically this always happens!
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Post by shocknaweny on Mar 19, 2024 9:45:11 GMT -5
Those stupid meaningless wins against Washington and New England cost us a franchise QB Hooray Yes! The top 5 QBs are guaranteed to be franchise QBs!! Historically this always happens! Well you don't find them in free agency Have to keep trying and hope you find one
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 19, 2024 9:45:34 GMT -5
Those stupid meaningless wins against Washington and New England cost us a franchise QB Hooray Was told we have Montana and those crucial wins will carry over to Sept. We also have the hindsight card to play after the crapshoot draft If only we went 0-10 to finish the season. We’d be in a much better place. Was told all it takes it a pool party to overcome all that losing - which doesn’t have any affect on the locker room or franchise anyway.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 19, 2024 9:46:14 GMT -5
Yes! The top 5 QBs are guaranteed to be franchise QBs!! Historically this always happens! Well you don't find them in free agency Have to keep trying and hope you find one Awesome. So we can draft another Daniel Jones and be in the same place four years from now. Sign me up!!
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Post by shocknaweny on Mar 19, 2024 9:48:38 GMT -5
well hopefully they don't keep falling in love with Duke quarterbacks....any fan of the Giants could've told them how great Duke QB's turn out from previous experience.
I am sure we will continue to be the worst run franchise in the NFL and hopefully we have the #1 pick when Arch Manning is coming out if they aren't actively tanking that year I won't even be a GIANTS fan any longer
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 19, 2024 9:49:40 GMT -5
Was told we have Montana and those crucial wins will carry over to Sept. We also have the hindsight card to play after the crapshoot draft If only we went 0-10 to finish the season. We’d be in a much better place. Was told all it takes it a pool party to overcome all that losing - which doesn’t have any affect on the locker room or franchise anyway. yeah, no need for a pool party during off-season workouts now. Now during introductions to new players the vets can share their stories of big wins vs Washington and New England to propel them going forward.
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Post by shocknaweny on Mar 19, 2024 9:54:31 GMT -5
NE was definitely actively trying to lose that game to us lol
10-7
My God !!!
Bill probably told the kicker to miss the field goal at the end of that game
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 19, 2024 11:34:39 GMT -5
If only we went 0-10 to finish the season. We’d be in a much better place. Was told all it takes it a pool party to overcome all that losing - which doesn’t have any affect on the locker room or franchise anyway. yeah, no need for a pool party during off-season workouts now. Now during introductions to new players the vets can share their stories of big wins vs Washington and New England to propel them going forward. If only they could share how excited they were to finish the season 0-10 to move up a couple of draft spots. Such lore. Speaking of, I’m assuming you think the Giants are not Super Bowl contenders this upcoming season. So any win is “meaningless” and detracts from the ultimate goal: higher draft pick. I look forward to you rooting for an 0-17 season every week. Like last year.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 19, 2024 11:35:46 GMT -5
NE was definitely actively trying to lose that game to us lol !0-7 My God !!! Bill probably told the kicker to miss the field goal at the end of that game Makes sense. Especially since he knew he would not be the HC in 2024. lol
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Post by imgrate on Mar 19, 2024 11:38:30 GMT -5
Well you don't find them in free agency Have to keep trying and hope you find one Awesome. So we can draft another Daniel Jones and be in the same place four years from now. Sign me up!! We could also be drafting the next Sammy Watkins.. At the end of the day, we’re going to have to draft a QB at some point and all of those odds of a qb busting are going to be just as true as they are now. And so, if we operate under the idea that we need good QB play to be successful, then if you get to roll the dice twice in, say, 4 years, as opposed to once, then your overall odds are better.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 19, 2024 11:42:33 GMT -5
yeah, no need for a pool party during off-season workouts now. Now during introductions to new players the vets can share their stories of big wins vs Washington and New England to propel them going forward. If only they could share how excited they were to finish the season 0-10 to move up a couple of draft spots. Such lore. Speaking of, I’m assuming you think the Giants are not Super Bowl contenders this upcoming season. So any win is “meaningless” and detracts from the ultimate goal: higher draft pick. I look forward to you rooting for an 0-17 season every week. Like last year. Yeah, that’s the hyperbole take. Miggs like
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 19, 2024 11:51:44 GMT -5
If only they could share how excited they were to finish the season 0-10 to move up a couple of draft spots. Such lore. Speaking of, I’m assuming you think the Giants are not Super Bowl contenders this upcoming season. So any win is “meaningless” and detracts from the ultimate goal: higher draft pick. I look forward to you rooting for an 0-17 season every week. Like last year. Yeah, that’s the hyperbole take. Miggs like And there’s the deflection. Mendy/Red like.
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Post by imgrate on Mar 19, 2024 12:02:32 GMT -5
Yeah, that’s the hyperbole take. Miggs like And there’s the deflection. Mendy/Red like. I can’t wait till something is called “imgrate like.” That’s when you know you’ve made it in life
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