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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 18, 2024 18:13:57 GMT -5
This isn't to say I think Jones is the answer at QB1, IMO he is not and never will be. But reference my post from the other day:
Schoen is building the team like a modern franchise. Putting equity into the trenches: protect the QB and passing game. Generate a pass rush with the DL to stop the opposing passing game.
Then add talent at the play making positions.
Then plug the QB in so that they are set up for their best chance of success while playing on a rookie deal. Thus creating a five year window of opportunity.
Today's NFL is a passing league. You need to have an offense that is very productive at it and a defense that shuts down the opposing passing attacks. With that comes the price tag for #1 WRs. They are highly coveted. And most successful teams have one great outside WR and one very good one.
That said, look at the AAV of the top WRs. They are $27-30M per year. The market for #1 WRs has boomed in the past five years.
So not only is WR1 a major need for the Giants it would also behoove us to have them on a rookie deal (plus 5th year option) for five years. Thus making it easier to plug in QB1 and supporting that window of opportunity.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 18, 2024 18:17:21 GMT -5
* this is assuming we don't trade back or up
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Post by dreamteam2007 on Mar 18, 2024 18:42:58 GMT -5
This is my feeling, we have too much invested financially in Jones this year to make a move for one of the top QBs in the first round. Seems to make the most sense to go for a top end WR which seems to be right there on big boards everywhere for the 6th pick. If jones plays bad like he did for most of the 5 games he played last year.. then we'll have a top draft pick next year if there is a good QB we like. If he plays well.. then we can re-evaluate. Continue building a supporting cast though for jones and most likely a rookie QB in the near future.
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miggs
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Post by miggs on Mar 18, 2024 18:46:02 GMT -5
This isn't to say I think Jones is the answer at QB1, IMO he is not and never will be. But reference my post from the other day: Schoen is building the team like a modern franchise. Putting equity into the trenches: protect the QB and passing game. Generate a pass rush with the DL to stop the opposing passing game.
Then add talent at the play making positions.
Then plug the QB in so that they are set up for their best chance of success while playing on a rookie deal. Thus creating a five year window of opportunity.Today's NFL is a passing league. You need to have an offense that is very productive at it and a defense that shuts down the opposing passing attacks. With that comes the price tag for #1 WRs. They are highly coveted. And most successful teams have one great outside WR and one very good one. That said, look at the AAV of the top WRs. They are $27-30M per year. The market for #1 WRs has boomed in the past five years. So not only is WR1 a major need for the Giants it would also behoove us to have them on a rookie deal (plus 5th year option) for five years. Thus making it easier to plug in QB1 and supporting that window of opportunity. How can say the Giants are building a better offense when the Giants have lost a ton games since mid-season after Schoen and Daboll were hired? Team has been gong downhill ever since. Guess you're unaware of that. . I guess you trust the process. |
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 18, 2024 19:05:03 GMT -5
I think people put WAY too much stock in the "QB on a rookie deal" thought process. How many teams with QBs on rookie deals have won the SB? Not a lot.
With that said I think they go WR at #6 because that is the biggest glaring giant hole on this roster and the players that are the (likely) best available line up perfectly with that. There are two other possible options IMO and that is QB, but I don't think the talent lines up with the draft position and I think this staff has more faith in Jones than the fans do. The other option being OL but this is more about the talent there than anything.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 18, 2024 19:22:10 GMT -5
This isn't to say I think Jones is the answer at QB1, IMO he is not and never will be. But reference my post from the other day: Schoen is building the team like a modern franchise. Putting equity into the trenches: protect the QB and passing game. Generate a pass rush with the DL to stop the opposing passing game.
Then add talent at the play making positions.
Then plug the QB in so that they are set up for their best chance of success while playing on a rookie deal. Thus creating a five year window of opportunity.Today's NFL is a passing league. You need to have an offense that is very productive at it and a defense that shuts down the opposing passing attacks. With that comes the price tag for #1 WRs. They are highly coveted. And most successful teams have one great outside WR and one very good one. That said, look at the AAV of the top WRs. They are $27-30M per year. The market for #1 WRs has boomed in the past five years. So not only is WR1 a major need for the Giants it would also behoove us to have them on a rookie deal (plus 5th year option) for five years. Thus making it easier to plug in QB1 and supporting that window of opportunity. How can say the Giants are building a better offense when the Giants have lost a ton games since mid-season after Schoen and Daboll were hired? Team has been gong downhill ever since. Guess you're unaware of that. . I guess you trust the process. what? This team has sucked for over a decade with two exception years. 2022 being one of them. The have been "down hill" for over a decade for the most past. Have you been watching at all? |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 18, 2024 19:29:12 GMT -5
This isn't to say I think Jones is the answer at QB1, IMO he is not and never will be. But reference my post from the other day: Schoen is building the team like a modern franchise. Putting equity into the trenches: protect the QB and passing game. Generate a pass rush with the DL to stop the opposing passing game.
Then add talent at the play making positions.
Then plug the QB in so that they are set up for their best chance of success while playing on a rookie deal. Thus creating a five year window of opportunity.Today's NFL is a passing league. You need to have an offense that is very productive at it and a defense that shuts down the opposing passing attacks. With that comes the price tag for #1 WRs. They are highly coveted. And most successful teams have one great outside WR and one very good one. That said, look at the AAV of the top WRs. They are $27-30M per year. The market for #1 WRs has boomed in the past five years. So not only is WR1 a major need for the Giants it would also behoove us to have them on a rookie deal (plus 5th year option) for five years. Thus making it easier to plug in QB1 and supporting that window of opportunity. if they go back a little they can still get a quality #1 not as good as the top 3 tho and maybe draft their 2nd CB with the second pick they get but what you said makes perfect sense it is actually how teams are building today until thye can get a QB. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Mar 18, 2024 19:30:04 GMT -5
This isn't to say I think Jones is the answer at QB1, IMO he is not and never will be. But reference my post from the other day: Schoen is building the team like a modern franchise. Putting equity into the trenches: protect the QB and passing game. Generate a pass rush with the DL to stop the opposing passing game.
Then add talent at the play making positions.
Then plug the QB in so that they are set up for their best chance of success while playing on a rookie deal. Thus creating a five year window of opportunity.Today's NFL is a passing league. You need to have an offense that is very productive at it and a defense that shuts down the opposing passing attacks. With that comes the price tag for #1 WRs. They are highly coveted. And most successful teams have one great outside WR and one very good one. That said, look at the AAV of the top WRs. They are $27-30M per year. The market for #1 WRs has boomed in the past five years. So not only is WR1 a major need for the Giants it would also behoove us to have them on a rookie deal (plus 5th year option) for five years. Thus making it easier to plug in QB1 and supporting that window of opportunity. The way things look to me we might very well wind up with either Odunze or Nabors as our !st rd pick. I think it's pretty obvious were going QB or WR. The QB grab is obviously going to dictate who's left to choose from. I would be looking QB but if Schoen doesn't like who's there he should take who he thinks the best available WR is. I wonder if Mara has said were going with DJ ? |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 18, 2024 19:33:26 GMT -5
How can say the Giants are building a better offense when the Giants have lost a ton games since mid-season after Schoen and Daboll were hired? Team has been gong downhill ever since. Guess you're unaware of that. . I guess you trust the process. what? This team has sucked for over a decade with two exception years. 2022 being one of them. The have been "down hill" for over a decade for the most past. Have you been watching at all? As long as they don't have a QB it will be like that when they get a QB that can make every throw and challenges the whole field regularly not 12 or 15 times year. When that changes and they get a kid with arm and confidence to get that done they will start to win, if they build a good team and plug that kind of QB into a good roster they will win. |
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te88
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Post by te88 on Mar 18, 2024 19:34:57 GMT -5
I would be happy with Bowers, Nabers, or Odunze at 6.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 18, 2024 19:36:16 GMT -5
I think people put WAY too much stock in the "QB on a rookie deal" thought process. How many teams with QBs on rookie deals have won the SB? Not a lot. With that said I think they go WR at #6 because that is the biggest glaring giant hole on this roster and the players that are the (likely) best available line up perfectly with that. There are two other possible options IMO and that is QB, but I don't think the talent lines up with the draft position and I think this staff has more faith in Jones than the fans do. The other option being OL but this is more about the talent there than anything. All Know is they need a QB that can make every throw and have confidence to to use that arm then they will start to really win |
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miggs
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Post by miggs on Mar 18, 2024 19:41:28 GMT -5
How can say the Giants are building a better offense when the Giants have lost a ton games since mid-season after Schoen and Daboll were hired? Team has been gong downhill ever since. Guess you're unaware of that. . I guess you trust the process. what? This team has sucked for over a decade with two exception years. 2022 being one of them. The have been "down hill" for over a decade for the most past. Have you been watching at all? They sucked for a decade because they had a bad front office and bad HC's. That supposedly changed in 2022. Going back beyond that is irrelevant. |
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miggs
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Post by miggs on Mar 18, 2024 19:42:58 GMT -5
I think people put WAY too much stock in the "QB on a rookie deal" thought process. How many teams with QBs on rookie deals have won the SB? Not a lot. With that said I think they go WR at #6 because that is the biggest glaring giant hole on this roster and the players that are the (likely) best available line up perfectly with that. There are two other possible options IMO and that is QB, but I don't think the talent lines up with the draft position and I think this staff has more faith in Jones than the fans do. The other option being OL but this is more about the talent there than anything. All Know is they need a QB that can make every throw and have confidence to to use that arm then they will start to really win We'll see if Schoen agrees with you. Doubt he does in the first round. Could be a bad mistake if he does. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 18, 2024 19:50:24 GMT -5
This isn't to say I think Jones is the answer at QB1, IMO he is not and never will be. But reference my post from the other day: Schoen is building the team like a modern franchise. Putting equity into the trenches: protect the QB and passing game. Generate a pass rush with the DL to stop the opposing passing game.
Then add talent at the play making positions.
Then plug the QB in so that they are set up for their best chance of success while playing on a rookie deal. Thus creating a five year window of opportunity.Today's NFL is a passing league. You need to have an offense that is very productive at it and a defense that shuts down the opposing passing attacks. With that comes the price tag for #1 WRs. They are highly coveted. And most successful teams have one great outside WR and one very good one. That said, look at the AAV of the top WRs. They are $27-30M per year. The market for #1 WRs has boomed in the past five years. So not only is WR1 a major need for the Giants it would also behoove us to have them on a rookie deal (plus 5th year option) for five years. Thus making it easier to plug in QB1 and supporting that window of opportunity. How can say the Giants are building a better offense when the Giants have lost a ton games since mid-season after Schoen and Daboll were hired? Because I'm not a moron like you who can only look in the past. But thanks for the reply that has nothing to do with my post/thread. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 18, 2024 19:52:25 GMT -5
I think people put WAY too much stock in the "QB on a rookie deal" thought process. How many teams with QBs on rookie deals have won the SB? Not a lot. With that said I think they go WR at #6 because that is the biggest glaring giant hole on this roster and the players that are the (likely) best available line up perfectly with that. There are two other possible options IMO and that is QB, but I don't think the talent lines up with the draft position and I think this staff has more faith in Jones than the fans do. The other option being OL but this is more about the talent there than anything. The biggest glaring hole is QB1. But the chances of Nabers or Odunze becoming a highly productive pro is more likely than any QB we're picking at 6. (or IMHO any of the top QBs this year) |
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Post by GameTime on Mar 18, 2024 19:52:41 GMT -5
what? This team has sucked for over a decade with two exception years. 2022 being one of them. The have been "down hill" for over a decade for the most past. Have you been watching at all? They sucked for a decade because they had a bad front office and bad HC's. That supposedly changed in 2022. Going back beyond that is irrelevant. you said they have been going down hill since Schoen and Daboll were hired. They turned chicken shit into chicken sald in 2022 and back into chicken shit in 2023. Not sure what your point is about going down hill since they got here. Anyway....it really doesnt matter because they will be around for two more years at least. They gambled on Jones and lost. Oh well. I was convinced Jones was the guy after 2022. Thought he turned a corner. He didnt. He will be gone in 2025. They will be drafting a QB this season or next or both. the FA signings and draft are trying build the team form the inside out |
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Post by giantbob71 on Mar 18, 2024 19:53:23 GMT -5
As much as I want to move on from DJ, I'm fine with taking a WR at 6. What I don't want to see is Schoen use the Giants 2025 1st round pick (or even a 2nd) to trade back in to the 1st for Nix or Penix. If he did, I could easily see this being a Carolina situation, where they give up the 1st pick (top 3?) in the draft next year.
I'll say this, if Schoen/Daboll don't get their QB of the future, they better have an assurance of job security, from Mara.
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Post by giantbob71 on Mar 18, 2024 20:00:14 GMT -5
I think people put WAY too much stock in the "QB on a rookie deal" thought process. How many teams with QBs on rookie deals have won the SB? Not a lot. With that said I think they go WR at #6 because that is the biggest glaring giant hole on this roster and the players that are the (likely) best available line up perfectly with that. There are two other possible options IMO and that is QB, but I don't think the talent lines up with the draft position and I think this staff has more faith in Jones than the fans do. The other option being OL but this is more about the talent there than anything. QB on a rookie deal isn't about winning the SB, it's about not having a $47 million QB cap hit while trying to rebuild a roster. If Schoen had $40ish million more to spend, he could've also signed SB, X, and Onwenu, with some trickeration. I think most Giants' fans would prefer that over DJ alone. |
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Post by McCherry on Mar 18, 2024 20:12:37 GMT -5
Not if McCarthy is still there.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 18, 2024 20:14:50 GMT -5
Not if McCarthy is still there. I just grin and shake my head about McCarthy being drafted 6th overall. Around November anyone who suggested that would have been laughed at nonstop. |
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Post by McCherry on Mar 18, 2024 20:18:49 GMT -5
Not if McCarthy is still there. I just grin and shake my head about McCarthy being drafted 6th overall. Around November anyone who suggested that would have been laughed at nonstop. I don't disagree, but it wouldn't be the first time that happened. I honestly think there's even a chance he goes higher, then your prediction may come true. |
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giantsalmon
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Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
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Post by giantsalmon on Mar 18, 2024 20:31:32 GMT -5
Not if McCarthy is still there. I really think this is the only QB they would draft in the 1st round. Whether thats at 6 remains to be seen and I do think otherwise they are taking a WR very early. My Fave is clearly Odunze for many reasons. |
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Modog
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Post by Modog on Mar 18, 2024 20:34:15 GMT -5
This isn't to say I think Jones is the answer at QB1, IMO he is not and never will be. But reference my post from the other day: Schoen is building the team like a modern franchise. Putting equity into the trenches: protect the QB and passing game. Generate a pass rush with the DL to stop the opposing passing game.
Then add talent at the play making positions.
Then plug the QB in so that they are set up for their best chance of success while playing on a rookie deal. Thus creating a five year window of opportunity.Today's NFL is a passing league. You need to have an offense that is very productive at it and a defense that shuts down the opposing passing attacks. With that comes the price tag for #1 WRs. They are highly coveted. And most successful teams have one great outside WR and one very good one. That said, look at the AAV of the top WRs. They are $27-30M per year. The market for #1 WRs has boomed in the past five years. So not only is WR1 a major need for the Giants it would also behoove us to have them on a rookie deal (plus 5th year option) for five years. Thus making it easier to plug in QB1 and supporting that window of opportunity. I agree with this. Barring a move for QB which I doubt they will go given the drop off talent after the top 3...they almost have to go WR just for the simple fact the offense is completely bereft of fire power. Imagine a WR group of <Harrison Jr| Nabers | Odunze>, Wandale, Hyatt, Slayton. I hate it, but unfortunately we are staring at year 6 of the failed Dan Jones experiment. Makes me shutter just thinking about it. |
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Post by McCherry on Mar 18, 2024 20:36:53 GMT -5
Not if McCarthy is still there. I really think this is the only QB they would draft in the 1st round. Whether thats at 6 remains to be seen and I do think otherwise they are taking a WR very early. My Fave is clearly Odunze for many reasons. I don't see how you go into the season only with Jones/Lock and expect to keep your jobs. And they gave away their high second round pick, so unless they get lucky, even having a shot at Penix/Nix isn't very good. |
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cdngfan
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Post by cdngfan on Mar 18, 2024 22:08:17 GMT -5
1. I think WR or trade down are my guesses at #6. I think the top 3 QBs are a lock and I think other teams with WRs better than ours are ready to bet the farm to move up. A great WR corps can help a rookie QB or attract an FA. Seems a lot cheaper to add an available WR without having to throw in other picks
2. They could like JJ, but not enough to get into a bidding war to move up for him. If #5 is willing to slide out if the top 10 for an extra 1st rd pick, we may not be able to move up anyway.
3. I think they need to come out of the first 2 rds with starters. I don’t really think it matters who they are, provided there’s some positional value. They can’t get so fixated on need that they pass over obvious starter talent for a project. And they can’t crud up the WR pick either.
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Post by bavarobeast on Mar 18, 2024 22:49:50 GMT -5
It wouldn’t surprise me or upset me if they did. Daniel Jones ain’t it though regardless of what the Giants foolishly invested in him.
If McCarthy - Daniels - Maye are available I would hate to pass them up.
I would prefer Bowers over both the WR you mentioned. He is a WR in a TE body. Jasen Whitten Travis Kelce type - as far as being reliable pests and headaches for defense and a great comfort target for Jones.
Odunze wouldn’t kill me - no thanks to Nabors.
I’d rather trade back if not getting a QB and get an extra pick - OL and WR DT RB in the first 3 rounds with an extra 2nd
🤷♂️
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Post by Nite on Mar 18, 2024 23:55:29 GMT -5
If a desired qb is available at 6 and we pick a wr...
Then Schoen should get canned at the end of 2024 season. That is if we don't make the playoffs..
Fans are overthinking this. Its like buying a car but the engine's blown, so instead of a new engine we put in a killer stereo system with 22 inch wheels. Looks cool, pisses off the neighbors and that fancy stereo (edit: infotainment) system will come in handy when you call roadside assistant when your stuck on I95 during rush hour
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Post by hadenough on Mar 19, 2024 5:46:14 GMT -5
I had to chuckle with ‘Schoen is building this like a modern franchise. Building oline and pass rush’.
That is exactly how the Giants won 4 superbowls. Solid oline. Great pass rush. That’s been working forever.
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 19, 2024 6:27:37 GMT -5
I believe that if Maye, Daniels or McCarthy is available, we're going QB, otherwise it will be Odunze or Nabers (I think MHJ will be the first position player off the boards and not available, or I'd snatch him up in a heartbeat) I will be disappointed if we blow additional draft capital to move up, with all the holes we have, unless its a 3rd or lower, and I don't think that happens.
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Post by Jomo on Mar 19, 2024 6:39:45 GMT -5
This is my feeling, we have too much invested financially in Jones this year to make a move for one of the top QBs in the first round. Seems to make the most sense to go for a top end WR which seems to be right there on big boards everywhere for the 6th pick. If jones plays bad like he did for most of the 5 games he played last year.. then we'll have a top draft pick next year if there is a good QB we like. If he plays well.. then we can re-evaluate. Continue building a supporting cast though for jones and most likely a rookie QB in the near future. That's right, if he plays well great if not, we'll have a top 10 pick again next year and we can go for a QB. The reason to not do that this year is our roster is still very depleted and burning 3 picks to get a QB (who has only a 50% chance of succeeding) makes no sense right now. |
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