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Post by inthezone on Mar 19, 2024 8:50:54 GMT -5
Agree. But both things can be true at the same time. He’s definitely trying to fix the line. His method makes the most sense to me compared to signing Hunt and drafting Alt. I like JS’ way of doing it better. But the only thing that matters is it has to work. Same thing with drafting a QB. I just don’t get the “we must draft a QB”. We must draft starters. If that includes a QB, awesome, because we have a pretty big need at the position. But JS shouldn’t get credit for drafting a QB. That’s not the goal. Same thing with attempting to fix the line. To be clear, I like what he’s done. It plans for multiple outcomes. That’s a theme of his. Of course JS is trying to fix the OL. So did Gettleman and every GM before him. Only time tells if they do it right. I would definitely move Neal to G at this point. He just isnt quick enough off the snap to stop the outside speed rushers. Hopefully putting him in a box in the middle he uses his raw strength to push the Dline. He took last season off unless you want to claim drafting a 2nd round Center as enough effort. This year I like what he has done but still hope he drafts oline within the top three picks.
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Post by inthezone on Mar 19, 2024 8:52:05 GMT -5
At least everyone has to admit that whether it works or not the O line is being addressed by Schoen. Agree. But both things can be true at the same time. He’s definitely trying to fix the line. His method makes the most sense to me compared to signing Hunt and drafting Alt. I like JS’ way of doing it better. But the only thing that matters is it has to work. Same thing with drafting a QB. I just don’t get the “we must draft a QB”. We must draft starters. If that includes a QB, awesome, because we have a pretty big need at the position. But JS shouldn’t get credit for drafting a QB. That’s not the goal. Same thing with attempting to fix the line. To be clear, I like what he’s done. It plans for multiple outcomes. That’s a theme of his. Who knows he might still draft Alt or trade back and pick another olineman.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 19, 2024 8:53:54 GMT -5
Far fetched by Ranaan imo.
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Post by cdngfan on Mar 19, 2024 9:00:51 GMT -5
Agree. But both things can be true at the same time. He’s definitely trying to fix the line. His method makes the most sense to me compared to signing Hunt and drafting Alt. I like JS’ way of doing it better. But the only thing that matters is it has to work. Same thing with drafting a QB. I just don’t get the “we must draft a QB”. We must draft starters. If that includes a QB, awesome, because we have a pretty big need at the position. But JS shouldn’t get credit for drafting a QB. That’s not the goal. Same thing with attempting to fix the line. To be clear, I like what he’s done. It plans for multiple outcomes. That’s a theme of his. Of course JS is trying to fix the OL. So did Gettleman and every GM before him. Only time tells if they do it right. I would definitely move Neal to G at this point. He just isnt quick enough off the snap to stop the outside speed rushers. Hopefully putting him in a box in the middle he uses his raw strength to push the Dline. Exactly. I’m doubtful he plays better closer to the middle but we’ll see. They’re not waiting for him, that’s the point. They already anticipate he’s not going to beat out Eluemenor at RT. I’d say that’s a safe bet
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Mar 19, 2024 9:02:00 GMT -5
At least everyone has to admit that whether it works or not the O line is being addressed by Schoen. The O line was addressed by Gettlemen in the draft and in FA but it failed each time. But it was addressed.
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wtfjjk
Special Teams
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Post by wtfjjk on Mar 19, 2024 9:15:14 GMT -5
The only issue is, Neal said he was the RT and sounded as if he was disinterested in moving. Hope that changes. He stinks his first 2 years at RT. Like he should be flippin burgers with us. I hope he's not going back on his word because when he was drafted he said he'd play anywhere.
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,964
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Post by te88 on Mar 19, 2024 9:20:57 GMT -5
Left Guard?Giants reach out to Neal about the move to LG. ESPN’s Jordan Raanan reports that the Giants have reached out to Neal’s team to discuss the possibility of him moving to guard. More specifically, to left guard alongside Andrew Thomas. The 100 million + contracts given to guards this offseason should help him to accept this. It is the right move for him and the Giants. No brainer.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 19, 2024 9:24:37 GMT -5
Left Guard?Giants reach out to Neal about the move to LG. ESPN’s Jordan Raanan reports that the Giants have reached out to Neal’s team to discuss the possibility of him moving to guard. More specifically, to left guard alongside Andrew Thomas. The 100 million + contracts given to guards this offseason should help him to accept this. It is the right move for him and the Giants. No brainer. I'm sorry....We need his permission?
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Post by McCherry on Mar 19, 2024 9:55:44 GMT -5
I don't know any example of that situation, but they would never cut him. They'd fine him week to week for refusing to play. Neal isn't stupid. He'll agree to play where they tell him to before wrecking his own career after two seasons. Toney, Apple, Baker, Flowers... disgruntled 1st round picks. Well, those were just players with serious character flaws that existed before we drafted them. Flowers we only moved from LT to RT, he had every opportunity to succeed, he just wasn't good at either. He could've been moved to Guard, but that was the coaches decision.
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Post by shocknaweny on Mar 19, 2024 10:11:58 GMT -5
It is Ereck Flowers all over again
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Post by myronguyton29 on Mar 19, 2024 10:18:27 GMT -5
It is Ereck Flowers all over again lol say it ain't sooooooooooo............ I think he'll get it done at G this year. If he doesn't then we can safely say it is Flowers all over again and we should be banned from ever drafting another T in the draft lmfao.........
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te88
Special Teams
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Post by te88 on Mar 19, 2024 10:23:03 GMT -5
The 100 million + contracts given to guards this offseason should help him to accept this. It is the right move for him and the Giants. No brainer. I'm sorry....We need his permission? I hope not. But at least the Giants can quickly quash any sour grapes by pointing to those deals.
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Post by Kruunch on Mar 19, 2024 10:56:19 GMT -5
Approached.. More like told him.. If not for his draft spot he would have been playing left out.. This is a last ditch effort that most players never get. To resurrect a young career that is breathing on a vent. The Andrew Thomas comparisons which were pathetic as they were weak. Ended once it was realized that Neal plays on roller skates.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Mar 19, 2024 11:13:32 GMT -5
The only issue is, Neal said he was the RT and sounded as if he was disinterested in moving. Hope that changes. He stinks his first 2 years at RT. Like he should be flippin burgers with us. He would kill his free agency pay day if he stays at RT....
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 19, 2024 11:31:38 GMT -5
Toney, Apple, Baker, Flowers... disgruntled 1st round picks. LOL, context would be nice. Could you expand on the reasons for them being disgruntle? Many reasons, but they all at times acted like 7 year olds.
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Post by imgrate on Mar 19, 2024 11:35:22 GMT -5
Hope it works out. Overal OL Pass protection should be much better.. how well he’ll perform in run game and pulls and such, who knows.
Think this still leaves us needing another mid level guard/tackle. Would be good to have a quality backup for when (not if) injuries happen.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 19, 2024 11:36:33 GMT -5
Toney, Apple, Baker, Flowers... disgruntled 1st round picks. Well, those were just players with severe character flaws that existed before we drafted them. Flowers we only moved from LT to RT, he had every opportunity to succeed, he just wasn't good at either. He could've been moved to Guard, but that was the coaches decision. Flowers had severe character flaws?
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Post by McCherry on Mar 19, 2024 12:51:01 GMT -5
Well, those were just players with severe character flaws that existed before we drafted them. Flowers we only moved from LT to RT, he had every opportunity to succeed, he just wasn't good at either. He could've been moved to Guard, but that was the coaches decision. Flowers had severe character flaws? Just a few.
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Post by scoostraw on Mar 19, 2024 13:25:23 GMT -5
ESPN’s Jordan Raanan reports that the Giants have reached out to Neal’s teamThis cracks me up. Who the **** do these guys think they are?
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Post by Analyst on Mar 19, 2024 13:25:47 GMT -5
I still wonder how much Neals injuries are causing his poor performance. Playing on a cracked bone in your ankle has to be tough out there.
Normally, I would say give him a 3rd year to see if it clicks at RT, but have a backup plan ready, and it appears we do right now.
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Post by Nick6475 on Mar 19, 2024 14:26:02 GMT -5
I still wonder how much Neals injuries are causing his poor performance. Playing on a cracked bone in your ankle has to be tough out there. Normally, I would say give him a 3rd year to see if it clicks at RT, but have a backup plan ready, and it appears we do right now. Add in the fact that he has to learn another OL position (I know he played there before, but it was college and a while ago). Giants draft a LT and put him at RT. Sucks for 2 years at RT and they move him to LG. How many games/years does he get if he is not great at LG? No idea how hard it is to keep switching positions, but I can't imagine it is as easy a switch as we are making it out to be.
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Post by inthezone on Mar 19, 2024 14:31:38 GMT -5
I still wonder how much Neals injuries are causing his poor performance. Playing on a cracked bone in your ankle has to be tough out there. Normally, I would say give him a 3rd year to see if it clicks at RT, but have a backup plan ready, and it appears we do right now. Add in the fact that he has to learn another OL position (I know he played there before, but it was college and a while ago). Giants draft a LT and put him at RT. Sucks for 2 years at RT and they move him to LG. How many games/years does he get if he is not great at LG? No idea how hard it is to keep switching positions, but I can't imagine it is as easy a switch as we are making it out to be. Players on the oline all seem to be versatile in the NFL. The team just signed two players that both can be moved to a different spot and neither of them were regarded as a prospect anywhere close to as good as Neal. Not sure why some of the fans out here are making this out to be some incredible feat to accomplish.
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Post by Analyst on Mar 19, 2024 14:58:09 GMT -5
Add in the fact that he has to learn another OL position (I know he played there before, but it was college and a while ago). Giants draft a LT and put him at RT. Sucks for 2 years at RT and they move him to LG. How many games/years does he get if he is not great at LG? No idea how hard it is to keep switching positions, but I can't imagine it is as easy a switch as we are making it out to be. Players on the oline all seem to be versatile in the NFL. The team just signed two players that both can be moved to a different spot and neither of them were regarded as a prospect anywhere close to as good as Neal. Not sure why some of the fans out here are making this out to be some incredible feat to accomplish. There is some difference between the middle of the line and the outside tackles. Definitely need quicker feet/reaction off the line on the outside. And IMO, need to have more lower core strength in the middle of the line (depending on the style of offense). Also, moving from LT to RT or visa-versa can be difficult as well. One side of the body might not be as quick/strong as the other. Its similar to being a switch hitter in baseball. Sure, there are some SHs, but most stay lefty or righty because that's their strength, that's their muscle memory. One more thing, a C is different from a G and requires more skillset and concentration to snap a ball and read defenses. That is why some players are better in their positions on the OL as opposed to others. Not everyone is a David Diehl.
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Post by inthezone on Mar 19, 2024 15:06:45 GMT -5
Players on the oline all seem to be versatile in the NFL. The team just signed two players that both can be moved to a different spot and neither of them were regarded as a prospect anywhere close to as good as Neal. Not sure why some of the fans out here are making this out to be some incredible feat to accomplish. There is some difference between the middle of the line and the outside tackles. Definitely need quicker feet/reaction off the line on the outside. And IMO, need to have more lower core strength in the middle of the line (depending on the style of offense). Also, moving from LT to RT or visa-versa can be difficult as well. One side of the body might not be as quick/strong as the other. Its similar to being a switch hitter in baseball. Sure, there are some SHs, but most stay lefty or righty because that's their strength, that's their muscle memory. One more thing, a C is different from a G and requires more skillset and concentration to snap a ball and read defenses. That is why some players are better in their positions on the OL as opposed to others. Not everyone is a David Diehl. Thanks for summing this up but I still say I don't understand why some are so worried about Neal moving like it's going to take a few more years of hopeful and painful development. It seems that most oline players in the NFL especially on the interior play multiple positions so Diehl isn't special enough for you to point have to him out.
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Post by PennState1 on Mar 19, 2024 15:44:55 GMT -5
I hope it works because he has been horrible at Tackle. My concern is his toughness and aggressiveness let alone his tech. If he is tough and aggressive I haven’t seen it. If he is soft, it doesn’t matter where you put him. He appears to be slow and soft to me but I could be wrong.
I wonder if the Giants have been putting more emphasis on intelligence (a great trait obviously) over toughness, aggression and nasty attitude when drafting? We need some disciplined, yet nasty road graders.
Sucks when a first rounder doesn’t work out. I would assume the temptation is to give the guy many more chances that you would a player drafted in later rounds.
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Post by PennState1 on Mar 19, 2024 15:45:46 GMT -5
It is Ereck Flowers all over again So far absolutely
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,964
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Post by te88 on Mar 19, 2024 16:26:57 GMT -5
It is Ereck Flowers all over again Thing is the Giants probably could have salvaged a passable NfL career out of Flowers had they moved him to guard early. They were pig headed about making him a tackle because he was an “aircraft carrier” I can accept not making a great draft pick but it pisses me off when orgs can’t swallow their pride and at least try to salvage something out of players.
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giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,899
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Post by giantsalmon on Mar 19, 2024 20:00:41 GMT -5
It is Ereck Flowers all over again Thing is the Giants probably could have salvaged a passable NfL career out of Flowers had they moved him to guard early. They were pig headed about making him a tackle because he was an “aircraft carrier” I can accept not making a great draft pick but it pisses me off when orgs can’t swallow their pride and at least try to salvage something out of players. Pretty sure he ended up playing guard against NYG anyway. We saw it, then his next team put him there. As down on Neal as I have been I really think he will succeed at guard.
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Post by allnygin on Mar 19, 2024 20:06:17 GMT -5
He can't be a tackle in this league. I've seen nothing that indicates there is any upward trajectory for him at tackle he's to slow against speedy guys. If he has any shot at becoming a starter in this league it might just be guard
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Post by Analyst on Mar 20, 2024 10:12:12 GMT -5
There is some difference between the middle of the line and the outside tackles. Definitely need quicker feet/reaction off the line on the outside. And IMO, need to have more lower core strength in the middle of the line (depending on the style of offense). Also, moving from LT to RT or visa-versa can be difficult as well. One side of the body might not be as quick/strong as the other. Its similar to being a switch hitter in baseball. Sure, there are some SHs, but most stay lefty or righty because that's their strength, that's their muscle memory. One more thing, a C is different from a G and requires more skillset and concentration to snap a ball and read defenses. That is why some players are better in their positions on the OL as opposed to others. Not everyone is a David Diehl. Thanks for summing this up but I still say I don't understand why some are so worried about Neal moving like it's going to take a few more years of hopeful and painful development. It seems that most oline players in the NFL especially on the interior play multiple positions so Diehl isn't special enough for you to point have to him out. Diehl was special because he played all positions well. He jumped in from G to LT for us without a drop in production. That is VERY hard to do. Now, the easiest transition might be LG-RG. And those Gs might be able to play C if they are smart enough and can snap a football. Not all can. Moving from G to T is very difficult as I point out there are different skillsets. Not many can do that at all. Going form OT to G might be an easier transition, especially for Neal, since he seems to already be a better G based on his skillset. There will be a learning period if they do it mid season, but doing it NOW would allow him to go all through the training and practices and preseason to adjust. Obviously no player is the same so some it would take longer than others.
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