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Post by Nite on Apr 27, 2024 18:48:15 GMT -5
For those who don't understand sarcasm. My actual grade:
C
We got a decent WR, I like the RB and the TE is ok (I think) Outside of that if no QB then at least get to the QB, one FA guy won't cut it and we ignored the OL which is still THE biggest need on the team. And this was an OL rich draft. We also didn't trade down to get more picks as other teams did
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Post by inthezone on Apr 27, 2024 18:49:02 GMT -5
B+ Would like to get at least one guard maybe with the 4th rounder. With the addition of Burns I think addressing the secondary in this draft was a good move.
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southerner
Starter
Bearer of Bad News
Posts: 4,226
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Post by southerner on Apr 27, 2024 18:50:57 GMT -5
He will have an average DJ year; 16 TD, 6 int, 4 fumbles and 2 rushing TDs this with all of our 'weapons' The Giants have been bad for so long that any mediocrity we get is vastly overstated. IMO, Blake Bortles is the perfect comp to 8. Two guys who got the 💰 after a playoff run with both teams immediately regretting that investment. Okay, but you don’t draft some dud QB to replace him…..you draft a great replacement, or pick a stud in another position……that is exactly what Schoen did.
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Post by DonnieYen on Apr 27, 2024 18:54:53 GMT -5
Picking the wrong QB destroys franchises. We are now on Year 6 and I see a bare shit roster. We will start over again after this season. This team has zero chance of making the playoffs We certainly have figured that out the hard way. Reach or not, they simply did not address their biggest needs in my mind at this draft. Trust me bro, I want to be wrong and for us to field a contending franchise. I think all our picks were needs a problem this year we only had 5 picks we had to make each pick count.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 27, 2024 18:55:00 GMT -5
You keep saying this but you still haven’t answered my questions from the other day. Those of us who wanted him to address QB sure catch a lot of shit but those criticizing us don’t give us their outlook or plan for the future. Easy to point fingers and criticize without solutions or answers. Easy answer……you build up the team with real studs at different positions so when you do have a shot at a possible franchise QB, he can step in and flourish. The Giants brought in DJ, and the team was a total dumpster fire, and he got slaughtered for 5 years. Look at this way……if DJ and the other QBs suck this year, the Giants will be drafting high next year with a very good WR corps, and improved offensive line and a really good defense. At that point they can go for the top slot. Now, imagine what happens if DJ, or one of the other two QBs crush……..then next year the Giants can really crush. Is it that easy? How many “franchise” QB’s have turned out to be busts? How many franchise QB’s are in every draft? Typically teams that have a shot at a franchise QB are picking in the top 3 because they have a shitty roster and QB. If we have real studs and the team is built up, even DJ should get us 8-10 wins which would put us picking in the mid to late teens. Do you know how much it would cost us just to have a shot at moving up for a franchise QB, if a team is even willing to trade? And still the potential for him to be a bust or just average is still quite high. I’m sure there will be a QB or 2 that rise next year and MAY be considered a franchise QB but as of now, Sanders is considered the top dawg. Think about that. You guys make it seem so easy. In reality, the best and only hope is DJ does actually crush it, not just better than he has been. We’re all hoping that’s what happens, some of us just aren’t convinced he can do it all and some give him a small chance. I’m trying to remain optimistic so I’ll give him about a 5-10% chance he can be a franchise QB but what I see happening is an improvement from what we’ve seen (which isn’t hard to do, Tyrod did it) with another season of excuses of why he can be better.
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Post by DonnieYen on Apr 27, 2024 18:56:30 GMT -5
The Giants have been bad for so long that any mediocrity we get is vastly overstated. IMO, Blake Bortles is the perfect comp to 8. Two guys who got the 💰 after a playoff run with both teams immediately regretting that investment. Okay, but you don’t draft some dud QB to replace him…..you draft a great replacement, or pick a stud in another position……that is exactly what Schoen did. I think JJ has all the potential in the world 🌎🌍
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Post by giants8493 on Apr 27, 2024 18:57:16 GMT -5
I think the te giants will be good but I'm not sold on the DBs
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Post by vinnie on Apr 27, 2024 19:01:07 GMT -5
I could see 8 having an average to slightly above average year but clearly not enough to get us to the big dance and Schoen and Co keep him around another year or two because he didn’t shit the bed and we’re picking too far back to get a QB they like. That would also be enough to save their jobs for awhile. This would actually be the worst case scenario IMO. Surround him with all the talent in the world, put up decent regular season stats but never franchise caliber. I’m sure some fans would be thrilled with this outcome as they continue making excuses for him. I don’t wish injuries on anyone, but with his injury history and lack of making good decisions, I could also see him getting hurt and collecting the 25 million which would also force Schoen to draft a QB that he probably won’t like and have to give up too much for or overpaying/trading for a FA (ie Cousins). Either way, both scenarios suck. He will have an average DJ year; 16 TD, 6 int, 4 fumbles and 2 rushing TDs this with all of our 'weapons' I think he’ll be better than that by a bit, how could he not with all the additions? Nabers alone should cover that, and if he doesn’t, something is seriously wrong.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 27, 2024 19:04:08 GMT -5
JJ McCarthy = Mac Jones Penix = Matt Leinart Nix = Sam Darnold Didn’t you also say DJ would be benched by ~game 10 two years ago, you were quite adamant about it from what I remember.
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Post by Analyst on Apr 27, 2024 19:04:23 GMT -5
C+ ish
I like Nabers a lot, and I like Nubin at Safety, but other than that, headscratcher.
No OL? Really? Big named guards were there in the 2nd/3rd.
No shot at a QB? I would have at the very least tried Rattler or Milton later on.
Just a weird draft to me.
Time to start dialing in on the 2025 QBs. Unless Lock blows up, we will be searching.
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Post by inthezone on Apr 27, 2024 19:06:17 GMT -5
Easy answer……you build up the team with real studs at different positions so when you do have a shot at a possible franchise QB, he can step in and flourish. The Giants brought in DJ, and the team was a total dumpster fire, and he got slaughtered for 5 years. Look at this way……if DJ and the other QBs suck this year, the Giants will be drafting high next year with a very good WR corps, and improved offensive line and a really good defense. At that point they can go for the top slot. Now, imagine what happens if DJ, or one of the other two QBs crush……..then next year the Giants can really crush. Is that easy? How many “franchise” QB’s have turned out to be busts? How many franchise QB’s are in every draft? Typically teams that have a shot a franchise QB are picking in the top 3 because they have a shitty roster and QB. If we have real studs and the team is built up, even DJ should get us 8-10 wins which would put us picking in the mid to late teens. Do you know how much it would cost us just to have a shot at moving up for a franchise QB, if team is even willing to trade? And still the potential for him to be a bust or just average is still quite high. I’m sure there will be a QB or 2 that rise next year and MAY be considered franchise QB but as of now, Sanders is considered the top dawg. Think about that. You guys make it seem so easy. In reality, the best and only hope is DJ does actually crush it, not just better than he has been. We’re all hoping that’s what happens, some of us just aren’t convinced he can do it all and some give him a small chance. I’m trying to remain optimistic so I’ll give him about a 5-10% chance he can be a franchise QB but what I see is an improvement from what we’ve seen (which isn’t hard to do, Tyrod did it) with another season of excuses of why he can be better. All this focus about franchise QB is making you miss the point that this team is a 8 win team with an easy schedule no matter who's the QB because this defense is looking better and when the oline stays healthy they should be a big improvement from awful. No matter what this year of Jones was going to happen when he signed the contract.
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Post by Nite on Apr 27, 2024 19:12:06 GMT -5
He will have an average DJ year; 16 TD, 6 int, 4 fumbles and 2 rushing TDs this with all of our 'weapons' I think he’ll be better than that by a bit, how could he not with all the additions? Nabers alone should cover that, and if he doesn’t, something is seriously wrong. I hope so, but I have no faith in him. He hit his ceiling in 2022. As of this moment Lock is the best QB on the team and he is a journeyman
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Post by Danke Schoen on Apr 27, 2024 19:20:42 GMT -5
Reaching for a QB “because we need a QB” is exactly what got us into this mess. You keep saying this but you still haven’t answered my questions from the other day. Those of us who wanted him to address QB sure catch a lot of shit but those criticizing us don’t give us their outlook or plan for the future. Easy to point fingers and criticize without solutions or answers. I've provided my (which means nothing in the long run) solution. Build the team then plug the QB in 2025 after Jones is released. Care to address this: thegiantsboard.proboards.com/post/913634Or nah?
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 27, 2024 19:22:58 GMT -5
JJ McCarthy = Mac Jones Penix = Matt Leinart Nix = Sam Darnold Matt Leinhart..I am sad that is your comp. That hurts but Matt only had an average arm. Zach Mattenberg would be a better comp considering he injured his knee and had a cannon for an arm. Still think he is closer to Matt Ryan/Stafford than Mettenberg. His placement on those deeps shot are just fun to watch.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 27, 2024 19:24:39 GMT -5
Is that easy? How many “franchise” QB’s have turned out to be busts? How many franchise QB’s are in every draft? Typically teams that have a shot a franchise QB are picking in the top 3 because they have a shitty roster and QB. If we have real studs and the team is built up, even DJ should get us 8-10 wins which would put us picking in the mid to late teens. Do you know how much it would cost us just to have a shot at moving up for a franchise QB, if team is even willing to trade? And still the potential for him to be a bust or just average is still quite high. I’m sure there will be a QB or 2 that rise next year and MAY be considered franchise QB but as of now, Sanders is considered the top dawg. Think about that. You guys make it seem so easy. In reality, the best and only hope is DJ does actually crush it, not just better than he has been. We’re all hoping that’s what happens, some of us just aren’t convinced he can do it all and some give him a small chance. I’m trying to remain optimistic so I’ll give him about a 5-10% chance he can be a franchise QB but what I see is an improvement from what we’ve seen (which isn’t hard to do, Tyrod did it) with another season of excuses of why he can be better. All this focus about franchise QB is making you miss the point that this team is a 8 win team with an easy schedule no matter who's the QB because this defense is looking better and when the oline stays healthy they should be a big improvement from awful. No matter what this year of Jones was going to happen when he signed the contract. I’m not missing any point, we could have drafted a QB and had him sit a year which I prefer anyways. So if we have at least 8 wins this year and are picking in the low to mid teens, what makes you so confident Schoen will find a QB next year that he actually likes (in an alleged weak QB class), that a team will be willing to trade with us, and that it will be worth the gamble to give up probably more than 2-3 times as much as we allegedly offered NE just to have a shot at a QB? And unless you think this team is fully loaded right now, there will still be important positions to address next year. How long are we going to kick the QB can down the road before you guys want to take a chance on one? Our team could be loaded in 2 years and there’s a good chance we won’t have a shot at franchise QB or even close.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 27, 2024 19:27:03 GMT -5
You keep saying this but you still haven’t answered my questions from the other day. Those of us who wanted him to address QB sure catch a lot of shit but those criticizing us don’t give us their outlook or plan for the future. Easy to point fingers and criticize without solutions or answers. I've provided my (which means nothing in the long run) solution. Build the team then plug the QB in 2025 after Jones is released. Care to address this: thegiantsboard.proboards.com/post/913634Or nah? I already directly answered you within hours, if not minutes after you posted that, look again. And providing your solution didn’t answer my specific questions, you continue to dodge them.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 27, 2024 19:29:08 GMT -5
I think he’ll be better than that by a bit, how could he not with all the additions? Nabers alone should cover that, and if he doesn’t, something is seriously wrong. I hope so, but I have no faith in him. He hit his ceiling in 2022. As of this moment Lock is the best QB on the team and he is a journeyman Unlike some, I definitely can’t fault you for thinking that. I think he’ll put up better numbers than he ever has but it will be clear to some of us he’s still not the guy and better QB’s would do more but his fanbois will consider it a success and make more excuses.
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Post by inthezone on Apr 27, 2024 19:36:51 GMT -5
All this focus about franchise QB is making you miss the point that this team is a 8 win team with an easy schedule no matter who's the QB because this defense is looking better and when the oline stays healthy they should be a big improvement from awful. No matter what this year of Jones was going to happen when he signed the contract. I’m not missing any point, we could have drafted a QB and had him sit a year which I prefer anyways. So if we have at least 8 wins this year and are picking in the low to mid teens, what makes you so confident Schoen will find a QB next year that he actually likes (in an alleged weak QB class), that a team will be willing to trade with us, and that it will be worth the gamble to give up probably more than 2-3 times as much as we allegedly offered NE just to have a shot at a QB? And unless you think this team is fully loaded right now, there will still be important positions to address next year. How long are we going to kick the QB can down the road before you guys want to take a chance on one? Our team could be loaded in 2 years and there’s a good chance we won’t have a shot at franchise QB or even close. Good questions about an unknown future. It has been a new trend that you can add a vet QB to a team and get to the SB so it should be on the table that a vet QB could be signed or traded for in 2025 instead of the rookie route so judging from your response the much better option.
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Post by lasion2 on Apr 27, 2024 19:37:16 GMT -5
I can’t shake the feeling that I watched Howie Roseman pull Schoen’s pants down and spank him for an entire weekend. On national television.
A lot of teams got a lot better. Did the giants? Maybe. A little bit. But, maybe not at all either.
C. Not one lineman. Got jumped or watched runs on better players in positions of need. Does anyone really believe that any of these guys will be on the roster in 5 years? Nabers is the only one that seems like he’ll have any impact at all.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 27, 2024 19:50:30 GMT -5
I’m not missing any point, we could have drafted a QB and had him sit a year which I prefer anyways. So if we have at least 8 wins this year and are picking in the low to mid teens, what makes you so confident Schoen will find a QB next year that he actually likes (in an alleged weak QB class), that a team will be willing to trade with us, and that it will be worth the gamble to give up probably more than 2-3 times as much as we allegedly offered NE just to have a shot at a QB? And unless you think this team is fully loaded right now, there will still be important positions to address next year. How long are we going to kick the QB can down the road before you guys want to take a chance on one? Our team could be loaded in 2 years and there’s a good chance we won’t have a shot at franchise QB or even close. Good questions about an unknown future. It has been a new trend that you can add a vet QB to a team and get to the SB so it should be on the table that a vet QB could be signed or traded for in 2025 instead of the rookie route so judging from your response the much better option. If, IF, DJ plays average I think they keep him because if Schoen didn’t like any of the QB’s available when we picked I doubt there will be one he truly likes available where I think we’ll be picking. I said this in another thread but if they give DJ 2 years and they think the roster is loaded but DJ isn’t getting it done, I could honestly see them trading for Cousins or another high profile vet QB. If the roster is loaded you have to strike quick, which is why I was hoping for a QB this year and have him sit a year, play a year and maybe in year 3 he would be primed. We would probably still have high picks and I think WR’s are easier to find later in the draft anyways. You don’t have time to have a loaded roster, then draft a rookie QB and hope he works out immediately. Sure there are a few cases but they are rare. They would have to get that vet, a known quantity if you will, and go all in like the Rams or Tampa or to a lesser degree, the Lions. I guess you could hope to draft the next Purdy, Wilson, Brady, etc but those guys are rare exceptions and they better have a back up plan
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Post by Nite on Apr 27, 2024 19:56:02 GMT -5
I hope so, but I have no faith in him. He hit his ceiling in 2022. As of this moment Lock is the best QB on the team and he is a journeyman Unlike some, I definitely can’t fault you for thinking that. I think he’ll put up better numbers than he ever has but it will be clear to some of us he’s still not the guy and better QB’s would do more but his fanbois will consider it a success and make more excuses. I hope you are right. But my gut is saying...nope. Its the 6th year genetics say what you are by this point. As for the others I suspect they are really fans of the player rather than the team. Even if he has a superstar season by his standards, it would not be enough
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 27, 2024 20:29:39 GMT -5
I give the draft a solid B. We have bonified starters with our first 2 picks in areas of need, our 3rd 4th and 5th rounders should be solid contributors and our 6th looks like a good special teamer at least. I'm a bit surprised we didn't pick a single O lineman in the draft, but looks like we are signing a few as UFA's, and I'm guessing our FA signings had a big impact in that path. I really like both the Nubin and Nabers picks, and being 1 and 2, those are the most important.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 27, 2024 20:44:17 GMT -5
C- from me. Whenever you walk out of a draft without addressing your biggest needs (QB, oline, dline IMO), you don't win it. Time will tell of course, but I'm not walking out of this draft feeling stoked. I would have liked an attempt to draft Spencer Rattler. But I suppose they are happy with Lock/DeVito......and I suppose what's left of Daniel Jones. I pretty much like this draft otherwise. Rattler is terrible and is a douche to boot. Wanted nothing to do with him
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njsean
Special Teams
Posts: 450
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Post by njsean on Apr 27, 2024 21:02:29 GMT -5
Easy answer……you build up the team with real studs at different positions so when you do have a shot at a possible franchise QB, he can step in and flourish. The Giants brought in DJ, and the team was a total dumpster fire, and he got slaughtered for 5 years. Look at this way……if DJ and the other QBs suck this year, the Giants will be drafting high next year with a very good WR corps, and improved offensive line and a really good defense. At that point they can go for the top slot. Now, imagine what happens if DJ, or one of the other two QBs crush……..then next year the Giants can really crush. Is it that easy? How many “franchise” QB’s have turned out to be busts? How many franchise QB’s are in every draft? Typically teams that have a shot at a franchise QB are picking in the top 3 because they have a shitty roster and QB. If we have real studs and the team is built up, even DJ should get us 8-10 wins which would put us picking in the mid to late teens. Do you know how much it would cost us just to have a shot at moving up for a franchise QB, if a team is even willing to trade? And still the potential for him to be a bust or just average is still quite high. I’m sure there will be a QB or 2 that rise next year and MAY be considered a franchise QB but as of now, Sanders is considered the top dawg. Think about that. You guys make it seem so easy. In reality, the best and only hope is DJ does actually crush it, not just better than he has been. We’re all hoping that’s what happens, some of us just aren’t convinced he can do it all and some give him a small chance. I’m trying to remain optimistic so I’ll give him about a 5-10% chance he can be a franchise QB but what I see happening is an improvement from what we’ve seen (which isn’t hard to do, Tyrod did it) with another season of excuses of why he can be better. I’m not saying you’re wrong or that it’s easy, but it happens. 49ers did it with Trey Lance. Built up a team, found a QB they loved, sold the farm to get him. Now, the real miracle crap is what happened after that. That’s ridiculous how they dodged the bullet of him sucking. But let’s assume the we target and sell the farm for down the line doesn’t suck.
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Post by jaymas on Apr 27, 2024 21:03:59 GMT -5
Good questions about an unknown future. It has been a new trend that you can add a vet QB to a team and get to the SB so it should be on the table that a vet QB could be signed or traded for in 2025 instead of the rookie route so judging from your response the much better option. If, IF, DJ plays average I think they keep him because if Schoen didn’t like any of the QB’s available when we picked I doubt there will be one he truly likes available where I think we’ll be picking. I said this in another thread but if they give DJ 2 years and they think the roster is loaded but DJ isn’t getting it done, I could honestly see them trading for Cousins or another high profile vet QB. If the roster is loaded you have to strike quick, which is why I was hoping for a QB this year and have him sit a year, play a year and maybe in year 3 he would be primed. We would probably still have high picks and I think WR’s are easier to find later in the draft anyways. You don’t have time to have a loaded roster, then draft a rookie QB and hope he works out immediately. Sure there are a few cases but they are rare. They would have to get that vet, a known quantity if you will, and go all in like the Rams or Tampa or to a lesser degree, the Lions. I guess you could hope to draft the next Purdy, Wilson, Brady, etc but those guys are rare exceptions and they better have a back up plan Would you have really wanted them to take QB for the sake of it, Vinnie? They tried to trade up for their guy, but NE had the need too. I feel like so many feel like that's how we ended up with DJ "we need a QB, take a guy" (not saying I agree that's what happened in 19). If Nabers has enough of a gap between him and their QB 2, I think they made the right call. The thing about "weak QB classes" like 2025 is being called, is that it changes so much. Jayden Daniels was a mid round pick before this year, Anthony Richardson a 3rd rounder before last year. Joe Burrow was a 5th rounder before his season at LSU. Bo Nix nor Penix were going in the first round one month ago. It all changes a lot.
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Post by DonnieYen on Apr 27, 2024 21:06:44 GMT -5
The football writers and such love out draft for what it's worth?
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 27, 2024 21:13:59 GMT -5
I don’t understand why people think that we should have drafted OL in this draft with only 6 picks and tons of other needs.
The OL has 2 high first round tackles, a second round center, a third round guard, a FA guard signed this offseason, a FA G/T signed this offseason, and two experienced backups signed in FA this offseason.
At some point we have to stop dumping resources into the same position group and those guys have to step up and perform. 🤷‍♂️
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 27, 2024 21:21:37 GMT -5
Too funny.
It's like nobody here has lived any history. And most of you have already admitted how frickin old you are.
We all know nobody can put a "rating" on this draft now; the rating will come several years from now. After the player can't stay on the field because of injuries, after the gun or domestic violence charges, after they just can't handle the NFL or the NY media.
I like the picks. But nobody knows how to grade this draft at this point. It's silly to try.
Just MO.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Apr 27, 2024 21:33:37 GMT -5
I think this draft was a solid B. Arguably the best receiver in the draft. Arguably the best safety in the draft. Both were positions of need.
Added a TE, with, to me, a lot of potential upside-position of need. Added a corner, position of need. Added depth at RB, with a talented tough runner who also can catch the ball out of the backfield since he was a converted receiver. Fits the offense, because this offense is probably throwing the ball a lot more.
They drafted Schmitz, Neal, Ezeudu and McKethan in the previous 2 drafts. They signed several lineman before this draft. Maybe they aren't giving up on their draft picks yet and like the vets they brought in.
They tried to trade up for the QB they wanted, in the end NE wasn't dealing. They didn't feel Penix, JJ and Nix were worth the 6th pick.
Like it or not it seems like the strategy is to build up the team and talent, and plug in their QB at some point, maybe that changes a bit if they got Maye, but they didn't.
Either way I still don't think Jones is the QB after next season, but who knows.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Apr 27, 2024 21:34:18 GMT -5
I don’t understand why people think that we should have drafted OL in this draft with only 6 picks and tons of other needs. The OL has 2 high first round tackles, a second round center, a third round guard, a FA guard signed this offseason, a FA G/T signed this offseason, and two experienced backups signed in FA this offseason. At some point we have to stop dumping resources into the same position group and those guys have to step up and perform. 🤷‍♂️ Agree 1000%...
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