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Post by Morehead State on Apr 28, 2024 9:20:24 GMT -5
C+ ish I like Nabers a lot, and I like Nubin at Safety, but other than that, headscratcher. No OL? Really? Big named guards were there in the 2nd/3rd. No shot at a QB? I would have at the very least tried Rattler or Milton later on. Just a weird draft to me. Time to start dialing in on the 2025 QBs. Unless Lock blows up, we will be searching. They went all in on the O line in free agency. I think we'll be average at worst with that group this season. The biggest addition was the new O line coach.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 28, 2024 9:21:44 GMT -5
If you truly believe that then you should be screaming to replace our entire staff as they missed such an obvious flaw and were fooled by one good game. Dude. He was the first guy saying they could win with Jones when they won with Jones in 2022. Fans are fans. I said I thought we could win with him as long as he had everything around him. Go back and read my posts. Then he regressed last year.
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Post by Roswell on Apr 28, 2024 9:22:55 GMT -5
Dude. He was the first guy saying they could win with Jones when they won with Jones in 2022. Fans are fans. I said I thought we could win with him as long as he had everything around him. Go back and read my posts. Then he regressed last year. Because last year he had everything around him?
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 28, 2024 9:29:04 GMT -5
I said I thought we could win with him as long as he had everything around him. Go back and read my posts. Then he regressed last year. Because last year he had everything around him? He needs too much to function. I think the contract was based on the assumption that he would improve. The opposite happened. I'm sick of every drop back being a fire drill. He is way too limited. We could probably be a 9-8 team with him if everything breaks right. Not good enough. After 2024, he'll unfortunately be a back up somewhere. I feel badly saying that because I like him.
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redeyejedi
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Post by redeyejedi on Apr 28, 2024 9:41:52 GMT -5
Reaching for a QB “because we need a QB” is exactly what got us into this mess. Other teams this year 'reach' for a QB (Penix, JJ, Nix) lets see how they do. Sometimes need trumps reach. The idiots before Schoen drafted a 4th round QB as the no. 6 pick because of one game. That was not a reach, that was idiocy We are still paying for that pick now. We have wasted 6 seasons because of that reach. Its a shame but Daboll and Schoen are going to lose their jobs because of it too.
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Post by SG88 on Apr 28, 2024 9:52:32 GMT -5
Because last year he had everything around him? He needs too much to function. I think the contract was based on the assumption that he would improve. The opposite happened. I'm sick of every drop back being a fire drill. He is way too limited. We could probably be a 9-8 team with him if everything breaks right. Not good enough. After 2024, he'll unfortunately be a back up somewhere. I feel badly saying that because I like him. If he needs so much to even function as an average QB, why in the world did we give him the 💰? They clearly know something that the rest of the NFL world doesn't know. To me, he is the second coming of Blake Bortles.
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Post by SG88 on Apr 28, 2024 9:56:35 GMT -5
Other teams this year 'reach' for a QB (Penix, JJ, Nix) lets see how they do. Sometimes need trumps reach. The idiots before Schoen drafted a 4th round QB as the no. 6 pick because of one game. That was not a reach, that was idiocy We are still paying for that pick now. We have wasted 6 seasons because of that reach. Its a shame but Daboll and Schoen are going to lose their jobs because of it too. When that does happen, they will have no one to blame but themselves unless the Mara family forced this QB down their throats.
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Post by Roswell on Apr 28, 2024 10:09:44 GMT -5
Because last year he had everything around him? He needs too much to function. I think the contract was based on the assumption that he would improve. The opposite happened. I'm sick of every drop back being a fire drill. He is way too limited. We could probably be a 9-8 team with him if everything breaks right. Not good enough. After 2024, he'll unfortunately be a back up somewhere. I feel badly saying that because I like him. Well, in a perfect world, the Oline plays well and he plays great. I think he’s better than most on this board do, certainly talent dependent and not elite. I don’t think any QB would have thrived on this team last year. They all would’ve been subpar or injured or both. At this point they’re paying him a lot of money to play for them in 2024. Might as well hope for the best.
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Post by Nite on Apr 28, 2024 10:13:51 GMT -5
Whats the grade below a F - ? Two of the most critical areas were not addressed
Punter and?
1) Long Snapper 2) Ownership
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Post by Nite on Apr 28, 2024 10:18:24 GMT -5
I hope you are right. But my gut is saying...nope. It’s the 6th year genetics say what you are by this point. As for the others I suspect they are really fans of the player rather than the team. Even if he has a superstar season by his standards, it would not be enough My view is 2022 DJ was the reason we won games. Personally I am excited to see that DJ with a much improved line and receivers. That of course is assuming we get 2022 DJ and not 2023 and that our line and WR corps is indeed improved. It is a lot of ifs, so I guess we will see. Daboll coached the crap out of Jones in 2022 and he squeezed out as much production as he could from the kid. The D was good and we had an easy schedule. Thats why we won
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Post by Nite on Apr 28, 2024 10:20:00 GMT -5
He will have an average DJ year; 16 TD, 6 int, 4 fumbles and 2 rushing TDs this with all of our 'weapons' Plus, a concussion and a pull groin I also see a high ankle sprain in mid season. Optimistically speaking..
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redeyejedi
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Post by redeyejedi on Apr 28, 2024 10:30:18 GMT -5
C+ ish I like Nabers a lot, and I like Nubin at Safety, but other than that, headscratcher. No OL? Really? Big named guards were there in the 2nd/3rd. No shot at a QB? I would have at the very least tried Rattler or Milton later on. Just a weird draft to me. Time to start dialing in on the 2025 QBs. Unless Lock blows up, we will be searching. Nabers is a very good player. I would of liked to trade down but I doubt they had an offer. I see virtually no talent on offense and a couple extra picks to fill holes would have been nice. Not crazy about Nubin. It wasn't a bad pick. He is a solid player and fills a need. However, I believe there were much better players on the board. Andru Phillips was a reach in my opinion but you can't have enough CB's. The Giants secondary needs hep so I get it ,but again better options available. Theo Johnson was a good pick, fills a need, has true TE size and can contribute as a blocker. Should fit well with Bellinger who I still believe can be a very good player. Its a real shame we wasted a pick on Waller. I don't see how Daboll and Schoen save their jobs. Screwing up the 2022 draft is a huge reason why this team is where it is. 6 picks in the first 3 rounds and not much to show for it. Gettleman was a bad GM and left the cupboard virtually bare. However, Schoensattempt to rebuild the roster have failed miserably so far.
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3days
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Post by 3days on Apr 28, 2024 12:22:58 GMT -5
My view is 2022 DJ was the reason we won games. Personally I am excited to see that DJ with a much improved line and receivers. That of course is assuming we get 2022 DJ and not 2023 and that our line and WR corps is indeed improved. It is a lot of ifs, so I guess we will see. Daboll coached the crap out of Jones in 2022 and he squeezed out as much production as he could from the kid. The D was good and we had an easy schedule. Thats why we won Daboll and JS obviously did not agree with that take or they would not have signed him.
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Post by Jomo on Apr 28, 2024 13:48:43 GMT -5
C+ ish I like Nabers a lot, and I like Nubin at Safety, but other than that, headscratcher. No OL? Really? Big named guards were there in the 2nd/3rd. No shot at a QB? I would have at the very least tried Rattler or Milton later on. Just a weird draft to me. Time to start dialing in on the 2025 QBs. Unless Lock blows up, we will be searching. They went all in on the O line in free agency. I think we'll be average at worst with that group this season. The biggest addition was the new O line coach. Coaching does matter and it is a sly way to get around the cap....overpay the best assistants.
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Post by jaymas on Apr 28, 2024 15:59:49 GMT -5
Would you have really wanted them to take QB for the sake of it, Vinnie? They tried to trade up for their guy, but NE had the need too. I feel like so many feel like that's how we ended up with DJ "we need a QB, take a guy" (not saying I agree that's what happened in 19). If Nabers has enough of a gap between him and their QB 2, I think they made the right call. The thing about "weak QB classes" like 2025 is being called, is that it changes so much. Jayden Daniels was a mid round pick before this year, Anthony Richardson a 3rd rounder before last year. Joe Burrow was a 5th rounder before his season at LSU. Bo Nix nor Penix were going in the first round one month ago. It all changes a lot. I get the QB classes change a lot and I expect it will next year. What I’m saying is we all agree every QB is a gamble, some more than others, but assuming they have a decent year and up end picking 10th at best, more likely mid to late teens, what are the chances they find a QB they like in that range that will still be there and will be a better prospect than JJ, Nix or Penix? Slim to none IMO. I get at least 2 of those 3 QB’s will most likely be a bust and probably at least one of the top 3 but those odds won’t change next year, the year after or the year after that and more than likely we’ll have to give up a shitload of picks to even take a swing at one of them, then hope we hit one one and wait another 2 years at a minimum for them to develop. The other option is start basically throwing picks away and hope you find the next Jackson, Wilson, Rodgers, Purdy etc but the chances are highly stacked against us. Final option (other than if Jones happens to kill it) is finding a proven vet QB IF the FO believes the roster is ready to make a legit run but that’s also easier said than done and typically if you don’t win quickly that gap only lasts 1-2 years. But Penix and Nix weren't even considered first round prospects a month ago, hell not even two weeks ago. So I can't say that no one will match them as prospects. There's a degree of fluff to all of this. I don't think Jones is a championship QB, far from it, and a lot of the options you laid out above are viable if this overall roster is better and I think it is. This coaching staff also went to the playoffs with Jones and a much worse offensive roster. I just think they made the right call once they couldn't get the guy they coveted. I'm also incredibly excited about the defense and our scheme change.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 28, 2024 17:06:26 GMT -5
I get the QB classes change a lot and I expect it will next year. What I’m saying is we all agree every QB is a gamble, some more than others, but assuming they have a decent year and up end picking 10th at best, more likely mid to late teens, what are the chances they find a QB they like in that range that will still be there and will be a better prospect than JJ, Nix or Penix? Slim to none IMO. I get at least 2 of those 3 QB’s will most likely be a bust and probably at least one of the top 3 but those odds won’t change next year, the year after or the year after that and more than likely we’ll have to give up a shitload of picks to even take a swing at one of them, then hope we hit one one and wait another 2 years at a minimum for them to develop. The other option is start basically throwing picks away and hope you find the next Jackson, Wilson, Rodgers, Purdy etc but the chances are highly stacked against us. Final option (other than if Jones happens to kill it) is finding a proven vet QB IF the FO believes the roster is ready to make a legit run but that’s also easier said than done and typically if you don’t win quickly that gap only lasts 1-2 years. But Penix and Nix weren't even considered first round prospects a month ago, hell not even two weeks ago. So I can't say that no one will match them as prospects. There's a degree of fluff to all of this. I don't think Jones is a championship QB, far from it, and a lot of the options you laid out above are viable if this overall roster is better and I think it is. This coaching staff also went to the playoffs with Jones and a much worse offensive roster. I just think they made the right call once they couldn't get the guy they coveted. I'm also incredibly excited about the defense and our scheme change. We’ll see, contrary to what most people think, no one is rooting against Jones and no Giants fan on this board hates Jones. We all hope he proves us wrong and for me personally, that means showing he can be a franchise QB which his “mythical” 2022 season was far from IMO. Honestly, I get so sick of hearing about the playoffs that year, I think the last time I saw a team so undeserving of making the playoffs (other than MN that year) was when Seattle made it in with a losing record. That entire 2022 season was a the biggest, luckiest, crock of shit season from a “playoff” team that I have ever seen from the Giants. *No offense to you or anyone else, just my opinion and many others who aren’t Giants fans. Anyways, I wish Jones the best of luck and shows me he is a franchise QB, not just better than 2022 because I already expect that.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Apr 28, 2024 17:26:11 GMT -5
I hope you are right. But my gut is saying...nope. It’s the 6th year genetics say what you are by this point. As for the others I suspect they are really fans of the player rather than the team. Even if he has a superstar season by his standards, it would not be enough My view is 2022 DJ was the reason we won games. Personally I am excited to see that DJ with a much improved line and receivers. That of course is assuming we get 2022 DJ and not 2023 and that our line and WR corps is indeed improved. It is a lot of ifs, so I guess we will see. My view is that having the 31st strength of schedule is why we won games.
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Post by jaymas on Apr 28, 2024 18:09:53 GMT -5
But Penix and Nix weren't even considered first round prospects a month ago, hell not even two weeks ago. So I can't say that no one will match them as prospects. There's a degree of fluff to all of this. I don't think Jones is a championship QB, far from it, and a lot of the options you laid out above are viable if this overall roster is better and I think it is. This coaching staff also went to the playoffs with Jones and a much worse offensive roster. I just think they made the right call once they couldn't get the guy they coveted. I'm also incredibly excited about the defense and our scheme change. We’ll see, contrary to what most people think, no one is rooting against Jones and no Giants fan on this board hates Jones. We all hope he proves us wrong and for me personally, that means showing he can be a franchise QB which his “mythical” 2022 season was far from IMO. Honestly, I get so sick of hearing about the playoffs that year, I think the last time I saw a team so undeserving of making the playoffs (other than MN that year) was when Seattle made it in with a losing record. That entire 2022 season was a the biggest, luckiest, crock of shit season from a “playoff” team that I have ever seen from the Giants. *No offense to you or anyone else, just my opinion and many others who aren’t Giants fans. Anyways, I wish Jones the best of luck and shows me he is a franchise QB, not just better than 2022 because I already expect that. Some things went our way in 2022 and a lot of things didn't on 2023. That's football. If you can get an overachieving team to the playoffs there is at least a little praise for it from me. It's not a game changer and they weren't a great team, but making the playoffs in the NFL and winning a game is not just sheer luck. The less than one percent chance that Daniel Jones makes a leap would be the most exciting thing that could happen. Here's to hoping, but not expecting.
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3days
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Post by 3days on Apr 28, 2024 18:32:22 GMT -5
My view is 2022 DJ was the reason we won games. Personally I am excited to see that DJ with a much improved line and receivers. That of course is assuming we get 2022 DJ and not 2023 and that our line and WR corps is indeed improved. It is a lot of ifs, so I guess we will see. My view is that having the 31st strength of schedule is why we won games. If you are correct then we have the worst GM in the league as he had a full body of work when he decided to sign DJ.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Apr 28, 2024 18:43:58 GMT -5
My view is that having the 31st strength of schedule is why we won games. If you are correct then we have the worst GM in the league as he had a full body of work when he decided to sign DJ. Signed him to a two year deal. Versus the alternative... Signing Mitch Trubisky?
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 28, 2024 18:44:55 GMT -5
I would give this draft maybe a B -. It looks pretty solid a WR supposedly can't miss, a Safety supposedly the best in the draft, a CB suppose to be physical (we'll see), and a TE that has the measurables that we would look for. The first 2 picks are starters for us.
We just had too many holes to fill in one draft. DT and a CB were the main positions of need on defense imho. QB and WR on offense. If we picked the QB we would have to go get the WR in the 2nd. When JJ fell to us I thought for sure we were picking him without moving up and we keep all our draft choices that it would have cost.
I would rather have addressed the CB position in the 2nd rd and get a higher rated CB. But I guess they had the Safety rated higher than the remaining CB's. I don't think the Safety could have been rated higher than some of the DT's that were still available.
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3days
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Post by 3days on Apr 28, 2024 18:54:43 GMT -5
If you are correct then we have the worst GM in the league as he had a full body of work when he decided to sign DJ. Signed him to a two year deal. Versus the alternative... Signing Mitch Trubisky? I understand the 2 year nature of it. However no GM should give anyone that kind of money unless they are convinced they can be their Franchise QB. He had way more option than Trubisky, heck he could have franchised him, take a risk on someone like Tampa did with Mayfield, make a trade.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 28, 2024 19:03:01 GMT -5
I'm not over joyed with this draft nor am I upset. I thought it was a solid draft. We did fill positions of weakness but we still have a mess with plenty of weaknesses on this team. Just couldn't fill all the holes.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Apr 28, 2024 19:03:25 GMT -5
Signed him to a two year deal. Versus the alternative... Signing Mitch Trubisky? I understand the 2 year nature of it. However no GM should give anyone that kind of money unless they are convinced they can be their Franchise QB. He had way more option than Trubisky, heck he could have franchised him, take a risk on someone like Tampa did with Mayfield, make a trade. The two year deal doesn't mean they were convinced he can be their franchise QB. That's a 6 year, $200M+, $160M+ guaranteed contract. The two year deal is a "you're just as good as any other option out there and may be better, prove it" contract. Franchising him would have meant $35M cap hit in 2023. Instead he was a $15M cap hit.
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Post by Nite on Apr 28, 2024 19:41:07 GMT -5
Daboll coached the crap out of Jones in 2022 and he squeezed out as much production as he could from the kid. The D was good and we had an easy schedule. Thats why we won Daboll and JS obviously did not agree with that take or they would not have signed him. They signed him because at the time they thought he was turning a corner and perhaps become a franchise. Note that it was a deal with an out after 2 years. Also our meddling owner inserted himself into the negotiations thus sealing the deal
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 28, 2024 20:19:00 GMT -5
At the end of the draft I think we’ve managed to get 2 possibly 3 starters from the whole thing. That’s Brian burns with the trade and a hefty contract. Malik Nabors obviously. Maybe our new safety. Everyone else im really not expecting much from. If the 3 additions pan out I think that’s a successful draft. Doubt it jettisons us to playoff calibre football though Aussie if any team gets any starters after the 2nd rd it's gravy. 3rd rd and beyond maybe an impact player if a team has a good draft but very rare is it a starter. You list 3 starters including Burns from the trade. Which was a early 2nd rd pick. This is good 3 starters and 2 of them Burns and Nabors should be stars. Still a whole bunch of holes but with 3 starters from the draft choices and trade plus 2 OL FA's that are going to be starters. That's 5 starters that should be better than last year, that's almost 25% of the starters. Though we lost 2 starters in Saquon and X man that aren't going to be as good.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 28, 2024 22:09:39 GMT -5
He needs too much to function. I think the contract was based on the assumption that he would improve. The opposite happened. I'm sick of every drop back being a fire drill. He is way too limited. We could probably be a 9-8 team with him if everything breaks right. Not good enough. After 2024, he'll unfortunately be a back up somewhere. I feel badly saying that because I like him. Well, in a perfect world, the Oline plays well and he plays great. I think he’s better than most on this board do, certainly talent dependent and not elite. I don’t think any QB would have thrived on this team last year. They all would’ve been subpar or injured or both. At this point they’re paying him a lot of money to play for them in 2024. Might as well hope for the best. Both Tommy DeVito and Tyrod Taylor were running for their lives as well. Yet they managed to throw balls on time, even deep, despite the bad O line. I can't speak for Drew Lock. I've never thought much of him since he was drafted. To me, Tommy is the best QB on this team and he's still a developing undrafted free agent....who's still not very good at all. DJ?....... it's been 5 seasons Ros......Jeez.
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 29, 2024 5:57:50 GMT -5
Well, in a perfect world, the Oline plays well and he plays great. I think he’s better than most on this board do, certainly talent dependent and not elite. I don’t think any QB would have thrived on this team last year. They all would’ve been subpar or injured or both. At this point they’re paying him a lot of money to play for them in 2024. Might as well hope for the best. Both Tommy DeVito and Tyrod Taylor were running for their lives as well. Yet they managed to throw balls on time, even deep, despite the bad O line. I can't speak for Drew Lock. I've never thought much of him since he was drafted. To me, Tommy is the best QB on this team and he's still a developing undrafted free agent....who's still not very good at all. DJ?....... it's been 5 seasons Ros......Jeez. I wasn't impressed by Lock either, but he did play quite well last season in the limited time he got. Looked like a different player then his time in Denver. Small sample size, but it's something.
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