jimc
Special Teams
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Post by jimc on Apr 27, 2024 21:36:12 GMT -5
I would have liked an attempt to draft Spencer Rattler. But I suppose they are happy with Lock/DeVito......and I suppose what's left of Daniel Jones. I pretty much like this draft otherwise. Believing in 8 is what is going to get them fired IMO. Might as well put a blowtorch to 92 million dollars. I hope that I'm wrong and he crushes it in his 6th year, but I don't see it. Of course they purposely leaked that weak trade attempt to move up to 3rd overall to save face. Really?
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Post by SG88 on Apr 27, 2024 21:39:51 GMT -5
Believing in 8 is what is going to get them fired IMO. Might as well put a blowtorch to 92 million dollars. I hope that I'm wrong and he crushes it in his 6th year, but I don't see it. Of course they purposely leaked that weak trade attempt to move up to 3rd overall to save face. Really? Of course. I'm a Giants fan my guy. I want us to win as much as possible. My issues with 8 aren't personal at all. They might be for some people, but not me.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 27, 2024 21:52:35 GMT -5
Whats the grade below a F - ? Two of the most critical areas were not addressed
Punter and?
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3days
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Post by 3days on Apr 27, 2024 22:30:36 GMT -5
Unlike some, I definitely can’t fault you for thinking that. I think he’ll put up better numbers than he ever has but it will be clear to some of us he’s still not the guy and better QB’s would do more but his fanbois will consider it a success and make more excuses. I hope you are right. But my gut is saying...nope. It’s the 6th year genetics say what you are by this point. As for the others I suspect they are really fans of the player rather than the team. Even if he has a superstar season by his standards, it would not be enough My view is 2022 DJ was the reason we won games. Personally I am excited to see that DJ with a much improved line and receivers. That of course is assuming we get 2022 DJ and not 2023 and that our line and WR corps is indeed improved. It is a lot of ifs, so I guess we will see.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 27, 2024 22:33:42 GMT -5
I hope you are right. But my gut is saying...nope. It’s the 6th year genetics say what you are by this point. As for the others I suspect they are really fans of the player rather than the team. Even if he has a superstar season by his standards, it would not be enough My view is 2022 DJ was the reason we won games. Personally I am excited to see that DJ with a much improved line and receivers. That of course is assuming we get 2022 DJ and not 2023 and that our line and WR corps is indeed improved. It is a lot of ifs, so I guess we will see. 2022 Daniel Jones wasn't good at all. He was just less bad. He looked terrible against even decent defenses. If 2022 Daniel Jones is the new standard we need to get a new QB as soon as possible.
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3days
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Post by 3days on Apr 27, 2024 22:38:18 GMT -5
My view is 2022 DJ was the reason we won games. Personally I am excited to see that DJ with a much improved line and receivers. That of course is assuming we get 2022 DJ and not 2023 and that our line and WR corps is indeed improved. It is a lot of ifs, so I guess we will see. 2022 Daniel Jones wasn't good at all. He was just less bad. He looked terrible against even decent defenses. If 2022 Daniel Jones is the new standard we need to get a new QB as soon as possible. I don’t agree at all, I saw someone making plays despite the lack of talent around him. I am assuming that is what JS and Dabol saw and why they signed him to the big contract.
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Post by DJones19 on Apr 27, 2024 22:41:58 GMT -5
I'm concerned with the Nabers being turning into an Odell diva type, he's already shown more signs of being a diva at this stage in the game than Odell did. Garrett Wilson is a similar player and thought he should have been the pick in year 1 of Schoen and prefer him.
But glad he addressed the critical needs and went WR in the first round, we've neglected the position for so long and it shows. I like the passion pick 2 and 3 showed in interviews...and getting Brian Burns for a #2 is huge.
So for now I'll give Schoen a B for making some good moves. Looks like he drafted some players to fit the schemes, can never have enough WRs and pass defenders in today's NFL.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 27, 2024 22:42:20 GMT -5
2022 Daniel Jones wasn't good at all. He was just less bad. He looked terrible against even decent defenses. If 2022 Daniel Jones is the new standard we need to get a new QB as soon as possible. I don’t agree at all, I saw someone making plays despite the lack of talent around him. I am assuming that is what JS and Dabol saw and why they signed him to the big contract. We beat a lot of awful teams. In a league where a QB can stumble his way to 20+ TD's in a season, our guy couldn't come close. He has sacrificed production for lack of turnovers. It's not a recipe for winning.....just not losing as much.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 27, 2024 22:43:14 GMT -5
I'm concerned with the Nabers being turning into an Odell diva type, he's already shown more signs of being a diva at this stage in the game than Odell did. Garrett Wilson is a similar player and thought he should have been the pick in year 1 of Schoen and prefer him. But glad we went WR in the first round, we've neglected the position for so long and it shows. I like the passion pick 2 and 3 showed in interviews...and getting Brian Burns for a #2 is huge. So for now I'll give Schoen a B for making some good moves. I love it...the built in excuses are already starting.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 27, 2024 22:50:49 GMT -5
Incomplete.
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Post by DJones19 on Apr 27, 2024 22:52:36 GMT -5
I'm concerned with the Nabers being turning into an Odell diva type, he's already shown more signs of being a diva at this stage in the game than Odell did. Garrett Wilson is a similar player and thought he should have been the pick in year 1 of Schoen and prefer him. But glad we went WR in the first round, we've neglected the position for so long and it shows. I like the passion pick 2 and 3 showed in interviews...and getting Brian Burns for a #2 is huge. So for now I'll give Schoen a B for making some good moves. I love it...the built in excuses are already starting. Concerns aren't really about what he can do on the field. Looking forward to the 8 to 8 connection.
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3days
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Post by 3days on Apr 27, 2024 22:54:04 GMT -5
I don’t agree at all, I saw someone making plays despite the lack of talent around him. I am assuming that is what JS and Dabol saw and why they signed him to the big contract. We beat a lot of awful teams. In a league where a QB can stumble his way to 20+ TD's in a season, our guy couldn't come close. He has sacrificed production for lack of turnovers. It's not a recipe for winning.....just not losing as much. If you truly believe that then you should be screaming to replace our entire staff as they missed such an obvious flaw and were fooled by one good game.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 27, 2024 22:55:21 GMT -5
I'm concerned with the Nabers being turning into an Odell diva type, he's already shown more signs of being a diva at this stage in the game than Odell did. Garrett Wilson is a similar player and thought he should have been the pick in year 1 of Schoen and prefer him. But glad we went WR in the first round, we've neglected the position for so long and it shows. I like the passion pick 2 and 3 showed in interviews...and getting Brian Burns for a #2 is huge. So for now I'll give Schoen a B for making some good moves. I love it...the built in excuses are already starting.
What is there for a losing team but excuses? It's as if yours are better than mine or vice versa.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 27, 2024 23:08:07 GMT -5
I don’t agree at all, I saw someone making plays despite the lack of talent around him. I am assuming that is what JS and Dabol saw and why they signed him to the big contract. We beat a lot of awful teams. In a league where a QB can stumble his way to 20+ TD's in a season, our guy couldn't come close. He has sacrificed production for lack of turnovers. It's not a recipe for winning.....just not losing as much.
Weak schedule talking point aside, according to ESPN, Daniel Jones was ranked 6th in QBR in 2022 behind only Mahomes, Allen, Tua, Hurts, and Goff.
His "sacrificed production for lack of turnovers" led to a playoff birth and win.
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Post by fifthavephil on Apr 28, 2024 0:14:50 GMT -5
I could see 8 having an average to slightly above average year but clearly not enough to get us to the big dance and Schoen and Co keep him around another year or two because he didn’t shit the bed and we’re picking too far back to get a QB they like. That would also be enough to save their jobs for awhile. This would actually be the worst case scenario IMO. Surround him with all the talent in the world, put up decent regular season stats but never franchise caliber. I’m sure some fans would be thrilled with this outcome as they continue making excuses for him. I don’t wish injuries on anyone, but with his injury history and lack of making good decisions, I could also see him getting hurt and collecting the 25 million which would also force Schoen to draft a QB that he probably won’t like and have to give up too much for or overpaying/trading for a FA (ie Cousins). Either way, both scenarios suck. He will have an average DJ year; 16 TD, 6 int, 4 fumbles and 2 rushing TDs this with all of our 'weapons' Plus, a concussion and a pull groin
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Post by fifthavephil on Apr 28, 2024 0:55:35 GMT -5
Too funny. It's like nobody here has lived any history. And most of you have already admitted how frickin old you are. We all know nobody can put a "rating" on this draft now; the rating will come several years from now. After the player can't stay on the field because of injuries, after the gun or domestic violence charges, after they just can't handle the NFL or the NY media. I like the picks. But nobody knows how to grade this draft at this point. It's silly to try. Just MO. A guy like Nabers should have a short time frame, to prove he a legit NFL receiver. Otherwise , I agree it should take no more than 3 years to prove you belong in the NFL. Whether it a starter or backup. Daniel Jones is going into his 6th year, he has proven he not a starter on the NFL.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 28, 2024 1:03:51 GMT -5
I love it...the built in excuses are already starting.
What is there for a losing team but excuses? It's as if yours are better than mine or vice versa.
It's not the excuses that I'm calling out....It's the fact that he's using them before anything happens.
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Post by Roswell on Apr 28, 2024 4:48:41 GMT -5
We don’t know how well any of these guys will do in the NFL. So there’s very little point in grading them.
The Giants allowed a tick over 5 sacks per game. 5. Per. Game.
Their 2 starting QBs missed multiple games.
The draft just happened. They had 6 picks and didn’t take one Olinemen. I know they had more holes than picks. I know they brought in some FAs. But the Giants chose to ignore a historic franchise weakness in the subsequent draft. That’s some eyebrow raising stuff right there.
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Post by Roswell on Apr 28, 2024 4:52:04 GMT -5
We beat a lot of awful teams. In a league where a QB can stumble his way to 20+ TD's in a season, our guy couldn't come close. He has sacrificed production for lack of turnovers. It's not a recipe for winning.....just not losing as much. If you truly believe that then you should be screaming to replace our entire staff as they missed such an obvious flaw and were fooled by one good game. Dude. He was the first guy saying they could win with Jones when they won with Jones in 2022. Fans are fans.
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Post by TheAussieGiant on Apr 28, 2024 7:11:06 GMT -5
At the end of the draft I think we’ve managed to get 2 possibly 3 starters from the whole thing.
That’s Brian burns with the trade and a hefty contract.
Malik Nabors obviously.
Maybe our new safety.
Everyone else im really not expecting much from. If the 3 additions pan out I think that’s a successful draft. Doubt it jettisons us to playoff calibre football though
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Post by nygiantsfan1029 on Apr 28, 2024 7:54:49 GMT -5
I’ll give it a solid B. I know a lot of people wanted a QB but it isn’t like they didn’t try to move up. They just couldn’t and if your guy isn’t there he isn’t there and it is time for plan B. It isn’t like they didn’t need a WR. They filled some needs in this draft with some solid talent but my problem is they didn’t take an O-lineman
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Post by TEM on Apr 28, 2024 8:04:47 GMT -5
We all knew what the FO was going to do as it pertains need CB S WR TE RB ILB My mock in the contest was those 6 positions.
I liked the first 2 Picks. (still think we need a corner) I would like to go get Xavien Howard on a 2 year deal that the FO is paying Waller with.
Malik Nabers will pull the Safeties out of the box. An instant upgrade.
Tyler Nubin is a ball hawk and a thumper. Will be a impact player with the departure of Mckinny
The rest of the picks,
The corner I get But:
I am not a fan of 3rd round corners, when there is a need for a #2 . They tend to draw flags and get burned. He may develop , He may not. Most likely a rotation DB. ........We needed a corner I get it. We have a lot of ? as a #2 Flott, McCloud, Robinson, Hawkins ,Phillips Perhaps one can step up as a competent Number 2 ,
The TE I just did not get that pick when it occurred. We had a greater need for an interior LB .
The thing about TEs is there is very shallow curve with development. They come in with the skill set they need. Chip a DE, Take out the DB on a run, Go catch the ball on a flat. After the 3rd round talent is gone 4th round -7th all the same. That is why I do not get this pick. We can get the same player type in the 6th as the 4th. IMO: We really need an Interior Line-backer with that pick. We get trounced on slants across the middle. We needed a tackler that can cover and beat an OG when needed to pass rush. We still are lacking that player.
The RB we could have gotten as an UDFA . ( I don't get the pick) There were only 19 taken in the entire draft. There is a pool of 20 set as UDFA. We had our pick of the lot. We passed on an Interior LB.
The ILB we passed on 4-5 really good ones. It was a very good class at the top tier. We ended up with a Special teams player. We did not upgrade over Tomon Fox or Darrian Beavers.
The. First 2 picks nailed it
The rest I am not sure we got the best player. I hope I am wrong.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 28, 2024 8:14:51 GMT -5
We all knew what the FO was going to do as it pertains need CB S WR TE RB ILB My mock in the contest was those 6 positions. I liked the first 2 Picks. (still think we need a corner) I would like to go get Xavien Howard on a 2 year deal that the FO is paying Waller with. Malik Nabers will pull the Safeties out of the box. An instant upgrade. Tyler Nubin is a ball hawk and a thumper. Will be a impact player with the departure of Mckinny The rest of the picks, The corner I get But: I am not a fan of 3rd round corners, when there is a need for a #2 . They tend to draw flags and get burned. He may develop , He may not. Most likely a rotation DB. ........We needed a corner I get it. We have a lot of ? as a #2 Flott, McCloud, Robinson, Hawkins ,Phillips Perhaps one can step up as a competent Number 2 , The TE I just did not get that pick when it occurred. We had a greater need for an interior LB . The thing about TEs is there is very shallow curve with development. They come in with the skill set they need. Chip a DE, Take out the DB on a run, Go catch the ball on a flat. After the 3rd round talent is gone 4th round -7th all the same. That is why I do not get this pick. We can get the same player type in the 6th as the 4th. IMO: We really need an Interior Line-backer with that pick. We get trounced on slants across the middle. We needed a tackler that can cover and beat an OG when needed to pass rush. We still are lacking that player. The RB we could have gotten as an UDFA . ( I don't get the pick) There were only 19 taken in the entire draft. There is a pool of 20 set as UDFA. We had our pick of the lot. We passed on an Interior LB. The ILB we passed on 4-5 really good ones. It was a very good class at the top tier. We ended up with a Special teams player. We did not upgrade over Tomon Fox or Darrian Beavers. The. First 2 picks nailed it The rest I am not sure we got the best player. I hope I am wrong. What ILB did you want to take when Johnson was picked? Zero chance that Tracy would have gone undrafted. Tomon Fox is not a ILB
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Post by TEM on Apr 28, 2024 8:35:27 GMT -5
We all knew what the FO was going to do as it pertains need CB S WR TE RB ILB My mock in the contest was those 6 positions. I liked the first 2 Picks. (still think we need a corner) I would like to go get Xavien Howard on a 2 year deal that the FO is paying Waller with. Malik Nabers will pull the Safeties out of the box. An instant upgrade. Tyler Nubin is a ball hawk and a thumper. Will be a impact player with the departure of Mckinny The rest of the picks, The corner I get But: I am not a fan of 3rd round corners, when there is a need for a #2 . They tend to draw flags and get burned. He may develop , He may not. Most likely a rotation DB. ........We needed a corner I get it. We have a lot of ? as a #2 Flott, McCloud, Robinson, Hawkins ,Phillips Perhaps one can step up as a competent Number 2 , The TE I just did not get that pick when it occurred. We had a greater need for an interior LB . The thing about TEs is there is very shallow curve with development. They come in with the skill set they need. Chip a DE, Take out the DB on a run, Go catch the ball on a flat. After the 3rd round talent is gone 4th round -7th all the same. That is why I do not get this pick. We can get the same player type in the 6th as the 4th. IMO: We really need an Interior Line-backer with that pick. We get trounced on slants across the middle. We needed a tackler that can cover and beat an OG when needed to pass rush. We still are lacking that player. The RB we could have gotten as an UDFA . ( I don't get the pick) There were only 19 taken in the entire draft. There is a pool of 20 set as UDFA. We had our pick of the lot. We passed on an Interior LB. The ILB we passed on 4-5 really good ones. It was a very good class at the top tier. We ended up with a Special teams player. We did not upgrade over Tomon Fox or Darrian Beavers. The. First 2 picks nailed it The rest I am not sure we got the best player. I hope I am wrong. What ILB did you want to take when Johnson was picked? Zero chance that Tracy would have gone undrafted. Tomon Fox is not a ILB RD 4 Tyrice Knight RD 5 Nathaniel Watson I never said the TE would go Undrafted. I think we could have got the same talent in the 6th round. Or UDFA.... Only12 taken in this draft . There were good TEs in the 6th to pick... Tanner McLachlan, Levi Drake Rodriguez This was one of the lowest TE counts ever. The average is 20. A pool of 15-20 more as UDFAs (Max Wright)
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 28, 2024 8:44:11 GMT -5
What ILB did you want to take when Johnson was picked? Zero chance that Tracy would have gone undrafted. Tomon Fox is not a ILB RD 4 Tyrice Knight RD 5 Nathaniel Watson I give you credit for coming up with names to back up your criticism. In the end though, I think that Johnson will have more impact than 4th and 5th round ILB’s in a very weak LB class
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Post by TEM on Apr 28, 2024 8:59:38 GMT -5
RD 4 Tyrice Knight RD 5 Nathaniel Watson I give you credit for coming up with names to back up your criticism. In the end though, I think that Johnson will have more impact than 4th and 5th round ILB’s in a very weak LB class I have 500s Players rated. I may have gone Trotter Jr in the 4 also.
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 28, 2024 9:01:05 GMT -5
I don’t understand why people think that we should have drafted OL in this draft with only 6 picks and tons of other needs. The OL has 2 high first round tackles, a second round center, a third round guard, a FA guard signed this offseason, a FA G/T signed this offseason, and two experienced backups signed in FA this offseason. At some point we have to stop dumping resources into the same position group and those guys have to step up and perform. 🤷♂️ Agree 1000%... Me too.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 28, 2024 9:09:24 GMT -5
If, IF, DJ plays average I think they keep him because if Schoen didn’t like any of the QB’s available when we picked I doubt there will be one he truly likes available where I think we’ll be picking. I said this in another thread but if they give DJ 2 years and they think the roster is loaded but DJ isn’t getting it done, I could honestly see them trading for Cousins or another high profile vet QB. If the roster is loaded you have to strike quick, which is why I was hoping for a QB this year and have him sit a year, play a year and maybe in year 3 he would be primed. We would probably still have high picks and I think WR’s are easier to find later in the draft anyways. You don’t have time to have a loaded roster, then draft a rookie QB and hope he works out immediately. Sure there are a few cases but they are rare. They would have to get that vet, a known quantity if you will, and go all in like the Rams or Tampa or to a lesser degree, the Lions. I guess you could hope to draft the next Purdy, Wilson, Brady, etc but those guys are rare exceptions and they better have a back up plan Would you have really wanted them to take QB for the sake of it, Vinnie? They tried to trade up for their guy, but NE had the need too. I feel like so many feel like that's how we ended up with DJ "we need a QB, take a guy" (not saying I agree that's what happened in 19). If Nabers has enough of a gap between him and their QB 2, I think they made the right call. The thing about "weak QB classes" like 2025 is being called, is that it changes so much. Jayden Daniels was a mid round pick before this year, Anthony Richardson a 3rd rounder before last year. Joe Burrow was a 5th rounder before his season at LSU. Bo Nix nor Penix were going in the first round one month ago. It all changes a lot. I get the QB classes change a lot and I expect it will next year. What I’m saying is we all agree every QB is a gamble, some more than others, but assuming they have a decent year and up end picking 10th at best, more likely mid to late teens, what are the chances they find a QB they like in that range that will still be there and will be a better prospect than JJ, Nix or Penix? Slim to none IMO. I get at least 2 of those 3 QB’s will most likely be a bust and probably at least one of the top 3 but those odds won’t change next year, the year after or the year after that and more than likely we’ll have to give up a shitload of picks to even take a swing at one of them, then hope we hit one one and wait another 2 years at a minimum for them to develop. The other option is start basically throwing picks away and hope you find the next Jackson, Wilson, Rodgers, Purdy etc but the chances are highly stacked against us. Final option (other than if Jones happens to kill it) is finding a proven vet QB IF the FO believes the roster is ready to make a legit run but that’s also easier said than done and typically if you don’t win quickly that gap only lasts 1-2 years.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 28, 2024 9:14:01 GMT -5
Of course. I'm a Giants fan my guy. I want us to win as much as possible. My issues with 8 aren't personal at all. They might be for some people, but not me. LIAR! You HATE Jones and want him to fail, as well as the Giants, so we have to deal with even more QB issues. read it here on this site, maybe Mendy was right after all. This sarcasm will fly right over the DJ fanbois heads.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 28, 2024 9:17:09 GMT -5
Would you have really wanted them to take QB for the sake of it, Vinnie? They tried to trade up for their guy, but NE had the need too. I feel like so many feel like that's how we ended up with DJ "we need a QB, take a guy" (not saying I agree that's what happened in 19). If Nabers has enough of a gap between him and their QB 2, I think they made the right call. The thing about "weak QB classes" like 2025 is being called, is that it changes so much. Jayden Daniels was a mid round pick before this year, Anthony Richardson a 3rd rounder before last year. Joe Burrow was a 5th rounder before his season at LSU. Bo Nix nor Penix were going in the first round one month ago. It all changes a lot. I get the QB classes change a lot and I expect it will next year. What I’m saying is we all agree every QB is a gamble, some more than others, but assuming they have a decent year and up end picking 10th at best, more likely mid to late teens, what are the chances they find a QB they like in that range that will still be there and will be a better prospect than JJ, Nix or Penix? Slim to none IMO. I get at least 2 of those 3 QB’s will most likely be a bust and probably at least one of the top 3 but those odds won’t change next year, the year after or the year after that and more than likely we’ll have to give up a shitload of picks to even take a swing at one of them, then hope we hit one one and wait another 2 years at a minimum for them to develop. The other option is start basically throwing picks away and hope you find the next Jackson, Wilson, Rodgers, Purdy etc but the chances are highly stacked against us. Final option (other than if Jones happens to kill it) is finding a proven vet QB IF the FO believes the roster is ready to make a legit run but that’s also easier said than done and typically if you don’t win quickly that gap only lasts 1-2 years. Just realized I repeated most of what you originally quoted but some of it should answer your question. #Don’t get after it on the stairmaster and respond at the sam etime
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