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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jun 23, 2018 10:53:24 GMT -5
Accorsi put all the pieces together for 2007, so I only credit Reese with 2011. But I would have hired him. Like Joe said... he should have been gone with TC. But, it is more normal than not to keep a person a little too long. It is what it is and we can't change a thing. Moving forward...……. Credit him for a bad 9-7 team who only snuck into the playoffs because it was the worst year ever for the NFC East and the other 3 teams were just worse? I credit Eli Manning for 2011 he's the only reason they even managed to win 9 that year. 2 SB's is good, I get that. Lots of bad football, drafting and personnel decisions under his watch. I say no. 2007 was Accorsi's team, it just was. 2011 was not a particularly good team. There are mediocre teams that go on hot runs during the season that don't amount to anything. The Giants hot run in 11' just happened to be during the playoffs and SB. I think many other GM choices at the time could have done much more and gotten more from the key pieces in place than JR. Even the team that was great in 08' until Plax shot himself had Accorsi's fingerprints all over it. Nope, all things considered I wouldn't hire Reese.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jun 23, 2018 11:51:16 GMT -5
All this after the fact analysis is what makes the media go round and round these days.
Take a look at how many GMs didn’t win 2 SBs in the past decade and then convince me you’d prefer that be the Giants. It’s pretty much incontestable. Results are kind of a pain in the ass that way,you can’t refute them...try as you might.
Without Reese and Manning this team doesn’t have those SBs. Full stop. What football fan would trade that away? In my mind, only an idiotic one.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jun 23, 2018 12:02:15 GMT -5
All this after the fact analysis is what makes the media go round and round these days. Take a look at how many GMs didn’t win 2 SBs in the past decade and then convince me you’d prefer that be the Giants. It’s pretty much incontestable. Results are kind of a pain in the ass that way,you can’t refute them...try as you might. Without Reese and Manning this team doesn’t have those SBs. Full stop. What football fan would trade that away? In my mind, only an idiotic one. I would only say that trading away Reese, in my mind anyway, would have not stopped either SB win because he didn't construct one of the teams and the other was flawed at best as proven by the continuing results beyond 11'. And that's how I interpreted and answered the question. I wouldn't trade those SB's for anything.
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Merc
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Post by Merc on Jun 23, 2018 12:03:00 GMT -5
Yes, but he should've been gone with TC. Gettleman and Shurmur would not have been available then, so I am good with what happened. I look to the future of this team.
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Post by TEM on Jun 23, 2018 12:46:55 GMT -5
I think you missed my point. And are making it with the "is he related to you statement" There seems to be 2 camps with JR. Camp one : Understand Reese had some bad monuments and awarded the fans with 2 trophies. Otherwise known as the Reese apologists or excusers Camp two: Reese did nothing but keep the Giants in a rut . The 2 Super bowls were either Accosi's team and the 2011 team an anomaly because of the 9-7 record. Otherwise known as the No credit given at allers. Camp 3 that JR did no wrong . Does not exist. I just want to know with the poll would some forfeit the 2 trophies for a GM more suited to what they believe the Giants should have had. I wouldn't forfeit the 2 trophies no, but there's no proof that without Reese we don't win them either so we don't have to forfeit them. As you correctly stated above, 2011 team was bad until the playoffs started and lucky to even get in only via the worst season ever for the NFC East, you want to crown Reese for that? And yes, 95% of the 2007 team he inherited so he had very little to do with it. So I would say you agree you would take Jr's entire tenure . There is also no proof we would have places 2 in the case with a different GM. With JR the 2 are a set in stone we got them.
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Post by TEM on Jun 23, 2018 12:48:02 GMT -5
All this after the fact analysis is what makes the media go round and round these days. Take a look at how many GMs didn’t win 2 SBs in the past decade and then convince me you’d prefer that be the Giants. It’s pretty much incontestable. Results are kind of a pain in the ass that way,you can’t refute them...try as you might. Without Reese and Manning this team doesn’t have those SBs. Full stop. What football fan would trade that away? In my mind, only an idiotic one. Best post of the thread.
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Post by TEM on Jun 23, 2018 12:51:06 GMT -5
Yes, but he should've been gone with TC. Gettleman and Shurmur would not have been available then, so I am good with what happened. I look to the future of this team. A great point.
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Post by TEM on Jun 23, 2018 13:05:54 GMT -5
All this after the fact analysis is what makes the media go round and round these days. Take a look at how many GMs didn’t win 2 SBs in the past decade and then convince me you’d prefer that be the Giants. It’s pretty much incontestable. Results are kind of a pain in the ass that way,you can’t refute them...try as you might. Without Reese and Manning this team doesn’t have those SBs. Full stop. What football fan would trade that away? In my mind, only an idiotic one. I would only say that trading away Reese, in my mind anyway, would have not stopped either SB win because he didn't construct one of the teams and the other was flawed at best as proven by the continuing results beyond 11'. And that's how I interpreted and answered the question. I wouldn't trade those SB's for anything. The 2006 and 2007 rosters were not the same. It is speculative assumption without JR's intervention in the 07 roster even as slight to none instrumental as some perceive it . It still was enough the change the direction of the team that the previous seasons did not produce. The it was not his team argument can be prove false. just by comparing the rosters between Accorsi 's last season and JR's first. Re-sining Shaun O'hara alone was a contributing factor in both runs . I can make the same point about Kawika Mitchell for the 07 run. I can agree that much of the puzzle was there in 06 but there were still missing pieces. Reese completed the puzzle . You can not assume it would have been achieved without him.
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Post by TEM on Jun 23, 2018 13:43:28 GMT -5
based on what we've just seen Gettleman accomplish in the short time he's been here I would say no I wouldn't have hired Reese... So you would have gave up the 2 Super bowl trophies and let the dice roll and land where they may. At least you are honest. I can respect that.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jun 23, 2018 13:54:36 GMT -5
I would only say that trading away Reese, in my mind anyway, would have not stopped either SB win because he didn't construct one of the teams and the other was flawed at best as proven by the continuing results beyond 11'. And that's how I interpreted and answered the question. I wouldn't trade those SB's for anything. The 2006 and 2007 rosters were not the same. It is speculative assumption without JR's intervention in the 07 roster even as slight to none instrumental as some perceive it . It still was enough the change the direction of the team that the previous seasons did not produce. The it was not his team argument can be prove false. just by comparing the rosters between Accorsi 's last season and JR's first. Re-sining Shaun O'hara alone was a contributing factor in both runs . I can make the same point about Kawika Mitchell for the 07 run. I can agree that much of the puzzle was there in 06 but there were still missing pieces. Reese completed the puzzle . You can not assume it would have been achieved without him. I'm saying another GM could have made equivalent moves and better future moves than Reese. I can't even see the point in denying as much since the whole argument is a hindsight 20/20 perspective. The true difference making members of that team, namely Manning, Burress, Jacobs, Strahan, Tuck, Umenyiora, Pierce, Webster, McKenzie, Snee, Diehl and so on were not Reese guys. Sure the rooks contributed in fine fashion, but outside of a 7th round flier on AB what was the long term value of any of those picks? As far as AB goes, for that 1 piece of 7th round magic Reese pulled from his ***, there were so many drafting failures in his tenure it's almost mind boggling. How many Reese January's did you spend watching zero Giants football? Screw it though, 2 Lombardi's right? I love those wins, but they don't excuse Reese's failures.
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Post by TEM on Jun 23, 2018 14:16:35 GMT -5
The 2006 and 2007 rosters were not the same. It is speculative assumption without JR's intervention in the 07 roster even as slight to none instrumental as some perceive it . It still was enough the change the direction of the team that the previous seasons did not produce. The it was not his team argument can be prove false. just by comparing the rosters between Accorsi 's last season and JR's first. Re-sining Shaun O'hara alone was a contributing factor in both runs . I can make the same point about Kawika Mitchell for the 07 run. I can agree that much of the puzzle was there in 06 but there were still missing pieces. Reese completed the puzzle . You can not assume it would have been achieved without him. I'm saying another GM could have made equivalent moves and better future moves than Reese. I can't even see the point in denying as much since the whole argument is a hindsight 20/20 perspective. The true difference making members of that team, namely Manning, Burress, Jacobs, Strahan, Tuck, Umenyiora, Pierce, Webster, McKenzie, Snee, Diehl and so on were not Reese guys. Sure the rooks contributed in fine fashion, but outside of a 7th round flier on AB what was the long term value of any of those picks? As far as AB goes, for that 1 piece of 7th round magic Reese pulled from his ***, there were so many drafting failures in his tenure it's almost mind boggling. How many Reese January's did you spend watching zero Giants football? Screw it though, 2 Lombardi's right? I love those wins, but they don't excuse Reese's failures. I get what you are saying . It is still purly specutlive . It is a known Reese won 2 . Another argument to suggest another would have accomplished what he did is just another form of discrediting his accomplishments. Ponder this. If as you say the better moves argument besides BB and Colbert. Name another in the this millennium that has accomplished what JR did. If as your point that equivalent or better move could have been made. Why are there so few that have accomplished winning at least 2 let alone 1? If it were as easy as the better future moves point. Wouldn't it be the case that more then 3 would have accomplished that feat? It is not as easy as you perceive it to be.I would sit through it again for the experience and fulfilment of watching the Giant hoist those Lombardi's . It was well worth it.
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Post by Jomo on Jun 23, 2018 14:41:51 GMT -5
I'm saying another GM could have made equivalent moves and better future moves than Reese. I can't even see the point in denying as much since the whole argument is a hindsight 20/20 perspective. The true difference making members of that team, namely Manning, Burress, Jacobs, Strahan, Tuck, Umenyiora, Pierce, Webster, McKenzie, Snee, Diehl and so on were not Reese guys. Sure the rooks contributed in fine fashion, but outside of a 7th round flier on AB what was the long term value of any of those picks? As far as AB goes, for that 1 piece of 7th round magic Reese pulled from his ***, there were so many drafting failures in his tenure it's almost mind boggling. How many Reese January's did you spend watching zero Giants football? Screw it though, 2 Lombardi's right? I love those wins, but they don't excuse Reese's failures. Name another in the this millennium that has accomplished what JR did. The REAL question is right there in that sentence TEM. Was he the key (integral) driver of those SB wins or was he mostly just hanging around a HOF HC and QB during that period? Since he had nothing to do with either being here and because a HC and QB are the two most important factors in winning NFL Championships, I am gonna fall on the...……….."he was largely hanging around" side of the argument and very fortunate to have someone else hand him those two.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jun 23, 2018 14:46:50 GMT -5
I'm saying another GM could have made equivalent moves and better future moves than Reese. I can't even see the point in denying as much since the whole argument is a hindsight 20/20 perspective. The true difference making members of that team, namely Manning, Burress, Jacobs, Strahan, Tuck, Umenyiora, Pierce, Webster, McKenzie, Snee, Diehl and so on were not Reese guys. Sure the rooks contributed in fine fashion, but outside of a 7th round flier on AB what was the long term value of any of those picks? As far as AB goes, for that 1 piece of 7th round magic Reese pulled from his ***, there were so many drafting failures in his tenure it's almost mind boggling. How many Reese January's did you spend watching zero Giants football? Screw it though, 2 Lombardi's right? I love those wins, but they don't excuse Reese's failures. I agree, Navy, it does not excuse his failures which were significant. But for my money, credit where credit is due. We got the SBs and because of the structure of the poll, it's an all or nothing proposal. Just like the Manning/Rivers argument. I've seen it posited both here and the old board that if we had any of the other QBs from that draft class we'd have those two plus perhaps more. That is of course as unsupportable as it is ludicrous. The team caught lighting in a bottle twice. Those Giants team were not anywhere near the best teams in the league in either year. The idea that two other QBs that have never taken under talented teams to the SB in their careers would somehow magically do it on the Giants is a curious and very fetched hypothesis.
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Post by Jomo on Jun 23, 2018 14:57:01 GMT -5
I'm saying another GM could have made equivalent moves and better future moves than Reese. I can't even see the point in denying as much since the whole argument is a hindsight 20/20 perspective. The true difference making members of that team, namely Manning, Burress, Jacobs, Strahan, Tuck, Umenyiora, Pierce, Webster, McKenzie, Snee, Diehl and so on were not Reese guys. Sure the rooks contributed in fine fashion, but outside of a 7th round flier on AB what was the long term value of any of those picks? As far as AB goes, for that 1 piece of 7th round magic Reese pulled from his ***, there were so many drafting failures in his tenure it's almost mind boggling. How many Reese January's did you spend watching zero Giants football? Screw it though, 2 Lombardi's right? I love those wins, but they don't excuse Reese's failures. I agree, Navy, it does not excuse his failures which were significant. But for my money, credit where credit is due. We got the SBs and because of the structure of the poll, it's an all or nothing proposal. Just like the Manning/Rivers argument. I've seen it posited both here and the old board that if we had any of the other QBs from that draft class we'd have those two plus perhaps more. That is of course as unsupportable as it is ludicrous. The team caught lighting in a bottle twice. Those Giants team were not anywhere near the best teams in the league in either year. The idea that two other QBs that have never taken under talented teams to the SB in their careers would somehow magically do it on the Giants is a curious and very fetched hypothesis. Every GM has a few really good top draft picks. JR was typical in that regard. Everything else was sub par when it came to harvesting talents EXCEPT for that 2007 draft which was his and he nailed it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 15:02:22 GMT -5
What if we win those superbowls and more with another GM who kept the oline from regressing? A guy who had hand in drafting and building the core guys responsible for the first Superbowl win?
What if we had a GM that didn't strikeout as much as Reese did in rounds 3-7.
What if we kept Reese in the same capacity as he was in 2006 and promoted someone else with a better eye for the oline?
I'm gonna vote for No. We would have won those superbowls and had a more formidable team with Reese in the system but someone else in charge.
Edit.. FYI.. We can change our vote on this board.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 15:12:28 GMT -5
All this after the fact analysis is what makes the media go round and round these days. Take a look at how many GMs didn’t win 2 SBs in the past decade and then convince me you’d prefer that be the Giants. It’s pretty much incontestable. Results are kind of a pain in the ass that way,you can’t refute them...try as you might. Without Reese and Manning this team doesn’t have those SBs. Full stop. What football fan would trade that away? In my mind, only an idiotic one. Best post of the thread. Except the unnecessary shot at the people that disagree with his view at the end.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 15:21:00 GMT -5
I wouldn't forfeit the 2 trophies no, but there's no proof that without Reese we don't win them either so we don't have to forfeit them. As you correctly stated above, 2011 team was bad until the playoffs started and lucky to even get in only via the worst season ever for the NFC East, you want to crown Reese for that? And yes, 95% of the 2007 team he inherited so he had very little to do with it. So I would say you agree you would take Jr's entire tenure . There is also no proof we would have places 2 in the case with a different GM. With JR the 2 are a set in stone we got them. This reminds me of a poltical debate, you're obviously in the JR camp and using the 2 SBs as a way to twist the argument in your favor regardless of what anyone says.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jun 23, 2018 15:52:17 GMT -5
So I would say you agree you would take Jr's entire tenure . There is also no proof we would have places 2 in the case with a different GM. With JR the 2 are a set in stone we got them. This reminds me of a poltical debate, you're obviously in the JR camp and using the 2 SBs as a way to twist the argument in your favor regardless of what anyone says.
I see TEM, as well as myself and others as being in the "2 Super Bowl Camp." Had we not won the two Super Bowls, there would be nothing to talk about.
I believe anyone who would throw the Super Bowls away doesn't have a true understanding of just how difficult it is to win one, let alone two. The idea that another GM could have done it, or won more is simply wishful thinking.
I've said this before and not to pin this on TC but Tom was fired in Jacksonville for hanging on to players too long. But I would remind people that TC won a couple of AFC Championships in Jacksonville and winning a couple Super Bowls would give cause to ride with guys too long.
I only have appreciation at this stage for Reese, TC, and Eli for that matter, and I haven't seen anything from each of them individually that makes me think they would have had more success without each other.
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Post by shakenbake on Jun 23, 2018 15:59:02 GMT -5
He gets a yes from me for the two superbowl wins. Should have been shown the door when Coughlin was though.
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 23, 2018 16:41:17 GMT -5
Yeah...having a hard time working that through.
How do you put aside 2 SB's for a chance to win SB's?
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jun 23, 2018 16:43:44 GMT -5
Every GM has a few really good top draft picks. JR was typical in that regard. Everything else was sub par when it came to harvesting talents EXCEPT for that 2007 draft which was his and he nailed it. He nailed it for the purposes of that season. Ross, boss, Alford, Koets and Johnson were all adequate to low level players. Steve Smith was good for a couple seasons. I will submit that DeOssie is a fixture and good long snapper and obviously AB was a great Giant. He still used 2 of his first 3 picks on Aaron Ross and Jay Alford who were mediocre football players. I'd even submit that when they drafted DeOssie they didn't think "he'll be our long snapper for 15 years" because they fancied him an actual LB and any 7th rounder is pretty much a shot in the dark. AB even came with character issues that required him still finishing jail time after he was drafted.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jun 23, 2018 17:00:32 GMT -5
Yeah...having a hard time working that through. How do you put aside 2 SB's for a chance to win SB's? Here's a fair question, put a percentage on how much of the credit for the 2007 and 2011 SB's Reese should receive. Let's say you believe about 10%. Fine. Another GM is probably at worst 80% of Reese if he wasn't good and possibly 200% of Reese if he was very good. If you're a Math guy(which I am a bit), that means another GM probably is negligible in results on the negative side with a higher return possibility on the positive side. That's why I wouldn't rehire Reese given the chance.
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Post by Jomo on Jun 23, 2018 17:02:53 GMT -5
Every GM has a few really good top draft picks. JR was typical in that regard. Everything else was sub par when it came to harvesting talents EXCEPT for that 2007 draft which was his and he nailed it. He nailed it for the purposes of that season. Ross, boss, Alford, Koets and Johnson were all adequate to low level players. Steve Smith was good for a couple seasons. I will submit that DeOssie is a fixture and good long snapper and obviously AB was a great Giant. He still used 2 of his first 3 picks on Aaron Ross and Jay Alford who were mediocre football players. I'd even submit that when they drafted DeOssie they didn't think "he'll be our long snapper for 15 years" because they fancied him an actual LB and any 7th rounder is pretty much a shot in the dark. AB even came with character issues that required him still finishing jail time after he was drafted. Well then you are supporting my side of the poll which says that JR wasn't integral but rather, blessed to be hanging around a HOF HC and QB. His actual contribution to the 2 trophies is VERY debatable.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jun 23, 2018 17:43:24 GMT -5
He nailed it for the purposes of that season. Ross, boss, Alford, Koets and Johnson were all adequate to low level players. Steve Smith was good for a couple seasons. I will submit that DeOssie is a fixture and good long snapper and obviously AB was a great Giant. He still used 2 of his first 3 picks on Aaron Ross and Jay Alford who were mediocre football players. I'd even submit that when they drafted DeOssie they didn't think "he'll be our long snapper for 15 years" because they fancied him an actual LB and any 7th rounder is pretty much a shot in the dark. AB even came with character issues that required him still finishing jail time after he was drafted. Well then you are supporting my side of the poll which says that JR wasn't integral but rather, blessed to be hanging around a HOF HC and QB. His actual contribution to the 2 trophies is VERY debatable. I must have missed that somehow, I very much agree with that exact sentiment.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jun 23, 2018 17:45:00 GMT -5
I'm saying another GM could have made equivalent moves and better future moves than Reese. I can't even see the point in denying as much since the whole argument is a hindsight 20/20 perspective. The true difference making members of that team, namely Manning, Burress, Jacobs, Strahan, Tuck, Umenyiora, Pierce, Webster, McKenzie, Snee, Diehl and so on were not Reese guys. Sure the rooks contributed in fine fashion, but outside of a 7th round flier on AB what was the long term value of any of those picks? As far as AB goes, for that 1 piece of 7th round magic Reese pulled from his ***, there were so many drafting failures in his tenure it's almost mind boggling. How many Reese January's did you spend watching zero Giants football? Screw it though, 2 Lombardi's right? I love those wins, but they don't excuse Reese's failures. I get what you are saying . It is still purly specutlive . It is a known Reese won 2 . Another argument to suggest another would have accomplished what he did is just another form of discrediting his accomplishments. Ponder this. If as you say the better moves argument besides BB and Colbert. Name another in the this millennium that has accomplished what JR did. If as your point that equivalent or better move could have been made. Why are there so few that have accomplished winning at least 2 let alone 1? If it were as easy as the better future moves point. Wouldn't it be the case that more then 3 would have accomplished that feat? It is not as easy as you perceive it to be.I would sit through it again for the experience and fulfilment of watching the Giant hoist those Lombardi's . It was well worth it. You really can't blame a guy for being speculative in a purely speculative thread though.
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Post by Zimonami on Jun 23, 2018 17:55:59 GMT -5
I agree, Navy, it does not excuse his failures which were significant. But for my money, credit where credit is due. We got the SBs and because of the structure of the poll, it's an all or nothing proposal. Just like the Manning/Rivers argument. I've seen it posited both here and the old board that if we had any of the other QBs from that draft class we'd have those two plus perhaps more. That is of course as unsupportable as it is ludicrous. The team caught lighting in a bottle twice. Those Giants team were not anywhere near the best teams in the league in either year. The idea that two other QBs that have never taken under talented teams to the SB in their careers would somehow magically do it on the Giants is a curious and very fetched hypothesis. Every GM has a few really good top draft picks. JR was typical in that regard. Everything else was sub par when it came to harvesting talents EXCEPT for that 2007 draft which was his and he nailed it. You made me think (a tenuous thing) about that 2007 draft.. So, now, think about this..... Ernie did not retire until early 2007. The 2006 college season was over, and Ernie, JR, and the rest of the scouting staff, under the direction of EA, had surely started their evaluations of the 2006 class for the 2007 draft. So, how much credit should JR get for that draft? Just like the 2007 SB... it was 95% Ernie's guys, and the continuity with TC and Eli, Stray, Burress, etc.... with some significant help from the 2007 draftees. I will give JR credit for some good FA pickups... If my memory is right (I didn't fact check) Kawika Mitchell and Antonio Pierce were FA pickups and critical to the great play of the defense in the second half surge and throughout the playoffs. That team not only got hot once the defense clicked (the goal line stand against the Skins was the moment they all knew it was coming together) , they proved themselves with their play through 2008, until the house of cards fell down when Burress shot himself.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jun 23, 2018 18:02:23 GMT -5
Every GM has a few really good top draft picks. JR was typical in that regard. Everything else was sub par when it came to harvesting talents EXCEPT for that 2007 draft which was his and he nailed it. You made me think (a tenuous thing) about that 2007 draft.. So, now, think about this..... Ernie did not retire until early 2007. The 2006 college season was over, and Ernie, JR, and the rest of the scouting staff, under the direction of EA, had surely started their evaluations of the 2006 class for the 2007 draft. So, how much credit should JR get for that draft? Just like the 2007 SB... it was 95% Ernie's guys, and the continuity with TC and Eli, Stray, Burress, etc.... with some significant help from the 2007 draftees. I will give JR credit for some good FA pickups... If my memory is right (I didn't fact check) Kawika Mitchell and Antonio Pierce were FA pickups and critical to the great play of the defense in the second half surge and throughout the playoffs. That team not only got hot once the defense clicked (the goal line stand against the Skins was the moment they all knew it was coming together) , they proved themselves with their play through 2008, until the house of cards fell down when Burress shot himself. Mitchell was a JR signing, AP was a EA signing, he was signed the same year as Plaxico Burress. You want to talk about 2 key adds whose value to that 07' SB win can't possibly be understated.
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 23, 2018 18:16:55 GMT -5
Yeah...having a hard time working that through. How do you put aside 2 SB's for a chance to win SB's? Here's a fair question, put a percentage on how much of the credit for the 2007 and 2011 SB's Reese should receive. Let's say you believe about 10%. Fine. Another GM is probably at worst 80% of Reese if he wasn't good and possibly 200% of Reese if he was very good. If you're a Math guy(which I am a bit), that means another GM probably is negligible in results on the negative side with a higher return possibility on the positive side. That's why I wouldn't rehire Reese given the chance. I am a math guy, and I dig your example, but it's off a bit.
Reese is responsible not for 10%...he is responsible for a very, very specific 10%. Without that exact 10%, what do you have? You may have GM who took an all pro safety instead of Boss. Certainly we can argue that would have been the better pick, but it might not be the pick that we needed to win the SB in 07.
It feel like an incredible gamble to say we can wipe out the 10%, the incredibly necessary and specific 10%, and say, "we can do better".
Is it possible that we could have a dynasty under a different GM? Sure...but given how rare 1 SB win is on it's own, very hard for me to get there.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 18:18:23 GMT -5
No doubt. You simply cannot argue against those two Super Bowls. Well, yes you can but you won’t win. Tell that to those who love to say this ignorant quote. "Ernie Accorsi was responsible for both of those Super Bowls" Also, Accorsi had some bad years under his belt as well, yet no one called for his ouster. Remember the Giants O line during Fassel's last two seasons? It was a nightmare. However, it was time for Reese to move on. He'll resurface soon enough and I wish him all the best.
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 23, 2018 18:21:31 GMT -5
You made me think (a tenuous thing) about that 2007 draft.. So, now, think about this..... Ernie did not retire until early 2007. The 2006 college season was over, and Ernie, JR, and the rest of the scouting staff, under the direction of EA, had surely started their evaluations of the 2006 class for the 2007 draft. So, how much credit should JR get for that draft? Just like the 2007 SB... it was 95% Ernie's guys, and the continuity with TC and Eli, Stray, Burress, etc.... with some significant help from the 2007 draftees. I will give JR credit for some good FA pickups... If my memory is right (I didn't fact check) Kawika Mitchell and Antonio Pierce were FA pickups and critical to the great play of the defense in the second half surge and throughout the playoffs. That team not only got hot once the defense clicked (the goal line stand against the Skins was the moment they all knew it was coming together) , they proved themselves with their play through 2008, until the house of cards fell down when Burress shot himself. Mitchell was a JR signing, AP was a EA signing, he was signed the same year as Plaxico Burress. You want to talk about 2 key adds whose value to that 07' SB win can't possibly be understated. So there is a fantastic clip of the Pats running a play in week 17. It's a pass play, and Mitchell drops into coverage. In the SB, the Pats run the same play, and Michell starts to back peddle into coverage, and then the red sea parts in front of him, and he goes barreling in a Brady for a sack.
What happens if Michell isn't on the team?
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