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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jun 26, 2018 8:54:04 GMT -5
To me , I believe any GM with the talent and coach's the Giants had would have looked good and still win the two super bowls now would they have let let the defense and Offense fall off like Reese did ,I say not. when JR took over the foundation was there he had the coach and QB a pass rush and OL,think the timing of when he started to address aging position groups is what hurt him most,it magnified his misses he left himself no room for error and being stubborn really hurt if your tackle isn't working out you have to go back to the well and hope to find one and try to still get something out of a guy like Flowers whats happening now should have happened last year,then on top of it he couldn't keep up the defense starting getting old and very few of the picks were contributing thats how you end up spending a ton of money on other peoples players 200 mill+ and still only fix half the problem,the OL was still the biggest issue it's the hart or motor that run s the team.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jun 26, 2018 9:25:55 GMT -5
Man, JR gets killed for that pick. he WAS a pretty late round pick as I remember. All GM's miss a lot on later round picks.
Robinson was a 4th rounder so there was definitely no guarantee he would pan out.
I mentioned him as an example as someone who was seemingly taken for his athleticism.
Again, one of the things Gettleman pointed out was the need to change the focus of our scouting somewhat - placing more value on the mindset of the player rather than just athleticism.
If you remember, Dave said he's looking for professional football players as opposed to great athletes who play football, or words to that effect.
So it doesn't if it's Adrien Robinson, or Mykele Thompson was was drafted for his speed while most people thought wasn't worth a draft pick, or a Travis Beckum. We've seen way too many draft picks fail for this team.
And let's face it. We haven't have been very good in quite a while so I don't think it's a stretch to expect more draft picks to contribute to our team.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jun 26, 2018 9:36:00 GMT -5
I'm curious...after days of discussion......Have we settled this once and for all? I think some are still trying to figure out the premise of the thread. tough choice to decide wether in hind sight you would do everything the same ,in hind sight for me it would be easy DG was here and waiting,he had more experience outside of the giants organization with teams that were very successful maybe doing things a little differently,and he seemed to to do a fine job while he was here everyone loved JRs free agent signings in 07 DG was in charge of pro personnel back then I believe,I think if the Giants had a competent GM after accorsi they would have been fine for those 2 championships the coach OL pass rush and QB were in place,not saying anyone could have done it but he was left in good salary cap standing and with plenty of talent at the most important positions,seeing how it all starting going down hill soon after his first draft the team,a different choice would have been fine with me now.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jun 26, 2018 9:40:21 GMT -5
Robinson was a 4th rounder so there was definitely no guarantee he would pan out.
I mentioned him as an example as someone who was seemingly taken for his athleticism.
Again, one of the things Gettleman pointed out was the need to change the focus of our scouting somewhat - placing more value on the mindset of the player rather than just athleticism.
If you remember, Dave said he's looking for professional football players as opposed to great athletes who play football, or words to that effect.
So it doesn't if it's Adrien Robinson, or Mykele Thompson was was drafted for his speed while most people thought wasn't worth a draft pick, or a Travis Beckum. We've seen way too many draft picks fail for this team.
And let's face it. We haven't have been very good in quite a while so I don't think it's a stretch to expect more draft picks to contribute to our team.
think your on point they liked drafting combine heroes,there is a big difference between a football player and a real athletic guy who plays football.
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Post by jimmieray on Jun 26, 2018 9:57:54 GMT -5
I think some are still trying to figure out the premise of the thread. tough choice to decide wether in hind sight you would do everything the same ,in hind sight for me it would be easy DG was here and waiting,he had more experience outside of the giants organization with teams that were very successful maybe doing things a little differently,and he seemed to to do a fine job while he was here everyone loved JRs free agent signings in 07 DG was in charge of pro personnel back then I believe,I think if the Giants had a competent GM after accorsi they would have been fine for those 2 championships the coach OL pass rush and QB were in place,not saying anyone could have done it but he was left in good salary cap standing and with plenty of talent at the most important positions,seeing how it all starting going down hill soon after his first draft the team,a different choice would have been fine with me now. The big thing about winning those 2 S.B.s is, our team beat the Patriots, during a dynasty tenure that no one else could seem to do. Now what exactly did Reese do, to make that happen - assemble a less than intimidating team, to take them by surprise?
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Post by Sarcasman on Jun 26, 2018 10:09:24 GMT -5
I’ve started hating it more in recent years as every brainless twit desperately tries to contrive meaning from completely meaningless scrimmages. So...it's not the pre-see games themselves you really hate, it's the brainless twits. I'm with you there. Correct. Just dispense with the pretense and adopt the 18 games season and drop 2 of the preseason games already. Much less for the idiots in media to pretend to analyze.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Jun 26, 2018 10:09:26 GMT -5
I'm curious...after days of discussion......Have we settled this once and for all? I think some are still trying to figure out the premise of the thread. Absolute chaos?
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Post by firminsidepocket on Jun 26, 2018 11:14:05 GMT -5
NO.
The biggest mistake John Mara has ever made in his life, was hiring Jerry Reese over the much more deserving Dave Gettleman in 2007.
Mara finally righted that wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 13:01:34 GMT -5
I'm curious...after days of discussion......Have we settled this once and for all? It’s currently in the Airing of Grievemces phase. The only way anything will get settled is with the Feats of Strength.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jun 26, 2018 13:09:45 GMT -5
NO. The biggest mistake John Mara has ever made in his life, was hiring Jerry Reese over the much more deserving Dave Gettleman in 2007. Mara finally righted that wrong.
Ernie Accorsi recommended Reese to Mara over Gettleman, so it's actually Ernie's fault we ended up with the 2 Super Bowls.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 13:19:48 GMT -5
I'm curious...after days of discussion......Have we settled this once and for all? 67.5% voted yes, so...I'd say it's settled.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 13:22:47 GMT -5
I'm curious...after days of discussion......Have we settled this once and for all? It’s currently in the Airing if Grievemces phase. The only way anything will get settled is with the Feats of Strength.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 13:25:03 GMT -5
NO. The biggest mistake John Mara has ever made in his life, was hiring Jerry Reese over the much more deserving Dave Gettleman in 2007. Mara finally righted that wrong. Ernie Accorsi recommended Reese to Mara over Gettleman, so it's actually Ernie's fault we ended up with the 2 Super Bowls. So does that mean Accorsi should actually be accredited with three SBs?!
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 26, 2018 14:37:53 GMT -5
Who should he have communicated with better?....and how could that possibly effect the players he picked? It doesn't effect any player he has picked or will pick. It absolutely brings his credibility with those picks into play. Personally, I don't think the guy should have ever been allowed in front of a mic or a camera...for his own good, but it has nothing to do with his skills as a GM.
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Post by TEM on Jun 26, 2018 18:27:08 GMT -5
Ernie Accorsi recommended Reese to Mara over Gettleman, so it's actually Ernie's fault we ended up with the 2 Super Bowls. So does that mean Accorsi should actually be accredited with three SBs?! That giff is starting to become overused.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 19:44:26 GMT -5
So does that mean Accorsi should actually be accredited with three SBs?! That giff is starting to become overused. Thanks for keeping me posted.
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Post by Nick6475 on Jun 26, 2018 19:46:53 GMT -5
I think Asante Samuel and Wes Welker deserve more credit for the Giants' SB wins than JR...that lucky SOB...
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Post by TEM on Jun 26, 2018 19:49:57 GMT -5
That giff is starting to become overused. Thanks for keeping me posted. No problem
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jun 26, 2018 20:07:09 GMT -5
tough choice to decide wether in hind sight you would do everything the same ,in hind sight for me it would be easy DG was here and waiting,he had more experience outside of the giants organization with teams that were very successful maybe doing things a little differently,and he seemed to to do a fine job while he was here everyone loved JRs free agent signings in 07 DG was in charge of pro personnel back then I believe,I think if the Giants had a competent GM after accorsi they would have been fine for those 2 championships the coach OL pass rush and QB were in place,not saying anyone could have done it but he was left in good salary cap standing and with plenty of talent at the most important positions,seeing how it all starting going down hill soon after his first draft the team,a different choice would have been fine with me now. The big thing about winning those 2 S.B.s is, our team beat the Patriots, during a dynasty tenure that no one else could seem to do. Now what exactly did Reese do, to make that happen - assemble a less than intimidating team, to take them by surprise? Those were two great wins,all I can say is he was a spoke in the wheel while that team and coaching staff were put together,the nucleus of both teams were put together while he was a worker bee when that nucleus grew old that was the end of the giants being competitive,and the beginning of the free agency revolving door.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jun 26, 2018 21:09:02 GMT -5
I think Asante Samuel and Wes Welker deserve more credit for the Giants' SB wins than JR...that lucky SOB... Yeah, that Edelman sucks. If only he had a QB that could place the ball better.
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Post by solomonphoenix on Jun 26, 2018 21:57:14 GMT -5
Very, very easily yes. It's a no brainer. The Rings Matter.
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Post by solomonphoenix on Jun 26, 2018 21:59:19 GMT -5
based on what we've just seen Gettleman accomplish in the short time he's been here I would say no I wouldn't have hired Reese... What has Gettleman accomplished since he's been here?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 0:00:33 GMT -5
based on what we've just seen Gettleman accomplish in the short time he's been here I would say no I wouldn't have hired Reese... What has Gettleman accomplished since he's been here? I asked the very same question of him earlier in the thread. Got something back about the roster being better, as if rosters win football games. I mean, I know ol' Davey-boy is responsible for bringing in Jonathan Stewart, but...I'd like to see the Giants take at least one regular-season snap before waxing poetic about his "accomplishments".
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Post by TEM on Jun 27, 2018 7:16:27 GMT -5
What has Gettleman accomplished since he's been here? I asked the very same question of him earlier in the thread. Got something back about the roster being better, as if rosters win football games. I mean, I know ol' Davey-boy is responsible for bringing in Jonathan Stewart, but...I'd like to see the Giants take at least one regular-season snap before waxing poetic about his "accomplishments". I think Dave is going to be a good GM. We need him to be. Until he puts one or more in the case. Dave only proves one thing. He has big shoes to fill.
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Post by TEM on Jun 27, 2018 7:36:25 GMT -5
For the 14 that say no ( believe me I respect your honesty )
I posted these numbers in a different thread .
George Young: (1979-1997)
155-139-2 (52%)
10 -6 in the playoffs (2 SB victories)
8 losing seasons (57% losing season percentage )
Ernie Accorsi (1998-2006)
73-71 (51%)
5-9 in the playoffs ( 1 SB loss)
4 losing season ( 45% losing season percentage)
Jerry Reese: (2007-2017)
91-85 (52%)
8-2 in the playoffs (2 SB victories)
4 losing seasons (36% losing season percentage)
If you think JR was not worthy of being hired back in 07 with the knowledge of what he will accomplish ( the good and the bad). Who is?
Would you would feel the same about George Young (He has worse numbers) A bigger losing season % . Not as good as a playoff record. You can argue one was a strike season. So it would change that to 50%. Still well below JR's percentage
The same is true with Accorsi
What would you consider to be a favorable GM because going by these numbers? ( Your record says what you are) By what some posted to be their reasons for Reese not being a worthy GM, not one of these GMs should live up to their expectations.
If it not SB wins
Not winning season %
Not win lose %
What is it that made some think he was not worthy?
I still do not see the relevance in the argument against him.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 8:35:11 GMT -5
What if we win those superbowls and more with another GM who kept the oline from regressing? A guy who had hand in drafting and building the core guys responsible for the first Superbowl win? What if we had a GM that didn't strikeout as much as Reese did in rounds 3-7. What if we kept Reese in the same capacity as he was in 2006 and promoted someone else with a better eye for the oline? I'm gonna vote for No. We would have won those superbowls and had a more formidable team with Reese in the system but someone else in charge. Edit.. FYI.. We can change our vote on this board. I will reiterate again" only 3 GMs out of all the GMs that have been attached to a team have won multiples in this millennium. Only a handful have one 1 . Explain why that is? If your "what If" scenarios were base upon reality. More GMs would have achieved the same results. The fact is Reese's teams won and the others did not. It proves just changing The GM insures nothing and more likely will result in a incomplete team. Now if you want to say you would forfeit the 2 rings and let the darts land where they may have. I am OK with that. You and I are on the same page about Eli. Using the same argument to discredit JR as the Anti Eli proponents use is perplexing to me. I disagree with that assessment. Reese tagged along for the Superbowl wins. The what ifs are what you would expect any competent GM to do. Killdrive said that they told Reese that the oline needed fixing back in 2009 and he couldn't. The superbowl against the Pats would have been a blowout had the refs not helped them by killing our drives with bogus penalties and one of them was on Boothe. What the heck was he doing starting for a eventual Superbowl champion? This tells me exactly how much credit Reese deserves for the Superbowl wins.
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 27, 2018 8:38:32 GMT -5
First of all JR was director of Player Personnel starting in 2004. And then GM in 2007. To suggest that he "tagged along" is either uninformed or dripping with agenda. Either way, I fail to see any reason involved.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 8:48:23 GMT -5
First of all JR was director of Player Personnel starting in 2004. And then GM in 2007. To suggest that he "tagged along" is either uninformed or dripping with agenda. Either way, I fail to see any reason involved. I'm calling it straight but you see it as an agenda because it goes against your view. Let's discuss the posts instead of what you assume may be the reason someone is writing said posts.
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Post by TEM on Jun 27, 2018 9:10:10 GMT -5
I will reiterate again" only 3 GMs out of all the GMs that have been attached to a team have won multiples in this millennium. Only a handful have one 1 . Explain why that is? If your "what If" scenarios were base upon reality. More GMs would have achieved the same results. The fact is Reese's teams won and the others did not. It proves just changing The GM insures nothing and more likely will result in a incomplete team. Now if you want to say you would forfeit the 2 rings and let the darts land where they may have. I am OK with that. You and I are on the same page about Eli. Using the same argument to discredit JR as the Anti Eli proponents use is perplexing to me. I disagree with that assessment. Reese tagged along for the Superbowl wins. The what ifs are what you would expect any competent GM to do. Killdrive said that they told Reese that the oline needed fixing back in 2009 and he couldn't. The superbowl against the Pats would have been a blowout had the refs not helped them by killing our drives with bogus penalties and one of them was on Boothe. What the heck was he doing starting for a eventual Superbowl champion? This tells me exactly how much credit Reese deserves for the Superbowl wins. When What ifs are uses to bolster a point of view. They will always draw a conclusion with one or all three of these parameters. What I want to have happened or happen. What I believed would have happened or happen. To discredit what actually happened . What about the other infinite number of what if possibilities that are always left out? They are never included because that do not conform with the 3 mentioned parameters.
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 27, 2018 9:13:59 GMT -5
First of all JR was director of Player Personnel starting in 2004. And then GM in 2007. To suggest that he "tagged along" is either uninformed or dripping with agenda. Either way, I fail to see any reason involved. I'm calling it straight but you see it as an agenda because it goes against your view. Let's discuss the posts instead of what you assume may be the reason someone is writing said posts. When you claim that a guy who was Director of Player Personnel for 4 years, and then GM for 10, and before that chief scout....is somehow "tagging along" makes absolutely no sense.
What are you basing that claim on?
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