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Post by GameTime on Jul 10, 2018 9:13:52 GMT -5
You are aware that simply knowing who to block before the snap is very basic and can go to hell once the ball is snapped? Knowing how the person next to you will respond to what a defense does is just as important as know what you are supposed to do to respond to the defense's actions. Not really sure why you are struggling so with this basic concept. I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. If 4 guys are blocking 4 people (1 each) on 80% of the players the primary concern of a lineman is to block their man. I don't want Flowers to worry about how Omameh is doing with his man on a given play. Omameh needs to be concerned with his block and Flowers with his. If Flowers is looking over his shoulder to see how the RG is doing, the play will be dead in a heartbeat. What about pulling and trapping etc. That’s not blocking just one guy or the guy in front of you. Your ability to not understand the concept of playing together is mind boggling. Online chemistry is the most important aspect of good consistent online play. Does it breakdown? Of course it does but the units that get this concept and play together are the most successful units.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 9:17:27 GMT -5
I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. If 4 guys are blocking 4 people (1 each) on 80% of the players the primary concern of a lineman is to block their man. I don't want Flowers to worry about how Omameh is doing with his man on a given play. Omameh needs to be concerned with his block and Flowers with his. If Flowers is looking over his shoulder to see how the RG is doing, the play will be dead in a heartbeat. What about pulling and trapping etc. That’s not blocking just one guy or the guy in front of you. Your ability to not understand the concept of playing together is mind boggling. Online chemistry is the most important aspect of good consistent online play. Does it breakdown? Of course it does but the units that get this concept and play together are the most successful units. You're still blocking the guy in front of you. Stunts, trapping and all the other stuff ultimately requires the lineman to block his man. That is the single most IMPORTANT determining factor. What's mind boggling is how you completely disregard the importance of blocking. Do you want 5 Bobby Harts who are on the same page on every play or 5 talented OL?
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2018 9:20:48 GMT -5
You're more than welcome to take 5 Bobby Harts who can read each other's mind on your team. I'm sure they'll be on the same page. Give me 5 talented blockers over 5 Bobby Harts all day everyday, Alex.
Hart is the perfect example of someone who didn't understand the importance of getting on the same page.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 9:24:29 GMT -5
You're still blocking the guy in front of you. Stunts, trapping and all the other stuff ultimately requires the lineman to block his man. And in order to block said man he has to know how his teammate to his left and/or right are going to react to a stunt or blitz. This is very basic football we're talking about here. He never said that or implied that. You're now, again, introducing a strawman argument. IMO the results wouldn't be much different from one another if you have 5 Harts playing very well as a unit vs 5 talented OL who are not.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 10, 2018 9:24:44 GMT -5
What about pulling and trapping etc. That’s not blocking just one guy or the guy in front of you. Your ability to not understand the concept of playing together is mind boggling. Online chemistry is the most important aspect of good consistent online play. Does it breakdown? Of course it does but the units that get this concept and play together are the most successful units. You're still blocking the guy in front of you. Stunts, trapping and all the other stuff ultimately requires the lineman to block his man. That is the single most IMPORTANT determining factor. What's mind boggling is how you completely disregard the importance of blocking. Do you want 5 Bobby Harts who are on the same page on every play or 5 talented OL? How with anything I said am I disregarding blocking? You need talent of course. This is not even a question. But with talent you need chemistry,. Without it the oline will not be consistently good. If you don’t agree with that then that’s fine of course. But it’s basic common sense of oline play
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Post by jmike on Jul 10, 2018 9:26:34 GMT -5
That isn't because they don't know who to expect to block pre-snap based on alignment. Things change once players start moving around the field. I don't mean to sound insulting, but are you playing games here or are you actually this dumb? If you are actually this dumb, I will be happy to continue to help, but I really don't have time for games. There's no point in discussing further with you if you're going to resort to insults. Have a nice day. It wasn't intended as an insult but a question. This has been explained to you in many different ways by many different people, so I question whether you still don't understand or you are just playing games. I find it hard to believe that a reasonably intelligent individual would still not understand the nuances that are not only simple, but have been well explained for several pages. If you really don't get it, please let me know, I will continue to attempt to simplify it for you. If you are playing games, fun is over, let's move on.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 9:31:01 GMT -5
There's no point in discussing further with you if you're going to resort to insults. Have a nice day. It wasn't intended as an insult but a question. This has been explained to you in many different ways by many different people, so I question whether you still don't understand or you are just playing games. I find it hard to believe that a reasonably intelligent individual would still not understand the nuances that are not only simple, but have been well explained for several pages. If you really don't get it, please let me know, I will continue to attempt to simplify it for you. If you are playing games, fun is over, let's move on. oh ok so are you that ridiculously stupid to not understand the importance of blocking? Just let me know if you're that big of a moron so I can have someone else explain it to you because I really don't have the time to spend on idiots.Not to be offensive, but if you are an idiot, just confirm it and then we can end it. If you're not an idiot then we can probably proceed. Again, this is just intended to be a question not an insult.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 9:32:36 GMT -5
You're more than welcome to take 5 Bobby Harts who can read each other's mind on your team. I'm sure they'll be on the same page. Give me 5 talented blockers over 5 Bobby Harts all day everyday, Alex.
Hart is the perfect example of someone who didn't understand the importance of getting on the same page.
He couldn't block a parked car either which is the determining factor as to why he isn't here. Flowers at least showed a glimpse of it the second half of last year even though his IQ is still pretty low.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 10, 2018 9:33:39 GMT -5
It wasn't intended as an insult but a question. This has been explained to you in many different ways by many different people, so I question whether you still don't understand or you are just playing games. I find it hard to believe that a reasonably intelligent individual would still not understand the nuances that are not only simple, but have been well explained for several pages. If you really don't get it, please let me know, I will continue to attempt to simplify it for you. If you are playing games, fun is over, let's move on. oh ok so are you that ridiculously stupid to not understand the importance of blocking? Just let me know if you're that big of a moron so I can have someone else explain it to you because I really don't have the time to spend on idiots.Not to be offensive, but if you are an idiot, just confirm it and then we can end it. If you're not an idiot then we can probably proceed. Again, this is just intended to be a question not an insult. Let’s keep it civil everyone. Thank you. We are discussing football. There are many different views. Several which can be correct. Keep the name calling out if it
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Post by jmike on Jul 10, 2018 9:35:15 GMT -5
It wasn't intended as an insult but a question. This has been explained to you in many different ways by many different people, so I question whether you still don't understand or you are just playing games. I find it hard to believe that a reasonably intelligent individual would still not understand the nuances that are not only simple, but have been well explained for several pages. If you really don't get it, please let me know, I will continue to attempt to simplify it for you. If you are playing games, fun is over, let's move on. oh ok so are you that ridiculously stupid to not understand the importance of blocking? Just let me know if you're that big of a moron so I can have someone else explain it to you because I really don't have the time to spend on idiots.Not to be offensive, but if you are an idiot, just confirm it and then we can end it. If you're not an idiot then we can probably proceed. Again, this is just intended to be a question not an insult. First you may want to point out where I stated that blocking wasn't important. Let's not play pretend in your little game here as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 9:41:12 GMT -5
It wasn't intended as an insult but a question. This has been explained to you in many different ways by many different people, so I question whether you still don't understand or you are just playing games. I find it hard to believe that a reasonably intelligent individual would still not understand the nuances that are not only simple, but have been well explained for several pages. If you really don't get it, please let me know, I will continue to attempt to simplify it for you. If you are playing games, fun is over, let's move on. oh ok so are you that ridiculously stupid to not understand the importance of blocking? Just let me know if you're that big of a moron so I can have someone else explain it to you because I really don't have the time to spend on idiots.Not to be offensive, but if you are an idiot, just confirm it and then we can end it. If you're not an idiot then we can probably proceed. Again, this is just intended to be a question not an insult. For a second time in this thread alone.... He never said that or implied that. You're now, again, introducing a strawman argument.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 9:45:31 GMT -5
oh ok so are you that ridiculously stupid to not understand the importance of blocking? Just let me know if you're that big of a moron so I can have someone else explain it to you because I really don't have the time to spend on idiots.Not to be offensive, but if you are an idiot, just confirm it and then we can end it. If you're not an idiot then we can probably proceed. Again, this is just intended to be a question not an insult. Let’s keep it civil everyone. Thank you. We are discussing football. There are many different views. Several which can be correct. Keep the name calling out if it Since I replied to you and others decided to chime in with one beginning to name call, I am just letting you know that I was disagreeing with you assessment on "same page." I think it's an overrated aspect of the line because it gets brought up very often when discussing the importance of o line play. Is it part of their game? Sure. I did state the linemen are communicating pre snap. The center is calling out protection, the QB is doing the same etc. But I disagree completely with it being more important than individual blocking. That is what I pointed out initially. that was pretty much it. But once the ball is snapped, it's all about blocking. I want Flowers blocking his man and not looking over his shoulder. If he gets beat then being on the same page pre-snap really didn't matter. That's the most important factor for a lineman. His ability to block. Overrated does NOT mean it's insignificant.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 9:55:00 GMT -5
oh ok so are you that ridiculously stupid to not understand the importance of blocking? Just let me know if you're that big of a moron so I can have someone else explain it to you because I really don't have the time to spend on idiots.Not to be offensive, but if you are an idiot, just confirm it and then we can end it. If you're not an idiot then we can probably proceed. Again, this is just intended to be a question not an insult. First you may want to point out where I stated that blocking wasn't important. Let's not play pretend in your little game here as well. You may want to first point out where I stated "being on the same page" wasn't important since this is where it all stemmed from.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2018 9:59:41 GMT -5
Let’s keep it civil everyone. Thank you. We are discussing football. There are many different views. Several which can be correct. Keep the name calling out if it Since I replied to you and others decided to chime in with one beginning to name call, I am just letting you know that I was disagreeing with you assessment on "same page." I think it's an overrated aspect of the line because it gets brought up very often when discussing the importance of o line play. Is it part of their game? Sure. I did state the linemen are communicating pre snap. The center is calling out protection, the QB is doing the same etc. But I disagree completely with it being more important than individual blocking. That is what I pointed out initially. that was pretty much it. But once the ball is snapped, it's all about blocking. I want Flowers blocking his man and not looking over his shoulder. If he gets beat then being on the same page pre-snap really didn't matter. That's the most important factor for a lineman. His ability to block. Overrated does NOT mean it's insignificant.
You can easily find players and coaches talking about the importance of the linemen being on the same page, but I have never heard anyone take the position you have.
I don't care what position it is on a football field, the more you know about someone else's responsibilities, the better you will be. But you seem to view that as a distraction or liability.
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Post by jmike on Jul 10, 2018 10:00:09 GMT -5
The online HAS to perform as a unit. These guys need to be on the same page. Way more important than an “individual” impact. Having a great PFF rating as a RG means nothing if the online as a whole stinks. Same page is overrated. I'm not sure what that even means. Do they hold hands and sing Kumbaya? You need individual skill. These linemen need to hold down their assignments. It doesn't matter if 4 guys are doing well if Flowers is getting beat regularly because he still sucks. Most were responding to your comments in bold there in an attempt to explain to you what it means and how it functions. None of your responses led anyone to believe that you have gained more understanding of the concept. Which is hard for me to believe, which is what led to the question, not an insult, which you still haven't answered.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 10:09:32 GMT -5
Since I replied to you and others decided to chime in with one beginning to name call, I am just letting you know that I was disagreeing with you assessment on "same page." I think it's an overrated aspect of the line because it gets brought up very often when discussing the importance of o line play. Is it part of their game? Sure. I did state the linemen are communicating pre snap. The center is calling out protection, the QB is doing the same etc. But I disagree completely with it being more important than individual blocking. That is what I pointed out initially. that was pretty much it. But once the ball is snapped, it's all about blocking. I want Flowers blocking his man and not looking over his shoulder. If he gets beat then being on the same page pre-snap really didn't matter. That's the most important factor for a lineman. His ability to block. Overrated does NOT mean it's insignificant.
You can easily find players and coaches talking about the importance of the linemen being on the same page, but I have never heard anyone take the position you have.
I don't care what position it is on a football field, the more you know about someone else's responsibilities, the better you will be. But you seem to view that as a distraction or liability.
Of course coaches talk about because it’s part of the game. It becomes an overrated aspect of their game once someone says it’s more important than blocking their man. Singing kumbaya was obviously meant as a joke but people will twist words to fit their narrative. It comes to no surprise the usual suspects will come to my throat with something so insignificant. If Flowers plays 50 snaps and missed his assignment on 1 but did terrific with his 49 other blocks which was more significant? The blocking or the missed assignment? I would take the 49 blocks.
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Post by jmike on Jul 10, 2018 10:33:51 GMT -5
First you may want to point out where I stated that blocking wasn't important. Let's not play pretend in your little game here as well. You may want to first point out where I stated "being on the same page" wasn't important since this is where it all stemmed from. I did.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 10:37:08 GMT -5
You may want to first point out where I stated "being on the same page" wasn't important since this is where it all stemmed from. I did. Nice twist but I am not playing that game with you.
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Post by jmike on Jul 10, 2018 10:37:15 GMT -5
You can easily find players and coaches talking about the importance of the linemen being on the same page, but I have never heard anyone take the position you have.
I don't care what position it is on a football field, the more you know about someone else's responsibilities, the better you will be. But you seem to view that as a distraction or liability.
Of course coaches talk about because it’s part of the game. It becomes an overrated aspect of their game once someone says it’s more important than blocking their man. Singing kumbaya was obviously meant as a joke but people will twist words to fit their narrative. It comes to no surprise the usual suspects will come to my throat with something so insignificant. If Flowers plays 50 snaps and missed his assignment on 1 but did terrific with his 49 other blocks which was more significant? The blocking or the missed assignment? I would take the 49 blocks. Exactly how does taking one's statements literally constitute twisting words? It is in reality the complete opposite.
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Post by jmike on Jul 10, 2018 10:39:29 GMT -5
Nice twist but I am not playing that game with you. Oh, thank you for answering. Good to know that you aren't playing games you just lack the mental acuity to understand. Sorry for questioning your motives. I will try again to make it simpler for you to understand. Give me a bit to think on it, it isn't an easy task to dumb it down quite that much.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 10:45:57 GMT -5
Nice twist but I am not playing that game with you. Oh, thank you for answering. Good to know that you aren't playing games you just lack the mental acuity to understand. Sorry for questioning your motives. I will try again to make it simpler for you to understand. Give me a bit to think on it, it isn't an easy task to dumb it down quite that much. Not going to waste my time with the petty back and forth with you. Bronxprinstripe was obviously right with the motives of some people on here.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2018 10:52:11 GMT -5
You can easily find players and coaches talking about the importance of the linemen being on the same page, but I have never heard anyone take the position you have.
I don't care what position it is on a football field, the more you know about someone else's responsibilities, the better you will be. But you seem to view that as a distraction or liability.
Of course coaches talk about because it’s part of the game. It becomes an overrated aspect of their game once someone says it’s more important than blocking their man. Singing kumbaya was obviously meant as a joke but people will twist words to fit their narrative. It comes to no surprise the usual suspects will come to my throat with something so insignificant. If Flowers plays 50 snaps and missed his assignment on 1 but did terrific with his 49 other blocks which was more significant? The blocking or the missed assignment? I would take the 49 blocks.
Players talk about it too.
As an example, Geoff Schwartz brought up how Hart and Flowers isolated themselves from the rest of the line. Now, we're seeing and hearing about Solder working with Flowers after practice. I just heard Eli describe Solder as a player who "gets it." A player who understands what it takes to win in this league. I don't think it's overrated at all.
The teams with the most talented players don't win championships. The teams that are all-in win championships. No one knows that better than us.
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Post by Zimonami on Jul 10, 2018 10:55:03 GMT -5
We need a 'laugh' button.
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Post by jmike on Jul 10, 2018 10:58:02 GMT -5
Oh, thank you for answering. Good to know that you aren't playing games you just lack the mental acuity to understand. Sorry for questioning your motives. I will try again to make it simpler for you to understand. Give me a bit to think on it, it isn't an easy task to dumb it down quite that much. Not going to waste my time with the petty back and forth with you. Bronxprinstripe was obviously right with the motives of some people on here. You are awfully unappreciative considering that I am only trying to help you.
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Post by Zimonami on Jul 10, 2018 11:07:54 GMT -5
There's more to run blocking and pass blocking than just teeing off on the man in front of you. This is where everyone understanding the assignments of the man next to him, on both sides, and what THEY expect YOU to do, is critical. This is being on the same page. On run blocking you might blow straight at your man, or you might want to drive him left or right, depending on the line asignments of the other guys next to you. Then, there are blocks where two men will criss-cross and hit the other guys man... it becomes important to know who id=s going to fire off first. In pass blocking you might want to block him straight on, or you might want to block him off to your left or to your right... where the guy next to you is blocking his man to becomes important, again, especially to give passing lanes to the QB where he expects to need to see an opening between his blockers, and not bodies in front of him. ALL of this is 'being on the same page'. Individual skills mean nothing if you aren't blocking your man the way the coaches drew it up.
Then, your footwork is what enables you to get into the right position to block your man into the position you want/need. This is where Flowers is horrible.
Often times the OL comes to the line with their blocking assignments and the defense is set in a way that makes your blocking assignment not ideal. This is where the center. once he sees their set-up, must call audibles to reassign their blocks, and everyone, again, needs to be coordinated to make it work.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2018 11:14:41 GMT -5
We need a 'laugh' button.
I use the like button for that.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2018 11:16:20 GMT -5
There's more to run blocking and pass blocking than just teeing off on the man in front of you. This is where everyone understanding the assignments of the man next to him, on both sides, and what THEY expect YOU to do, is critical. This is being on the same page. On run blocking you might blow straight at your man, or you might want to drive him left or right, depending on the line asignments of the other guys next to you. Then, there are blocks where two men will criss-cross and hit the other guys man... it becomes important to know who id=s going to fire off first. In pass blocking you might want to block him straight on, or you might want to block him off to your left or to your right... where the guy next to you is blocking his man to becomes important, again, especially to give passing lanes to the QB where he expects to need to see an opening between his blockers, and not bodies in front of him. ALL of this is 'being on the same page'. Individual skills mean nothing if you aren't blocking your man the way the coaches drew it up. Then, your footwork is what enables you to get into the right position to block your man into the position you want/need. This is where Flowers is horrible. Often times the OL comes to the line with their blocking assignments and the defense is set in a way that makes your blocking assignment not ideal. This is where the center. once he sees their set-up, must call audibles to reassign their blocks, and everyone, again, needs to be coordinated to make it work.
In this case I used the like button for post quality.
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 10, 2018 13:57:30 GMT -5
Oh, thank you for answering. Good to know that you aren't playing games you just lack the mental acuity to understand. Sorry for questioning your motives. I will try again to make it simpler for you to understand. Give me a bit to think on it, it isn't an easy task to dumb it down quite that much. Not going to waste my time with the petty back and forth with you. Bronxprinstripe was obviously right with the motives of some people on here. This kind of thing will not be happening here. There are other MB's to spew unpleasantness. If you want to have good conversations, even with some good natured sarcasm...we are all for it.
Constant unpleasantness and name calling?........no sir.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 14:23:59 GMT -5
Not going to waste my time with the petty back and forth with you. Bronxprinstripe was obviously right with the motives of some people on here. This kind of thing will not be happening here. There are other MB's to spew unpleasantness. If you want to have good conversations, even with some good natured sarcasm...we are all for it.
Constant unpleasantness and name calling?........no sir.
Name calling? Please re-read the thread, thanks.
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Post by jmike on Jul 10, 2018 15:27:57 GMT -5
This kind of thing will not be happening here. There are other MB's to spew unpleasantness. If you want to have good conversations, even with some good natured sarcasm...we are all for it.
Constant unpleasantness and name calling?........no sir.
Name calling? Please re-read the thread, thanks. I agree. I didn't see any name calling either.
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