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Post by Miked1958 on Jul 11, 2018 12:32:18 GMT -5
I say Omameh. He will have the tougher job in pass-pro as the Giants will slide the line left to help the rookie. LG Hernandez / C Halapio double-team on a DT LT Solder has inside help, rides the edge rusher outside RG Omameh has a true 1-on-1 matchup on an island vs the 3-tech RT Flowers will get a chip from TE Ellison 6 blockers against 4 rushers - but only Omameh is truly "on an island" with no help Pat Shurmur runs a WCO. In a WCO, you must have a great pass-blocking RG - which Omameh is. Dude is massive and anchors against power. Omameh will be responsible for the Integrity of the Pocket on most plays. I think you will see a lot of 2WR/2TE sets seeing they don't really have a true #3 WR (Lewis, Latimer,Sharp none really eye popping ) it will put help on Omameh's side even if it's just a chip block by the TE to slow somebody down
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 11, 2018 13:24:27 GMT -5
Speaking of Pugh and Flowers.... "We’re going to look forward to getting better at as a unit. I think all five of us have to come together–it can’t just be me and Ereck–it’s got to be all five guys up front; we’re all on the same page and firing on all cylinders.” - Justin Pugh Why did Pugh get a nice contract while Flowers is fighting for a starting job? Because teams are desperate for O line help....and will overpay for it. You think the Giants are the only team with O line problems? It's all over the league. Probably 80% of NFL teams are struggling up front.
Fans always think that THEIR team is the only one with problems.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 13:29:31 GMT -5
Speaking of Pugh and Flowers.... "We’re going to look forward to getting better at as a unit. I think all five of us have to come together–it can’t just be me and Ereck–it’s got to be all five guys up front; we’re all on the same page and firing on all cylinders.” - Justin Pugh Why did Pugh get a nice contract while Flowers is fighting for a starting job? Because Pugh was a FA and Flowers wasn't. Pretty simple.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 15:09:05 GMT -5
Why did Pugh get a nice contract while Flowers is fighting for a starting job? Because teams are desperate for O line help....and will overpay for it. You think the Giants are the only team with O line problems? It's all over the league. Probably 80% of NFL teams are struggling up front.
Fans always think that THEIR team is the only one with problems.
Pugh got paid because he's actually a good lineman when healthy.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 11, 2018 15:49:36 GMT -5
Because teams are desperate for O line help....and will overpay for it. You think the Giants are the only team with O line problems? It's all over the league. Probably 80% of NFL teams are struggling up front.
Fans always think that THEIR team is the only one with problems.
Pugh got paid because he's actually a good lineman when healthy.
I thought he was better at RT than LG.
Therefor it doesn't surprise me at all that McAdoo moved him.
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Post by jmike on Jul 11, 2018 15:57:00 GMT -5
Pugh got paid because he's actually a good lineman when healthy.
I thought he was better at RT than LG.
Therefor it doesn't surprise me at all that McAdoo moved him.
Agreed. And he was a better LT than Flowers. Should have put him at LT and Flowers at RT, would have made more sense. Even if Pugh is a better LG, if he is your best LT play him at LT.
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Post by boxcarwillie on Jul 11, 2018 16:36:45 GMT -5
I’m most concerne about Flowers. He’s so bad even when he’s on the “same page” as everyone else on the line he still got beat regularly. Even when Pugh would point out to him who to block, it wouldn’t work.
Can you give an example?
Dethroned?
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 11, 2018 18:01:00 GMT -5
I thought he was better at RT than LG.
Therefor it doesn't surprise me at all that McAdoo moved him.
Agreed. And he was a better LT than Flowers. Should have put him at LT and Flowers at RT, would have made more sense. Even if Pugh is a better LG, if he is your best LT play him at LT. Pugh should have moved to LT the day after Will Beatty got hurt. Flowers was penciled in to RT the day he was drafted. And he should have stayed there.
That decision was Tom Coughlin's alone. Oneof TC's worst blunders. That was the original error with Ereck Flowers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 23:06:45 GMT -5
Hernandez is one of the best run blocking guards to ever come out. Omameh is the opposite of John Jerry. Jerry was a good pass blocker but terrible run blocker, Omameh is a better run blocker than pass blocker. . Omameh is like Fluker form last year but better pass protector.
For our offense to get going our run blocking has to be better than our pass blocking. With these 2 pieces i think it will be much better than last year.
Pugh got pushed back a lot, I don't see that happening to hernandez. Solder is an improvement over flowers at LT. Jones average at center and he is being challenged by Halapio. Jones was an improvement over Richberg and if Halapio beats him out, then thats another spot we improve. Flowers at RT is better than Hart at RT.
Nate Solder - 325lbs Hernandez - 330lbs Halapio - 325lbs Omameh - 330lbs Flowers - 330lbs All of these guys are big and are good at run blocking. I dare teams to play 2 deep safety and drop their guys back to bracket our receivers. Not going to happen cause if they do, our running backs, barkley and gallman will get 5-10 yards easy. This is going to be a much more dangerous offense than even the one we saw in 2008 before plaxico shot himself. that year we were beating up on defenses. Heck scored 30 on the ravens at a time when their defense was still top 5.
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Post by TEM on Jul 12, 2018 6:56:53 GMT -5
Agreed. And he was a better LT than Flowers. Should have put him at LT and Flowers at RT, would have made more sense. Even if Pugh is a better LG, if he is your best LT play him at LT. Pugh should have moved to LT the day after Will Beatty got hurt. Flowers was penciled in to RT the day he was drafted. And he should have stayed there.
That decision was Tom Coughlin's alone. Oneof TC's worst blunders. That was the original error with Ereck Flowers.
His back was destroyed playing guard and only lasted 8 games at RT . IMO: there is no way he would have been successful at LT.
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Post by Miked1958 on Jul 12, 2018 10:07:33 GMT -5
Hernandez is one of the best run blocking guards to ever come out. Omameh is the opposite of John Jerry. Jerry was a good pass blocker but terrible run blocker, Omameh is a better run blocker than pass blocker. . Omameh is like Fluker form last year but better pass protector. For our offense to get going our run blocking has to be better than our pass blocking. With these 2 pieces i think it will be much better than last year. Pugh got pushed back a lot, I don't see that happening to hernandez. Solder is an improvement over flowers at LT. Jones average at center and he is being challenged by Halapio. Jones was an improvement over Richberg and if Halapio beats him out, then thats another spot we improve. Flowers at RT is better than Hart at RT. Nate Solder - 325lbs Hernandez - 330lbs Halapio - 325lbs Omameh - 330lbs Flowers - 330lbs All of these guys are big and are good at run blocking. I dare teams to play 2 deep safety and drop their guys back to bracket our receivers. Not going to happen cause if they do, our running backs, barkley and gallman will get 5-10 yards easy. This is going to be a much more dangerous offense than even the one we saw in 2008 before plaxico shot himself. that year we were beating up on defenses. Heck scored 30 on the ravens at a time when their defense was still top 5. Wow I remember that game. Ray Lewis talked all that trash about Brandon Jacobs isn't going to rim him down. First couple plays from scrimmage Jacobs steam rolled him on his way to a 30/35 yard gain. Also pounded him going out of bounds. They jumped all over the Raven's and a bunch of other really good teams that year Beat up on GB, Pittsburgh,AZ so both SB teams and we're putting up big points on O and blasting people on D. Remember balls thrown over middle and guys on GB/Pitt getting pounded and ball going the other way Be great to get back to that type of dominating football
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Post by shocknaweny on Jul 12, 2018 10:11:02 GMT -5
Has to be Hernandez I would think
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 12, 2018 10:27:08 GMT -5
Pugh should have moved to LT the day after Will Beatty got hurt. Flowers was penciled in to RT the day he was drafted. And he should have stayed there.
That decision was Tom Coughlin's alone. Oneof TC's worst blunders. That was the original error with Ereck Flowers.
His back was destroyed playing guard and only lasted 8 games at RT . IMO: there is no way he would have been successful at LT. I'm talking about three or four years ago. When Flowers was drafted.
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Post by shocknaweny on Jul 12, 2018 10:32:41 GMT -5
Because teams are desperate for O line help....and will overpay for it. You think the Giants are the only team with O line problems? It's all over the league. Probably 80% of NFL teams are struggling up front.
Fans always think that THEIR team is the only one with problems.
Pugh got paid because he's actually a good lineman when healthy. I would agree with that and he can play every position on the line with the exception of centre
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Post by shocknaweny on Jul 12, 2018 10:35:44 GMT -5
Hernandez is one of the best run blocking guards to ever come out. Omameh is the opposite of John Jerry. Jerry was a good pass blocker but terrible run blocker, Omameh is a better run blocker than pass blocker. . Omameh is like Fluker form last year but better pass protector. For our offense to get going our run blocking has to be better than our pass blocking. With these 2 pieces i think it will be much better than last year. Pugh got pushed back a lot, I don't see that happening to hernandez. Solder is an improvement over flowers at LT. Jones average at center and he is being challenged by Halapio. Jones was an improvement over Richberg and if Halapio beats him out, then thats another spot we improve. Flowers at RT is better than Hart at RT. Nate Solder - 325lbs Hernandez - 330lbs Halapio - 325lbs Omameh - 330lbs Flowers - 330lbs All of these guys are big and are good at run blocking. I dare teams to play 2 deep safety and drop their guys back to bracket our receivers. Not going to happen cause if they do, our running backs, barkley and gallman will get 5-10 yards easy. This is going to be a much more dangerous offense than even the one we saw in 2008 before plaxico shot himself. that year we were beating up on defenses. Heck scored 30 on the ravens at a time when their defense was still top 5. Wow I remember that game. Ray Lewis talked all that trash about Brandon Jacobs isn't going to rim him down. First couple plays from scrimmage Jacobs steam rolled him on his way to a 30/35 yard gain. Also pounded him going out of bounds. They jumped all over the Raven's and a bunch of other really good teams that year Beat up on GB, Pittsburgh,AZ so both SB teams and we're putting up big points on O and blasting people on D. Remember balls thrown over middle and guys on GB/Pitt getting pounded and ball going the other way Be great to get back to that type of dominating football That was a great game and Jacobs got up after that run in a boxing stance ready to throw some blows lol
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 11:50:43 GMT -5
Agreed. And he was a better LT than Flowers. Should have put him at LT and Flowers at RT, would have made more sense. Even if Pugh is a better LG, if he is your best LT play him at LT. Pugh should have moved to LT the day after Will Beatty got hurt. Flowers was penciled in to RT the day he was drafted. And he should have stayed there.
That decision was Tom Coughlin's alone. Oneof TC's worst blunders. That was the original error with Ereck Flowers.
I don't believe any of this at all but you have some sort of beef with TC. The guy gave us 2 rings, why not cut him some slack like you do with Reese for all his blunders? Now, even if what you said is true, Mac and Reese had 2 years to fix this mistake yet they kept trotting Flowers out there. This doesn't go in line with your blame on TC.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 12, 2018 12:14:00 GMT -5
Pugh should have moved to LT the day after Will Beatty got hurt. Flowers was penciled in to RT the day he was drafted. And he should have stayed there.
That decision was Tom Coughlin's alone. Oneof TC's worst blunders. That was the original error with Ereck Flowers.
I don't believe any of this at all but you have some sort of beef with TC. The guy gave us 2 rings, why not cut him some slack like you do with Reese for all his blunders? Now, even if what you said is true, Mac and Reese had 2 years to fix this mistake yet they kept trotting Flowers out there. This doesn't go in line with your blame on TC.
You don't believe the roster spots are the HC's decision?
I'm very surprised when I learn posters don't understand the basic structure our our organization.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 12:44:10 GMT -5
I don't believe any of this at all but you have some sort of beef with TC. The guy gave us 2 rings, why not cut him some slack like you do with Reese for all his blunders? Now, even if what you said is true, Mac and Reese had 2 years to fix this mistake yet they kept trotting Flowers out there. This doesn't go in line with your blame on TC.
You don't believe the roster spots are the HC's decision?
I'm very surprised when I learn posters don't understand the basic structure our our organization.
Of course the decision to move an inexperienced Flowers to LT was a mistake in hindsight. I find it funny how TC gets the blame when his GM gave him no alternative options. Pugh wasn't the long-term answer and was injury prone. Why didn't Reese or Mac fix this huge blunder and let it linger for another 2 years? Seems like they're absolved in any wrongdoing with this. I'm surprised how much detail I have to get into to explain such a basic comment.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 12, 2018 12:50:42 GMT -5
You are missing the value of having trust in the guys next to you. Knowing you can count on your teammates to be where they are supposed to based on reading the defense is vital to success. I'm not sure why you are unable to grasp that.
There is no different with the linemen than there is with Eli and his wideouts being on the same page.
as an admin I would think you hold yourself to a higher standard instead of the condensending tone. Not once did I say trusting your teammates and understanding schemes is not important. Of course it is. The only difference is I put more value in individual talent then those who prefer someone who is not talented but is a great teammate and understands schemes.
Here's Eli's recent comments on the Oline:
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 12, 2018 12:58:21 GMT -5
You don't believe the roster spots are the HC's decision?
I'm very surprised when I learn posters don't understand the basic structure our our organization.
Of course the decision to move an inexperienced Flowers to LT was a mistake in hindsight. I find it funny how TC gets the blame when his GM gave him no alternative options. Pugh wasn't the long-term answer and was injury prone. Why didn't Reese or Mac fix this huge blunder and let it linger for another 2 years? Seems like they're absolved in any wrongdoing with this. I'm surprised how much detail I have to get into to explain such a basic comment.
You simply cannot use Pugh's injuries as an excuse to blame Reese. The Head Coach controls the roster.
If the HC doesn't have a qualified player to fill a position, it's up to him to put the onus on the GM to get him one.
The fact is the line in '14 & '15 was good enough for us to field a pretty decent offense. I attribute the collapse to McAdoo, but I know full well that injuries factored into last season as well.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 12, 2018 13:05:40 GMT -5
as an admin I would think you hold yourself to a higher standard instead of the condensending tone. Not once did I say trusting your teammates and understanding schemes is not important. Of course it is. The only difference is I put more value in individual talent then those who prefer someone who is not talented but is a great teammate and understands schemes.
Here's Eli's recent comments on the Oline:
I have to admit; I'm looking forward to hearing you argue against Eli views. You see, I tend to simply just listen to what the players and coaches say, with the understanding that they know better than I.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 13:41:50 GMT -5
Here's Eli's recent comments on the Oline:
I have to admit; I'm looking forward to hearing you argue against Eli views. You see, I tend to simply just listen to what the players and coaches say, with the understanding that they know better than I.
Company line to prop up guys. He's really talking to flowers and saying that he sucks but it's OK because he doesn't have to be the best as long as he can play with the unit and follow solder's lead. Basically telling flowers that your not good enough to be a left tackle, you're getting another opportunity and he better make the best of it and follow solder's lead.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 14:18:53 GMT -5
I have to admit; I'm looking forward to hearing you argue against Eli views. You see, I tend to simply just listen to what the players and coaches say, with the understanding that they know better than I.
Company line to prop up guys. He's really talking to flowers and saying that he sucks but it's OK because he doesn't have to be the best as long as he can play with the unit and follow solder's lead. Basically telling flowers that your not good enough to be a left tackle, you're getting another opportunity and he better make the best of it and follow solder's lead. Did anyone think Eli was going to throw a teammate under the bus?
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 12, 2018 14:27:34 GMT -5
You don't believe the roster spots are the HC's decision?
I'm very surprised when I learn posters don't understand the basic structure our our organization.
Of course the decision to move an inexperienced Flowers to LT was a mistake in hindsight. I find it funny how TC gets the blame when his GM gave him no alternative options. Pugh wasn't the long-term answer and was injury prone. Why didn't Reese or Mac fix this huge blunder and let it linger for another 2 years? Seems like they're absolved in any wrongdoing with this. I'm surprised how much detail I have to get into to explain such a basic comment. Wow...Revisionist history. Pugh was not injury prone in 2015. He was a decent RT and was by far the best option at LT after Beatty got hurt. And if you think that Jerry Reese could tell Tom Coughlin to play a rookie at LT against his will....you couldn't be more wrong.
Before the boards close you can go back and look at the conversations at the time. I said it myself that they were nuts putting a rookie at LT when Pugh was there. That is the decision made by the coach. That is how our team works. You should know that by now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 14:48:44 GMT -5
Of course the decision to move an inexperienced Flowers to LT was a mistake in hindsight. I find it funny how TC gets the blame when his GM gave him no alternative options. Pugh wasn't the long-term answer and was injury prone. Why didn't Reese or Mac fix this huge blunder and let it linger for another 2 years? Seems like they're absolved in any wrongdoing with this. I'm surprised how much detail I have to get into to explain such a basic comment. Wow...Revisionist history. Pugh was not injury prone in 2015. He was a decent RT and was by far the best option at LT after Beatty got hurt. And if you think that Jerry Reese could tell Tom Coughlin to play a rookie at LT against his will....you couldn't be more wrong.
Before the boards close you can go back and look at the conversations at the time. I said it myself that they were nuts putting a rookie at LT when Pugh was there. That is the decision made by the coach. That is how our team works. You should know that by now.
It's real easy to pin the blame on the HC even though his OC and eventual replacement was all aboard on the Flowers at LT train. The plan was always to make Flowers the eventual LT but they had to get him acclimated a year early due to injury. It was obviously a disaster and further exasperated by Mac and Reese by stubbornly trotting him out there another 2 more years.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 12, 2018 14:51:32 GMT -5
Company line to prop up guys. He's really talking to flowers and saying that he sucks but it's OK because he doesn't have to be the best as long as he can play with the unit and follow solder's lead. Basically telling flowers that your not good enough to be a left tackle, you're getting another opportunity and he better make the best of it and follow solder's lead. Did anyone think Eli was going to throw a teammate under the bus?
Apparently DS believes that's precisely what Eli's motivation was, but I don't.
Eli's comments are unambiguous and the suggestion that he's was motivated to send Flowers a message when asked about Solder is not only silly but it's unfounded.
So let's not get sidetracked with turning this into nonsense, and instead and let's focus the contrast of opinions.
Again, your words:
And Eli's words:
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Post by jmike on Jul 12, 2018 14:54:00 GMT -5
Rosey, people have an amazing ability to construct their own reality.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 15:08:23 GMT -5
Did anyone think Eli was going to throw a teammate under the bus?
Apparently DS believes that's precisely what Eli's motivation was, but I don't.
Eli's comments are unambiguous and the suggestion that he's was motivated to send Flowers a message when asked about Solder is not only silly but it's unfounded.
So let's not get sidetracked with turning this into nonsense, and instead and let's focus the contrast of opinions.
Again, your words: And Eli's words:
I read his quote. Nothing wrong or controversial about what he said. I still think he'll be a top 5 QB next year, easily. I wouldn't hire him as a GM if he really believed that.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 12, 2018 15:34:53 GMT -5
Apparently DS believes that's precisely what Eli's motivation was, but I don't.
Eli's comments are unambiguous and the suggestion that he's was motivated to send Flowers a message when asked about Solder is not only silly but it's unfounded.
So let's not get sidetracked with turning this into nonsense, and instead and let's focus the contrast of opinions.
Again, your words: And Eli's words:
I read his quote. Nothing wrong or controversial about what he said. I still think he'll be a top 5 QB next year, easily. I wouldn't hire him as a GM if he really believed that.
I think you just sunk yourself young fella.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 12, 2018 15:43:23 GMT -5
Rosey, people have an amazing ability to construct their own reality.
I'd like to wish one individual well on a message board other than this one. I hope he finds what he was looking for.
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