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Post by pocketintegrity on Jul 9, 2018 11:47:39 GMT -5
I say Omameh.
He will have the tougher job in pass-pro as the Giants will slide the line left to help the rookie.
LG Hernandez / C Halapio double-team on a DT
LT Solder has inside help, rides the edge rusher outside
RG Omameh has a true 1-on-1 matchup on an island vs the 3-tech
RT Flowers will get a chip from TE Ellison
6 blockers against 4 rushers - but only Omameh is truly "on an island" with no help
Pat Shurmur runs a WCO. In a WCO, you must have a great pass-blocking RG - which Omameh is. Dude is massive and anchors against power. Omameh will be responsible for the Integrity of the Pocket on most plays.
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Post by Parademon1 on Jul 9, 2018 12:27:25 GMT -5
Based on that scenario, then yeah, Omameh is gonna be the key to the success of the OL this yr, let's pray he stays healthy all yr.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 9, 2018 12:35:55 GMT -5
The online HAS to perform as a unit. These guys need to be on the same page. Way more important than an “individual” impact. Having a great PFF rating as a RG means nothing if the online as a whole stinks.
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Post by jmike on Jul 9, 2018 13:58:22 GMT -5
The online HAS to perform as a unit. These guys need to be on the same page. Way more important than an “individual” impact. Having a great PFF rating means nothing. Fixed it.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 9, 2018 14:16:35 GMT -5
Reading PFF.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 15:11:56 GMT -5
The online HAS to perform as a unit. These guys need to be on the same page. Way more important than an “individual” impact. Having a great PFF rating as a RG means nothing if the online as a whole stinks. Same page is overrated. I'm not sure what that even means. Do they hold hands and sing Kumbaya? You need individual skill. These linemen need to hold down their assignments. It doesn't matter if 4 guys are doing well if Flowers is getting beat regularly because he still sucks.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 9, 2018 15:25:23 GMT -5
The online HAS to perform as a unit. These guys need to be on the same page. Way more important than an “individual” impact. Having a great PFF rating as a RG means nothing if the online as a whole stinks. Same page is overrated. I'm not sure what that even means. Do they hold hands and sing Kumbaya? You need individual skill. These linemen need to hold down their assignments. It doesn't matter if 4 guys are doing well if Flowers is getting beat regularly because he still sucks.
The Olinemen need to be on the same page recognizing blitzes and stunts, etc. It's not overrated at all.
Skill alone is not good enough.
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Post by jmike on Jul 9, 2018 15:39:30 GMT -5
The online HAS to perform as a unit. These guys need to be on the same page. Way more important than an “individual” impact. Having a great PFF rating as a RG means nothing if the online as a whole stinks. Same page is overrated. I'm not sure what that even means. Do they hold hands and sing Kumbaya? You need individual skill. These linemen need to hold down their assignments. It doesn't matter if 4 guys are doing well if Flowers is getting beat regularly because he still sucks. A good offensive line is better than the sum of its parts. Players who work together regularly know how each other will respond because they will be reading alignments, stunts, blitzes, etc...the same way. In this way you will know where your responsibility lies instinctually, two linemen won't go after the same player and leave one free for example. This is colloquially called "being on the same page". By contrast, you get 5 pro-bowlers who have never played together they will not perform as a unit as well as a line of good but less then pro-bowl players who have played together for several years. Just look at the offensive line the Giants had of Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee and McKenzie. Individually they were each good players, some better than others; but as a unit they were a force and the reason that the team could run the ball almost at will for several years.
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Post by TEM on Jul 9, 2018 16:34:22 GMT -5
Same page is; you better know what the guy on either side of you is going to do.
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 9, 2018 16:45:12 GMT -5
The online HAS to perform as a unit. These guys need to be on the same page. Way more important than an “individual” impact. Having a great PFF rating as a RG means nothing if the online as a whole stinks. Same page is overrated. I'm not sure what that even means. Do they hold hands and sing Kumbaya? You need individual skill. These linemen need to hold down their assignments. It doesn't matter if 4 guys are doing well if Flowers is getting beat regularly because he still sucks. It takes coaching. which we have lacked.
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Post by TEM on Jul 9, 2018 17:28:52 GMT -5
As long as they both smack the guy in front of them with a big impact , all we be good.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 9, 2018 17:38:22 GMT -5
The online HAS to perform as a unit. These guys need to be on the same page. Way more important than an “individual” impact. Having a great PFF rating as a RG means nothing if the online as a whole stinks. Same page is overrated. I'm not sure what that even means. Do they hold hands and sing Kumbaya? You need individual skill. These linemen need to hold down their assignments. It doesn't matter if 4 guys are doing well if Flowers is getting beat regularly because he still sucks. so you have no idea what "being on the same page"is?? Its called playing together as a unit. If an oline doesnt play as as a unit the individual talent is wasted.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 19:16:26 GMT -5
As long as they both smack the guy in front of them with a big impact , all we be good. I’m most concerne about Flowers. He’s so bad even when he’s on the “same page” as everyone else on the line he still got beat regularly. Even when Pugh would point out to him who to block, it wouldn’t work.
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Post by TEM on Jul 9, 2018 19:57:43 GMT -5
He improved in the second half last season. I think he will be just fine at RG. No one has dethroned him so far.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 9, 2018 20:50:17 GMT -5
As long as they both smack the guy in front of them with a big impact , all we be good. I’m most concerne about Flowers. He’s so bad even when he’s on the “same page” as everyone else on the line he still got beat regularly. Even when Pugh would point out to him who to block, it wouldn’t work.
Can you give an example?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 7:43:29 GMT -5
He improved in the second half last season. I think he will be just fine at RG. No one has dethroned him so far. RG??? This is just a typo correct??? Flowers has many problems and I don't recall him improving the 2nd half of the season.. He did have a good few games pass blocking (no sacks) in the middle but still couldn't run block for shit...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 8:00:41 GMT -5
He improved in the second half last season. I think he will be just fine at RG. No one has dethroned him so far. He might have improved a bit from his first half production but he really couldn't get any worse at that point. I want to see how he does in the pre-season and how he holds up when he needs to hold his block for more than 2 seconds. All I know is having him move from LT to RT is already a plus since he's no longer on Eli's blind side.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 8:23:34 GMT -5
I’m most concerne about Flowers. He’s so bad even when he’s on the “same page” as everyone else on the line he still got beat regularly. Even when Pugh would point out to him who to block, it wouldn’t work.
Can you give an example?
Plenty of tape. I'm sure you watch games and see how the O line communicates at the LOS. This is what most here assume is the definition of "being on the same page." Again I think it's overrated. Pre- snap communication is always there and the players more often than not know who to block before the snap.
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Post by jmike on Jul 10, 2018 8:35:47 GMT -5
As long as they both smack the guy in front of them with a big impact , all we be good. I’m most concerne about Flowers. He’s so bad even when he’s on the “same page” as everyone else on the line he still got beat regularly. Even when Pugh would point out to him who to block, it wouldn’t work. You are aware that simply knowing who to block before the snap is very basic and can go to hell once the ball is snapped? Knowing how the person next to you will respond to what a defense does is just as important as know what you are supposed to do to respond to the defense's actions. Not really sure why you are struggling so with this basic concept.
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Post by jmike on Jul 10, 2018 8:37:49 GMT -5
Plenty of tape. I'm sure you watch games and see how the O line communicates at the LOS. This is what most here assume is the definition of "being on the same page." Again I think it's overrated. Pre- snap communication is always there and the players more often than not know who to block before the snap. If they didn't know who to block pre snap, they would have never even seen the field in high school.
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Post by Zimonami on Jul 10, 2018 8:49:01 GMT -5
Same page is overrated. I'm not sure what that even means. Do they hold hands and sing Kumbaya? You need individual skill. These linemen need to hold down their assignments. It doesn't matter if 4 guys are doing well if Flowers is getting beat regularly because he still sucks. An good offensive line is better than the sum of its parts. Players who work together regularly know how each other will respond because they will be reading alignments, stunts, blitzes, etc...the same way. In this way you will know where your responsibility lies instinctually, two linemen won't go after the same player and leave one free for example. This is colloquially called "being on the same page". By contrast, you get 5 pro-bowlers who have never played together they will not perform as a unit as well as a line of good but less then pro-bowl players who have played together for several years. Just look at the offensive line the Giants had of Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee and McKenzie. Individually they were each good players, some better than others; but as a unit they were a force and the reason that the team could run the ball almost at will for several years. Your example of Diehl, Seubert, et al, is excellent. I wish you could have seen the '86 Giants... Benson, Ard, Oates, Godfrey and Nelson. I'll throw Bavaro in their, too, because he was a devastating blocker. Simms had more time than any other year in his career and Joe Morris ran thru some holes that were wide as a Cadillac. None of those names jump out at you as an All Pro, but they were beautiful the way they worked together. Easiest way to understand and appreciate is to just watch SB XX! against the Broncos.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 8:52:51 GMT -5
Plenty of tape. I'm sure you watch games and see how the O line communicates at the LOS. This is what most here assume is the definition of "being on the same page." Again I think it's overrated. Pre- snap communication is always there and the players more often than not know who to block before the snap. If they didn't know who to block pre snap, they would have never even seen the field in high school. Blown assignments still happen in the NFL. Players still whiff on blocks. Happened to Flowers and Hart plenty of times.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 8:57:10 GMT -5
I’m most concerne about Flowers. He’s so bad even when he’s on the “same page” as everyone else on the line he still got beat regularly. Even when Pugh would point out to him who to block, it wouldn’t work. You are aware that simply knowing who to block before the snap is very basic and can go to hell once the ball is snapped? Knowing how the person next to you will respond to what a defense does is just as important as know what you are supposed to do to respond to the defense's actions. Not really sure why you are struggling so with this basic concept. I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. If 4 guys are blocking 4 people (1 each) on 80% of the players the primary concern of a lineman is to block their man. I don't want Flowers to worry about how Omameh is doing with his man on a given play. Omameh needs to be concerned with his block and Flowers with his. If Flowers is looking over his shoulder to see how the RG is doing, the play will be dead in a heartbeat.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 9:04:38 GMT -5
The online HAS to perform as a unit. These guys need to be on the same page. Way more important than an “individual” impact. Having a great PFF rating as a RG means nothing if the online as a whole stinks. Same page is overrated. I'm not sure what that even means. Do they hold hands and sing Kumbaya? You need individual skill. These linemen need to hold down their assignments. It doesn't matter if 4 guys are doing well if Flowers is getting beat regularly because he still sucks. It means being able to perform as one unit. No other unit in football playing as one is more important than OL. If the RG doesn't know the C's and RT's assignment for the play called that could be disastrous. Same with any position along the OL. It's far more than just individual skill and individual one-on-ones.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 9:07:14 GMT -5
I’m most concerne about Flowers. He’s so bad even when he’s on the “same page” as everyone else on the line he still got beat regularly. Even when Pugh would point out to him who to block, it wouldn’t work. You are aware that simply knowing who to block before the snap is very basic and can go to hell once the ball is snapped? Knowing how the person next to you will respond to what a defense does is just as important as know what you are supposed to do to respond to the defense's actions. Not really sure why you are struggling so with this basic concept. ^ The simplest and most concise explanation.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2018 9:09:38 GMT -5
Plenty of tape. I'm sure you watch games and see how the O line communicates at the LOS. This is what most here assume is the definition of "being on the same page." Again I think it's overrated. Pre- snap communication is always there and the players more often than not know who to block before the snap.
I think you are way off on the importance of this. All linemen need to see and think the same. The Oline performs best in unison.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 9:09:52 GMT -5
You're more than welcome to take 5 Bobby Harts who can read each other's mind on your team. I'm sure they'll be on the same page.
Give me 5 talented blockers over 5 Bobby Harts all day everyday, Alex.
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Post by jmike on Jul 10, 2018 9:10:49 GMT -5
If they didn't know who to block pre snap, they would have never even seen the field in high school. Blown assignments still happen in the NFL. Players still whiff on blocks. Happened to Flowers and Hart plenty of times. That isn't because they don't know who to expect to block pre-snap based on alignment. Things change once players start moving around the field. I don't mean to sound insulting, but are you playing games here or are you actually this dumb? If you are actually this dumb, I will be happy to continue to help, but I really don't have time for games.
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Post by jmike on Jul 10, 2018 9:12:43 GMT -5
You are aware that simply knowing who to block before the snap is very basic and can go to hell once the ball is snapped? Knowing how the person next to you will respond to what a defense does is just as important as know what you are supposed to do to respond to the defense's actions. Not really sure why you are struggling so with this basic concept. ^ The simplest and most concise explanation. Thank you, I am trying to make sense of it for him.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 9:13:36 GMT -5
Blown assignments still happen in the NFL. Players still whiff on blocks. Happened to Flowers and Hart plenty of times. That isn't because they don't know who to expect to block pre-snap based on alignment. Things change once players start moving around the field. I don't mean to sound insulting, but are you playing games here or are you actually this dumb? If you are actually this dumb, I will be happy to continue to help, but I really don't have time for games. There's no point in discussing further with you if you're going to resort to insults. Have a nice day.
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