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Post by IrishMike on Mar 15, 2020 11:53:45 GMT -5
He'll want more than that, not worth it. On another subject, I may sound stupid but cut of Solder saves $6.5 million on cap but leaves 13 million in dead cap. He's been awful, Jones needs a big time LT. Which pass rusher would you bring in instead of Williams to help the pass rush?
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Post by TEM on Mar 15, 2020 11:56:32 GMT -5
This does seem to be where this is going with MS.I just don't know if he is doing it to bust em off on people. or does the dismissal of JR still sting him. So it''s your view that we should pay Leonard Williams $12 to $15MM per year? Instead of attacking other posters....maybe you all can actually stick to the topic at hand.
My view is that those resources are better used for other needs than another D lineman who can't get to the QB. Not sure what that has to do with Jerry Reese......but go for it if it makes you feel better.
Not attacking other posters just stating the obvious and yes 12-15 for good 3-4 DE is the right price
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 15, 2020 11:59:39 GMT -5
That's my understanding, been listening to them on tv the last hour or two. I could be wrong, certainly won't be the first time... Think they can use a tag only one but there choice either franchise or transition. I just googled it, you're right. Hopefully this is the worst mistake I make today, be a good day if so...
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 15, 2020 12:03:24 GMT -5
Think they can use a tag only one but there choice either franchise or transition. I just googled it, you're right. Hopefully this is the worst mistake I make today, be a good day if so... good transition tag willl work for price gaging.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 15, 2020 12:54:49 GMT -5
So it''s your view that we should pay Leonard Williams $12 to $15MM per year? Instead of attacking other posters....maybe you all can actually stick to the topic at hand.
My view is that those resources are better used for other needs than another D lineman who can't get to the QB. Not sure what that has to do with Jerry Reese......but go for it if it makes you feel better.
The problem here is you dismiss Williams as if he didn't help the defense he did and opened things up for other players as I said he is back there moving the QB hitting the QB doesn't matter they don't sign him they will have to either sign or draft someone else he will get his money from smart team like the Pats who will know what to do with him. I'm sure he "helped" the defense since he is an above average player. But he's limited. I'm not really arguing that the kid isn't a good player. I'm arguing that his limits make him a poor investment at that level. In our case, we really need to focus on bringing in solid vets at reasonable salaries. We are a building team. We aren't one player away. We're double digit players away.
Paying that much for Leonard Williams is self defeating. But I'm sure we will franchise him. It's the only thing Dave can do to save face. If we do, at $17MM, I think it would be a mistake.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 15, 2020 13:17:05 GMT -5
The problem here is you dismiss Williams as if he didn't help the defense he did and opened things up for other players as I said he is back there moving the QB hitting the QB doesn't matter they don't sign him they will have to either sign or draft someone else he will get his money from smart team like the Pats who will know what to do with him. I'm sure he "helped" the defense since he is an above average player. But he's limited. I'm not really arguing that the kid isn't a good player. I'm arguing that his limits make him a poor investment at that level. In our case, we really need to focus on bringing in solid vets at reasonable salaries. We are a building team. We aren't one player away. We're double digit players away.
Paying that much for Leonard Williams is self defeating. But I'm sure we will franchise him. It's the only thing Dave can do to save face. If we do, at $17MM, I think it would be a mistake.
Dave doesn't have to save face think he cares what people think if it makes sense it will be done. I think the transition tag fits better 13 mill and he can shop himself.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 15, 2020 13:19:16 GMT -5
I'm sure he "helped" the defense since he is an above average player. But he's limited. I'm not really arguing that the kid isn't a good player. I'm arguing that his limits make him a poor investment at that level. In our case, we really need to focus on bringing in solid vets at reasonable salaries. We are a building team. We aren't one player away. We're double digit players away.
Paying that much for Leonard Williams is self defeating. But I'm sure we will franchise him. It's the only thing Dave can do to save face. If we do, at $17MM, I think it would be a mistake.
Dave doesn't have to save face think he cares what people think if it makes sense it will be done. I think the transition tag fits better 13 mill and he can shop himself. We can pay someone half that and focus our cap space on other needs. Like CB, LB and O line.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 15, 2020 13:21:28 GMT -5
We can pay someone half that and focus our cap space on other needs. Like CB, LB and O line. Who?
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rbe40
Special Teams
Posts: 800
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Post by rbe40 on Mar 15, 2020 13:31:54 GMT -5
Dave doesn't have to save face think he cares what people think if it makes sense it will be done. I think the transition tag fits better 13 mill and he can shop himself. We can pay someone half that and focus our cap space on other needs. Like CB, LB and O line. 3-4 DE is one of the biggest needs.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 15, 2020 13:47:20 GMT -5
We can pay someone half that and focus our cap space on other needs. Like CB, LB and O line. Who? Maybe Olivier Vernon is available! The Giants really need a bona fide pass rusher so if they're gonna overpay, overpay for the sure thing.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 15, 2020 14:20:46 GMT -5
Dave doesn't have to save face think he cares what people think if it makes sense it will be done. I think the transition tag fits better 13 mill and he can shop himself. We can pay someone half that and focus our cap space on other needs. Like CB, LB and O line. They aren't getting that player for 6 or7 million. Even signing him they can get a good corner and LB in free agency and a center draft their tackle and more LB help. I get why your saying they can spend 6 million on below average at best DT that plays one spot and doesn't do much, The Giants have some good players and he is one of them and young they should be trying to keep the good young talent they have. and adding to it in the draft.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 15, 2020 14:24:06 GMT -5
Maybe Olivier Vernon is available! The Giants really need a bona fide pass rusher so if they're gonna overpay, overpay for the sure thing. LOL
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 15, 2020 16:08:33 GMT -5
We can pay someone half that and focus our cap space on other needs. Like CB, LB and O line. They aren't getting that player for 6 or7 million. Even signing him they can get a good corner and LB in free agency and a center draft their tackle and more LB help. I get why your saying they can spend 6 million on below average at best DT that plays one spot and doesn't do much, The Giants have some good players and he is one of them and young they should be trying to keep the good young talent they have. and adding to it in the draft. Well I'm sure you'll get your wish. I'm sure they will franchise him.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 15, 2020 16:16:40 GMT -5
We can pay someone half that and focus our cap space on other needs. Like CB, LB and O line. They aren't getting that player for 6 or7 million. Even signing him they can get a good corner and LB in free agency and a center draft their tackle and more LB help. I get why your saying they can spend 6 million on below average at best DT that plays one spot and doesn't do much, The Giants have some good players and he is one of them and young they should be trying to keep the good young talent they have. and adding to it in the draft. Are you sure? People here seem to want to get rid of everyone that's not an All Pro and complain about the one guy on this team that is All Pro caliber lol.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 15, 2020 16:48:39 GMT -5
They aren't getting that player for 6 or7 million. Even signing him they can get a good corner and LB in free agency and a center draft their tackle and more LB help. I get why your saying they can spend 6 million on below average at best DT that plays one spot and doesn't do much, The Giants have some good players and he is one of them and young they should be trying to keep the good young talent they have. and adding to it in the draft. Are you sure? People here seem to want to get rid of everyone that's not an All Pro and complain about the one guy on this team that is All Pro caliber lol. LOL sad isn't it the agenda BS should be dropped.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 15, 2020 16:53:12 GMT -5
They aren't getting that player for 6 or7 million. Even signing him they can get a good corner and LB in free agency and a center draft their tackle and more LB help. I get why your saying they can spend 6 million on below average at best DT that plays one spot and doesn't do much, The Giants have some good players and he is one of them and young they should be trying to keep the good young talent they have. and adding to it in the draft. Well I'm sure you'll get your wish. I'm sure they will franchise him. It's not my wish I just want good players on the team and he is a really good one and a versatile one.
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Post by Delicreep on Mar 15, 2020 17:09:54 GMT -5
Are you sure? People here seem to want to get rid of everyone that's not an All Pro and complain about the one guy on this team that is All Pro caliber lol. LOL sad isn't it the agenda BS should be dropped. Is Williams worth the amount we would pay with a tag?
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 15, 2020 17:18:36 GMT -5
LOL sad isn't it the agenda BS should be dropped. Is Williams worth the amount we would pay with a tag? I would not give Williams a 3-5 year deal worth $15m (the tag price). For one year though he is absolutely worth it, especially in a year where there is no real pass rush help to be found. We have tons of cap space and when this happens I like contracts that don't all end 4 years from now. So tagging him this year gives us another year with him and allows us to have a nice pot of money for next year to spend on a free agent.
It would be a different story if there were a few pass rushers out there we could get.
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Post by Delicreep on Mar 15, 2020 17:55:20 GMT -5
Is Williams worth the amount we would pay with a tag? I would not give Williams a 3-5 year deal worth $15m (the tag price). For one year though he is absolutely worth it, especially in a year where there is no real pass rush help to be found. We have tons of cap space and when this happens I like contracts that don't all end 4 years from now. So tagging him this year gives us another year with him and allows us to have a nice pot of money for next year to spend on a free agent.
It would be a different story if there were a few pass rushers out there we could get.
I was asking about the one year tag price. If they areas far apart as indicated, it's a realistic possibility.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 15, 2020 18:12:35 GMT -5
I was asking about the one year tag price. If they areas far apart as indicated, it's a realistic possibility. Yeah. I think he is worth $15m for this year unless we could find another pass rusher in free agency. This is a very weak free agent pass rush class and the draft class does not look good either. We need to improve our pass rush and I don't think removing our #2 man in QB pressures is a good plan in a year it's hard to find pass rushers.
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Post by Delicreep on Mar 15, 2020 18:29:29 GMT -5
I was asking about the one year tag price. If they areas far apart as indicated, it's a realistic possibility. Yeah. I think he is worth $15m for this year unless we could find another pass rusher in free agency. This is a very weak free agent pass rush class and the draft class does not look good either. We need to improve our pass rush and I don't think removing our #2 man in QB pressures is a good plan in a year it's hard to find pass rushers. I'm torn on that concept. I very, very much don't want to set our D back a a single step, and I also don't want to over commit funds.The Tag does seem like a way to work right down the middle of that.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 15, 2020 18:32:40 GMT -5
I'm torn on that concept. I very, very much don't want to set our D back a a single step, and I also don't want to over commit funds.The Tag does seem like a way to work right down the middle of that. I don't think I would be for the tag in a year we don't have lots of cap space but this year with almost $80m in cap space I think the tag would make sense. We can still target any other players we want and it only locks our money up for 1 season.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 15, 2020 19:03:50 GMT -5
LOL sad isn't it the agenda BS should be dropped. Is Williams worth the amount we would pay with a tag? transition tag yes franchise tag no but the franchise tags used to buy time to get deal done his value seems to be between 12 and 15 mill per.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 15, 2020 19:12:43 GMT -5
Is Williams worth the amount we would pay with a tag? transition tag yes franchise tag no but the franchise tags used to buy time to get deal done his value seems to be between 12 and 15 mill per. The franchise tag for a DT is only $15m, so at the top end of his value. I think his value on the open market would be less, probably 10-12 for a 4 year deal IMO. Sportrac had him at $8-$9m though.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 15, 2020 19:12:45 GMT -5
Is Williams worth the amount we would pay with a tag? I would not give Williams a 3-5 year deal worth $15m (the tag price). For one year though he is absolutely worth it, especially in a year where there is no real pass rush help to be found. We have tons of cap space and when this happens I like contracts that don't all end 4 years from now. So tagging him this year gives us another year with him and allows us to have a nice pot of money for next year to spend on a free agent.
It would be a different story if there were a few pass rushers out there we could get.
If they sign him to 12 to 15 per the cap is estimated to go up in 2021 30 to 50 mill free agents are going for it this year because of this.I'm not sure how the teams are reacting to this but you will see some big contracts I believe.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 15, 2020 19:53:04 GMT -5
transition tag yes franchise tag no but the franchise tags used to buy time to get deal done his value seems to be between 12 and 15 mill per. The franchise tag for a DT is only $15m, so at the top end of his value. I think his value on the open market would be less, probably 10-12 for a 4 year deal IMO. Sportrac had him at $8-$9m though. When you got Donalds making 21 mill Wlliams isn't gonna be getting paid 8 to 10 mill a year. Think his value is a solid 12 to 15 mill in this market.
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Post by giants38 on Mar 15, 2020 21:59:16 GMT -5
Real dynamic pass rushers are rarely allowed to leave their teams. The pickings are probably going to be slim. I think the draft will be the best place to find them.
Guys like Leonard Williams are traded for mid round picks. Guys who don't get to the QB. Linval is a better player than Williams and he was released. Guys who get to the QB?....Much more hard to find.
Very true but it does not answer the question. You don't want to spend money on Williams, so which pass rusher should we spend money on to help our pass rush? Your argument cannot be answered because your question is false. Williams is not a pass rusher.
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Post by giants38 on Mar 15, 2020 22:07:18 GMT -5
I was asking about the one year tag price. If they areas far apart as indicated, it's a realistic possibility. Yeah. I think he is worth $15m for this year unless we could find another pass rusher in free agency. This is a very weak free agent pass rush class and the draft class does not look good either. We need to improve our pass rush and I don't think removing our #2 man in QB pressures is a good plan in a year it's hard to find pass rushers. Are you paying Williams 15M as a pass rusher?
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 16, 2020 6:23:46 GMT -5
I was asking about the one year tag price. If they areas far apart as indicated, it's a realistic possibility. Yeah. I think he is worth $15m for this year unless we could find another pass rusher in free agency. This is a very weak free agent pass rush class and the draft class does not look good either. We need to improve our pass rush and I don't think removing our #2 man in QB pressures is a good plan in a year it's hard to find pass rushers. What is this about Jacksonville trading away Calais Campbell, supposedly for just a kicker and a 5th round pick? Am I missing something?
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Post by TEM on Mar 16, 2020 8:39:54 GMT -5
They aren't getting that player for 6 or7 million. Even signing him they can get a good corner and LB in free agency and a center draft their tackle and more LB help. I get why your saying they can spend 6 million on below average at best DT that plays one spot and doesn't do much, The Giants have some good players and he is one of them and young they should be trying to keep the good young talent they have. and adding to it in the draft. Well I'm sure you'll get your wish. I'm sure Judge will franchise him. Fixed it for you. LOL
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