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Post by thetruth on Jul 20, 2020 14:53:01 GMT -5
Where do feel he is incorrect? highlight examples in the vid if you dont mind as im curious. If anyone here is sensitive that the guy analyzing the vid is showing that Daniel Jones doesn't really have any pocket awareness id like you explain how this is biased, based on what we have seen from Jones. Jones has potential to be great, but he absolutely needs to clean up his pocket awareness and feel for the pass rush. He will not be a successful QB with these issues. Also, Daniels performance in the play-action was putrid. This needs to be MUCH better, it shouldn't be hard with SB in the backfield. Also, for as much hate as Shurmur got, he put Daniel in positions to succeed. Lets see how Garrett schemes the offense, he's done wonders with Romo and Prescott who both have excellent pocket awareness for the most part. I never said he was incorrect. In fact I said he was mostly correct. What are you referring to when you're saying its hard to evaluate the source? other than claiming some sort of bias. If you see the Bias i'd like to know as I dont think thats the case and nor do I want to post anything wreaking of it. This is as objective of a take on Jones as i've seen.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 20, 2020 15:01:28 GMT -5
Baker Mayfield threw 21 picks in 2019 and isn't receiving this kind of scrutiny. Many successful players had fumbling issues early in their careers which tapered off in time. It's fixable, interceptions not as much. How many talented QB's fumbled their way out of a career? A better question is, how many talented QB's who have long careers show poor pocket awareness? Other than accuracy and decision making, nothing else is more important. The reason for Daniels fumbles he is gets hit throwing the ball a lot. He doesn't naturally feel the pass rush. This needs to improve I agree with that.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 20, 2020 15:03:24 GMT -5
I never said he was incorrect. In fact I said he was mostly correct. What are you referring to when you're saying its hard to evaluate the source? other than claiming some sort of bias. This is as objective of a take on Jones as i've seen. There are quite a few pundits who hated the pick that have done posts like this. They admit they were impressed, but spend most of the time pointing out mistakes. Wow, a rookie QB behind a bad ol made mistakes? Made bad decisions? Astonishing! He also set multiple records as a rookie. I specifically said he was right on most of what he said, but the fact he spent most of the video pointing out the bad instead of the good shows bias, IMO.
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Post by thetruth on Jul 20, 2020 15:54:42 GMT -5
What are you referring to when you're saying its hard to evaluate the source? other than claiming some sort of bias. This is as objective of a take on Jones as i've seen. There are quite a few pundits who hated the pick that have done posts like this. They admit they were impressed, but spend most of the time pointing out mistakes. Wow, a rookie QB behind a bad ol made mistakes? Made bad decisions? Astonishing! He also set multiple records as a rookie. I specifically said he was right on most of what he said, but the fact he spent most of the video pointing out the bad instead of the good shows bias, IMO. I think he did a great job of showing us some really great throws from Jones. Showing excellent anticipation. Thats rare. If he just learns to play better within the pocket the sky is the limit.
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Post by Eagles R. Guano on Jul 20, 2020 22:39:40 GMT -5
Not great.
Great potential !
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Post by GameTime on Jul 21, 2020 6:27:22 GMT -5
"So much to dislike".... ahhh....no. A couple of things for sure. Pocket awareness and ball security.Yeah these are.... really important. Along with Accuracy which Jones shows in abundance; you got your top 3 most important skill-sets for a QB.He does the review like Jones has been an NFL QB for 2 or 3 seasons already. He does a review of Jones based on.. every single snap he's had as a professional. What else should he evaluate his opinion on? or do we only look for positive reinforcement on rookies?Does he eve mention the shitty oline play? Yes. He also shows a stat that shows DJ is actually gets a lot worse when he has more time to throw. Did you catch that? Interesting tidbit. Ok video to watch the plays. That part was the best part. The dude talks out his ass many times too. For instance he comments on a throw that Jones should have thrown deep for his receiver to "meet" the ball but ignores the fact that the Safety floating over would have broken up the play. Reference the play in the video and lets go take a look before we talk about generalities. You could be right, lets see. Jones needs work....no shit. He has 13 games under his belt. Yes, he does need work. The 13 game have shown that. I didnt like the way he performed the review .He went back and forth with doing it proper like he was a rookie and then busting him for making mistakes that rookies make but vets do to. Besides that whats your problem?
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 21, 2020 9:27:34 GMT -5
What are you referring to when you're saying its hard to evaluate the source? other than claiming some sort of bias. This is as objective of a take on Jones as i've seen. There are quite a few pundits who hated the pick that have done posts like this. They admit they were impressed, but spend most of the time pointing out mistakes. Wow, a rookie QB behind a bad ol made mistakes? Made bad decisions? Astonishing! He also set multiple records as a rookie. I specifically said he was right on most of what he said, but the fact he spent most of the video pointing out the bad instead of the good shows bias, IMO. When you over analyze everything tiny and un important things become paramount.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 11:09:32 GMT -5
Tom Brady Peyton Manning Daniel Jones Dan Marino Joe Montana John Elway Jim Kelly Johnny Unitas Dwayne Haskins Drew Brees
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Post by thetruth on Jul 21, 2020 11:37:55 GMT -5
I didnt like the way he performed the review .He went back and forth with doing it proper like he was a rookie and then busting him for making mistakes that rookies make but vets do to. Besides that whats your problem? He complimented Jones a bunch, he also criticized him. As a fan base we should be soaking up knowledge like this as much as possible as its hard to come by. Though, it needs to be without bias and I feel this dudes material is great, i've learned a lot from him No problem. Should I have a problem?
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 21, 2020 11:56:10 GMT -5
I didnt like the way he performed the review .He went back and forth with doing it proper like he was a rookie and then busting him for making mistakes that rookies make but vets do to. Besides that whats your problem? He complimented Jones a bunch, he also criticized him. As a fan base we should be soaking up knowledge like this as much as possible as its hard to come by. Though, it needs to be without bias and I feel this dudes material is great, i've learned a lot from him No problem. Should I have a problem? Do you really think this analysis is hard to come by? Don't get me wrong, it's fine but I didn't hear anything revelatory nor uncovered by most of these YT and other source editorialists.
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Post by thetruth on Jul 21, 2020 12:24:22 GMT -5
He complimented Jones a bunch, he also criticized him. As a fan base we should be soaking up knowledge like this as much as possible as its hard to come by. Though, it needs to be without bias and I feel this dudes material is great, i've learned a lot from him No problem. Should I have a problem? Do you really think this analysis is hard to come by? Don't get me wrong, it's fine but I didn't hear anything revelatory nor uncovered by most of these YT and other source editorialists. Well you clearly know more than me, then. I for one didn't realize how poorly Daniels pocket awareness/feel was in the pocket. Sure, turnovers/fumbling is the issue often discussed with the Jordan Ranaan's or the Ed Valentines of the world. However, i learned that Jones issues boil down moreso to awareness in the pocket rather than Daniel just being careless. So then gives me hope that we have our guy. Now, can he become more aware and continue making special throws? lets see.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 21, 2020 12:29:33 GMT -5
I didnt like the way he performed the review .He went back and forth with doing it proper like he was a rookie and then busting him for making mistakes that rookies make but vets do to. Besides that whats your problem? He complimented Jones a bunch, he also criticized him. As a fan base we should be soaking up knowledge like this as much as possible as its hard to come by. Though, it needs to be without bias and I feel this dudes material is great, i've learned a lot from him No problem. Should I have a problem? To me it seemed like there was some bias and as a fan maybe I more in tune to that. Overall I liked the videos but though this style and delivery of the information was off. I guess its all about perception
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Post by thetruth on Jul 21, 2020 12:40:02 GMT -5
He complimented Jones a bunch, he also criticized him. As a fan base we should be soaking up knowledge like this as much as possible as its hard to come by. Though, it needs to be without bias and I feel this dudes material is great, i've learned a lot from him No problem. Should I have a problem? To me it seemed like there was some bias and as a fan maybe I more in tune to that. Overall I liked the videos but though this style and delivery of the information was off. I guess its all about perception We all want the best. I hope we hit on Jones and theres a lot to like. Now, we can see if he cleans up his pocket awareness and improves in his play-action. The Giants hiring Garrett is an EXCELLENT move in Jones development. Lets see
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Post by Martin on Jul 21, 2020 14:14:30 GMT -5
Didn't Jones just play 1 year? Great? Don't you need more body of work to evaluate?? Maybe it's just me. If it is I apologize to the members of the board in advance.
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Post by thetruth on Jul 21, 2020 14:34:17 GMT -5
Didn't Jones just play 1 year? Great? Don't you need more body of work to evaluate?? Maybe it's just me. If it is I apologize to the members of the board in advance. 816 snaps is not a good sample size? ok. How many snaps are needed before we can start looking at if a player is playing well, or not? I was looking forward to evaluating Andrew Thomas next year but if your theory holds true. We shouldn't do that until 2023? 2024? when? You can evaluate a player and not make conclusions on a player, yes?
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Post by GameTime on Jul 21, 2020 16:07:31 GMT -5
Didn't Jones just play 1 year? Great? Don't you need more body of work to evaluate?? Maybe it's just me. If it is I apologize to the members of the board in advance. not unless you are evaluating a rookie... I am not a big fan of this particular reviewers input but I do like all the videos
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 21, 2020 17:38:46 GMT -5
Do you really think this analysis is hard to come by? Don't get me wrong, it's fine but I didn't hear anything revelatory nor uncovered by most of these YT and other source editorialists. Well you clearly know more than me, then. I for one didn't realize how poorly Daniels pocket awareness/feel was in the pocket. Sure, turnovers/fumbling is the issue often discussed with the Jordan Ranaan's or the Ed Valentines of the world. However, i learned that Jones issues boil down moreso to awareness in the pocket rather than Daniel just being careless. So then gives me hope that we have our guy. Now, can he become more aware and continue making special throws? lets see. lol, good one. I know you watch the games.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Jul 21, 2020 17:59:49 GMT -5
This is awesome:
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Post by Providence on Jul 22, 2020 12:28:44 GMT -5
Is Jones a great QB? No Could Jones be a great QB? Yes Exactly. Anyone who describes Jones as great after less than one solid, albeit turnover-filled season, is wearing some seriously rose-colored glasses.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 10:56:34 GMT -5
Even this year when QB's usually make the jump, this is the COVID Year. Jones has a new HC and OC. He has to relearn an entirely new offense. Hopefully he will continue to gel with Slayton. Lets face it, He has some weapons this year. An improved offensive line, a healthy and unsuspended receiving corps AND one of the most powerful tools for a young QB...........A beast RB that he can always hand it off or check down to. Also JG likes to run a 2 TE set that if need to can sit back and block Every team is going through the mess that COVID has brought, but I really feel Jones will fix his fumbling problem (Mostly due to holding the ball too long) and will have a BREAK OUT Year Jones also has an advantage over Eli by using his legs to buy time. He is also a threat to take off and run which defenses now have to account for, which obviously wasn't the case when Eli was back there Wasn't that the case last year? Why would that be a disadvantage in his second year after he set rookie records and earned the Nickname Danny Dimes? It’s still not ideal and has to go in the not beneficial to development category I think
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Post by jaymas on Jul 23, 2020 12:44:13 GMT -5
None of what I'm about to say is about this analysis
12 games. That's all DJ has played.
I'm far more interested in the things he did well, honestly, over 12 games. Because he did things rookies flat out don't do or don't do commonly. Rookies turn the ball over, rookies make stupid throws (vets do too), rookies often don't have great pocket awareness because they haven't hit their slow down moments yet.
Rookies don't often: Have four games with four TDs, one of those with 5. Rookies don't often put a team on their back in their first start to lead a comeback victory. Rookies don't often make some of the incredible throws he did .
I also believe all his issues should naturally get better with more experience or are correctable through good coaching and work.
Maybe he regresses terribly and busts (I dobut it, kid is a worker), maybe he stays turnover prone but develops into an Eli, so the on streaks are amazing and he's big in special moments. Maybe he builds off of his uncommonly good rookie year and becomes of of the best in the NFL.
All I know is, I'm excited.
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Post by jaymas on Jul 23, 2020 13:48:19 GMT -5
I think the assumption new coaching is automatically a short-term negative is premature.
It's still football and he still has 3/4 of a season under his belt.
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 23, 2020 15:15:32 GMT -5
I think the assumption new coaching is automatically a short-term negative is premature.It's still football and he still has 3/4 of a season under his belt. I have never gotten that, particularly in a case like this. A year ago, Jones started to learn a system...is the idea that he maxed out his ability to learn at that time...like the memory is just full. Or is it that he has that system so ingrained in his playing DNA that he ...I don't even want to finish it - too stupid.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 15:36:27 GMT -5
I think the assumption new coaching is automatically a short-term negative is premature.It's still football and he still has 3/4 of a season under his belt. I have never gotten that, particularly in a case like this. A year ago, Jones started to learn a system...is the idea that he maxed out his ability to learn at that time...like the memory is just full. Or is it that he has that system so ingrained in his playing DNA that he ...I don't even want to finish it - too stupid. That's a bizarre way to view it. I see it that Jones now will have a new system to master and be able to process at lightening speed so the advances he made playing last season will matter less in a new system. The "experts" are even saying that this no off season will even slow down Brady's ability to transition quickly in TB..
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 23, 2020 15:40:33 GMT -5
I have never gotten that, particularly in a case like this. A year ago, Jones started to learn a system...is the idea that he maxed out his ability to learn at that time...like the memory is just full. Or is it that he has that system so ingrained in his playing DNA that he ...I don't even want to finish it - too stupid. That's a bizarre way to view it. I see it that Jones now will have a new system to master and be able to process at lightening speed so the advances he made playing last season will matter less in a new system. The "experts" are even saying that this no off season will even slow down Brady's ability to transition quickly in TB.. I'm not saying it wont have any effect, I'm saying let's not get ridiculous with the degree this effects Jones.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 15:43:11 GMT -5
That's a bizarre way to view it. I see it that Jones now will have a new system to master and be able to process at lightening speed so the advances he made playing last season will matter less in a new system. The "experts" are even saying that this no off season will even slow down Brady's ability to transition quickly in TB.. I'm not saying it wont have any effect, I'm saying let's not get ridiculous with the degree this effects Jones. Sorry I didn't see you say that..
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mj312
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Post by mj312 on Jul 25, 2020 16:15:41 GMT -5
Biggest thing I noted was how often they kept him in the pocket. And I didnt understand the rationalization as to why - if your QB is getting pressured where he is losing 18 fumbles, you would think more PA would help, no? I constantly wondered last year why they kept him in the pocket so much, still dont understand why. Also, he called Engram, clearly lined up as a TE, a WR. Otherwise I thought is was a good vid. I think they handcuffed him on the option to take off also. we see vs tampa he scores two rushing tds, and not so much after that. They may have told him to stay in the pocket. let the kid do his thing., there will be fumbles and mistakes, but take the handcuffs off, hopefully this new staff with Garrett. roll out , get him moving if we still dont have a Center. The thing with Jones is can he stay healthy ? In his first year of playing he already missed 2-3 games with an injury and he wasn't even the starter all year .. I like that jones has the ability to run however we need him on the field . Say what you want about Eli, but for 16 years we always knew who the QB was on every Sunday .. if Jones doesnt learn how to slide and not take hits I'd rather him not run .
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Jul 26, 2020 11:44:30 GMT -5
I think they handcuffed him on the option to take off also. we see vs tampa he scores two rushing tds, and not so much after that. They may have told him to stay in the pocket. let the kid do his thing., there will be fumbles and mistakes, but take the handcuffs off, hopefully this new staff with Garrett. roll out , get him moving if we still dont have a Center. The thing with Jones is can he stay healthy ? In his first year of playing he already missed 2-3 games with an injury and he wasn't even the starter all year .. I like that jones has the ability to run however we need him on the field . Say what you want about Eli, but for 16 years we always knew who the QB was on every Sunday .. if Jones doesnt learn how to slide and not take hits I'd rather him not run . i think he could have played if he had to, prob miss one game. You cant think like that though. Any pocket passer can get his leg snapped also.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 28, 2020 7:54:00 GMT -5
The thing with Jones is can he stay healthy ? In his first year of playing he already missed 2-3 games with an injury and he wasn't even the starter all year .. I like that jones has the ability to run however we need him on the field . Say what you want about Eli, but for 16 years we always knew who the QB was on every Sunday .. if Jones doesnt learn how to slide and not take hits I'd rather him not run . i think he could have played if he had to, prob miss one game. You cant think like that though. Any pocket passer can get his leg snapped also. I personally like saving it when needed to be honest.. Like the Wilson example He doesn't run till the last possession. Ball on 25 with 2 minutes to go 1 timeout down 4 1st and 10 sending 3 verticals and Engram is the checkdown,safeties are way back,Jones signals to Engram to watch for him as if he sees a crease he is going to keep it,which he does once the pass rush commits beyond point of no return Engram takes out the spy..Jones has lulled the defense to sleep with not showing how fast he is against them yet. 30 yards downfield 1st and 10 at opponents 43,even if down midfield plenty of time to get to the LOS and call another play. Or the aforementioned 3rd and 1 killshot qb keeper on play action..
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Post by Jomo on Jul 28, 2020 9:22:48 GMT -5
i think he could have played if he had to, prob miss one game. You cant think like that though. Any pocket passer can get his leg snapped also. I personally like saving it when needed to be honest.. Like the Wilson example He doesn't run till the last possession. Ball on 25 with 2 minutes to go 1 timeout down 4 1st and 10 sending 3 verticals and Engram is the checkdown,safeties are way back,Jones signals to Engram to watch for him as if he sees a crease he is going to keep it,which he does once the pass rush commits beyond point of no return Engram takes out the spy..Jones has lulled the defense to sleep with not showing how fast he is against them yet. 30 yards downfield 1st and 10 at opponents 43,even if down midfield plenty of time to get to the LOS and call another play. Or the aforementioned 3rd and 1 killshot qb keeper on play action.. Yours is the right model in today's NFL. The mobile QB can be a potent weapon at critical moments. A QB who carries the ball 12 times a game is going to be a former NFL QB very quickly.
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