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Post by McCherry on Sept 20, 2020 19:08:32 GMT -5
You and I went back and forth on this all offseason. I'll admit that so far nobody has been more right around here than you. Unfortunately I also didn't see Barkley happening... I'm still bullish on the direction of this team and this includes Jones. They all hit their stride somewhat around week 8 ish..i hope they can figure out another weapon...didn't watch but looking at the stats looks like this was the first game Slayton was heavily gameplanned for and nobody really stepped up opposite him..especially after Shepard went down Well nobody could've predicted that, but it's always a worry with RB's. I honestly don't think it's the end of the world whatsoever. With the progression the OL and defense took today, I think it happens sooner than 8 weeks. Slayton bombed today, I'm making no excuses for him. I saw him in alot of single coverage today. But the kid has played over his head for so long he was due for a game like this. I wouldn't even be surprised if he were less than 100% today.
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Post by Delicreep on Sept 20, 2020 19:08:52 GMT -5
Jones is just starting his 2nd year in the NFL with no real offseason learning a new system with all new coaches???? He came out of Duke, not A national championship program. He will improve and mature. So many great QBs in the NFL looked like crap their first 2-3 years. Give the guy a freakin break! Did any of you guys reall think this team was going to light it up this year? C'mon...he's played 15 games already...if he hasn't removed all the flaws from his game at this point, then he never will. That's just a fact.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 19:09:52 GMT -5
You and I went back and forth on this all offseason. I'll admit that so far nobody has been more right around here than you. Unfortunately I also didn't see Barkley happening... I'm still bullish on the direction of this team and this includes Jones. They all hit their stride somewhat around week 8 ish..i hope they can figure out another weapon...didn't watch but looking at the stats looks like this was the first game Slayton was heavily gameplanned for and nobody really stepped up opposite him..especially after Shepard went down But, we're ALL expecting Jones to improve on the turnovers to keep the direction at the bullish zone...that has not been the case these first two games, and if that continues, he is not going to be the QB of the future.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 20, 2020 19:39:20 GMT -5
Watch Herbert or Burrow. Those guys are so far ahead of Jones already. I am not on board with that view point at all. man that guy’s lawn looks sooo good!
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 20, 2020 19:42:19 GMT -5
Watch Herbert or Burrow. Those guys are so far ahead of Jones already. You've clearly lost your mind. I don’t think so, I just think it’s simple fan conflation. The Chargers and Bengals may be better than the Giants, ipso facto they’re better than Jones.
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Post by McCherry on Sept 20, 2020 19:48:21 GMT -5
Unfortunately I also didn't see Barkley happening... I'm still bullish on the direction of this team and this includes Jones. They all hit their stride somewhat around week 8 ish..i hope they can figure out another weapon...didn't watch but looking at the stats looks like this was the first game Slayton was heavily gameplanned for and nobody really stepped up opposite him..especially after Shepard went down But, we're ALL expecting Jones to improve on the turnovers to keep the direction at the bullish zone...that has not been the case these first two games, and if that continues, he is not going to be the QB of the future. How many years did it take Eli to convince everyone he was a franchise QB?
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 20, 2020 19:50:23 GMT -5
But, we're ALL expecting Jones to improve on the turnovers to keep the direction at the bullish zone...that has not been the case these first two games, and if that continues, he is not going to be the QB of the future. How many years did it take Eli to convince everyone he was a franchise QB? Define “everyone” lol
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Post by hadenough on Sept 20, 2020 20:16:37 GMT -5
Turnovers...call him Danny Liability. He’s going to keep fumbling and keep getting his arm hit in the pocket cause he can’t sense anything and let’s the rush get inches from him. That’s a very bad trait.
D.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 20, 2020 20:21:27 GMT -5
Bad start, much better finish. It begins today. Missed all of it Unfortunately its Jones having to carry a team on his back with sub par weapons to do so witb and behind a green O line as a whole.. Will say a lot if he can keep the team completive I will fill you in the OL the first 2 series wasn't good but the settled in and did some good work before Barkely went down he had a negative carry then a 16 17 yarder and 5 yards then on the carry he got hurt it was 4 or 5 yard carry think they were getting it going to bad for the injury. By the second QT the pass pro settled down and by mid way through the third Jones had good time to throw.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 20, 2020 20:25:53 GMT -5
You and I went back and forth on this all offseason. I'll admit that so far nobody has been more right around here than you. Unfortunately I also didn't see Barkley happening... I'm still bullish on the direction of this team and this includes Jones. They all hit their stride somewhat around week 8 ish..i hope they can figure out another weapon...didn't watch but looking at the stats looks like this was the first game Slayton was heavily gameplanned for and nobody really stepped up opposite him..especially after Shepard went down Slayton was ok he had a big drop on a big 3rd down on the hands in stride they ended up having to kick afield goal. The guy who picked up the slack was Engram second half he started making plays and Tate was pretty slippery as usual
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 20, 2020 20:34:15 GMT -5
Unfortunately I also didn't see Barkley happening... I'm still bullish on the direction of this team and this includes Jones. They all hit their stride somewhat around week 8 ish..i hope they can figure out another weapon...didn't watch but looking at the stats looks like this was the first game Slayton was heavily gameplanned for and nobody really stepped up opposite him..especially after Shepard went down But, we're ALL expecting Jones to improve on the turnovers to keep the direction at the bullish zone...that has not been the case these first two games, and if that continues, he is not going to be the QB of the future. I don't see Judge at years end not wanting an upgrade if he has big turn over season and the Giants are picking top 3. Lets hope the kid settles down learns this offense and stops turning it over.
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Post by DandyDon on Sept 20, 2020 20:43:24 GMT -5
He's got to stop turning in over. But I think this was his 16th NFL game?
He's not mahomes, but he's also playing on a much worse team.
I still like a lot about him. Can we give him more than 16 games before we judge him?
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Post by jaymas on Sept 20, 2020 20:57:02 GMT -5
Talk to me when one or both those guys have 4, 4 TD games their rookie years. Burrow and Herbert both look good so far. People don't need to knock on Jones to validate their opinion of those two being better or vice versa. I like both of those guys. Had we not taken Jones, I would have been all about Herbert this year and if he came out last year would have been my #1. Think the guy is gonna be very good. And no, they sure don't need to do that...but it's undoubtedly going to happen and probably with lots of hyperbole.
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Post by jaymas on Sept 20, 2020 20:57:50 GMT -5
Probably a C. What is really starting to concern me is I am starting to expect Jones to turn the ball over...like it's an inevitability.... He has the talent, but the main reason I didn't like him coming out of college was because of the turnovers. He has to clean it up. He pump fakes at times when it looks to me like he doesn't need to, holds the ball too long at times and seems to lose awareness in the pocket. He's got a long way to go...sorry that is how I see it. Well, he's only made 14 starts and outside of Patrick Machines,that's not usually enough to be setting the world on fire yet.
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Post by lt56 on Sept 20, 2020 21:19:08 GMT -5
Need more Weapon, also need more Speed around him
I like Slayton but nobody actually scares Opposing Defenses and it is nobody that teams Gameplan for especially without Barkley
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 20, 2020 21:30:20 GMT -5
Our WR corps is WAY below average. Daniel Jones doesn't have guys to throw to except Slayton....who is still young and learning to play WR in the NFL.
Tate, Shepard and the rest of the cast offs are crap. The only QB who has is worse is Darnold.
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Post by McCherry on Sept 20, 2020 21:48:50 GMT -5
Our WR corps is WAY below average. Daniel Jones doesn't have guys to throw to except Slayton....who is still young and learning to play WR in the NFL. Tate, Shepard and the rest of the cast offs are crap. The only QB who has is worse is Darnold. Tate and Engram carried the offense today. Not Slayton, who was a complete no show.
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Sept 20, 2020 21:49:53 GMT -5
Its not his fault. He doesnt have an oline and his reciever ran the wrong route on that int.
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Post by nygabriel on Sept 20, 2020 21:58:22 GMT -5
Daniel Jones is just not good enough. Nice kid but not a 1st round talent and a turnover machine to boot. A reach by Gettleman
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 20, 2020 22:21:54 GMT -5
Our WR corps is WAY below average. Daniel Jones doesn't have guys to throw to except Slayton....who is still young and learning to play WR in the NFL. Tate, Shepard and the rest of the cast offs are crap. The only QB who has is worse is Darnold. Tate and Engram carried the offense today. Not Slayton, who was a complete no show. With his 5 catches for less than 50 yards and no TD's? Really.
Last week you pumped up the team by saying we didn't get blown out at home. Now you claim Golden Tate helped "carry" the offense with an abysmal performance.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 20, 2020 22:47:19 GMT -5
Tate and Engram carried the offense today. Not Slayton, who was a complete no show. With his 5 catches for less than 50 yards and no TD's? Really.
Last week you pumped up the team by saying we didn't get blown out at home. Now you claim Golden Tate helped "carry" the offense with an abysmal performance.
Unfortunately I agree with you here and I Unfortunately have been proven right here about our recievers as well My prayers were answered with Slayton..maybe Ratley once he gets more comfortable with this offense can contribute down the line People want to stick their heads in tbe sand ever wanting to add major upgrades here but both Tate and probably Sheppard might he cap casualties next year
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 20, 2020 22:54:45 GMT -5
With his 5 catches for less than 50 yards and no TD's? Really.
Last week you pumped up the team by saying we didn't get blown out at home. Now you claim Golden Tate helped "carry" the offense with an abysmal performance.
Unfortunately I agree with you here and I Unfortunately have been proven right here about our recievers as well My prayers were answered with Slayton..maybe Ratley once he gets more comfortable with this offense can contribute down the line People want to stick their heads in tbe sand ever wanting to add major upgrades here but both Tate and probably Sheppard might he cap casualties next year Tate is so ordinary. There is literally nothing special about him. Shepard has definitely lost his luster. Man our weapons are bad. And now after our third draft with high picks. So frustrated right now. We're as bad as we were in 2017.
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Sept 21, 2020 0:42:35 GMT -5
Jones is just starting his 2nd year in the NFL with no real offseason learning a new system with all new coaches???? He came out of Duke, not A national championship program. He will improve and mature. So many great QBs in the NFL looked like crap their first 2-3 years. Give the guy a freakin break! Did any of you guys reall think this team was going to light it up this year? C'mon...he's played 15 games already...if he hasn't removed all the flaws from his game at this point, then he never will. That's just a fact. didnt it take Eli around 30 starts to get going?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 3:04:16 GMT -5
But, we're ALL expecting Jones to improve on the turnovers to keep the direction at the bullish zone...that has not been the case these first two games, and if that continues, he is not going to be the QB of the future. How many years did it take Eli to convince everyone he was a franchise QB? Why suggest he is Eli? Totally different players and yet you use Eli as the sample size? If the Giants are picking 1, they are taking Trevor Lawrence... They won't be...then keep building the OL, and get some pass rush talent vs these DT run stoppers...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 3:18:18 GMT -5
But, we're ALL expecting Jones to improve on the turnovers to keep the direction at the bullish zone...that has not been the case these first two games, and if that continues, he is not going to be the QB of the future. I don't see Judge at years end not wanting an upgrade if he has big turn over season and the Giants are picking top 3. Lets hope the kid settles down learns this offense and stops turning it over. I understand his arm limitations, and realize we have a game manager type QB...however, a good game manager QB does not turn the ball over..that is what makes them attractive to head coaches. If he continues to do this, and we HAVE the 1 pick with Trevor Lawrence, the best prospect since Luck...even more talented...you don't trade the pick. Imagine the Giants Legacy?...keep Barkley, trade Lawrence. Not going to happen....if we are picking 1, DG is gone, and Lawrence is the pick.
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Post by Delicreep on Sept 21, 2020 5:37:43 GMT -5
C'mon...he's played 15 games already...if he hasn't removed all the flaws from his game at this point, then he never will. That's just a fact. didnt it take Eli around 30 starts to get going? Might be closer to 40 for Eli.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Sept 21, 2020 6:09:40 GMT -5
Probably a C. What is really starting to concern me is I am starting to expect Jones to turn the ball over...like it's an inevitability.... He has the talent, but the main reason I didn't like him coming out of college was because of the turnovers. He has to clean it up. He pump fakes at times when it looks to me like he doesn't need to, holds the ball too long at times and seems to lose awareness in the pocket. He's got a long way to go...sorry that is how I see it. Well, he's only made 14 starts and outside of Patrick Machines,that's not usually enough to be setting the world on fire yet. Hey, I'm not saying the guy is a bust, I'm saying he has talent, but he has a long way to go. But those of you who want to pretend he doesn't have issues are not being realistic. Are they correctable issues? Yes, but do all quarterbacks correct these type of issues? No, they don't. Look at a Ryan Fitzpatrick. Harvard grad, obviously a smart guy. Talented, can make all the throws. But he has never been able to avoid the costly turnovers and that is what keeps him from becoming a real franchise QB. I am not saying Jones is Fitzmagic, lol, but he has things he has to clean up, or as I thought Aris said, he won't reach his potential and be a franchise QB.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Sept 21, 2020 6:49:46 GMT -5
So, some think that Jones can magically fix something thats plagued him throughout his career because he will "obviously get better".
Processing time is very unlikely to get better. His ball security can get better, that physical. But awareness and processing time is something that is very hard to "make better" for someone who doesnt have it. That was the knock on him at Duke. Also the arm strength thing, but I think thats been put to bed. Arm strength is also something that you can work on to make better as you age.
I'll admit Ive flip flopped on DJ a few times. I wanted nothing to do with him in the draft. I watched his Duke tapes over and over and could not convince myself he would be a great QB. Then I went to TB to watch his first career start. I was gitty. Maybe I was wrong? The kid seems to have more than I thought. That said, in that game, the Bucs dropped 2 easy INTs and did make him fumble 2x. As the year went on, I noticed the same trend I saw in college with him. Bad ball security and a long processing time, no awareness of the pass rush coming full steam at him. Despite him being a mobile QB, he doesnt use it to his advantage. His turnovers are starting to worry me that its a trait he wont get rid of. And the awareness factor is something you either have or dont IMO. His slow processing time is the biggest red flag for me.
If Trevor Lawrence is in our reach, we no doubt have to take him. The right QB can fix a bad team quickly.
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Post by hadenough on Sept 21, 2020 7:29:59 GMT -5
So, some think that Jones can magically fix something thats plagued him throughout his career because he will "obviously get better". Processing time is very unlikely to get better. His ball security can get better, that physical. But awareness and processing time is something that is very hard to "make better" for someone who doesnt have it. That was the knock on him at Duke. Also the arm strength thing, but I think thats been put to bed. Arm strength is also something that you can work on to make better as you age. I'll admit Ive flip flopped on DJ a few times. I wanted nothing to do with him in the draft. I watched his Duke tapes over and over and could not convince myself he would be a great QB. Then I went to TB to watch his first career start. I was gitty. Maybe I was wrong? The kid seems to have more than I thought. That said, in that game, the Bucs dropped 2 easy INTs and did make him fumble 2x. As the year went on, I noticed the same trend I saw in college with him. Bad ball security and a long processing time, no awareness of the pass rush coming full steam at him. Despite him being a mobile QB, he doesnt use it to his advantage. His turnovers are starting to worry me that its a trait he wont get rid of. And the awareness factor is something you either have or dont IMO. His slow processing time is the biggest red flag for me. If Trevor Lawrence is in our reach, we no doubt have to take him. The right QB can fix a bad team quickly. Unfortunately, you're correct.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Sept 21, 2020 7:58:25 GMT -5
So, some think that Jones can magically fix something thats plagued him throughout his career because he will "obviously get better". Processing time is very unlikely to get better. His ball security can get better, that physical. But awareness and processing time is something that is very hard to "make better" for someone who doesnt have it. That was the knock on him at Duke. Also the arm strength thing, but I think thats been put to bed. Arm strength is also something that you can work on to make better as you age. I'll admit Ive flip flopped on DJ a few times. I wanted nothing to do with him in the draft. I watched his Duke tapes over and over and could not convince myself he would be a great QB. Then I went to TB to watch his first career start. I was gitty. Maybe I was wrong? The kid seems to have more than I thought. That said, in that game, the Bucs dropped 2 easy INTs and did make him fumble 2x. As the year went on, I noticed the same trend I saw in college with him. Bad ball security and a long processing time, no awareness of the pass rush coming full steam at him. Despite him being a mobile QB, he doesnt use it to his advantage. His turnovers are starting to worry me that its a trait he wont get rid of. And the awareness factor is something you either have or dont IMO. His slow processing time is the biggest red flag for me. If Trevor Lawrence is in our reach, we no doubt have to take him. The right QB can fix a bad team quickly. It's a tough call and when you criticize a QB who is only in their second season, first as a full time starter from the jump, you open yourself up for people who think it's a hot take and you are over reacting. I don't mean you personally, just in general. I believe that some QB's come into the NFL more ready to play, I think that is obvious. I believe some QB's have a tendency to turn the ball over,more than others. I think that is an accurate statement. I think some QB's improve over time and get better with experience and coaching. I also think that some just don't, no matter how great they were in college. Their game just doesn't translate to the NFL, their processing ability doesn't get better, their pocket awareness, their propensity to turn the ball over.. I'm not saying DJ is that guy at all. I know he has only played 15 games or whatever it is. New coach, new OC, new system, no OTA's, no preseason...I get it. He doesn't have the greatest weapons on offense, ok fine. I'm willing to give him time and see how this season plays out, and by no means am I saying he is a bust, and I don't think you are either. I'm just saying he needs to control the turnovers and he has to know what is going on around him while in the pocket. What scares me a bit about that is I think you either have that or you don't. That awareness of what is around you. Sort of like a RB either has good vision to spot the seams and holes developing, or they don't. I don't think it's a learned thing. Hope I am wrong. The guy has talent, I hope he can take it to the next level.
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