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Post by GameTime on Oct 4, 2020 23:20:16 GMT -5
only slayton i see runs a nice route and can get separation. engram dogs it, golden taint is a mouse. Jones plays a roll in the issues because he locks completely on one WR and he holds on to the ball to long. He is not instinctual or quick thinking. He is not a franchise QB. These this can not be coached out of him. Granted the Cupboard is bare but Jones is not the answer either. go back and check out a few of those snaps where he hangs on to the ball too long. There is literally no one open. Not even close. Jones has his issues for sure but the WR/TEs are lame at getting open.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 4, 2020 23:27:27 GMT -5
Jones plays a roll in the issues because he locks completely on one WR and he holds on to the ball to long. He is not instinctual or quick thinking. He is not a franchise QB. These this can not be coached out of him. Granted the Cupboard is bare but Jones is not the answer either. go back and check out a few of those snaps where he hangs on to the ball too long. There is literally no one open. Not even close. Jones has his issues for sure but the WR/TEs are lame at getting open. Once we lost Barkley we have become very easy to defend Take away Slayton Play press on everyone else because there is no fear of any of tbe other guys busting deep They need to feature Smith nore because Engram is becoming irrelevant
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 4, 2020 23:33:18 GMT -5
WRs and TEs stink. Jones keeps giving it away despite playing tough. The kid is his own worst enemy. You were watching Eli's first year, no?
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Post by GameTime on Oct 4, 2020 23:36:56 GMT -5
WRs and TEs stink. Jones keeps giving it away despite playing tough. The kid is his own worst enemy. You were watching Eli's first year, no? yeah.... Jones still giving the ball up twice a game on average. He is digging a deeper hole with every turnover.
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Post by giantsrock on Oct 4, 2020 23:46:11 GMT -5
There's an old saying that goes "Be careful what you ask for because you might just get it". The scapegoating of Beckham was lame then and even more pathetic in hindsight. You keep talent like that, especially in their prime. The Giants have not replaced that talent or production. Look at us now. We are 0-4, grasping for moral victories on a weekly basis, and are bragging about at least not being the Jets. Lol What has Beckham done since leaveing here, besides his game today? Every player has a good game once in a while. He has done NOTHING. He is a shell of himself and to top it all off he still hasn't learned to keep his big mouth shut and play football. He is not a superstar anymore. HMMM I wonder why? Not saying Eli had anything to do with his stardom, but, every receiver that has left the NY Giants has failed badly. Every one, Hmm, Thats interesting because Eli is/was such a bad QB. There is no way Eli made his receivers look much better than they actually were? Hell Eli was keeping them from prospering and achieving all they could have been, wasn't he? At least that is what some on this message board have been saying for years. This is really confusing to me, can one of you guys that knows more than I the FO please elaborate on this for me? I'm really confused? You do realize beckham gained over 1000 yards last year, right?
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 4, 2020 23:50:27 GMT -5
You were watching Eli's first year, no? yeah.... Jones still giving the ball up twice a game on average. He is digging a deeper hole with every turnover. So you liked Eli's first 16 games over DJ's?
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yoho
Special Teams
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Post by yoho on Oct 5, 2020 0:06:05 GMT -5
Jones seems more like a rookie this year than last. Receiver play isn't helping. I think the system may have a lot to do with it. Jones and Shurmur seemed to really hit it off but our brilliant ownership thought needed to change that. Looked like Garrett started to add more Shurmur to the playbook this week with some success...we move the ball when Jones uses his legs. i agree he misses shumurs offense and especially in the red zone. maybe they could have kept pat as the OC. and got garrett to HC? idk., but he certainly misses it. It's a new system this year. Last year he had a full preseason and didn't start until game 4 or so.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 5, 2020 0:56:53 GMT -5
There's an old saying that goes "Be careful what you ask for because you might just get it". The scapegoating of Beckham was lame then and even more pathetic in hindsight. You keep talent like that, especially in their prime. The Giants have not replaced that talent or production. Look at us now. We are 0-4, grasping for moral victories on a weekly basis, and are bragging about at least not being the Jets. Lol Don’t forget we got basically nothing for a WR that was at the top of his game. A first round pick and Peppers? Gettleman doesn’t value WR’s. Odell and Steve Smith gone. That's the market. I'm OK with the Giants trading Beckham and Vernon and the blue they got back. They did fine on that trade so far. I also don't forgive them for not getting a real #1 WR to replace him. You can't replace that kind of talent with two or three journeymen, it's not moneyball, ffs. Almost apropos of that, I'm not a buyer of the Beckham vs manning thing. I think those guys are probably personally cool with each other and the idea that one must suffer so the other can be celebrated is stupid. I've said before that I believe that relationship was more mutually beneficial than is generally reported and I stand by that. That's not to say that if Beckham gets into a great offensive situation he won't surpass numbers he did with the Giants, he might. But he had a good thing going with Manning and I don't believe it was all dump it off to me and I'll mae you look good, which is the media's take. I believe there was more going on and that Beckham benefited early on from a QB that could read coverage as well as any and adapt routes together in game to exploit things they saw. I also think Manning was a QB that had an inordinately optimistic sense of his teammates' ability to make a play. He threw balls up. Look at a reel of Beckham's first seasons of just his TDs..he's either got a lock in with Manning, hits a seam and is gone or it's a ball thrown to a spot where the entire plan is: Beckham beats the defender for the ball. And he friggin does, nearly every time. I hope he does well. He's great talent and I think he's misrepresented in the media a bit. To me peer judgment is important. The next guy to say a bad thing about Beckham as a teammate will be the first guy to say that. I gotta say I really enjoyed seeing Cleveland looking pretty good (for a while) and piling up points on those crappy cowboys.
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Post by GameTime on Oct 5, 2020 6:26:03 GMT -5
yeah.... Jones still giving the ball up twice a game on average. He is digging a deeper hole with every turnover. So you liked Eli's first 16 games over DJ's? what does Eli have to do with anything? I cant remember that far back. At least what my attitude was. Lets get on the same page here. I like Danial Jones. I think he has what it takes to be a very good NFL QB. I also think a QB cannot turn the damn ball over twice game every game. Thats twice in the red zone at super critical times.He could have easily ran for a first down there. This offense cant score TDs and he is part of this offense. The WR/TEs are lame for the most part as is the run game. Doesnt mean he needs to dish the ball off to the other team twice a game.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 7:57:24 GMT -5
Don’t forget we got basically nothing for a WR that was at the top of his game. A first round pick and Peppers? Gettleman doesn’t value WR’s. Odell and Steve Smith gone. That's the market. I'm OK with the Giants trading Beckham and Vernon and the blue they got back. They did fine on that trade so far. I also don't forgive them for not getting a real #1 WR to replace him. You can't replace that kind of talent with two or three journeymen, it's not moneyball, ffs. Almost apropos of that, I'm not a buyer of the Beckham vs manning thing. I think those guys are probably personally cool with each other and the idea that one must suffer so the other can be celebrated is stupid. I've said before that I believe that relationship was more mutually beneficial than is generally reported and I stand by that. That's not to say that if Beckham gets into a great offensive situation he won't surpass numbers he did with the Giants, he might. But he had a good thing going with Manning and I don't believe it was all dump it off to me and I'll mae you look good, which is the media's take. I believe there was more going on and that Beckham benefited early on from a QB that could read coverage as well as any and adapt routes together in game to exploit things they saw. I also think Manning was a QB that had an inordinately optimistic sense of his teammates' ability to make a play. He threw balls up. Look at a reel of Beckham's first seasons of just his TDs..he's either got a lock in with Manning, hits a seam and is gone or it's a ball thrown to a spot where the entire plan is: Beckham beats the defender for the ball. And he friggin does, nearly every time. I hope he does well. He's great talent and I think he's misrepresented in the media a bit. To me peer judgment is important. The next guy to say a bad thing about Beckham as a teammate will be the first guy to say that. I gotta say I really enjoyed seeing Cleveland looking pretty good (for a while) and piling up points on those crappy cowboys. Well said. Gettleman panicked and picked up Tate who is nothing but mediocre. The days of him getting RAC are far behind him. Now he catches the ball and looks to dive on the ground as fast as he can. I don’t think you can easily replace a WR with Odells talent very easily. The two rookies theater have impressed me so far are CeeDee Lamb and Brandon Aiyuk. They are first round picks though. We absolutely had to grab a tackle this year.
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Post by DJones19 on Oct 5, 2020 8:28:34 GMT -5
Jones seems more like a rookie this year than last. Receiver play isn't helping. I think the system may have a lot to do with it. Jones and Shurmur seemed to really hit it off but our brilliant ownership thought needed to change that. Looked like Garrett started to add more Shurmur to the playbook this week with some success...we move the ball when Jones uses his legs. You wanted to keep Shurmur? I tend to like coaches, I see I liked a post from January of this year stating, "I would have given pat another year just because of this honestly. He found our franchise QB and gets shown the door. That isn't the Giants way." I also thought Jones had a good rookie year and wanted to build on that. I liked the Garrett hire but not impressed with those results so far, hope he's able to turn it around. Ran the ball better last game at least. I think COVID during a coaching change had negative impact.
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 5, 2020 8:47:22 GMT -5
So you liked Eli's first 16 games over DJ's? what does Eli have to do with anything? I cant remember that far back. At least what my attitude was. Lets get on the same page here. I like Danial Jones. I think he has what it takes to be a very good NFL QB. I also think a QB cannot turn the damn ball over twice game every game. Thats twice in the red zone at super critical times.He could have easily ran for a first down there. This offense cant score TDs and he is part of this offense. The WR/TEs are lame for the most part as is the run game. Doesnt mean he needs to dish the ball off to the other team twice a game. I agree in general. He obviously has issues he needs to clean up. But this was his 16th game. And he turned it over one time.
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Post by GameTime on Oct 5, 2020 10:36:15 GMT -5
what does Eli have to do with anything? I cant remember that far back. At least what my attitude was. Lets get on the same page here. I like Danial Jones. I think he has what it takes to be a very good NFL QB. I also think a QB cannot turn the damn ball over twice game every game. Thats twice in the red zone at super critical times.He could have easily ran for a first down there. This offense cant score TDs and he is part of this offense. The WR/TEs are lame for the most part as is the run game. Doesnt mean he needs to dish the ball off to the other team twice a game. I agree in general. He obviously has issues he needs to clean up. But this was his 16th game. And he turned it over one time. yep...he did fumble but recovered
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 5, 2020 10:43:32 GMT -5
You wanted to keep Shurmur? I tend to like coaches, I see I liked a post from January of this year stating, "I would have given pat another year just because of this honestly. He found our franchise QB and gets shown the door. That isn't the Giants way." I also thought Jones had a good rookie year and wanted to build on that. I liked the Garrett hire but not impressed with those results so far, hope he's able to turn it around. Ran the ball better last game at least. I think COVID during a coaching change had negative impact. The instant gratification crowd will never understand this logic ....
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 5, 2020 10:46:29 GMT -5
I tend to like coaches, I see I liked a post from January of this year stating, "I would have given pat another year just because of this honestly. He found our franchise QB and gets shown the door. That isn't the Giants way." I also thought Jones had a good rookie year and wanted to build on that. I liked the Garrett hire but not impressed with those results so far, hope he's able to turn it around. Ran the ball better last game at least. I think COVID during a coaching change had negative impact. The instant gratification crowd will never understand this logic .... Could you please describe the characteristics of the "instant gratification crowd" in this circumstance?
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Post by GameTime on Oct 5, 2020 10:50:10 GMT -5
Jones does have responsibility and blame for the poor offense. If you are fan and thinks he doesn't then you need to rethink what you know about football.
He is a part of the problem and its all about the turnovers. The rest of his game is what you'd expect from a 17 game in QB with state of this offense.
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 5, 2020 10:55:06 GMT -5
Would help if the WRs stopped with the drops too...
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Post by McCherry on Oct 5, 2020 10:59:04 GMT -5
You wanted to keep Shurmur? I tend to like coaches, I see I liked a post from January of this year stating, "I would have given pat another year just because of this honestly. He found our franchise QB and gets shown the door. That isn't the Giants way." I also thought Jones had a good rookie year and wanted to build on that. I liked the Garrett hire but not impressed with those results so far, hope he's able to turn it around. Ran the ball better last game at least. I think COVID during a coaching change had negative impact. I'll say this, if Jones played like this his first 4 games last year, Shurmur wouldn't have last till November.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 10:59:19 GMT -5
as much as Jones was a step behind yesterday, in the pocket, throwing too late, its true man, his receivers were blanketed the whole game, and how many drops happened? ugh so sick of engram, he looks nothing like an nfl tight end to me, drops passes every game, is never open in the middle. he DID make a couple plays yesterday but nothing spectacular. tate dropped some catchable passes, then another kid from the practice squad.
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 5, 2020 11:19:02 GMT -5
as much as Jones was a step behind yesterday, in the pocket, throwing too late, its true man, his receivers were blanketed the whole game, and how many drops happened? ugh so sick of engram, he looks nothing like an nfl tight end to me, drops passes every game, is never open in the middle. he DID make a couple plays yesterday but nothing spectacular. tate dropped some catchable passes, then another kid from the practice squad. This is the time ee needs to step up. Mostly he isn't.
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mj312
Special Teams
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Post by mj312 on Oct 5, 2020 20:44:37 GMT -5
This offense is a joke that just lacks talent everywhere .. Jones is not a 6 pick and wasting a 4 pick on Thomas when the rest of the line can’t block is pointless .. we took a LT in 2015 in the first round and he stunk .. we payed Nate solder millions of dollars in free agency to replace him and he sucked .. so now we took Thomas And he’s not looking so great either .. we have been in the position to take legit game changers the last 2 years and we have nothing to show for it .. the offense is embarrassing and almost makes me wish for macadoo-doo back .. almost .. can’t wait for gettleman to go
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 5, 2020 20:53:17 GMT -5
This offense is a joke that just lacks talent everywhere .. Jones is not a 6 pick and wasting a 4 pick on Thomas when the rest of the line can’t block is pointless .. we took a LT in 2015 in the first round and he stunk .. we payed Nate solder millions of dollars in free agency to replace him and he sucked .. so now we took Thomas And he’s not looking so great either .. we have been in the position to take legit game changers the last 2 years and we have nothing to show for it .. the offense is embarrassing and almost makes me wish for macadoo-doo back .. almost .. can’t wait for gettleman to go Your boy Simmons has been a complete failure so far so please stop the narrative that O line was a bad pick Thomas at the very least is improving every week and plays a premium position on offense And if you paid attention Gates had a hell of a game...Donald was a non factor Meanwhile the defense has drastically improved without wasting it on a boom or bust high risk you wanted us to take
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 5, 2020 20:56:12 GMT -5
This offense is a joke that just lacks talent everywhere .. Jones is not a 6 pick and wasting a 4 pick on Thomas when the rest of the line can’t block is pointless .. we took a LT in 2015 in the first round and he stunk .. we payed Nate solder millions of dollars in free agency to replace him and he sucked .. so now we took Thomas And he’s not looking so great either .. we have been in the position to take legit game changers the last 2 years and we have nothing to show for it .. the offense is embarrassing and almost makes me wish for macadoo-doo back .. almost .. can’t wait for gettleman to go Your boy Simmons has been a complete failure so far so please stop the narrative that O line was a bad pick Thomas at the very least is improving every week and plays a premium position on offense And if you paid attention Gates had a hell of a game...Donald was a non factor Judging a player after 4 games? I thought that was frowned upon? And to be fair, Thomas was awful Sunday against the Rams.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 5, 2020 21:08:49 GMT -5
Your boy Simmons has been a complete failure so far so please stop the narrative that O line was a bad pick Thomas at the very least is improving every week and plays a premium position on offense And if you paid attention Gates had a hell of a game...Donald was a non factor Judging a player after 4 games? I thought that was frowned upon? And to be fair, Thomas was awful Sunday against the Rams. I'm juat shooting down this guy's narrative about wanting to only draft defense this past draft and how Simmons by himself would magically make our defense great again by himself when our defense has improved without a top 10 pick this year Ans Thomas actually improved after his horrible start yesterday..
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Post by GameTime on Oct 5, 2020 21:09:14 GMT -5
Your boy Simmons has been a complete failure so far so please stop the narrative that O line was a bad pick Thomas at the very least is improving every week and plays a premium position on offense And if you paid attention Gates had a hell of a game...Donald was a non factor Judging a player after 4 games? I thought that was frowned upon? And to be fair, Thomas was awful Sunday against the Rams. was he? I saw one or two bad plays but I didnt really focus on him
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Post by GameTime on Oct 5, 2020 21:10:23 GMT -5
This offense is a joke that just lacks talent everywhere .. Jones is not a 6 pick and wasting a 4 pick on Thomas when the rest of the line can’t block is pointless .. we took a LT in 2015 in the first round and he stunk .. we payed Nate solder millions of dollars in free agency to replace him and he sucked .. so now we took Thomas And he’s not looking so great either .. we have been in the position to take legit game changers the last 2 years and we have nothing to show for it .. the offense is embarrassing and almost makes me wish for macadoo-doo back .. almost .. can’t wait for gettleman to go Your boy Simmons has been a complete failure so far so please stop the narrative that O line was a bad pick Thomas at the very least is improving every week and plays a premium position on offense And if you paid attention Gates had a hell of a game...Donald was a non factor Meanwhile the defense has drastically improved without wasting it on a boom or bust high risk you wanted us to take Donald is never a non factor. He always has to be accounted for. That alone makes him effective.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 5, 2020 21:14:34 GMT -5
Judging a player after 4 games? I thought that was frowned upon? And to be fair, Thomas was awful Sunday against the Rams. was he? I saw one or two bad plays but I didnt really focus on him Looked tentative early and seemed a bit slow at the snap early. Also didn't engage with his punch on a pressure esrly Settled down in tbe 2nd half and did his job
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 6, 2020 5:23:43 GMT -5
Judging a player after 4 games? I thought that was frowned upon? And to be fair, Thomas was awful Sunday against the Rams. was he? I saw one or two bad plays but I didnt really focus on him He was terrible. Probably his worst game as a pro. It happens.
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mj312
Special Teams
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Post by mj312 on Oct 6, 2020 14:40:47 GMT -5
This offense is a joke that just lacks talent everywhere .. Jones is not a 6 pick and wasting a 4 pick on Thomas when the rest of the line can’t block is pointless .. we took a LT in 2015 in the first round and he stunk .. we payed Nate solder millions of dollars in free agency to replace him and he sucked .. so now we took Thomas And he’s not looking so great either .. we have been in the position to take legit game changers the last 2 years and we have nothing to show for it .. the offense is embarrassing and almost makes me wish for macadoo-doo back .. almost .. can’t wait for gettleman to go Your boy Simmons has been a complete failure so far so please stop the narrative that O line was a bad pick Thomas at the very least is improving every week and plays a premium position on offense And if you paid attention Gates had a hell of a game...Donald was a non factor Meanwhile the defense has drastically improved without wasting it on a boom or bust high risk you wanted us to take With all of the lineman that your buddy gettleman has whiffed on the last few years I’m not sure you should be calling any other player a boom or bust . I can promise you that Isaiah simmons would have more of an immediate impact on this team than Thomas .. we average about 10 yds a game rushing , jones is the guy who gets the 10yds because he’s running for his life , and our only points have come from field goals .. so just settle down over there
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 6, 2020 14:51:59 GMT -5
Your boy Simmons has been a complete failure so far so please stop the narrative that O line was a bad pick Thomas at the very least is improving every week and plays a premium position on offense And if you paid attention Gates had a hell of a game...Donald was a non factor Meanwhile the defense has drastically improved without wasting it on a boom or bust high risk you wanted us to take With all of the lineman that your buddy gettleman has whiffed on the last few years I’m not sure you should be calling any other player a boom or bust . I can promise you that Isaiah simmons would have more of an immediate impact on this team than Thomas .. we average about 10 yds a game rushing , jones is the guy who gets the 10yds because he’s running for his life , and our only points have come from field goals .. so just settle down over there Lol Your boy was benched already Come back to me when you know what you are talking about
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