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Post by allnygin on Mar 28, 2021 22:28:38 GMT -5
TLDR:
The Giants have always maintained they were a collaborative organization.
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Post by allnygin on Mar 28, 2021 22:29:50 GMT -5
Allow me to clarify what you believe to be "encouraging lurkers."
We have a very modest presence on FB and Twitter and yet we are constantly getting "likes" even though there is very little promotion done for this site. With that said, we continuously get incomplete requests to join the board. The "encouragement" you've seen is simply a reminder to those who want to join to follow the registration instructions.
We have guests (no log in) and more often than not guests out number log ins. IMO: You want to them to see the joke this site is becoming .Keep allowing it to continue. Like I said I think it is funny. If I was a lurker like I was on the old site for years. I would think twice about joining the site because of the content that is being told as fact. We all know it is not. Yet the thread is allowed to keep the BS going, I get the feeling it is taboo to call him on his BS. This site is becoming no different than a flat earth site . l stay because I have a few friends here. Not because the site is anything special. The fact we dropped a few notches as far content compared to the other sites. This used to be the best Giants board on the web. I cannot say that anymore. Not taking anything away from your analysis TEM, however to be fair most forums, youtube channels etc have more lurkers than active participants. It's always been that way. |
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 28, 2021 22:36:48 GMT -5
TLDR: The Giants have always maintained they were a collaborative organization. I would hope so.
Are you suggesting one person doesn't have final say on players?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2021 23:01:13 GMT -5
TLDR: The Giants have always maintained they were a collaborative organization. I would hope so.
Are you suggesting one person doesn't have final say on players?
Exactly. A CEO with majority ownership always listens to his board members.. BUT ... at the end of the day the CEO has the final say. I'm sure DG collabed with Bettcher to bring in all those ex-Cardinals, and he collabed with Shurmer to bring in Kaden Smith from Minnesota. At the same time it's realistic to say Barkley was a DG pick. A good manager knows when to give and take. DG has always worked with our coaches on matters regarding the roster. |
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 28, 2021 23:03:26 GMT -5
I would hope so.
Are you suggesting one person doesn't have final say on players?
Exactly. A CEO with majority ownership always listens to his board members.. BUT ... at the end of the day the CEO has the final say. I'm sure DG collabed with Bettcher to bring in all those ex-Cardinals, and he collabed with Shurmer to bring in Kaden Smith from Minnesota. At the same time it's realistic to say Barkley was a DG pick. DG has always worked with our coaches on matters regarding the roster. Collaboration is essential. After that...Joe gets his guys. |
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Post by McCherry on Mar 28, 2021 23:03:33 GMT -5
Mara didn’t say that at all. He said pretty clearly they work together and aren’t engaged in any power struggles. You are confusing "working together" with shared power. I hope to God everyone in the organization is working together.You can't share power is nay organization. As far as football operations is concerned, only one person has the final say on football decisions.
You seem to be suggesting that since they "work together" Dave must be in charge. Why is that. Isn't just as possible that Joe has the final say?
I'm not saying that at all. Mara's quotes suggest a fairly cooperative effort. I don't get the feeling that Gettleman is dictating terms, but Joe Judge is clearly not having final say either. Mara pretty much says it's a "Giants decision". Maybe that means he has final say? |
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Post by McCherry on Mar 28, 2021 23:08:13 GMT -5
It's not handing off the franchise. It's allowing Joe Judge to run the football operation.
I'm sorry Rosie, but Dave isn't overruling Joe on any player. And I don;'t want to hear about them "working together". Of course they work together. But ultimately, I strongly believe that Joe is getting the players he wants without exception.
Dave had his shot and failed. He's had to sweat out two straight off seasons of possibly being fired. You know that's true. You don't come out of that with the same power you had going in. Pat didn't have the strength of personality, but Joe does. Dave ran this show completely for two years. That time is over. There can only be one decision maker. That has to be Joe at this point.
Sorry but allowing Joe to be the "decision maker" is in fact "handing off the franchise," and there is no way in hell John Mara would ever do that. John won't even allow his GM to hire the head coach.
But nice try. And why would Dave agree to that? It's not like he's in this for money at this point. At 70 years old with 40 years of managing experience you think he’d just let them hand all his executive power to a 38 year-old special teams coach with zero front office experience? He'd tell the Giants to go get f*cked and he’d go enjoy his retirement. |
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Post by jb456 on Mar 28, 2021 23:08:31 GMT -5
We have guests (no log in) and more often than not guests out number log ins. IMO: You want to them to see the joke this site is becoming .Keep allowing it to continue. Like I said I think it is funny. If I was a lurker like I was on the old site for years. I would think twice about joining the site because of the content that is being told as fact. We all know it is not. Yet the thread is allowed to keep the BS going, I get the feeling it is taboo to call him on his BS. This site is becoming no different than a flat earth site . l stay because I have a few friends here. Not because the site is anything special. The fact we dropped a few notches as far content compared to the other sites. This used to be the best Giants board on the web. I cannot say that anymore. The alternative sounds like censorship.  And while the four of us may not agree on a whole lot, we all strongly agree about free speech and the idea that all posters be able to express whatever opinion they wish as long as they do so civilly.  If that's a nincompoop show iyo, so be it.    MS has clearly jumped the shark with this whole DG is a puppet stance. Even though I think he is approaching tin foil hat status, he has clearly stated its his opinion and not a fact. Also, to put this in perspective, there are plenty of nonsense posts on multiple message boards. Just today I read some delusional Cowboy fans post stating that the Cowboys are the best at finding talent in the draft. While there were some posters disagreeing, a bunch were actually agreeing. Talk about delusional homers. At least we aren't dealing with that here.... I'm with you Sarcasman, we shouldn't censor what people have clearly stated as opinion. Is this place going to turn into the ministry of truth? |
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 29, 2021 0:05:34 GMT -5
Sorry but allowing Joe to be the "decision maker" is in fact "handing off the franchise," and there is no way in hell John Mara would ever do that. John won't even allow his GM to hire the head coach.
But nice try. And why would Dave agree to that? It's not like he's in this for money at this point. At 70 years old with 40 years of managing experience you think he’d just let them hand all his executive power to a 38 year-old special teams coach with zero front office experience? He'd tell the Giants to go get f*cked and he’d go enjoy his retirement. Dave doesn't have to agree to it. He doesn't even have to like it. But it is what it is.
Not just with us, but with a great many NFL teams.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2021 2:21:51 GMT -5
Based on this list, which players are you giving credit to Judge & which one's are you giving credit to DG?
"Watch they image start to lessen" - The Weeknd
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Post by TEM on Mar 29, 2021 4:25:47 GMT -5
How about not doubling down on stupid. . For starts. Because people are not as dumb as you think they are . If I am on the outside looking in. I would see the threads you start in particular as moronic .And you are one of the individuals running the site. What does that say about the validity of the content? The other 3 stand by and allow it. You want to ignore facts and push an agenda. Go right ahead. I find your transformation into a clown halrious . You asked. I did not pull any punches in my response. I don't run anything. All I do is try to keep it civil in whatever way I can.
Secondly, many folks agree with me that Joe is the most powerful person in this organization. Just because you may disagree with something, doesn't make it "moronic".
It does become moronic when you claim it is fact. "Many folks agree with me that is opinion." Eliedaman was warned repeatedly and was banned for exactly what you are doing. Don't give me that BS. For someone to claim to be as smart as you do. For have a lot of distain for people you never met. First it was Eli. Now you can't bash him anymore . You needed a new victim to bash. Who is it when Gettleman gone? Who is the next Giant to bash under false pretense. Who is the next Giant you feel is beneath you? |
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Post by TEM on Mar 29, 2021 4:48:44 GMT -5
We have guests (no log in) and more often than not guests out number log ins. IMO: You want to them to see the joke this site is becoming .Keep allowing it to continue. Like I said I think it is funny. If I was a lurker like I was on the old site for years. I would think twice about joining the site because of the content that is being told as fact. We all know it is not. Yet the thread is allowed to keep the BS going, I get the felling it is taboo to call him on his BS. This site is becoming no different than a flat earth site . l stay because I have a few friends here. Not because the site is anything special. The fact we dropped a few notches as far content compared to the other sites. This used to be the best Giants board on the web. I cannot say that anymore.
I don't control the content of this site anymore than you or anyone else that contributes to it. And just to be clear, this is not a paid gig for any of us. I'm thankful to the guys who offered to help out and take it upon themselves to try and make this place a better experience than the old board. Message boards are notoriously difficult, so I appreciate all these guys do.
With that said, moderation is a completely separate matter from our football opinions. None of us profess to know more than any of you, except for Morehead of course ;-) and you've seen the rest of us react to him in that regard.
Despite your displeasure TEM, the interest on TGB has never been greater during an off season. Maybe you shouldn't take MS so seriously?
You do remember why you banned ELIDa Manning. It was his content. He never went after anyone. You threatened to ban him for it Then you did. Because you do not moderate the validity of the content. I can start 20 to 30 BS threads a day . How about these 2 threads for starters. "Why is a Football brown" and "The unsung hero. The white line painter of the field" I should be able create 30 of these types of threads a day without having a problem? With no warning or threats of being banned. Correct? If he can be purposeful in setting an agenda. So I can assume all members can . My agenda will be and I will lay it out on the line. Everything about football and nothing that pertains to to the game, FO, coaches, players. Is that what you want a board full of individuals with an agenda? How about I wait until the season starts to begin my little agenda endeavor? It sound ridiculous doesn't it? |
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Post by TEM on Mar 29, 2021 4:59:13 GMT -5
We have guests (no log in) and more often than not guests out number log ins. IMO: You want to them to see the joke this site is becoming .Keep allowing it to continue. Like I said I think it is funny. If I was a lurker like I was on the old site for years. I would think twice about joining the site because of the content that is being told as fact. We all know it is not. Yet the thread is allowed to keep the BS going, I get the feeling it is taboo to call him on his BS. This site is becoming no different than a flat earth site . l stay because I have a few friends here. Not because the site is anything special. The fact we dropped a few notches as far content compared to the other sites. This used to be the best Giants board on the web. I cannot say that anymore. Not taking anything away from your analysis TEM, however to be fair most forums, youtube channels etc have more lurkers than active participants. It's always been that way. I agree but why prove we are a bunch no nothings by saying the GM is not the GM? |
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Post by 80sdreincarnate on Mar 29, 2021 6:35:35 GMT -5
I like what Judge represents when he speaks. That said he was 6-10 in a weak division and we could not score. Daniel Jones development is vital to his success and he outsourced that piece to Jason Garrett. That's largely going to determine how long he is the coach here. I like what they've done for the most part in FA. I'd have given the Rudolph/Booker/Fulton money to a G personally. We've seen this Oline tank seasons for years on years and I am not at all happy with where the Oline stands at this moment. Still a draft and still some players out there, but I hope they are going to realize more assets need to be given to the wall in front of Jones. We can't keep building it out of straw and sticks. Let's get some bricks. As for players wanting to come here, that's said by FAs that sign just about everywhere. 90% of FAs sign where the $ is the highest. That is why guys came here. We have spent big 2 offseasons in a row, bigger than we spent for either of the 2 previous HCs in any season except McAdoo's year 1. And McAdoo made the playoffs that year.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 29, 2021 7:25:21 GMT -5
I like what Judge represents when he speaks. That said he was 6-10 in a weak division and we could not score. Daniel Jones development is vital to his success and he outsourced that piece to Jason Garrett. That's largely going to determine how long he is the coach here. I like what they've done for the most part in FA. I'd have given the Rudolph/Booker/Fulton money to a G personally. We've seen this Oline tank seasons for years on years and I am not at all happy with where the Oline stands at this moment. Still a draft and still some players out there, but I hope they are going to realize more assets need to be given to the wall in front of Jones. We can't keep building it out of straw and sticks. Let's get some bricks. As for players wanting to come here, that's said by FAs that sign just about everywhere. 90% of FAs sign where the $ is the highest. That is why guys came here. We have spent big 2 offseasons in a row, bigger than we spent for either of the 2 previous HCs in any season except McAdoo's year 1. And McAdoo made the playoffs that year. which guard? Judge has the persona that it seems players, other coaches, GMs and owners like. Hopefully that manifests in wins nd a division title. |
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Post by GameTime on Mar 29, 2021 7:27:00 GMT -5
Exactly. A CEO with majority ownership always listens to his board members.. BUT ... at the end of the day the CEO has the final say. I'm sure DG collabed with Bettcher to bring in all those ex-Cardinals, and he collabed with Shurmer to bring in Kaden Smith from Minnesota. At the same time it's realistic to say Barkley was a DG pick. DG has always worked with our coaches on matters regarding the roster. Collaboration is essential. After that...Joe gets his guys. and I bet most caches do. This is not some unusual situation here. |
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Post by 80sdreincarnate on Mar 29, 2021 7:30:55 GMT -5
I like what Judge represents when he speaks. That said he was 6-10 in a weak division and we could not score. Daniel Jones development is vital to his success and he outsourced that piece to Jason Garrett. That's largely going to determine how long he is the coach here. I like what they've done for the most part in FA. I'd have given the Rudolph/Booker/Fulton money to a G personally. We've seen this Oline tank seasons for years on years and I am not at all happy with where the Oline stands at this moment. Still a draft and still some players out there, but I hope they are going to realize more assets need to be given to the wall in front of Jones. We can't keep building it out of straw and sticks. Let's get some bricks. As for players wanting to come here, that's said by FAs that sign just about everywhere. 90% of FAs sign where the $ is the highest. That is why guys came here. We have spent big 2 offseasons in a row, bigger than we spent for either of the 2 previous HCs in any season except McAdoo's year 1. And McAdoo made the playoffs that year. which guard? Judge has the persona that it seems players, other coaches, GMs and owners like. Hopefully that manifests in wins nd a division title. I’d have signed Trai Turner over Fulton or Gabe Jackson earlier. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2021 7:40:41 GMT -5
which guard? Judge has the persona that it seems players, other coaches, GMs and owners like. Hopefully that manifests in wins nd a division title. I’d have signed Trai Turner over Fulton or Gabe Jackson earlier. They should've tried to keep Zeitler also. |
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Post by GameTime on Mar 29, 2021 7:50:59 GMT -5
I’d have signed Trai Turner over Fulton or Gabe Jackson earlier. They should've tried to keep Zeitler also. maybe they did? Or why do you think they didnt retain him? No good reason? Just curious. |
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 29, 2021 8:12:43 GMT -5
They should've tried to keep Zeitler also. maybe they did? Or why do you think they didnt retain him? No good reason? Just curious. My bet is he wouldn't restructure. Bottom line is they thought he wasn't worth the money he and he wouldn't work with them. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2021 8:17:13 GMT -5
maybe they did? Or why do you think they didnt retain him? No good reason? Just curious. My bet is he wouldn't restructure. Bottom line is they thought he wasn't worth the money he and he wouldn't work with them. That could be the reason he wasn't restructured and do you blame him for wanting to get off this bad team? Never seeing an article about it.. My bet goes towards Getty not wanting to keep him and never gave him a chance to work out the money issue.. |
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 29, 2021 8:28:12 GMT -5
My bet is he wouldn't restructure. Bottom line is they thought he wasn't worth the money he and he wouldn't work with them. That could be the reason he wasn't restructured and do you blame him for wanting to get off this bad team? Never seeing an article about it.. My bet goes towards Getty not wanting to keep him and never gave him a chance to work out the money issue..I dont blame anyone. I think he knew he would get picked up immediately and not have to take a pay hit and the Giants prolly knew the same thing. I do find it a bit silly after what they accomplished in FA that peeps are still complaining about losing Zeitler. He's basically an average to above average NFL OG. |
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Post by Roswell on Mar 29, 2021 8:33:06 GMT -5
I don't understand why this thread has gone so sideways. We can put a nice bow on it if we all just realize there is a faction on this board that allows DG the blame for everything that goes wrong and allows Judge the praise for everything that goes right.
And never the opposite.
It's a flawless argument steeped in unrealistic convenience. And it is as silly as the day is long.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2021 8:49:56 GMT -5
That could be the reason he wasn't restructured and do you blame him for wanting to get off this bad team? Never seeing an article about it.. My bet goes towards Getty not wanting to keep him and never gave him a chance to work out the money issue..I dont blame anyone. I think he knew he would get picked up immediately and not have to take a pay hit and the Giants prolly knew the same thing. I do find it a bit silly after what they accomplished in FA that peeps are still complaining about losing Zeitler. He's basically an average to above average NFL OG.I am one of those who didn't like the oline getting worse during the FA period. They didn't find any of those "average" guards to replace him so I don't understand why fans aren't concerned with the current oline.. |
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 29, 2021 8:52:16 GMT -5
I don't run anything. All I do is try to keep it civil in whatever way I can.
Secondly, many folks agree with me that Joe is the most powerful person in this organization. Just because you may disagree with something, doesn't make it "moronic".
It does become moronic when you claim it is fact. "Many folks agree with me that is opinion." Eliedaman was warned repeatedly and was banned for exactly what you are doing. Don't give me that BS. For someone to claim to be as smart as you do. For have a lot of distain for people you never met. First it was Eli. Now you can't bash him anymore . You needed a new victim to bash. Who is it when Gettleman gone? Who is the next Giant to bash under false pretense. Who is the next Giant you feel is beneath you? I claim it as my strongly held opinion.
And I love Eli Manning and always will. I just understood his limits on the field.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 29, 2021 8:53:24 GMT -5
My bet is he wouldn't restructure. Bottom line is they thought he wasn't worth the money he and he wouldn't work with them. That could be the reason he wasn't restructured and do you blame him for wanting to get off this bad team? Never seeing an article about it.. My bet goes towards Getty not wanting to keep him and never gave him a chance to work out the money issue.. so: - the NYGs should have tried to keep him - but you dont think he wanted to stay on this bad team (yet other FAs want to come here) - but Gettleman never gave him a chance to stay wow.....all over the place much? |
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Post by jb456 on Mar 29, 2021 8:57:45 GMT -5
I don't understand why this thread has gone so sideways. We can put a nice bow on it if we all just realize there is a faction on this board that allows DG the blame for everything that goes wrong and allows Judge the praise for everything that goes right. And never the opposite. It's a flawless argument steeped in unrealistic convenience. And it is as silly as the day is long. It so freaking nuts that I believe that there are two groups. The first group actually believes that nonsense and the second group says they believe it but are trolling. To my point though, MS has clearly stated this as an opinion and takes random needling in many threads due to his stance. Do you think someone who has an unpopular opinion should be warned or banned? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2021 9:00:58 GMT -5
I don't understand why this thread has gone so sideways. We can put a nice bow on it if we all just realize there is a faction on this board that allows DG the blame for everything that goes wrong and allows Judge the praise for everything that goes right. And never the opposite. It's a flawless argument steeped in unrealistic convenience. And it is as silly as the day is long. It so freaking nuts that I believe that there are two groups. The first group actually believes that nonsense and the second group says they believe it but are trolling. To my point though, MS has clearly stated this as an opinion and takes random needling in many threads due to his stance. Do you think someone who has an unpopular opinion should be warned or banned? I think the fan who calls his opinion "moronic" should be banned.. LOL |
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 29, 2021 9:10:04 GMT -5
I dont blame anyone. I think he knew he would get picked up immediately and not have to take a pay hit and the Giants prolly knew the same thing. I do find it a bit silly after what they accomplished in FA that peeps are still complaining about losing Zeitler. He's basically an average to above average NFL OG.I am one of those who didn't like the oline getting worse during the FA period. They didn't find any of those "average" guards to replace him so I don't understand why fans aren't concerned with the current oline.. Where did I say I wasn't concerned about the OL? I've been concerned about it for the past 6 or 7 years. That doesn't mean I want to overpay for a decent OG. Which player have we signed in FA that you would rather not have if we kept Zeitler? |
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 29, 2021 9:13:56 GMT -5
I don't understand why this thread has gone so sideways. We can put a nice bow on it if we all just realize there is a faction on this board that allows DG the blame for everything that goes wrong and allows Judge the praise for everything that goes right. And never the opposite. It's a flawless argument steeped in unrealistic convenience. And it is as silly as the day is long. It so freaking nuts that I believe that there are two groups. The first group actually believes that nonsense and the second group says they believe it but are trolling. To my point though, MS has clearly stated this as an opinion and takes random needling in many threads due to his stance. Do you think someone who has an unpopular opinion should be warned or banned? No. But he does what he always does, even starting a totally new thread about it when he just argued the exact same point in 20 pages of another thread. I'm not saying he is a troll, but he loves the attention he gets. |
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