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Post by DandyDon on May 2, 2021 19:28:34 GMT -5
That's on the coaches now. They signed off on the QB, the OL, the free agents, everything. Can't use the lack of talent excuse anymore. Nonsense. He’s gone if we don’t have a winning season. No participation trophies here. A GM with a losing record over multiple seasons does not get saved by pointing out that the coach agreed with him. Even here? Not sure if they go 8-9 losing some close games that he's not extended. If they go 1 and something by Thanksgiving, he probably done. The best thing about him from a PR perspective is you can always do an age/health excuse for letting him go.
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Post by DandyDon on May 2, 2021 19:34:21 GMT -5
Everyone will be judged on the team's record not draft grades. For the coaches, I agree, but Gettleman has given Judge the tools to win. With the exception of the ol, I'd agree.
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Post by IrishMike on May 2, 2021 19:39:41 GMT -5
I think Getty is retiring after this season, period. If not this year it'll be very soon. If we win the SB this year I could see him hanging them up.
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Post by IrishMike on May 2, 2021 19:41:18 GMT -5
So Gettlleman has no responsibility for those losses? lol ... ok Depending on who you ask he either has 100% responsibility or 0%.
None of it really matters though. Win week 1...let's go from there.
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Post by Morehead State on May 2, 2021 19:48:50 GMT -5
I can prove...with mathematical certainty, that the Giants have been 15-33 over the tenure of Dave Gettleman as our GM.
Do you claim otherwise?
Of course I claim otherwise, as has many more on this board who have pointed out to you that DG inherited a dog and pony show, that included one last hurrah by Mara for Eli. This, "we can still win" pipe dream, lost us a year of rebuilding. But of course you find it convenient to rigidly ignore that. I say our record has been 15-33 and you say....... "Of course I claim otherwise".
I would love to see this argument.
Please. You have the floor.
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Post by GameTime on May 2, 2021 19:53:44 GMT -5
Of course I claim otherwise, as has many more on this board who have pointed out to you that DG inherited a dog and pony show, that included one last hurrah by Mara for Eli. This, "we can still win" pipe dream, lost us a year of rebuilding. But of course you find it convenient to rigidly ignore that. I say our record has been 15-33 and you say....... "Of course I claim otherwise".
I would love to see this argument.
Please. You have the floor.
Joe needs his yes man so DG gets to stay. I mean Judge thinks the OL is good enough so I guess DG is doing his job.
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Post by TCHOF on May 2, 2021 20:00:29 GMT -5
So Gettlleman has no responsibility for those losses? lol ... ok Someone in the Giants organization clearly didn't think he had as much responsibility for the record as the coach. You used the word “entirely”, which means that Gettleman bears no responsibility at all... not that he didn’t have as much responsibility
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Post by TCHOF on May 2, 2021 20:08:25 GMT -5
Nonsense. He’s gone if we don’t have a winning season. No participation trophies here. A GM with a losing record over multiple seasons does not get saved by pointing out that the coach agreed with him. Even here? Not sure if they go 8-9 losing some close games that he's not extended. If they go 1 and something by Thanksgiving, he probably done. The best thing about him from a PR perspective is you can always do an age/health excuse for letting him go. Yeah, I think he has to at least have a winning record or he’s a goner. I mean is it possible that they make the playoffs at 8-9 and win a playoff game or 2 and Gettleman stays? I suppose so ... but absent such a scenario I think that if we don’t have a winning record, Gettleman is gone. That being said, I think that we will have a winning record and that Gettleman will stay (if he wants to)
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te88
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Post by te88 on May 2, 2021 20:54:08 GMT -5
Gettleman seems to be on his way out. All the signs are there. And he has been part of setting it up. O’Brien, increased involvement of Abrams, plus of course the Joe Judge gravitas. Gettleman has never been “smaller” in the org as a GM than now. It suits this franchise better to be honest, they have so many cooks in the kitchen it’s best of the GM is more of a CEO type the way Ernie was than some whiz talent guy (Reese). You need somebody to oversee all the big personalities going on in this organization and help them to work together. You don’t need another guy in the weeds. Gettleman is doing much better this way.
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Post by Roswell on May 2, 2021 20:55:51 GMT -5
Nobody cares about Pat Shurmer's record anymore... It's Joe Judge's QB, it's his offensive line, receivers and defense. There’s no more crying "Dave" if they can't figure out how to put the ball in the end zone with Golloday, Toney, Barkley, Rudolph etc. We all love Joe so far, but you'll see how fast that love affair ends after a 1-3 start. Yet you're the one who brought it up a few posts ago. No one else did.
Jeez Mike.
That said, Dave's performance is set. He's been a failure. Now we spent a fortune on free agents in order to fix what Dave has broken. But I agree with you. Assuming a bunch of top guys not suffering huge injuries, we MUST win in 2021.
I expect 11 wins minimum.
He might not have fixed what Reese broke in a timeframe suitable to you, but he hasn’t broken anything. He inherited a complete and utter mess, made some mistakes Year 1, and has been nothing but gold over the last two years.
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Post by Morehead State on May 2, 2021 21:03:10 GMT -5
Yet you're the one who brought it up a few posts ago. No one else did.
Jeez Mike.
That said, Dave's performance is set. He's been a failure. Now we spent a fortune on free agents in order to fix what Dave has broken. But I agree with you. Assuming a bunch of top guys not suffering huge injuries, we MUST win in 2021.
I expect 11 wins minimum.
He might not have fixed what Reese broke in a timeframe suitable to you, but he hasn’t broken anything. He inherited a complete and utter mess, made some mistakes Year 1, and has been nothing but gold over the last two years. Every GM, who replaced a fired GM, by definition, inherits a mess.
The Browns were a mess after 2017. They were 1-31 in the previous two seasons. They are a playoff team and a legit contender. Miami, a year later was accused of tanking on purpose. They were 11-5 last year. The Cards were 3-13 in 2017 and cleaned our clock in our building last year.
How is it that OUR situation was somehow worse than any of these teams?
I'll give you a hint. It wasn't. What happened was a horrific miscalculation by Dave regarding our team in 2017. He thought Eli was still a championship QB. He wasn't. That miscalculation, and the decisions that came as a product, set our rebuild back by year or more.
I'm so sick of hearing that Dave had is worse than other losing teams with new GM's. It's simply not true.
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Post by Roswell on May 2, 2021 21:05:17 GMT -5
He might not have fixed what Reese broke in a timeframe suitable to you, but he hasn’t broken anything. He inherited a complete and utter mess, made some mistakes Year 1, and has been nothing but gold over the last two years. Every GM, who replaced a fired GM, by definition, inherits a mess.
The Browns were a mess after 2017. They were 1-31 in the previous two seasons. They are a playoff team and a legit contender. Miami, a year later was accused of tanking on purpose. They were 11-5 last year. The Cards were 3-13 in 2017 and cleaned our clock in our building last year.
How is it that OUR situation was somehow worse than any of these teams?
I'll give you a hint. It wasn't. What happened was a horrific miscalculation by Dave regarding our team in 2017. He thought Eli was still a championship QB. He wasn't. That miscalculation, and the decisions that came as a product, set our rebuild back by year or more.
I'm so sick of hearing that Dave had is worse than other losing teams with new GM's. It's simply not true.
So....what did he break? What did he make worse?
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Post by McCherry on May 2, 2021 21:05:28 GMT -5
Someone in the Giants organization clearly didn't think he had as much responsibility for the record as the coach. You used the word “entirely”, which means that Gettleman bears no responsibility at all... not that he didn’t have as much responsibility That's fair, he deserves some blame too. But applying the overall record from his tenure on the GM is just completely out of context. Shurmur and Judge bear the burden for their records. Both coaches lost games they should’ve won. When teams make critical penalties or call the wrong defenses in the final minutes it's not the GM's fault. The organization recognized this, and it clearly looks like the right decision over the last 2 years.
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Post by Roswell on May 2, 2021 21:07:17 GMT -5
Plenty of blame to go around. DG included. But it’s not all on him. That’s just ridiculous.
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Post by Morehead State on May 2, 2021 21:20:29 GMT -5
Every GM, who replaced a fired GM, by definition, inherits a mess.
The Browns were a mess after 2017. They were 1-31 in the previous two seasons. They are a playoff team and a legit contender. Miami, a year later was accused of tanking on purpose. They were 11-5 last year. The Cards were 3-13 in 2017 and cleaned our clock in our building last year.
How is it that OUR situation was somehow worse than any of these teams?
I'll give you a hint. It wasn't. What happened was a horrific miscalculation by Dave regarding our team in 2017. He thought Eli was still a championship QB. He wasn't. That miscalculation, and the decisions that came as a product, set our rebuild back by year or more.
I'm so sick of hearing that Dave had is worse than other losing teams with new GM's. It's simply not true.
So....what did he break? What did he make worse? Let's see.....blowing the biggest piece of draft capital in team history on a RB.
Reaching for a QB in 2019.
Keeping Eli one more season costing us $20MM in cap space. Trading picks for a washed up MLB from the Rams. Blowing $3mm on a washed up RB from Carolina. Trading up into RD 1 for a questionable CB in 2019...who's no longer on the team.
Making Nate Solder the highest paid O lineman in NFL history, wasting precious cap space.
Pounding his chest about "hog mollies" then drafting one O lineman in his first two drafts.
Overall doing a poor job of building a team in today's NFL. Living in the past and making decisions accordingly. Going 15-33 in 3 seasons with high picks every season.
This is a dreadful record by any standard.
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Post by IrishMike on May 2, 2021 21:20:55 GMT -5
I'll give you a hint. It wasn't. What happened was a horrific miscalculation by Dave regarding our team in 2017. He thought Eli was still a championship QB. He wasn't. That miscalculation, and the decisions that came as a product, set our rebuild back by year or more.
I'm so sick of hearing that Dave had is worse than other losing teams with new GM's. It's simply not true.
Yeah too bad Dave didn't realize Eli was done and draft Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold. Rosen was on 4 teams in 3 NFL seasons lmao. Here is your post if we made that move.
"He thought Josh Rosen would be a Championship QB. He wasn't. That miscalculation and the decisions that came as a product set our rebuild back by a year or more".
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Post by Morehead State on May 2, 2021 21:23:57 GMT -5
I'll give you a hint. It wasn't. What happened was a horrific miscalculation by Dave regarding our team in 2017. He thought Eli was still a championship QB. He wasn't. That miscalculation, and the decisions that came as a product, set our rebuild back by year or more.
I'm so sick of hearing that Dave had is worse than other losing teams with new GM's. It's simply not true.
Yeah too bad Dave didn't realize Eli was done and draft Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold. Rosen was on 4 teams in 3 NFL seasons lmao. Here is your post if we made that move.
"He thought Josh Rosen would be a Championship QB. He wasn't. That miscalculation and the decisions that came as a product set our rebuild back by a year or more".
Or Josh Allen. Or trading back for a crap load of picks that could have helped build a great team by now.
Quite honestly, I think Dave has a good eye for talent. But you may be right, looking at his record, he probably would have screwed up that pick if he didn't draft Saquan.
But quite honestly, I don't care if Dave is here or not. This team is being built in Joe Judge's image.
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Post by IrishMike on May 2, 2021 21:27:51 GMT -5
Or Josh Allen. Or trading back for a crap load of picks that could have helped build a great team by now. Quite honestly, I think Dave has a good eye for talent. But you may be right, looking at his record, he probably would have screwed up that pick if he didn't draft Saquan.
Nope. You don't get to play the hindsight game. You would not have taken Josh Allen. Here is YOUR quote. If Morehead was GM we would have taken Josh "4 team" Rosen as the QB and would be worse off than we are now. Well the guy I wanted was gone at #1 so....... But I still would have drafted Josh Rosen at #2.
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Post by IrishMike on May 2, 2021 21:29:55 GMT -5
This team is being built in Joe Judge's image. If these teams are built in Judges image and that means he gets credit then the other team was built in Shurmurs image and he gets the blame. DG is the builder, the coach orders the specs though.
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Post by Morehead State on May 2, 2021 21:33:37 GMT -5
Or Josh Allen. Or trading back for a crap load of picks that could have helped build a great team by now. Quite honestly, I think Dave has a good eye for talent. But you may be right, looking at his record, he probably would have screwed up that pick if he didn't draft Saquan.
Nope. You don't get to play the hindsight game. You would not have taken Josh Allen. Here is YOUR quote. If Morehead was GM we would have taken Josh "4 team" Rosen as the QB and would be worse off than we are now. Well the guy I wanted was gone at #1 so....... But I still would have drafted Josh Rosen at #2. I saw Josh Rosen play a half a game for UCLA. I saw Darnold play half that same game for USC. I never saw Josh Allen play a down. I saw Mayfield play two games total for Oklahoma. I never saw Jackson play a single down at Louisville.
I'm going to assume Dave saw all those guys play.
The only thing I know about college football these days is when Michigan State is on TV.
But I am flattered that you searched for this. It makes me feel important.
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Post by Morehead State on May 2, 2021 21:34:17 GMT -5
This team is being built in Joe Judge's image. If these teams are built in Judges image and that means he gets credit then the other team was built in Shurmurs image and he gets the blame. DG is the builder, the coach orders the specs though. If these players flop then Joe gets the blame from me. Can't speak for anyone else.
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Post by Jomo on May 2, 2021 21:36:09 GMT -5
Yet you're the one who brought it up a few posts ago. No one else did.
Jeez Mike.
That said, Dave's performance is set. He's been a failure. Now we spent a fortune on free agents in order to fix what Dave has broken. But I agree with you. Assuming a bunch of top guys not suffering huge injuries, we MUST win in 2021.
I expect 11 wins minimum.
He might not have fixed what Reese broke in a timeframe suitable to you, but he hasn’t broken anything. He inherited a complete and utter mess, made some mistakes Year 1, and has been nothing but gold over the last two years. Yes, give or take. Please look at the O and the D 3 years in and tell me we've moved back with this roster.
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Post by IrishMike on May 2, 2021 21:37:57 GMT -5
Nope. You don't get to play the hindsight game. You would not have taken Josh Allen. Here is YOUR quote. If Morehead was GM we would have taken Josh "4 team" Rosen as the QB and would be worse off than we are now. I saw Josh Rosen play a half a game for UCLA. I saw Darnold play half that same game for USC. I never saw Josh Allen play a down. I saw Mayfield play two games total for Oklahoma. I never saw Jackson play a single down at Louisville.
I'm going to assume Dave saw all those guys play.
The only thing I know about college football these days is when Michigan State is on TV.
But I am flattered that you searched for this. It makes me feel important.
You spent longer writing your response than I spent searching for that quote. The search option on this board works pretty well actually. We should all be flattered that there are fans of this team that spend as much time as we do talking about this BS.
Nice pivot btw. The point remains the same. His miscalculation of Eli didn't set this franchise back at all. It actually saved us from making a horrible mistake and taking Josh Rosen. I will assume Dave saw all those guys play too and that is why he chose not to draft them. Jackson was my guy, but wanted him round 2.
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Post by IrishMike on May 2, 2021 21:39:48 GMT -5
If these teams are built in Judges image and that means he gets credit then the other team was built in Shurmurs image and he gets the blame. DG is the builder, the coach orders the specs though. If these players flop then Joe gets the blame from me. Can't speak for anyone else. So why does DG get the blame not Shurmur if you will blame Judge?
Bottom line is it is a team effort. The owners could decide to can the GM or the HC or both. It is all of their responsibility to make this franchise successful. Let's hope the combo of Judge/DG works for us, regardless of who's dick is bigger.
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Post by thetruth on May 2, 2021 22:09:25 GMT -5
This. Abrams will probably be the next man up. he seems like he s just a money guy. He.s been with the org a a very long time Not sure if ever wanted the GM or interviewed for it. I dont see him being the GM ever. They give the numbers and he crunches them. Gettlman even said that Abrams does all the negotiating. Apparently he's the one that negotiated the trade with the Bears as per Gettlemens pressor I think he's smarter than he looks/talks
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Post by Morehead State on May 2, 2021 23:35:36 GMT -5
I saw Josh Rosen play a half a game for UCLA. I saw Darnold play half that same game for USC. I never saw Josh Allen play a down. I saw Mayfield play two games total for Oklahoma. I never saw Jackson play a single down at Louisville.
I'm going to assume Dave saw all those guys play.
The only thing I know about college football these days is when Michigan State is on TV.
But I am flattered that you searched for this. It makes me feel important.
You spent longer writing your response than I spent searching for that quote. The search option on this board works pretty well actually. We should all be flattered that there are fans of this team that spend as much time as we do talking about this BS.
Nice pivot btw. The point remains the same. His miscalculation of Eli didn't set this franchise back at all. It actually saved us from making a horrible mistake and taking Josh Rosen. I will assume Dave saw all those guys play too and that is why he chose not to draft them. Jackson was my guy, but wanted him round 2.
Again....15-33 suggests you're wrong.
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Post by lexington11 on May 3, 2021 4:22:29 GMT -5
I get that feeling too. But he’s earned the right to leave when and how he wants. He's handed the coaches all the talent you could ask for. If they can't win with this roster they need to find a new line of work. He has earned nothing. You earn things around here with wins. getty doesn’t coach the team if you weren’t aware of that. He has done his job like it or not.
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Post by lexington11 on May 3, 2021 4:25:09 GMT -5
You spent longer writing your response than I spent searching for that quote. The search option on this board works pretty well actually. We should all be flattered that there are fans of this team that spend as much time as we do talking about this BS.
Nice pivot btw. The point remains the same. His miscalculation of Eli didn't set this franchise back at all. It actually saved us from making a horrible mistake and taking Josh Rosen. I will assume Dave saw all those guys play too and that is why he chose not to draft them. Jackson was my guy, but wanted him round 2.
Again....15-33 suggests you're wrong. he was handed pretty much nothing, it does take time to rebuild a roster, but let’s not consider that all, right?
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Post by TCHOF on May 3, 2021 4:25:20 GMT -5
You used the word “entirely”, which means that Gettleman bears no responsibility at all... not that he didn’t have as much responsibility That's fair, he deserves some blame too. But applying the overall record from his tenure on the GM is just completely out of context. Shurmur and Judge bear the burden for their records. Both coaches lost games they should’ve won. When teams make critical penalties or call the wrong defenses in the final minutes it's not the GM's fault. The organization recognized this, and it clearly looks like the right decision over the last 2 years. I’m not saying that coaching isn’t to blame as well.
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Post by GameTime on May 3, 2021 4:37:19 GMT -5
he seems like he s just a money guy. He.s been with the org a a very long time Not sure if ever wanted the GM or interviewed for it. I dont see him being the GM ever. They give the numbers and he crunches them. Gettlman even said that Abrams does all the negotiating. Apparently he's the one that negotiated the trade with the Bears as per Gettlemens pressor I think he's smarter than he looks/talks not saying he isnt smart at all. Just thinking maybe not suited to be a GM. Just a guess on my part
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